Heroes Always Come Back

Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

So, Wildstorm is being integrated into the reborn DCU (DCNU? Is that for real?). I'm glad. The only problems I had with that idea back when Wildstorm was being slowly killed was that the characters I know and love wouldn't (and in many cases couldn't) fit into the DCU. With the whole universe being reshuffled however, things could be made to work. Sadly, not everything will (I can't imagine Majestic will be more powerful than Superman and be allowed to have the visibility/presence he had in the WSU. I think he'd have to be weakened or lose major page time, or be made into some kind of villain, which would be a bad combination of both options.), but from what DC has shown so far, I think there's hope. Granted, everything right now is ideas, and whether they are executed well or not remains to be seen, but below are just my thoughts at this point.

First up is Voodoo: Priscilla Kitaen has just found out she’s a monster. A half-alien hybrid, the woman known as Voodoo must confront the secrets of her past to make sense of the nightmare her life has suddenly become. VOODOO #1 will be written by Ron Marz with art by Sami Basri.

Looks very pretty, but honestly I don't care. I was never a huge fan of Voodoo and she didn't make much of an impression on me. If they do something interesting with her, great, but I'll have to find out about that through other people.

Then there's Grifter: Ex-black ops agent Cole Cash is a charming grifter that few can resist. And yet he’s about to be branded a serial killer when he begins hunting and exterminating inhuman creatures hidden in human form – creatures only he can see. Can the biggest sweet talker of all time talk his way out of this one when even his brother thinks he’s gone over the edge? Find out in GRIFTER #1, written by Nathan Edmondson with art by CAFU and BIT (the team behind T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS).

Picking it up of course. I like Grifter and this looks interesting. I think it's a good use for the character. No reason not to try it. I haven't read Thunderagents so I don't know the team, but whatevs.

Last but certainly not least: Stormwatch is a dangerous super human strike force whose existence is kept secret from the world. Jack Hawksmoor and the rest of the crew look to recruit two of the deadliest super humans on the planet: Midnighter and Apollo. And if they say no? Perhaps the Martian Manhunter can change their minds. Featuring a surprising new roster, STORMWATCH #1 will be written by the critically-acclaimed Paul Cornell (Superman: The Black Ring, “Dr. Who”) and illustrated by Miguel Sepulveda.

There's no part of this I'm not excited about. Ok, maaaaaybe the costumes/art (alright, definitely the costumes, I mean really, a chin spike? And apparently Jack thinks he's a balding Apollo), but other than that I'm on board. It's got my favorite character (Hawksmoor) and a couple others I like a lot (MM and Midnighter), written by Paul Cornell (whom I also like quite a bit) and they're a bit separate from the rest of the universe so some of the problems of integration might be avoided. I guess I am assuming their personalities will all be the same, which may not be the case, but if those are intact, I feel like this will be great. I've wanted MM and Hawksmoor on the same team for quite a while, and this is better than I thought it would be. My only reservations comes from 2 things. First is that MM is really powerful. I hope he doesn't get played down too much to hang with the rest of the team. Apollo is there so he shouldn't be the only big gun and have to be super gimped, but I'm still worried. The other thing comes from this statement from Dan Didio: "I think it’s not just the Stormwatch characters we all know brought into the DCU. They’ve been reimagined. They have been re-thought through and I think last year ended the characters at a good place. I think what is really interesting is that these characters are new and different, yet somewhat like the ones that readers remember from the Wildstorm days..." I know some reworking needs to take place, but I really hope that the things that make these characters who they are remain intact. That has a lot to do with character/personality as well as powers. I'm cool with histories being changed and things like that, but who they are and what they can do seem integral to who these characters are and I hope they're not sacrificed to make them fit.

PLEASE DC, don't screw this up.

Moderator
#1 Posted by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: Wait so Wildstorm is no longer Earth 50? it's part of new earth or earth one or whatever they call it nowadays. 
And probably no majestic. :'((
#2 Posted by IrishX (2367 posts) - - Show Bio

Always been a fan of the Image/Wildstorm/Top Cow characters from the mid 90's but I've only read limited amounts of them. My main interest's have always been Deathblow and Grifter (Team 7 in general).  
 
I'll definitely be picking up this Grifter series and hopefully it does well.

#3 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't believe the cancelling stories meant the end of the Wildstorm characters in the first place, given when Jim Lee first went to DC he announced the the number one reason
for doing so was to preserve them, whereas he thought DC Comics was a better place to do this as well to reach more audiences, and was more than likely contractual. 
If memory serves me the initial plan was to integrate them into DC continuity from the get go, but things didn't work out that way.
Personally I hope they don't kill what makes these characters great either in their integration/homogenization, but I've also been wondering when they would finally merge them
into DC fully given Lee's opening salvo, and am glad it's finally happening as this should grant these characters a change to increase the readership they can reach, which
will in turn attract many to read the comics that made these characters, as well as even open up a better shot of any of them getting on the current live-action train which
will help to solidify their existence even more. I never judge a book by it's cover, which tends to be a good idea in choosing comics, literally, and plan on giving all of these titles
at least a look.

#4 Posted by BKole (501 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that might actually be Apollo there, and the shading is wafty. I saw a Cully Hamner design for Apollo and it was the same costume as the central guy...At least we get more Jack though...

Right?

#5 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@BKole said:

I think that might actually be Apollo there, and the shading is wafty. I saw a Cully Hamner design for Apollo and it was the same costume as the central guy...At least we get more Jack though...

Right?

You're right, it is Apollo. Originally I was going off the idea that Hawksmoor was leading it (so, standing in the front) and a comment by Paul Cornell saying it was him in the front. I saw a post from Cornell yesterday saying he'd made a mistake but I guess I never came back to fix mine. On the one hand I'm glad because I'd like Hawksmoor to look better (and maybe to be in his suit again), but on the other hand I feel bad for Apollo if that's how he's going to look.

Moderator
#6 Posted by warlord1234 (1268 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:

So, Wildstorm is being integrated into the reborn DCU (DCNU? Is that for real?). I'm glad. The only problems I had with that idea back when Wildstorm was being slowly killed was that the characters I know and love wouldn't (and in many cases couldn't) fit into the DCU. With the whole universe being reshuffled however, things could be made to work. Sadly, not everything will (I can't imagine Majestic will be more powerful than Superman and be allowed to have the visibility/presence he had in the WSU. I think he'd have to be weakened or lose major page time, or be made into some kind of villain, which would be a bad combination of both options.), but from what DC has shown so far, I think there's hope. Granted, everything right now is ideas, and whether they are executed well or not remains to be seen, but below are just my thoughts at this point.

First up is Voodoo: Priscilla Kitaen has just found out she’s a monster. A half-alien hybrid, the woman known as Voodoo must confront the secrets of her past to make sense of the nightmare her life has suddenly become. VOODOO #1 will be written by Ron Marz with art by Sami Basri.

 

Looks very pretty, but honestly I don't care. I was never a huge fan of Voodoo and she didn't make much of an impression on me. If they do something interesting with her, great, but I'll have to find out about that through other people.

Then there's Grifter: Ex-black ops agent Cole Cash is a charming grifter that few can resist. And yet he’s about to be branded a serial killer when he begins hunting and exterminating inhuman creatures hidden in human form – creatures only he can see. Can the biggest sweet talker of all time talk his way out of this one when even his brother thinks he’s gone over the edge? Find out in GRIFTER #1, written by Nathan Edmondson with art by CAFU and BIT (the team behind T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS).

 

Picking it up of course. I like Grifter and this looks interesting. I think it's a good use for the character. No reason not to try it. I haven't read Thunderagents so I don't know the team, but whatevs.

Last but certainly not least: Stormwatch is a dangerous super human strike force whose existence is kept secret from the world. Jack Hawksmoor and the rest of the crew look to recruit two of the deadliest super humans on the planet: Midnighter and Apollo. And if they say no? Perhaps the Martian Manhunter can change their minds. Featuring a surprising new roster, STORMWATCH #1 will be written by the critically-acclaimed Paul Cornell (Superman: The Black Ring, “Dr. Who”) and illustrated by Miguel Sepulveda.

 

There's no part of this I'm not excited about. Ok, maaaaaybe the costumes/art (alright, definitely the costumes, I mean really, a chin spike? And apparently Jack thinks he's a balding Apollo), but other than that I'm on board. It's got my favorite character (Hawksmoor) and a couple others I like a lot (MM and Midnighter), written by Paul Cornell (whom I also like quite a bit) and they're a bit separate from the rest of the universe so some of the problems of integration might be avoided. I guess I am assuming their personalities will all be the same, which may not be the case, but if those are intact, I feel like this will be great. I've wanted MM and Hawksmoor on the same team for quite a while, and this is better than I thought it would be. My only reservations comes from 2 things. First is that MM is really powerful. I hope he doesn't get played down too much to hang with the rest of the team. Apollo is there so he shouldn't be the only big gun and have to be super gimped, but I'm still worried. The other thing comes from this statement from Dan Didio: "I think it’s not just the Stormwatch characters we all know brought into the DCU. They’ve been reimagined. They have been re-thought through and I think last year ended the characters at a good place. I think what is really interesting is that these characters are new and different, yet somewhat like the ones that readers remember from the Wildstorm days..." I know some reworking needs to take place, but I really hope that the things that make these characters who they are remain intact. That has a lot to do with character/personality as well as powers. I'm cool with histories being changed and things like that, but who they are and what they can do seem integral to who these characters are and I hope they're not sacrificed to make them fit.

PLEASE DC, don't screw this up.


I am not happy with this. Because they are chaning the continuity. Wildstorm had good stories such has homecoming, gang war, point blank, sleeper and world end(these are one of my farouite stories) and i am also worried with how the rebooted Khera is going to be like because one of the main reason i got into Wildstorm was because of my curiosity of the planet Khera. Wildstorm has done good for a baby comic. It had issue such has Majestic killing his long time friend such has John Colt, TAO talking about how human have been lying to themselve inorder to give they life meaning. Holden coming to release that working for T.A.O was no different then working for John Lych or the U.S government, Majestic releasing that everything he was told aout the Daemonites was a lie and his kherubim heritage. I don't like the fact that they going to characters stories when everything was great already.
#7 Edited by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlord1234: They're not changing the Wildstorm continuity. The Wildstorm continuity is over. That universe is gone and the stories in it have been told. What comes now is something new. I'm hoping that the things that made most of the characters special are kept, but their universe is no more. What I'm doing, and I know I'm not alone in this, is keeping the WSU separate in my mind. This is not a continuation of what I know. What has happened has happened and while it won't continue, it can't ever be changed. This is the story of another universe, not the WSU or even the old DCU. These are just stories from a different reality. The real Jack Hawksmoor may once have stepped through a Door into this universe and taken a peek before leaving, but now I'll be reading about the stories of a different Jack. One who's friends with Martian Manhunter. These are different characters with different stories in a different world. Again, I'd love for their personalities and drives to be intact, and I feel it's the best we could hope for, but I imagine those might change if they've got different histories or just to suit the stories being told. Hopefully the new stories will be worth reading so in addition to the old stuff we love, we'll have new things to enjoy.

I guess all of that assumes that they're actually scrapping the universe. If it turns out that they're trying to merge them in some way that hangs on to WSU continuity (which doesn't seem to be the case, especially given the Voodoo and Grifter series info) then I might think differently. Or I might just pretend its how I'm thinking of it now.

Moderator
#8 Posted by warlord1234 (1268 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:

@warlord1234: They're not changing the Wildstorm continuity. The Wildstorm continuity is over. That universe is gone and the stories in it have been told. What comes now is something new. I'm hoping that the things that made most of the characters special are kept, but their universe is no more. What I'm doing, and I know I'm not alone in this, is keeping the WSU separate in my mind. This is not a continuation of what I know. What has happened has happened and while it won't continue, it can't ever be changed. This is the story of another universe, not the WSU or even the old DCU. These are just stories from a different reality. The real Jack Hawksmoor may once have stepped through a Door into this universe and taken a peek before leaving, but now I'll be reading about the stories of a different Jack. One who's friends with Martian Manhunter. These are different characters with different stories in a different world. Again, I'd love for their personalities and drives to be intact, and I feel it's the best we could hope for, but I imagine those might change if they've got different histories or just to suit the stories being told. Hopefully the new stories will be worth reading so in addition to the old stuff we love, we'll have new things to enjoy.


when is the release date?
#9 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by warlord1234 (1268 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Updates:

Voodoo will apparently be bisexual. Meh. This interests me not at all.

Nice interview from IFanboy with Grifter's creator. Below is what I liked, Grifter's opinions on certain members of the superhero community in the DCU.

Grifter on Batman:

"I don't trust Batman. But it's nothing about the man himself. I just don't trust anyone whose face I can't read. You can't grift a man you can't read, you can't fight a man you can't read. Half the battles he wins are due the fact that his opponents don't know what he's thinking--a mask is just cheating (I should know, I wear one). At least when you're up against men. Step in front of a Daemonite whose gaze will literally make your blood boil and then we'll call a mask necessary."

Grifter on Cyborg:

"I know he's only half human, but that half is more decent to me than most full-flesh folk I know. Though, I will say: he's another reason not to leave an electronic trail. Or to use Facebook."

Grifter on Martian Manhunter:

"He's an alien. Yeah, I'm not too fond of aliens at the moment."

Grifter on Deathstroke, The Terminator:

"I like his style, but I'm not sure I like the competition."

Grifter on Mister Terrific:

"Very intelligent. Maybe a little to smart for his own good. I don't know the guy, but i know what's happened to a few folks that have crossed his path. So if you're listening, Mister: you come near me, I'll blow your T-balls away."

Grifter on John Constantine:

"There are only a few men out there who have gazed into the abyss and not gone mad. I'm one of them, and so is John Constantine. The abyss has gazed into both of us, and that makes us brothers in a way."

Grifter on Wonder Woman:

"She's attractive, but I'm not sure she's who she says she is. At the very least, she represents a failure in international diplomacy on an epic scale. Wars are the failure of both the church and the state, we used to say in the unit. Well, she represents both, doesn't she?"

Was going to put up new covers for Stormwatch and Grifter but the image upload thing isn't working for me at the moment.

Moderator
#12 Posted by superojsimpson (784 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: Hey buckshot, Do you sill remember 4 power?  if so, then do you think he'll still come back?
#13 Edited by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember Fourpower...and P-Man and ScoodleDaddle and cosmic sentinel and slingshot and forever and more, dunno if they'll come back. I've seen a couple of them active on the site since their departures, they just don't make themselves known.

Moderator
#14 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm way too excited for Stormwatch #1. I can't wait any longer. This interview with Paul Cornell was great (especially the bits on how The Projectionist and Jenny Q work not to mention how good his opinion of Jack Hawksmoor and Warren Ellis' work makes me feel) and then I saw some pictures.

“Do we look like ‘super-heroes’? We’re the professionals.” — Jack Hawksmoor in STORMWATCH #1

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#15 Posted by Dernman (15086 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel, Icon, Martian Manhunter, Mr Majestic, Apollo, Power GIrl, Super Girl. on and on. 
They keep watering down Superman there wont be a point to keeping him around at all.

#16 Posted by Jake Fury (18617 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pumped for my first foray into Stormwatch!
#17 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33369 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
Captain Marvel, Icon, Martian Manhunter, Mr Majestic, Apollo, Power GIrl, Super Girl. on and on. They keep watering down Superman there wont be a point to keeping him around at all.
Majestic and Apollo are bot infinitely more interesting than Superman IMO
#18 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jake Fury said:

I'm pumped for my first foray into Stormwatch!

I can't believe I have to wait one more day. And then I'll have to wait a whole month for the next issue! The only thing I'm not excited for is Midnighter's costume and The Engineer not being as amazing as she should be. Everything else I've seen or heard so far has me chomping at the bit. I'm seeing Stormwatch as the love child of The Authority and Planetary, and that just seems like a good idea.

Moderator
#19 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

Captain Marvel, Icon, Martian Manhunter, Mr Majestic, Apollo, Power GIrl, Super Girl. on and on. They keep watering down Superman there wont be a point to keeping him around at all.

I don't think Superman is watered down at all. There are other popular flying bricks but, in the DCU anyway, he's always the best and no one can really challenge his position at the top. The only watering down occurring is a conscious attempt to do so in the new DCnU and that has nothing to do with the addition of more flying bricks but an attempt to make him less of a detached deity. The only ones you listed that could actually make Superman look bad in comparison are Martian Manthunter (and it's usually him who ends up getting shafted) and Mr. Majestic (who it hasn't even been hinted at that he'll appear in the DCnU). And honestly, with Majestic, I hope he never appears on DC Earth because then he'd have to be compared with Superman and they'd gimp him to make Supes look better. I'd prefer that Khera be like Rann and Thanagar, a planet far away in space that exists but mostly doesn't factor in to things. That way Majestic could be the hero of that planet and maybe occasionally he has adventures with other heroes and that's when he shows up, but since he's not a constant presence on Earth Superman doesn't need to be established as better than him.

Moderator
#20 Posted by Jake Fury (18617 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot
It's probably the book I'm the most excited about.  
 
I like Jonn's new look too.
#21 Posted by Billy Batson (58024 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks interesting. Makes me want to read the old WS again :) 

BB

#22 Posted by danhimself (22541 posts) - - Show Bio

Gen13 has always been my favorite part of Wildstorm....they were never better than when they were written by Choi, Campbell, and Simone's latest run.....I'm really hoping that at some point in the DCnU they'll get some attention by a good writer...hopefully Simone

#23 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

Just skimmed the preview and I'm kind of turned off now...although that was because the cheesy Projectionist dialogue used to describe her powers and the fact that only two weeks into their new universe, they are ALREADY USING EDITORIAL NOTES! and for a book that doesn't come out for three more weeks on top of that shakes head

I hope DV8 gets incorporated into the new DCU, I've always been pissed that Gods and Monsters was intended to re-incorporate the team into the WSU and in return, the WSU was ended

Moderator
#24 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@aztek_the_lost: I agree about the expository dialogue, it's a pain to read. I think I'm just accepting it because it's a first issue and that happens sometimes in first issues (doesn't have to, but it does).

Moderator
#25 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: Yeah, I know it's a necessary evil, but I'm really worried they're going to try WAY too hard to keep things accessible to new readers (and not just in this comic but in others as well). I mean what's wrong with us not understanding her powers until #4 or something. I just hope the problem isn't Cornell, I know I've never really been blown away by anything of his but that might just be me? Either way, I'll check out the first issue at least. I really want to enjoy this book.

Moderator
#26 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@aztek_the_lost: I don't think it's Cornell. I don't remember everything I've read of his, but I know I really liked his work on Wisdom, Captain Britain & MI:13, and I think Dark X-Men too. Aside from the exposition, I think the only other thing the previews make me worry about is the art. It's not terrible or anything but I was expecting something better.

Moderator
#27 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: He wrote that Captain Britain series? Hmm, I remember wanting to read that when it came out. I don't think I'd even heard of Cornell at the time though. I do remember reading (or maybe trying to read) his Action Comics and losing interest about halfway through and never continuing. I know other people seemed to love it but I was unsatisfied. And I remember in the recent Strange Adventures anthology from Vertigo his story was easily the least-interesting. Not saying he's a bad writer but I was seeing all these great writers mentioned for these new books, so I guess I was expecting better here, I don't even think I knew Cornell was writing this until today. To be honest though, the cover kind of had me expecting less from the art, it's not a bad cover but it seems a lot less striking then a lot of the other #1's. That said, I don't actually think the art is that bad, although some character seem a little off.

Just watched that interview you linked to earlier though and I think that has cancelled out the preview and has me a little excited again.

Moderator
#28 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Til there's a Stormwatch Thread (I'm too lazy) i'll just put my thoughts on the book here.

I read it. I was a little let down. Not by the concepts (though there's one they haven't sold me on yet) or characters really, more by the lack of subtlety in the unfolding of both. The exposition was a bit thick, even taking into account that it's a first issue. That was my only real problem with it. I mean, I also don't like the art and I don't know if that is because of the coloring or inking, but unless it's utter crap, art is something I can deal with if the writing is good and it's not like the art was terrible or anything. Otherwise I'm looking forward to good things. I liked this from MightyGodKing, "You kind of have to love that Paul Cornell’s answer to the redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that already had the Justice League is to say that Stormwatch are the real defenders of Earth and that the Justice League are posers, and to have the Martian Manhunter be the one to say that to boot. That takes balls I didn’t think anybody writing for DC still had." And yes, the redundancy of Stormwatch in a universe that has the JL is the thing they haven't sold me on. They say they're not superheroes but at this point they don't seem different other than that they're not publicly recognized. And since they gave up The Authority's objective of saving the world from itself just to take on one of saving the world from alien threats and doing it secretly, they really need to do that well because it's not terribly original.

Moderator
#29 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: Chin spike! See... you don't like it either :P Haha, I kid I kid.
#30 Posted by mrtrickster (2307 posts) - - Show Bio

so far these titles have been mediocre at best, voodoo got cancelled, grifter book has been horrible imo 
I can enjoy stormwatch for what it is if I don't compare it to Ellis and Jim Lee's old wildstorm
haven't read the ravagers, is it any good?

#31 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrtrickster: I thought Voodoo was pretty good and Stormwatch and Grifter were just wasted potential. Haven't read Ravagers.

Moderator
#32 Posted by mrtrickster (2307 posts) - - Show Bio

just as I started enjoy team 7 the title is gonna get cancelled soon, sign...

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