45 Comments
Edited by AllStarSuperman

first again, 6 times in a row.

I like when roles get handed down usually

Online
Edited by Fenderxx

Superior Spider-man forever !!

Edited by LyraFay

I didn't like when Jean-Paul Valley replaced Batman. But I didn't mind when Dick Grayson replaced Bruce Wayne because he was the natural successor.

Posted by batmannflash

I totally agree, G-Man!

Edited by iceslick

@g_man: It's about time you answered this. What people don't understand is that these mantles become a LEGACY! Which is due to these characters being great heroes like Peter Parker or Bruce Wayne, etc. It like when a son or daughter looks up to a father or mother as a role model and become their legacy. Sometimes they became great addition or potential to the legacy sometimes they won't. When they fail to become the legacy of that hero they always become their own hero just like people's sons and daughters. Plus, look how many characters that lead a good legacy, Sam Alexander, Dick Grayson, Ben Riley, Kyle Rayner, John Stewart, Guy Gardner, Wally West, Terry McGuiness, Flash Thompson or even the Robins, etc. or even Jean Paul Valley who failed as a Batman but became his own great hero which was Azrael. People just got to look it as the character themselves and not the legacy they are trying to live on to. That's the way I look at it.

Posted by akbogert

Sam Alexander replacing Rider is extremely different from Sam Alexander being Rider's arch-nemesis, killing him, inhabiting his body, and deceiving everyone he's ever known. So, false equivalence there in the highest order.

Of course, the bigger problems I have are twofold:

1. How often does the original actually need to be removed in order for us to get interesting stories with different kinds of characters? I'm loving Injustice and one of the things that makes it enjoyable is that I get to read an ongoing, very different take on beloved characters without having had to give up those characters to get it. Elseworlds are fantastic for that kind of thing and they provide none of the backlash of shocking (or not-so-shocking-but-still-aggravating) deaths and drudgery.

2. Why must it be so selective and arbitrary? I actually love the idea of new characters taking on the same mantles over the years. But that makes a ton more sense in an aging world where characters have lives, where new generations actually take the place of their elders. The constant killing off of newer characters, whether they got the chance to take major mantles briefly or not, to ensure the maintained spotlight for the old guard is probably the only thing worse than the constant killing off and reviving of the older characters.

Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse

I agree.

Posted by Youmika

Yes! Finally! This needed to be said. Love you're hero, no matter who he is and if he acts differently than the last that's fine too, they are different people just wearing the same mask.

Posted by GothamRed

I'm fine with new characters taking over existing roles. It's like when different actors play the same character, you get different takes on similar stories. Just because your favorite characters have someone step into their shoes that doesn't change what the previous incarnation did. It just means that they feel that that version of their character has had their time and now its time to mix things up and start a new generation of readers where you started with your version of the character. And even so we've all been reading comics long enough to know that status quo is god, and all changes get reverted over time, for better or worse.

Posted by simian

This video wasn't amazing... It was SUPERIOR.

Posted by lifeboy

Way over 2 minutes. Sorry. You made the rules...

Posted by PeppeyHare

Totally agree

Posted by ImpurestCheese

You want to talk about bad replacements. I'm still mourning the replacement of Songbird and the other Thunderbolts with the Ross 'Murder Bolts'. And unlike Rich Ryder, Peter Parker or any of the others I can't see Marvel going back to the way the team was.

Posted by G-Man

@lifeboy: timer is set for two minutes. Intro and outro are separate. Sorry if that's a problem for you.

Staff
Edited by lifeboy

@g_man: nuh-uh, you continued your rant after the timer went off. Not a problem for me, but you are the one who made the rules. Lmao!

Posted by DedrabbiT

I don't even see why these videos need a time limit? Let's do some real in depth video discussions sometimes?

Posted by arkay74

Gee, Tony. You have been bringing this topic up on nearly every podcast over the last couple of months. Give it a rest, why don'tcha? :)

Posted by Lvenger

I already know that these characters will come back. Peter Parker for certain. That's not my problem in the slightest. What I'm absolutely livid about is how disrespectfully Slott treats SpOck in his writing. He rewards SpOck for being a sociopathic monster and vilifies every good deed Peter has stood for. This was particularly apparent when ghost Peter was around and the way Slott removes him from the equation was beyond disgusting as a huge Spider-Man fan, making the Peter ghost choose his life over a dying girl's. That's writing I cannot, will not forgive or ever approve of. As for Sam Alexander, Loeb clearly brought this character in as yet another token momentum to Sam Loeb who passed away from cancer in 2005 or 2006. It's sad yes but it's getting beyond a cliché when he namedrops Sam in so many of his writings nowadays. He's even replaced a fan favourite character as a result of this.

Posted by Billdevil

Tony, How often do you hear, "Hey, I got that -shirt." Because I totally got that t-shirt.

Edited by Mucklefluga

In love that tune ahaha!

I'm gonna suggest what I said last time: your opinion on the fact that all Big 2 comics are now starting to become $3.99

Posted by Mucklefluga

But then again maybe that's not hard enough...

Edited by CaptainMarvel4Ever

I agree Tony, everybody complains about their favorite character being gone temporarily, but look at me, I have to deal with the fact that the name my favorite character had for over 70 years is going to be lost, and the fact that his powers, costume, personality, and origin story have all been changed (although I could deal with all of that if he just got his name back). I am honestly stunned by how upset people can be, especially when Superior Spider-Man has been so ineradicably amazing, and Nova, although not as ground breaking, has also been pretty good. So just count yourselves lucky your favorite hero doesn't go through what Captain Marvel is going through and enjoy the ride, because I sure as hell can't.

A Marvel By Any Other Name

Posted by laflux

@lvenger said:

I already know that these characters will come back. Peter Parker for certain. That's not my problem in the slightest. What I'm absolutely livid about is how disrespectfully Slott treats SpOck in his writing. He rewards SpOck for being a sociopathic monster and vilifies every good deed Peter has stood for. This was particularly apparent when ghost Peter was around and the way Slott removes him from the equation was beyond disgusting as a huge Spider-Man fan, making the Peter ghost choose his life over a dying girl's. That's writing I cannot, will not forgive or ever approve of.

Pretty much this. I'm all for change and mixing things up and Peter is far to much of a money magnet to keep him away forever. However, when you do make sweeping changes, it has to be done in a way which respects the character. Superior Spider-Man hasn't been all bad- I'm reading it again, but it seem alot of what Slott does is merely just to shock the reader, rather than develop any storyline.

On the otherhand, the death of Peter Parker in the Ultimate universe was something handled alot better, and fan outcry has been miminzed (although that could be due to the Ultimate Universe's reduced following :P).

Online
Edited by G-Man

@dedrabbit: That's what the "Ask, and Ye Shall Receive...Answers" videos are. They'll come back in 2014. These videos are to basically get me to stop all the tangents and get to the point. And apparently I bring this up every single podcast so there should be some in depth discussion on it.

Staff
Posted by staypuffed

I was never a fan of Nova, but this new series is one of the few Marvel titles I always buy. It's been a blast, and Sam is an enjoyable protagonist.

Posted by thenexusrebound

I didn't like Superior Spider-Man with the free issue one back earlier this year. That being said I am willing to give it another with trades.Its jarring with how different he is from Peter. That said still willing to try again could be surprised.

Posted by cmaprice

I agree Tony, everybody complains about their favorite character being gone temporarily, but look at me, I have to deal with the fact that the name my favorite character had for over 70 years is going to be lost, and the fact that his powers, costume, personality, and origin story have all been changed (although I could deal with all of that if he just got his name back). I am honestly stunned by how upset people can be, especially when Superior Spider-Man has been so ineradicably amazing, and Nova, although not as ground breaking, has also been pretty good. So just count yourselves lucky your favorite hero doesn't go through what Captain Marvel is going through and enjoy the ride, because I sure as hell can't.

A Marvel By Any Other Name

The impractical thing about changing Cap's name to SHAZAM is that if he ever needs to say his name, he'd have to either be coy, or turn back into a kid. Heh.

Edited by PeppeyHare

@lvenger: Would just like to point out that ghost Pete was never actually going to sacrifice that girl. He weighed the outcomes and it crossed his mind for a second but he was never actually going to go through with it.

Posted by Mrfuzzynutz

Grab some coffee for this one...this has been on my mind for awhile, and sadly I have no one to talk shop with. So I have somethings to get off my chest, feel free to ignore me. lol

I always felt change was needed in comics. Some characters having a publication history of fifty of more years, you need to tell stories that reflect the time period, and keep the characters interesting with new challenges and stories. So I complety understand the reasons behind them. We have moved passed the Bank Robbing Thugs and Big Head green alien stories

Having been able around comics since the 80's I have seen just about every major character have a replacement, lose their powers, have children, retire, or just flat out die and be brought back at some point. I have seen the U.S Agents, the Thunderstrikes, and the War Machines of the world come and go. And after seeing it happen so many times, you get a sense of what is successful and what isn't.

My issue will always be the execution of the changes, and how the various creative teams would try to introduce the change, or new characters. I think when the focus was placed into the fate of the original character as there was the new guy you had a better transition. I think for a reader we need to see the torch being passed, or get to know the new guy a bit before he steps into someone else's boots. When you neglect these elements your asking for some negative reaction.

So when I do go on a rant about changes to character, or a storyline it isn't because I believe it will be a permanent swap. I fell for that with the Death of Superman, and The Scarlet Spider stories back in the day ( I also believed wrestling to be real as well...so go figure)It is out of character, not needed to get to the mani goal, or just flat out a bad idea. Like the current X-men universe to me is heading in a bad direction, I think after the events of AvsX, you would want to build the pieces back up, not break them up more, and bring more pieces from the past and break those too.

So this leads up to my biggest issues at the moment. The SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN, NOVA, THE NEW 52, and to a lesser extent HOLLYWOOD influencing comics.

so to briefly explain my stance;

  1. Superior Spider-Man- I think the writers have confused creativity with laziness and presented the readers with one of the most goofy and "Don't ask questions, just go with it" plot twists ever created, even by comic book standards. The concept may have worked better in the 50's and 60's when the "Mad Scientist" ruled the landscape. Plotline aside, you couldn't have a less heroic death then what happened to Peter. No blaze of Glory, no one to mourn him, no one to miss him, he didn't even get to beat the bad guy and save the day in the end only to be replaced with his legacy set to be tarnished and erased. From a reader and fans prospective you feel cheated by what you just read and I was ticked off for the lack of respect a character like Peter Parker was given.
  2. NOVA- Again, longtime fan, so a bit biased in my support for the character, however, Richard Rider has never been more popular or powerful in the comics. At the time, while you wish he was still around, his sacrifice fighting Thanos in the Cancerverse made sense. But then Thanos returns..No Richard...no explanation..The animated series 'Ultimate Spider-Man' was announced that Nova would be on the show, but it ISN'T Rich, and again no explanation why. ( yet none of the other team members got replaced?), and then Sam makes his appearance in the comics truly replacing Rich. I can only assume Marvel was trying to bring in a younger reading audience and follow what DC has done with the Ted Kord/ Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle character.
  3. The New 52- There didn't seem to be a need for such a large scale reboot of the comics at the time, which again gives you that 'cheated' feeling as a reader. But it was the relaunch that left you confused and frustrated as opposed to excited. The first year was filled with creative team changes and cancellations. There wasn't a clear understanding of how this new universe worked, why some characters did not make the cut to the new world, or a proper timeline. Overall the new 52 devalued the product instead of improved it.
  4. And final a new issue that has emerged with cross marketing characters in the media. In years past Movie universe stayed in Movie Universe with one shots, and clear labeling on the cover of tie-in's. However the lines have been blurred, especially over at Marvel. Nick Fury Jr, Agent Coulson, and the first issues of AVENGERS ASSEMBLE were all clear attempts of merging the two words and making it easier for the casual fan to relate and get into the books. It was if it was easier to combine the new characters instead of explaining how Nick Fury looked more like John Forsyte then Sam Jackson, or explain how The Hulk hasn't been an active member of The Avengers since the 60's, or how Iron Man was not the leader of the Avengers, but rather he was responsible for disbanding them on more then one occasion.So slowly the movies and tv are becoming the new source material it seems.

All the replacement controversies in the past have shared the same theme, disrespecting the original character and the reader. Not giving the new guy time to develop and let the readers get used to them and a poor story to introduce them. Guys like Kyle Rayner, Ben Rielly, and John Stewart had hard introductions to comics, while Tim Drake, and Wally West were well received and even surpassed their mentors. Two different methods two different result for the same goal. To evolve your characters and tell good stories.

I have no doubt Peter Parker will be back, in fact I am enjoying the ride to see how Doc goes about being Spider-man and how in the world the do attempt to bring Peter back. I do not feel we will see Rich in the Nova suit for the next 10 yrs or so, outside of a flashback, or a storyline that focuses on the Cancerverse in some form. I feel Sam is here to stay and he does seem to be popular. At the end of the day Pete is a American Icon, Rich is a cool comic book character. The

media influence on comics does concern me going forward as it seems the message is clear which is more important to Marvel and where they will lean towards in the future.

The 'NEW'52 just needs to get back to basics. Cut back on the grand storylines and focus on building your characters. Superman has never been the same since the relaunch, Big Blue boy scout is dead, the super hero other heroes looked up too is gone. He no longer inspires, Now we have a all powerful alien, dating the most desirable woman on the planet who everyone either fears or thinks is a jerk.

In closing, I get the reasons WHY the changes occurred, but I cannot stand to be deceived in the name of generating more revenue, Just as I cannot stand lazy writing and disrespecting the characters that have been around 4-5 DECADES or longer. Change is not only good, but it is essential to comics, but lets not confuse change with bad ideas and poor execution.

Edited by Lvenger

@peppeyhare: We are talking about the guy who revealed his secret identity to a dying boy with cancer, held up the Daily Bugle even though people thought he was making things worse and is always willing to sacrifice his life to save others. He's not perfect but it was incredibly OOC for Peter to even think about prioritising his own life over the girl's.

Edited by PeppeyHare

@lvenger: I'm gonna have to disagree with you about it being OOC. Is Peter always willing to make sacrifices and do the right thing? Yes. Does that mean that other ideas or thoughts never crossed his mind? Not really. Also he wasn't really just thinking his life>hers. He was thinking of all the damage SpOck might cause without him there.

Posted by Lvenger

@peppeyhare: It wasn't written that way at the time. It seemed like Peter was selfishly choosing to live at the cost of the girl's life. Now he has been selfish at times but to be selfish about his own life, that is poor lazy and disrespectful writing to the character and those are traits I don't appreciate in a writer.

Posted by PeppeyHare

@lvenger: It's cool. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions/ preferences.

Posted by Lvenger

@peppeyhare: Indeed, glad we could reach an agreement.

Posted by personz

You're right I should just be patient. I mean Ben Reilly has to come back some time right?

.......right.......

Posted by scarspider

I loved when Dick Grayson was Batman and Damian was Robin. DC should have kept it like that and kept Bruce Wayne Batman global.

Edited by AmyCBryant

Cool!

Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg

I'm ok with a lot of legacy characters (ex. I like both Barry Allen and Wally West), but some characters don't need them, like the Atom. They should've spent more time developing Ray Palmer's mythology than replace him with Choi.