Wolverine and Captain America

Wolverine "without the adamantium skeleton" is practically equal to Captain America .. Both have strength (both can lift 800lbs), endurance, agility, speed, reflexes, durability superhuman and healing factor.. Strengthened immune system and retarded aging (longevity)

Ignoring the adamantium skeleton of Wolverine, and the adamantium shield of Captain, both have almost the same capabilities .. Considering that both are about the same level, both could be considered superhumans or human peak? or maybe mutants?

wolverine isnt peak human without his adamantium...just a crazy healing factor

they are equal in fighting

@luckydomino1 said:

they are equal in fighting

They are equals in fighting, I agree, however Wolverine's healing factor would give him the edge, post fight, IMO.

Wolverine is a better fighter than Cap. And Cap isn't a mutant and Wolverine is idk at this point a lupine/mutant thing. Steve has been called super human in some instances and some feats put him at low level super strength, same as Wolverine.

@god_spawn said:

Wolverine is a better fighter than Cap. And Cap isn't a mutant and Wolverine is idk at this point a lupine/mutant thing. Steve has been called super human in some instances and some feats put him at low level super strength, same as Wolverine.

Wolverine is idk at this point a lupine/mutant thing? ............do not understand, please explain it better ..

@218Comics said:

@luckydomino1 said:

they are equal in fighting

They are equals in fighting, I agree, however Wolverine's healing factor would give him the edge, post fight, IMO.

Captain America also has the healing factor

@serum said:

@218Comics said:

@luckydomino1 said:

they are equal in fighting

They are equals in fighting, I agree, however Wolverine's healing factor would give him the edge, post fight, IMO.

Captain America also has the healing factor

They have two very different healing factors. It is said that Captain America has the best healing factor a human could have, whereas Wolverine has a top mutant healing factor, taking place almost immediately and, more importantly, during battle.

@218Comics said:

@serum said:

@218Comics said:

@luckydomino1 said:

they are equal in fighting

They are equals in fighting, I agree, however Wolverine's healing factor would give him the edge, post fight, IMO.

Captain America also has the healing factor

They have two very different healing factors. It is said that Captain America has the best healing factor a human could have, whereas Wolverine has a top mutant healing factor, taking place almost immediately and, more importantly, during battle.

but, Captain America is light years away from a human .. No human can be not even close to the level of Captain America .. and Captain America and Deadpool are at a distance almost equal as Wolverine and Sabretooth .. Captain America and Deadpool are 90% mutants and 10% human, or something

Cap vs Wolverine in a fight is one of those that could just go either way. In my opinion, Wolverine has more of a variety in terms of combat knowledge, however, when you're as good as Steve, it could go either way. With adamantium, Wolverine wins.

@serum: He was a mutant then in his origin or something got changed to a lupine or something like that . I don't rightly know myself.

Logan has a greater wealth of combat experience and variety of different styles due to his age, but the deciding factor is most likely Logans n'th-level healing factor...since I don't remember Steve being cited as being able to regrow entire body parts.

@serum said:

@218Comics said:

@serum said:

@218Comics said:

@luckydomino1 said:

they are equal in fighting

They are equals in fighting, I agree, however Wolverine's healing factor would give him the edge, post fight, IMO.

Captain America also has the healing factor

They have two very different healing factors. It is said that Captain America has the best healing factor a human could have, whereas Wolverine has a top mutant healing factor, taking place almost immediately and, more importantly, during battle.

but, Captain America is light years away from a human .. No human can be not even close to the level of Captain America .. and Captain America and Deadpool are at a distance almost equal as Wolverine and Sabretooth .. Captain America and Deadpool are 90% mutants and 10% human, or something

I did not say Cap was a human, he's a super human, not a mutant. But, his healing power is specifically stated as "the top of human healing"... not super soldier/super human or mutant.

@218Comics said:

@serum said:

@218Comics said:

@serum said:

@218Comics said:

@luckydomino1 said:

they are equal in fighting

They are equals in fighting, I agree, however Wolverine's healing factor would give him the edge, post fight, IMO.

Captain America also has the healing factor

They have two very different healing factors. It is said that Captain America has the best healing factor a human could have, whereas Wolverine has a top mutant healing factor, taking place almost immediately and, more importantly, during battle.

but, Captain America is light years away from a human .. No human can be not even close to the level of Captain America .. and Captain America and Deadpool are at a distance almost equal as Wolverine and Sabretooth .. Captain America and Deadpool are 90% mutants and 10% human, or something

I did not say Cap was a human, he's a super human, not a mutant. But, his healing power is specifically stated as "the top of human healing"... not super soldier/super human or mutant.

The problem is that apparently the concept of Mutant and Superhuman, we can put it in the same bag.. A mutant is higher than an ordinary human .. A Superhuman is above an ordinary human.. Superhuman and mutant are above an ordinary human.. So what's the difference between mutant and Superhuman? ..apparently the concept of Mutant and Superhuman, we can put it in the same bag, or not? (both are above a human)

@protect_yourself said:

@serum: isnt wolverine superhuman? I mean hes made of adamantium aromor. I dont know if hes really as indestructable as some people make him to be.

Captain America and Deathstroke could be considered "mutant", in the experiment to overcome ordinary human capabilities had to have a genetic change or some form to boost metabolism.. through the experiment have had a mutation, change or alteration genetic to overcome ordinary human capabilities.. or not??

@protect_yourself said:

@serum: yeah that makes sense,but isnt wolverine considered superhuman rather than a mutant seeing he has indestrouctable armor?

I never said that Wolverine is superhuman .. What I want to say is that we can Superhuman and Mutants put in the same bag .. In this case, Superhuman could be considered Mutant, but not vice versa

@protect_yourself said:

@serum: Ok now i;m seeing what you're saying. about superhumans and mutants being equal in ways which i see where you're coming from. in a way i do see them the same.

Exactly .. Captain America, Deathstroke, Deadpool, Silver Fox, etc. .. They were all born as human beings, but through the experiment to overcome ordinary human capacity were changing their metabolism and increasing its cells, strengthening the immune system (they can live longer than the normal person), agility, durability, speed, strength, healing factor, all the enhanced capabilities beyond a normal human .. it definitely is a mutant, is a process of mutation, or change cell

Deathstroke and Cap aren't considered mutants by Marvel terms, if they lack the Homo Superior gene then they aren't a mutant. And all because a mutant has the gene doesn't mean they have the superhuman strength. Cyclops has powerful optic blasts but he doesn't haven't super human strength. Wolverine does have super human strength. Superhuman is a general term, mutant is a specific term. A mutant can have regular human strength, a mutant's power could be super human strength because it is a general term, they don't call it super mutant strength because all mutants don't have super strength. In DC terms if a person has powers, by basic standards they would be called meta humans.

@god_spawn said:

Deathstroke and Cap aren't considered mutants by Marvel terms, if they lack the Homo Superior gene then they aren't a mutant. And all because a mutant has the gene doesn't mean they have the superhuman strength. Cyclops has powerful optic blasts but he doesn't haven't super human strength. Wolverine does have super human strength. Superhuman is a general term, mutant is a specific term. A mutant can have regular human strength, a mutant's power could be super human strength because it is a general term, they don't call it super mutant strength because all mutants don't have super strength. In DC terms if a person has powers, by basic standards they would be called meta humans.

Not all mutants are completely natural, ie birth .. Maverick, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Silver Fox, before the experiment (Weapon X), they were normal people without powers and without the mutant gene .. After the experiment were mutants..

@serum: No all mutants are natural at birth. I don't know where you find the info they aren't mutants. it even says it on their character pages. Both Sabretooth and Omega Red were both born with their powers, at least their natural ones, they both have natural healing factors, but Sabretooth has his catlike powers as well. The Weapon X experiments only added on their powers. Silver Fox isn't a mutant since she acquired her powers so you're right on that. People who acquire powers through outside sources are called mutates, such as Spider-Man, Cloak, Dagger etc.

@god_spawn said:

@serum: No all mutants are natural at birth. I don't know where you find the info they aren't mutants. it even says it on their character pages. Both Sabretooth and Omega Red were both born with their powers, at least their natural ones, they both have natural healing factors, but Sabretooth has his catlike powers as well. The Weapon X experiments only added on their powers. Silver Fox isn't a mutant since she acquired her powers so you're right on that. People who acquire powers through outside sources are called mutates, such as Spider-Man, Cloak, Dagger etc.

Mr.Sinister through a genetic experiment got his mutant powers, Mr.Sinister previously was a normal human (scientific, like mr.freeze)

Silver Fox, Maverick and Deadpool got his powers through the experiment (weapon x) as Captain America (Weapon I)

Spiderman was bitten by radioactive spider, means that before he was a normal human, means that it is a mutant and not by birth

Bane, Poison Ivy Mr.Freeze and obtained their powers through an experiment, means that they are mutants and not by birth

As you can see.. not all mutants are completely natural (birth) .. many mutants were initially human.. and through experiments are mutant

Silver Fox, Maverick, Captain America, Deadpool, Spiderman, Mr.Freeze, Bane, Poison Ivy, Mr.Sinister, it appears that they all could be considered mutants, or not?

@serum: All those people are mutates not mutants as I said in my previous posts. If you are born with a power, you are a mutant, if you acquire it through an outside means you are a mutate. And Bane is a normal human, he just gets a temporary power boost to become super human so he is neither.

@god_spawn said:

@serum: All those people are mutates not mutants as I said in my previous posts. If you are born with a power, you are a mutant, if you acquire it through an outside means you are a mutate. And Bane is a normal human, he just gets a temporary power boost to become super human so he is neither.

Mr.Sinister are mutate, and he is considered mutant.. then Mr.Sinister is the exception or what? ...

other detail more:

The scientist who created the super soldier serum at first the effect of serum was for a limited time period and later the scientist perfecting the formula for achieving the effect of serum is permanent .. Supposing that the Captain America was dependent on serum, and had to ingest it continuously, in this case would be considered superhuman Captain or not?

@serum: No Sinister should be considered a mutate then if he was not born with his powers. it's as simple as that. If he had powers prior to becoming Mr. Sinister in anyway shape or form, then he is a mutant.

If Cap had to continuously ingest his formula, he would be a normal human until he ingested the formula. It would be like Bane, Bane is a human off venom but venom enhances him into a superhuman.

@god_spawn said:

@serum: No Sinister should be considered a mutate then if he was not born with his powers. it's as simple as that. If he had powers prior to becoming Mr. Sinister in anyway shape or form, then he is a mutant.

If Cap had to continuously ingest his formula, he would be a normal human until he ingested the formula. It would be like Bane, Bane is a human off venom but venom enhances him into a superhuman.

Then it means that Captain America, Deathstroke, Maverick, Silver Fox, all of them could be considered mutates (like Mr.Sinister, Mr.Freeze, Poison Ivy, Spiderman)

In the case of Juggernaut, could be considered mutant, mutate, human or superhuman? ...in the case of the Penguin, he was born deformed, the dwarf is a short, stooped and obese, the hands are misshapen, with four fingers attached by way of fins, a hooked nose like the beak of a penguin, and pale colour of his face ... The Penguin could be considered a mutant? .. apparently the penguin is a ordinary mutant, dont have powers

@serum: They could very well be called that or they could be enhanced, super human or meta-humans whatever you like.

Juggernaut is not a mutant but an avatar. No in Marvel terms Penguin is not a mutant, he is just deformed.

@god_spawn said:

@serum: They could very well be called that or they could be enhanced, super human or meta-humans whatever you like.

Juggernaut is not a mutant but an avatar. No in Marvel terms Penguin is not a mutant, he is just deformed.

You say that if Captain America had to continually ingest the serum would be like Bane .. But the case of bane is very different, Venom is a drug, and drugs have a temporary effect, for that reason the tube Bane needs to receive the drug all the time ..

In the event that the Captain America had to continually ingest the serum would be different to the case of Bane, the serum is not a drug (venom), the effect of the serum is highly durable if ingested over long periods of time (for years), the effect of the drug is lost immediately (and addictive)

Bane venom ingesting the drug needs to get super strength, but the drug effect is lost and creates dependency (that is always characteristic of drugs), the effect of the drug can be lost in few hours and returns to being a normal human

The serum supposedly the beginning was to be ingested continuously, but the effect of serum provides superhuman ability and the effect is not fleeting as the drug if ingested over long periods of time (for years)

if the serum is taken for years and there is a change an improvement in the body, and return to being a weak man would have to go long without ingested (for years), the serum is not a drug, the effect of serum can be very durable if ingested over long periods of time (for years)..

For this reason if Captain America will need to continually ingest the serum, also must be superhuman, because to stop the effect superhuman would have to be to stop ingested the serum for a long time (for years)

and other detail more:

Juggernaut is an Avatar? What is an avatar? .. I have no idea what that is ..

@serum: Venom being a drug and the SS formula makes no difference in my point at all.

He gets his power from the entity Cyttorak and thus becomes a living symbol of Cyttorak's power.

@god_spawn said:

@serum: Venom being a drug and the SS formula makes no difference in my point at all.

He gets his power from the entity Cyttorak and thus becomes a living symbol of Cyttorak's power.

The drug of bane can stop the aging process and provide longevity? (lived 500 years) .. The Captain America aging slowly, due to the serum, and I doubt Bane with venom drug can do the same .. Means that the drug and serum venom can not equal

The charm of Cyttorak, I knew from long ago.. but.. I do not understand that it is an avatar? .. Juggernaut can be considered a mutate, mutant, human or superhuman?

@protect_yourself: It's called Venom.

@serum:

Ok last response cause I've just been repeating myself. It doesn't matter what the drug does or what a formula does, those guys are normal humans in your hypothetical situation. They both have a serum, formula, drug, injection whatever it doesn't matter cause without it they are not super human, peak human whatever. Captain America without the serum is a normal weakling, Bane without venom is a human with no powers. On their respective substances they are peak/super human.

He is an avatar, not a mutant, not a mutate, he is more a superhuman avatar and is a living projection of Cyttorak's powers.

@protect_yourself: Venom is the name of the drug that Bane uses in DC, I was just answering your question. I'm not talking about the Marvel symbiote

@protect_yourself: No worries.

@god_spawn said:

@protect_yourself: It's called Venom.

@serum:

Ok last response cause I've just been repeating myself. It doesn't matter what the drug does or what a formula does, those guys are normal humans in your hypothetical situation. They both have a serum, formula, drug, injection whatever it doesn't matter cause without it they are not super human, peak human whatever. Captain America without the serum is a normal weakling, Bane without venom is a human with no powers. On their respective substances they are peak/super human.

He is an avatar, not a mutant, not a mutate, he is more a superhuman avatar and is a living projection of Cyttorak's powers.

Juggernaut could be considered like Bane (human) .. Juggernaut without the amulet is a normal human, Bane also without the drug is a normal human .. Then Juggernaut should be considered as human, like Bane

@god_spawn said:

All those people are mutates not mutants as I said in my previous posts. If you are born with a power, you are a mutant, if you acquire it through an outside means you are a mutate.

I think you're wrong in what you say of Mutate and Mutants .. Ninja Turtles are mutate according to history, but officially are considered mutants

The story unfolds from a martial arts master is become a rat because of radioactive waste. His name is Splinter and later adopted a turtle, thanks to the radioactivity taken humanoid form, and thus become Ninja Turtles

are officially considered .. "TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES"

also Mr.Freeze and Mr.Sinister can be considered mutants .. also Red Skull and Captain America can be considered mutants.. that they are all the result of a mutation like the ninja turtles

@serum: Then each company has their own terms. DC has meta-humans , super humans and aliens, , Marvel calls people with homo superior genes mutants like the X-men, they have homo superior gene in them and it's a Marvel thing it doesn't mean it affects DC in the slightest. All because Mirage calls the turtles mutants they won't be called mutants in Marvel based on Marvel's definition of a mutant. People who acquire mutant like powers not by birth in Marvel are mutates like Spider-Man, Cloak and Dagger etc. It comes down to company terminology.

To simplify it, it comes down to company terminology.

@god_spawn said:

@serum: Then each company has their own terms. DC has meta-humans , super humans and aliens, , Marvel calls people with homo superior genes mutants like the X-men, they have homo superior gene in them and it's a Marvel thing it doesn't mean it affects DC in the slightest. All because Mirage calls the turtles mutants they won't be called mutants in Marvel based on Marvel's definition of a mutant. People who acquire mutant like powers not by birth in Marvel are mutates like Spider-Man, Cloak and Dagger etc. It comes down to company terminology.

To simplify it, it comes down to company terminology.

Exactly ..

To simplifying it, it comes down to company Terminology.

We can not contradict what is officially established by the company .. But Mirage consider mutants are mutations, it means that this point of view is not inappropriate.. In general we could consider Mr.Sinister and Mr.Freeze mutant, and also Red Skull and Captain America mutant..

@serum said:

@god_spawn said:

@serum: Then each company has their own terms. DC has meta-humans , super humans and aliens, , Marvel calls people with homo superior genes mutants like the X-men, they have homo superior gene in them and it's a Marvel thing it doesn't mean it affects DC in the slightest. All because Mirage calls the turtles mutants they won't be called mutants in Marvel based on Marvel's definition of a mutant. People who acquire mutant like powers not by birth in Marvel are mutates like Spider-Man, Cloak and Dagger etc. It comes down to company terminology.

To simplify it, it comes down to company terminology.

Exactly ..

To simplifying it, it comes down to company Terminology.

We can not contradict what is officially established by the company .. But Mirage consider mutants are mutations, it means that this point of view is not inappropriate.. In general we could consider Mr.Sinister and Mr.Freeze mutant, and also Red Skull and Captain America mutant..

you have a very interesting view in theory but the bottom line is this my friend, in the Marvel Universe there are Mutants, mutates and enhanced humans. Captain America and Red Skull are not and should not be considered as mutants, they have been enhanced to the physical peak of human evolution. Wolverine is a mutant with enhancements to further his lethality, as well as someone like say Victor Creed. Mr. Freeze could be considered a mutate, because his powers were not intentional they were accidental after a botched experimentation. Spiderman would also be considered a mutate because his powers came from a mutated spider, also accidental. From what I have read in comics mutation experimentation is kind of like the stepchild to enhancing experimentation. It also should be noted that most mutations that aren't natural usually occur by accident in comics, and they usually involve a changing of a character on a cellular level as well as a physical level. Like making someone take the physical characteristics of a shark, to compliment giving them the power to swim and bite like one. Or spiderman's wall crawling and amazing spider like balance and agility...

Mutants are genetically altered homo sapiens through natural means. In short; they're the next form of life after humans. The term "superhuman" is a broad attribute that can include mutants, as they display extraordinary abilities that humans cannot perform. That being said, Wolverine without his adamantium skeleton would not be as strong (bench press wise) as Steve. Why? Captain America's shield is an external weapon separate from his body, whereas the adamantium was laced onto Logan's bones, providing a stronger and more resilient skeletal structure. Hence the reason why he is able to lift about a ton without any damage to his spine, although his muscle tissues are constantly tearing and being healed at the same time. The adamantium also adds to his overall body mass, which results in stronger striking power. Nonetheless, without their offensive weapons, both Cap and Logan would be considered superhuman, seeing as how Cap has the Super soldier serum and Wolverine has the healing factor; both of them being endurance machines.

Cap is peak human.Wolverine is superhuman with or without adamantium.He outclasses him.

Cap has more strength and agility/speed feats than Logan. Without adamantium logan is just a normal man with feral senss and regenerative healing.... meanwhile Cap has stronger musculature, connective tissue and bones far in excess of any man... he can jump from hundreds of feet and land like we jump down a small flight of steps. The SSS emhamced his reflexes and thought processes he can react to multiple threats faster and analyze multiple streams of information. He can be surrounded by hydra or nazi troops with rifles and none can manage to hit him. He can run up to 50mph in extreme cases