Trading Views: Iron Man - Demon In A Bottle

Tony Stark drinking, Justin Hammer, Whiplash, how's the story hold up?

Embed
Click To Unmute

Want us to remember this setting for all your devices?

Sign up or Sign in now!

Please use a html5 video capable browser to watch videos.
This video has an invalid file format.
00:00:00
Sorry, but you can't access this content!
Please enter your date of birth to view this video

By clicking 'enter', you agree to Comic Vine's
Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

42 Comments

Avatar image for aspenite
Aspenite

935

Forum Posts

15053

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 29

User Lists: 3

Edited By Aspenite

I really like the old stories of the Marvel characters. And here you see that nobody is perfect. Iconic!

Avatar image for freddy_mercurial
Freddy.Mercurial

152

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Freddy.Mercurial

BURY IT??????  Babs, u've officially lost your laminated Avengers card...  :(

Avatar image for bruce_vain
Bruce Vain

1833

Forum Posts

9

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Bruce Vain

I'm very disappointed to hear you say bury it , Babs. But it's cool lol 
 
I feel the same way as you do Tony towards the book. :-)

Avatar image for xerox_kitty
xerox_kitty

17342

Forum Posts

275139

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 15

User Lists: 22

Edited By xerox_kitty

I love comics from the late 70's/early 80's.  The traditional within-the-panel style is easily abandoned by artists who don't know how to tell a story.  Also, the political concerns of the time seem so far away from us now that it's like a history lesson.  But more than anything... I love the fashion!  The flared collars, cuffs & trousers along with the big hair!  I just really love it! 
 
I've never been a big Iron Man fan, but I do love the old alcoholic story.  Mind you, it's easier to poke fun at it than take it seriously.  But it's still a landmark in Iron Man's life.

Avatar image for nova_prime_
Nova`Prime`

4172

Forum Posts

25

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Nova`Prime`

I'd have to agree with GMan, if you are an Iron Man fan (heck if you're a comic fan) you should buy this trade. It may be dated and cheesy, but its comic history.

Avatar image for sora_thekey
sora_thekey

8812

Forum Posts

18983

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 31

User Lists: 8

Edited By sora_thekey

I liked the Romita Jr. was better there! 
I mean I don't like Romita's art now... for some reason it bugs me a lot! 
 
If you wouldn't have told me that was Romita's art I wouldn't have noticed... So I know Tony said Buy it and Babs said Bury it, but can somebody let me borrow it?
Avatar image for phantom_patriot
Phantom Patriot

29

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Phantom Patriot

I don't think I'll buy it right away, but I think its important to read it, out of respect for the authors and since Iron man's a critical character in Marvel's U.

Avatar image for lostlantern13
lostlantern13

1033

Forum Posts

11570

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 162

User Lists: 0

Edited By lostlantern13
@Nova`Prime` said:
"I'd have to agree with GMan, if you are an Iron Man fan (heck if you're a comic fan) you should buy this trade. It may be dated and cheesy, but its comic history."

Completely agree.
Avatar image for mysteriomaximus
MysterioMaximus

951

Forum Posts

19

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 8

Edited By MysterioMaximus

Oh man...buy it! It's classic stuff.
Avatar image for theansweris42
Theansweris42

44

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

Edited By Theansweris42

Not really fair calling it cliche.  
 
I mean you can't really call Superman cliche because he was one of the first, and while this isn't a 1940's comic it was still in the beginning of the silver age, and comics like this helped defined the silver age. 

Avatar image for foxxfireart
FoxxFireArt

3645

Forum Posts

336411

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 2

Edited By FoxxFireArt

"Chinese Gorilla"?? Aren't gorillas primarily from Africa? I think Namor would probably need money. What would he pay with, clams? I'm not sure what the exchange rate is with the Atlantian currency.
 
There is a lot of comparisons made with modern comics.
 
Though, I do think Babs needs to copyright that term, "Fashion Recycles".

Avatar image for branagin77
Branagin77

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

Edited By Branagin77

Oh my god were talking 1979 over 30 years ago.. Can I get a nooo Duh!!
 
JR JR is the bomb!!! He deserves the Respect just for the fact he's put in the hours...He's what you call a PRO! 
 
BLASPHEMY...

Avatar image for psychopanda
PsychoPanda

206

Forum Posts

19509

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 7

Edited By PsychoPanda

I feel sorry for people who can't appreciate the styles of the earlier artists. It's like saying "Michelangelo was an okay painter", just because he was decades before Warhol . You really have to know the history of any medium to understand it completely and make appropriate judgments. I know that it took me awhile to appreciate the artists before my generation (Kirby, Kane, Eisner, etc.). Nowadays I find it sad that some modern artists lean so heavily on photoshop techniques. I think those artists are really missing the point of what "comic art" really is. Layton and Romita Jr's art on this run, was actually some of the better art being produced this time. Along with Miller, Byrne, Perez, etc., they were the top of the heap of their time, not just the 'average artist'.
 
I do have to commend both reviewers for honestly expressing their feelings about this trade. It seemed like Babs knew her statement was going to be somewhat unpopular, but had the guts to say it anyways. (if you read this, try checking out some original art of early artists some time...the Jack Kirby Collector is a pretty good magazine to start with) 
 
Oh, and as   sora_thekey noted...the art doesn't look much like Romita Jr's. There a couple of reasons for this; Romita Jr was somewhat new at this time and still developing his style. Also Bob Layton inked most of these stories and  was very heavy handed, obliterating the pencils he inked over to create the look he wanted for the comic.

Avatar image for thesavageassasin
TheSavageAssasin

2688

Forum Posts

533

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

Edited By TheSavageAssasin

Babs!!!You crazy!!!I agree with Tony.It's a classic and very important to Tony Stark's story!!I also think the art is awesome!

Avatar image for chalkshark
chalkshark

1271

Forum Posts

407273

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 6

Edited By chalkshark

How do you bury a story that is, essentially, the blue print for the Iron Man film franchise? The Micheline/Romita Jr./Layton run on Iron Man is, arguably, the most relevant story told with the character since his introduction in  Tales of  Suspense. I disagree that the art looks less dynamic than the work seen in modern comics. Even at that early a stage in his career, Romita Jr. was a strong storyteller who maintained a consistent level in his work & could also meet a monthly deadline..... something virtually all of today's "hot" artists are incapable of doing.  This story was a high point in the evolution of the character, & is constantly referenced by everyone who's worked on Iron Man  since.

Avatar image for gmanfromheck
gmanfromheck

42524

Forum Posts

259238

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 472

User Lists: 2

Edited By gmanfromheck

You have to admit it comes across as cheesy when read today. 
 
There was actually a little more to our conversation that we'll upload in the coming week.

Avatar image for ohtru
OhTru

1603

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By OhTru

Buy it!

Avatar image for no_name_
No_Name_

16193

Forum Posts

2734

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 55

User Lists: 2

Edited By No_Name_

I knew most/all of you would disagree with me, but I really felt that while the concept for establishing Iron Man as an imperfect character was awesome, the book is truly dated and was (at least for me) a hard read. I really think that I didn't learn anything I did not already know about the character in this book, and I would rather spend my time reading a different graphic novel. Anyway, hope no one if offended, it is after all an opinion. Thanks for watching the review!

Avatar image for michaelthefly
MichaeltheFly

6651

Forum Posts

50889

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 26

Edited By MichaeltheFly

Can't wait to see what the next Trading Views will be about.

Avatar image for the_fallen11
the_fallen11

642

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Edited By the_fallen11

 Chinese Gorilla huh?

Avatar image for luthorcrow
Luthorcrow

178

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Luthorcrow

Was the writing cheesy? By today's standards sure but again it's not fair to view out of the context. This is pre Alan Moore, Howard Chaykin, Neil Gaiman , Frank Miller and all the other alt comic writers of the 80s that redefined quality writing and themes in comic books.  Let's be fair the only writer pre 1980 that was really good was Denny O'Neil.
 
I think it is fair to criticise books that come after say Watchman, etc for cheesy writing but everything before 1980 really has to be read in context.
 
What I do completely disagree with the review is the art John Romita Jr.  I have always felt that he took the style of his father's generation but did it better.  The level of detail and clean lines in his work is incredible. I think the amazing thing about him as an artist as he always been created amazing art even as his style has changed radically.  I honestly don't think he has ever been given the proper due.

Avatar image for cassio411
Cassio411

72

Forum Posts

5484

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Cassio411

I think it is awesome that trades are being reviewed as part of what you guys provide in the website. On the hopes of seeing more trades and more recent ones. Keep it up!

Avatar image for omega_ray_jay
Omega Ray Jay

8496

Forum Posts

50508

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 18

User Lists: 5

Edited By Omega Ray Jay

Only Iron Man trade I have is Doomquest and im loving that. Had been pondering getting this, always wanted to find out about the story line been as well known as it is.

Avatar image for FLSTYLE
FLStyle

378

Forum Posts

40

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By FLStyle

Part of me likes a good story, part of like wants a good amount of quality in the drawings. I'd rent it.

Avatar image for kelleth
Kamen Rider Kajiki

1218

Forum Posts

218

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Do Spiderman: Kraven`s Last Hunt next please :) (because i just bought it that`s why lol)

Avatar image for savonti
Savonti

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Savonti

Pearls before swine.

Avatar image for foxxfireart
FoxxFireArt

3645

Forum Posts

336411

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 2

Edited By FoxxFireArt
@Babs: 
I think someone has some issues if they took any great offense to you stating your opinion.
 
I'm unsure if it is all a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It just strikes me as a bit of overstating the obvious to call the book "dated". A lot of comics couldn't compare when stacking them up to a modern equivalent.
This book has something rather unique about it. This showed the decent of a hero to a chemical dependency issue. In the past, this issue always fell the to sidekick. This was showing the hero falling and how it effected those around him. If this had gone over poorly. It could of killed the book.
This was quite the gamble for the era. This wasn't something that he just 'recovered' from. Alcoholism is something that looms over Tony's head to this very day. He even made mention of it as he sat before the body of Steve Rogers after Civil War.
I remember some of the critiques you've made about more modern comics include having heroes suffering from some tragic event that is resolved or just dropped altogether. Never to be mentioned again.
 
Yes, the clothes were rather silly, but they were the fashions of the time. I'm one of the people who still thinks Jubilee needs to lose the yellow slicker and neon colors. She looks like a late 80s mall rat.
Avatar image for waruikumo
waruikumo

364

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 2

Edited By waruikumo
@Babs:  
 
agreed, alot of the older stuff is dated, but I can't really put my finger on what makes it "dated".  It's just the art, but something about the style of narrative in the 60's and 70's.   
 
I dunno, some of the stuff from the era IMO was great, Jim Starlin's Death of Captain Marvel trade is one of my favorite stories.  And he's one of the only characters to stay dead largely.  But I had a really hard time reading the first 10 issues of Amazing Spiderman.
Avatar image for chalkshark
chalkshark

1271

Forum Posts

407273

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 6

Edited By chalkshark
@Luthorcrow:  I feel you're being a tad dismissive of the comic's writer's of the 1970's. Yes, Denny O'Neil crafted some fine stories, but so did Steve Gerber.... & Jim Starlin.... & Chris Claremont.... & Doug Moench. Comics may have taken on a new relevance in the 1980's thanks to the works of Moore & MIller, but I'd argue that the 70's also boasted it's fair share of revolutionary writers who pushed the envelope of the genre where they could, while crafting some of the most memorable stories put to paper. 
I do agree with you 100%, though, regarding Romita, Jr. He's a great storyteller, who has consistently refined his illustrative skills into something rather unique, &, most importantly, he keeps a deadline. You never have to wait more than the requisite 30 days for the next installment of a Romita, Jr. drawn book. He always delivers on time. In this day & age of artists delaying books for months between every issue, that fact  alone should be lauded.
Avatar image for tylerlux
TylerLux

29

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By TylerLux
@Babs: What? This was an amazing book and showed that even know we all have issues and might be functioning alcoholics lol like myself we can still serve a purpose. 
Avatar image for iloverobots
iloverobots

466

Forum Posts

112

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By iloverobots
@waruikumo said:
" @Babs:   agreed, alot of the older stuff is dated, but I can't really put my finger on what makes it "dated".  It's just the art, but something about the style of narrative in the 60's and 70's.  "
I re-read Death of Superman not too long ago and I think what makes it somehow dated is that the characters / narration are constantly stating the most obvious stuff, or over-explaining things. It's always like "Oh, I'm gonna use my X-Ray vision to see through this wall and catch of glimpse of the thieves!". It doesn't make the books inferior or anything, it's just... different.
Avatar image for no_name_
No_Name_

16193

Forum Posts

2734

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 55

User Lists: 2

Edited By No_Name_
@TylerLux said:
" @Babs: What? This was an amazing book and showed that even know we all have issues and might be functioning alcoholics lol like myself we can still serve a purpose.  "
You think it's an amazing book because look at your avatar.
Avatar image for aerik
Aerik

78

Forum Posts

153241

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 2

Edited By Aerik

I'm okay with burying it. It's got some good cheese in there. When Tony really lost it and was living on the streets makes for better reading.

Avatar image for doordoor123
doordoor123

3817

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 5

Edited By doordoor123

Yeah sure its a good comic. I love the story, but its so out dated. Especially the art.
I would read it  maybe once ever 12 years.
So i say buy it, bury it for 12 years, read it again, bury it for 12 years and then throw it away. LOL

Avatar image for eganthevile1
EganTheVile1

6753

Forum Posts

63690

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 15

User Lists: 52

Edited By EganTheVile1

It's so easy to write Iron Man off as a D-Bag, but as an alcoholic myself events in ones life often lead to booze becoming a crutch, and it is hard to stop using that crutch, Iron Man is probably the most human character in comics in the sense he has major faults, and very human problems, this was probably one of the best stories of the character, and it is a must read.
Avatar image for mbecks14
Mbecks14

2114

Forum Posts

4160

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 15

Edited By Mbecks14
@Babs said:
" @TylerLux said:
" @Babs: What? This was an amazing book and showed that even know we all have issues and might be functioning alcoholics lol like myself we can still serve a purpose.  "
You think it's an amazing book because look at your avatar. "
hahaha
Avatar image for emerald_warrior
Emerald Warrior

186

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Emerald Warrior

I agree with Babs, just because it's a "classic" doesn't mean it's good. Iron Man fan's may love it, but to anyone else it's definitely better left 6 feet under, IMO.

Avatar image for blueskirt
blueskirt

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By blueskirt

I agree with Babs. The story has ton of potential, the repulsor misfire, Justin's plot, the SHIELD's take over, Jarvis' resignation, Stark's breakdown, fall and rise from alcoholism... but the whole thing get ruined with the cheesy dialogues, the "I'm telling what I'm doing" and the constant need for old comics to focus so much on the fight with the villains of the month instead of the things that made this story arc memorable in the first place. 

Personally I hope one day Marvel will do a retelling of this story arc, like they did with Iron Man: Enter The Mandarin, the same plot, except better told and putting a bigger focus on the important, the memorable events in this book.

Avatar image for cbishop
cbishop

21161

Forum Posts

393968

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 92

User Lists: 1268

Edited By cbishop

I think this is story is great, but didn't like that it came out in the pricey hardcover.  I almost think this should be collected with Armor Wars, which came directly after Demon in a Bottle (if I recall correctly, at 3am... 3AM?!), because having just pulled himself out of the bottle made his battle in Armor Wars even more important (and one of Stane's final gestures even more uncool). 
 
As is, I'd say "borrow it," if you just want to know how hard Tony really had to fight his alcoholism.  If it was collected with Armor Wars (which it's currently not) I'd say definitely "buy it," but I'd say that about Armor Wars as is, so it's not really fair.  I've put off buying this trade, because I read the original issues, so I can't fairly say "buy it," but I do think it should be read by Iron Man fans.

Avatar image for avengpymhawk
avengpymhawk

1034

Forum Posts

96901

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 8

Edited By avengpymhawk

Bury it.....My ears must decieve me.
Avatar image for fedspaz
fedspaz

361

Forum Posts

3534

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 208

User Lists: 3

Edited By fedspaz

G-man says corny and cheesy about the nostalgia, but I love the books from that time frame.  Like he says, it's from the time I started to read them... late 70's thru the 80's.  It's a completely different style and art... but it really appeals to me.  If I find this one somewhere, I'll pick it up.

Avatar image for claud
claud

28

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By claud

BURRY BABS. jeezzzz 
all she cares about is that namor looks bad in comic, like giant white chinese gorilla. 
She's young and didn't read comicbooks from 70's or 80' so she can't understand the main thing about them, charm and a little bit of magic. It is completely different style but it doesnt mean that they're cheesy!!  For example golden age comics or silver age are great. Its a piece of art and culture dammit. 
 
And last thing... even Iron Man can have problems with alkohol, come on.. he's a human too.