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Posted by grifter78

LOL!  That brown jacket sure is making the rounds at the Comicvine offices.  ;p
Posted by Nova`Prime`

Stick to your day job Babs.

Posted by sora_thekey

I totally agree Babs! 
Get political somewhere else!  

 

PS... Matt is secretly Nightcrawler!

 

 

Moderator
Posted by Nyogtha

I think that Captain America is actually a perfect vehicle for them to use. A lot of my friends that don't read comics think he is this uber right wing patriotic character. When in fact he is one of the most independent minded characters in the Marvel Universe, look at Civil War and now Siege. He aligns him self with rebel causes and fights his own government. He fights for what he thinks is right, no political agenda and no affiliation with any kind of party. He does what is right for the people. Unlike these tea partiers/ "unknown mob," who do have an agenda.

Posted by Nova`Prime`
@Nyogtha said:
" He does what is right for the people. Unlike these tea partiers/ "unknown mob," who do have an agenda. "
Along with the republicans, democrats, communists, right wing crazies, left wing liberals, feminists, gay rights, animal rights, and plant rights. They all have agendas. I have an agenda.. and I am pretty sure you do too.
Posted by Nyogtha
@Nova`Prime`: Haha, touché. But I hate majority of the people behind their agenda.
Posted by FoxxFireArt

So, inspired by Daily Show? Not bad. Though, I prefer the Colbert Report.
So, Joe really lacks the balls to just keep that image in the art files, huh? Marvel comics will be around LONG after the Tea Bag Party is forgotten. Not too surprising since they also look to be backing off the BND/OMD fiasco. Broke them up just to be back again, eventually.
 
The whole Civil War story line was like one giant political commentary. In it there was a massive incident where there was a push for a reactionary legislation. Heroes were being forced to give up rights for the sake of some ideal of more security and not real response. Mutants would have to sign up just for being born. It became a clash of placation versus the American ideals. In the end Captain America dies, suspicions of who to trust in Secret Invasion, and Dark Reign fell. Only since the rebirth of Captain America, though he's not taking on the title, does the world start to turn back.
They even called the one trade paper back "The Iron Patriot Act".
 
For some reason people love it with Palin winks. To me, she does it so much I keep thinking she's having a stroke. She actually thinks that the country only has a two party system. That you have to join one or the other.

" I have to say. I've never seen so many words on Sarah Palin. "

She writes more then that on her hands.
Posted by MysterioMaximus

Great one! To be honest, any jab at Fox News is good with me. Don't back out of it, take pride in it. It means you have some brains!

Posted by Nova`Prime`
@Nyogtha: I concur I dislike most of those people and there agenda. The only agenda I want is to make America better and none of the mouth breathers in DC are interested in that. They want to take power for themselves and do whatever it is they want. The only difference between a repub and a dem now a days is the name.
 
Let's just look at Unemployment, its what between 10 and 12% that's way to high and neither party is really doing anything to fix it. They are just slinging insults at each other, its sad.
Posted by CATMANEXE

well, they withdrew it so theres that. but " Captain America " is a political comic, thats kind of the whole
entire point of the character. so theres going to be political opinions there as a result. strange how at the
same time they didnt raise a stink when comics posed anti-Nazi opinions, or better yet when both Captain 
America and Superman comics we're selling war bonds for them ? the issue in question is what leaves a
bad taste in my mouth though. the Tea Parties largest activity is that they hang out with homemade signs 
that rip on other people and especially diss opposing political parties. and they do as such because theyre
endorsing theyre own right of " Freedom Of Speech ". yet, they want some other Americans right to do the same 
thing taken away ? thats quite frankly garbage right there if you ask me. also, i think another important thing to

Posted by Archetype

Hahaha silly people EVERYONE knows that Captain America is Libertarian!

Posted by Art Penwright

I don't see what the big deal is. Ed Brubaker wanted to show an anti-tax and Federal Government protest  in the issue in order to set  the theme, and keep his story grounded in a sense of realism (well, it's a superhero comic, so realistic to an extent). The one, little-bitty, panel that showed the tea-party did exactly that, and they weren't portrayed as anything other than protesters. Also, from a story point of view it makes sense for The Falcon to make a race crack. I mean he's a black New Yorker, statistically he's not going to agree with these guys. 
  
Anyhow, all of that was just to help set up an action arc about battling militias and NOT the Tea Party. Brubaker brought real life political events into play a couple of years ago during the Red Skull's major power play. The Skull was sharing a body with Aleksander Lukin, a Russian business man, who used his Corporation to launch an economic attack on America during the whole mortgage crisis. It just helped to make the story feel more topical.

Posted by comicbufftoughstuff

ok yeah, I don't want politics in my comics, none what so ever. But in everything I've read the so-called "political agendas" always seem left wing. Okay maybe the Comic Book is just a liberal industry or something, but I can't recall ever seeing any jabs at the politics of Democrats. I remember John Ostrander's Batman: Seduction of the Gun, was just a big commentary on the gun control legislation back in 93. I'd like to see some examples of right-wing political opinion in a modern-age comic. Are there any? or has it always been to the left?

Edited by burr787

I would prefer if politics would stay out of comics, I don't really see why Captain America should be seen as a political either. Look at DC's shield, the first arc took place in the middle east and it didn't get preachy or political at all. It was equally balanced and honest without being insulting to America, the middle east, or anyone.
 
@comicbufftoughstuff said:

 I'd like to see some examples of right-wing political opinion in a modern-age comic. Are there any? or has it always been to the left? "
There was 'Liberterian for all' but it's an independent comic that nobody would take seriously.
Posted by greenenvy

There should be some politics, religion, history in a comic there and there because it makes it more realistic and educational so I still dont see the problem. I think comics should be like this because regular novels or regular literature shows this so why not comics.
Posted by drone.devil

who cares.
 
if a writer wants to share his nazi sympathies with mucho gusto, more power to him.  i don't care.  do you?

Posted by spartanmusashi
@CATMANEXE: Good point and great ending. I am an adult who likes Marvel, comicon is filled with adults who like comics, personally  if a good story gets political or religious I can deal with it. Funny how Captain America is getting big press when there is a big budget movie on the way. 
Posted by 4Essence

Hahaha! great vid, Babs! U did great
Posted by Harlekin

I read the issue in question and it had no effect on me one way or another, because last time I check, I have my own mind and determined that the only fictional character I would let effect my political views is named The Batman. 
 
We are thinking about starting are own party. There is no left or right wing only the Batwing.

Posted by CATMANEXE
@spartanmusashi: 
thanks. oddly in having read the very issue, there is no actual political stance directed at
the New American Tea Party. they are just shown in a reproduction of themselves as said in 
a photo just being there, which also diminishes from the NATP's claim i think as well since they
embellished in order to play the victim card. to me it would be no more different than Time Life
showing the actual photo i displayed above. i fail to see where the offense occurred, unless in
the case the slogan " Tea Bag Them Before They Tea Bag You " was copyrighted.
* this is all so very trope-worthy BTW.
Posted by The Devil Tiger
@burr787 said:
"I would prefer if politics would stay out of comics, I don't really see why Captain America should be seen as a political either. Look at DC's shield, the first arc took place in the middle east and it didn't get preachy or political at all. It was equally balanced and honest without being insulting to America, the middle east, or anyone.
 
@comicbufftoughstuff said:
 I'd like to see some examples of right-wing political opinion in a modern-age comic. Are there any? or has it always been to the left? "
There was 'Liberterian for all' but it's an independent comic that nobody would take seriously. "

@burr787:

Funny, because in europa, each time we see Captain America, some people take it seriously, others not, but all feel the political (And nationalistic...) vibes... 
 
X-men is political and social, or has a very strong subtext, JLA, The Autority and many other can be seen as political.,.
Posted by Illuminarch

I am a libertarian. Specifically, I'm an individualist anarchist. As I see the Tea Parties being commandeered as vehicles for neoconservatives and Republican party machine hacks, I have little sympathy for the organizations (as opposed to what their more liberty-oriented founders - actual conservatives and libertarians - intended them to be). And yet I almost put this issue away after that page. I only kept reading with the hope that 1950s Captain America would rip the unbelievably self-righteous heads off of Bucky-Cap and Falcon. 
 
BUCKY: What the hell is this?
FALCON: Some kind of protest really...
FALCON: ...Looks like some kind of Anti-Tax thing
FALCON: So I guess the whole "hate the Government" vibe around here isn't limited to the Watchdogs...
BUCKY: We're not in New York anymore, Sam.
 
You can't hear the scorn dripping from those comments?

No Buck, you big sissy, you're not in New York anymore. These people must actually have a memory. How about that whole hate the government vibe you and Falcon displayed while becoming outlaws and fighting the government during Civil War? 'Scuse me guys, but  isn't this the same government you were hiding from afterwards, the one that forcibly registered people just for having certain genes, locked people away in another dimension indefinitely, arrested your best buddy and mentor Steve Rogers and let him get killed, deputized a horde of murderous super-villains to enforce their unconstitutional laws, was completely infiltrated by Skrulls, and let their security organs be taken over by maniac Norman Osborn? Remember that government? 
 
No?
 
Oh, okay then. Nevermind. Please carry on with Ed Brubaker's smug, east coast big city left-wing status quo. To hell with continuity and making sense out of a fictional universe's plot conceits, we've got to take a few shots at a real-world political event that the author disfavors. Now who wants to talk about agendas?
 
And throughout this story arc, everyone from Nick Fury on down never passes up a chance to make sure that '50s Cap is "insane" and the undisputed bad guy. There's no gray-shading of his attitudes or motivations, he's just a violent neanderthal pining for a backwards time period that the faux-sophisticates writing the book have nothing but contempt for.   
 
Is it OK to put politics in comic books? Yeah, sure. I'm not even certain that it's possible to avoid politics entirely. But this? This was crap.

Posted by Phantom Patriot

aren't we allowed to say what we feel? does the 1st amendment not allow us this suddenly with comics?
 
fuck, i stand by brubaker's choice to write whatever he feels. its completely unfair for say comics can't be free minded and its embarrassing joe took it out for future reprints.
 
there's a reason this country has the freedoms it has and the worst part guys... it all happened in captain AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!  
 
tisk

Posted by simsey

politic s hav alway been part of comics imo u know cap beatin the crap outta red skull = america beating the germans  
 
wolverine(canda) vs omega red (russia)  no one liked russia during the cold war  
 
mutant vs humans  was basiclly a statement on racism in america  
 
know im not taken a shot at any nationality but i call it as i see it  
 
it would be easy to hate a villian if ur countries had real life conflicts wit the villian home land  ya know
Posted by IronSpidy-Rooney

I think politics in comics is a good idea because it gives a bit more realism to them just as long as they don't take a stab at certain events even so I don't think the sign in the picture was aimed at the American Tea Party Movement 
(great vid!!) 

Posted by MichaeltheFly

Politics has always been in comics, whether we are talking about, the American WW 2 Superheroes vs the axis powers, or the racism that was against mutants, Marvel shouldn't retreat any art, they should continue this, because it is more realistic this way and we know it, they know it, and everybody else needs to know this.

Edited by NightFang

People are way to up tight about this.

Posted by Illuminarch
@Phantom Patriot said:
" aren't we allowed to say what we feel? does the 1st amendment not allow us this suddenly with comics?  fuck, i stand by brubaker's choice to write whatever he feels. its completely unfair for say comics can't be free minded and its embarrassing joe took it out for future reprints.  there's a reason this country has the freedoms it has and the worst part guys... it all happened in captain AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!    tisk "
Marvel's editorial decisions have nothing to do with the First Amendment or any other part of the Constitution. The Constitution was not written to bind Marvel Comics, but the central government.
Edited by No_Name_

There's a difference between first amendment rights and writers taking the liberty of using iconic mainstream characters as a venue for their personal political opinions.

Posted by MKF30

Marvel is retarded for doing this....just going to bring controversy and like most here say, comics are NOT about politics....dumb libs lol...always trying to get their political bs out using Cap A...weak.  
 
News Flash Marvel, NOBODY CARES! lol 
 

Edited by MKF30

If you're addressing me, I think every party has their own agenda but what I hate about the mainstream media is that they're pro liberal(with the exception of FOX) you look at the other stations, CNN, MSNBC, UPN, ABC etc they're all pro liberal.... and it seems in cases like this now, this guy feels the need to try to "express" his political views via a comic using Cap A as a gimmick to do it...lame. 
 
This is why IMO I like DC better because at least they have characters that don't obsess over politics. GA and BC are one of the few exceptions(but aren't that big of characters like Cap A or DC with Supes, Bats) they don't take sides. I mean Superman, Batman etc don't take sides, they just do whats right and try not to get political..  
 
I don't like politics in comics, TV shows or anything that's made for strickly entertainment purposes...and as an Independant I see it far more from liberals then conservatives, that's all I'm saying..
 

Posted by Illuminarch
@Babs said:
" There's a difference between first amendment rights and writers taking the liberty of using iconic mainstream characters as a venue for their personal political opinions. "
What do you mean by this? Are you suggesting that the first amendment would not protect such writers from government censorship? My point was only that a writer working for Marvel cannot say their freedom of speech is being violated by Marvel Comics, since the Constitution does not constrain anyone but the federal government in that regard.
 
If you're saying that they shouldn't do that, well, I could go either way about that. i certainly don't like the way Brubaker has Bucky and Falcon leaning here, nor the leftist political undertones of, say, Tony Isabella's ridiculous "liberty's Torch" novel, but I'd be hard pressed to argue that they should never do this. Some characters are inherently political, even from the beginning.
Posted by Aerik

I want pizza. That's about the extent of my agenda.

Posted by _brandon

@Illuminarch 
 
doesnt brubaker live in seattle?
Posted by Art Penwright
@MKF30 said:
 "

If you're addressing me, I think every party has their own agenda but what I hate about the mainstream media is that they're pro liberal(with the exception of FOX) you look at the other stations, CNN, MSNBC, UPN, ABC etc they're all pro liberal.... and it seems in cases like this now, this guy feels the need to try to "express" his political views via a comic using Cap A as a gimmick to do it...lame. 
 
This is why IMO I like DC better because at least they have characters that don't obsess over politics. GA and BC are one of the few exceptions(but aren't that big of characters like Cap A or DC with Supes, Bats) they don't take sides. I mean Superman, Batman etc don't take sides, they just do whats right and try not to get political..  
 
I don't like politics in comics, TV shows or anything that's made for strickly entertainment purposes...and as an Independant I see it far more from liberals then conservatives, that's all I'm saying..
 

"
Dude, you're damn straight about TV-channels having an agenda, and that's to make money. Fox is making cash by being openly right-wing, and suggesting everyone else is openly liberal. MSNBC is making money off being an openly liberal version of FOX. You have to remember that, just like comics, this is the entertainment industry, politics, at best, come second to profits.
Edited by No_Name_
@Illuminarch: I wasn't attacking you, and I wasn't stating an opinion either. I was just distinguishing between two separate issues. 
 
 

There's a difference between first amendment rights and writers taking the liberty of using iconic mainstream characters as a venue for their personal political opinions.

Posted by Illuminarch
@_brandon said:
" @Illuminarch  doesnt brubaker live in seattle? "
Is that so? Well then west coast big city left-wing status quo is even worse! :)
Posted by Art Penwright
@Babs said:
" There's a difference between first amendment rights and writers taking the liberty of using iconic mainstream characters as a venue for their personal political opinions. "
It's touchy ground to bring politics into anything, but when it comes down to it Captain America is a political figure. I mean he started off punching Hitler in the face, and if he represents America any story involving him going to another country, or fighting in a war could have some political slant to it. Besides if Brubaker wants to keep a political tone to his stories, like he has with the Red Skull, Lukin arc, then he's going to brush up against controversy.  
I don't think he should avoid that, he didn't really say anything all that offensive or out of character for his characters. If Captain America is going to continue to be an interesting character then he has to wrestle with the nature of his charge, being a symbol of America, and that means being involved, prehaps in minor ways, with real American issues.
Posted by Roninidas

I always liked to think Captain America was above political ramblings in Washington.  I have a quote I would like to share.  I always look for Captain America quotes because I am a huge fan, but this one I think kind of fits this topic.  A General Questioned Captain America's Loyalty Cap replied, 
 
I'm loyal to nothing, General.. except the Dream.      
 
America is bigger than both the Democrats and Republicans and Tea Parties and everything else.  America encompasses all and what I love about Captain America is he is that symbol.  He is America.  He doesn't represent the Left or the Right, he represents the ability to have the left and the right.   
 
I like politics and religion in comics, but taking a character like Cap which for the better part of the century has always been about the Country as a Whole and having him pick a side is not necessarily wrong, but totally out of character for him.    
 
Everyone should remember he is loyal to the Dream! 
 
One more Cap quote that I like,   

"I have worked and fought all my life for the growth and advancement of the American Dream... we must all live in the real world... but it is the dream... the hope... that that makes the reality worth living... you need but to look within yourselves to find the people you need to keep this nation strong... and, God willing, to help make the dream come true!" --Captain America

    
Posted by Branagin77

LOL....Wow look at those nostrils flare!!!! It's sooo Awesome.

Posted by simsey


dc comics  doen't do politics lex luthor was prez of america in public enemies?

 

 i think its good to push real issues in to comics its 2010  were not watching the brady bunch no more sh!t gets real comics can always do with abit of edge to em 
 
some people are gon love it others will hate it but it makes u think  its an evolution of the world in general dealin wit real issues right or wrong is better for everyone coz it makes u hav an opinion

Posted by No_Name_
@Art Penwright: You can argue that he made the Tea Party the villains in the book by having them be the organization which Cap and Falcon had to "infiltritate." So, while he didn't directly say anything incriminating; he did put them in a negative light by implicating them as the villains in the comic. 
 
I'm not taking sides, I'm just making an observation, mind you.
Posted by A Boy Named Art

Here's the thing: Marvel backtracks like crazy when Fox News raises a fuss, but whenever readers raise questions - be it about this issue, or about the use of the term "retard" in Fantastic Four, or the implied sexual assault by the Chameleon in Spider-Man, the company blithely dismisses it.

Posted by jamesewelch

 
I don't really see what the big deal is. As comic book fans, we shouldn't be fostering this dialogue to keep giving political talking heads more things to bash comic books. They don't read comic books, so they don't understand comic books. 
 
Comic books, whether most admit it or not, is an art. Not everyone agrees on what is good or bad art, but whenever art reflects something that someone is doing and that they are embarrassed by it (like holding a mirror up to the activitists), of course, they'll be angry. I've seen much worse Tea Party signs, statements, etc. on the news and blogosphere. I don't know what they are anger about. It's an accurate depiction and it doesn't even show the worse of the movement. Although, I'd prefer that it wasn't there, but it's still not saying anything that everyone doesn't already know. 
 
Captain America is the most recognized political super-hero in the Marvel universe (and maybe in our world, too). Even if he doesn't take sides, the icon represents Nationalism (as Babs stated) and nationalism itself is politics. Some may even say nationalism is borderline fascism, but that's for political-science grads and talking heads to talk about on talk shows. And I'm talking about real definitions here (at least look them up using wikipedia), not what someone might believe are the definitions of the "isms".
 
I didn't like it the insinuations posed in this comic, but it happens. Does anyone complain when comics poke fun at other groups? No. I just reread Kick Ass the other day and I'm sure everyone remembers the dialogue between Bid Daddy and Hit-Girl about the definition of a liberal. That comment insulted a lot more people who consider themselves a "liberal" (about 30-40% of US) instead of a unnamed, fictional anti-tax movement who appears to mirror the Tea Party members (who are an even smaller minority of conservatives).   
 
Did it hurt the story? No. Did it hurt Marvel? No. Did anyone really care about this until it got blow out of proportion? No. Did it make for a good story on Fox News? Yes. Did people watch the news and learn that comics are bad? Yes. It's only one panel.
 
The question that most reasonable people will ask is: Are you forced to buy the game? No. Are you forced to buy Captain America comic? No. This is capitalism. If you don't like it, don't buy it.  Or better yet, if you did buy it, sell it on eBay for a profit.

Posted by Nova`Prime`
@A Boy Named Art: Because outside of the internet the fans don't have a soapbox to stand on and I am pretty sure the majority of Marvel shareholders aren't trolling around on these forums where as they watch Fox, CNN, and MSNBC. They didn't retract because a fan was upset, they retracted because Marvel itself was coming under attack and that hurts the bottom line with the shareholders.
Posted by HaloKing343

Sarah Palin is a brilliant politician who recieves no credit cuz she screwed up ONE interview. She's way smarter than the idiot president we've elected into office and don't get me started on our absolutely awful Speaker of the House. Being from Delaware, people always assume that I must like our Vice President too. Frankly all of our government's "Big Three" are complete morons who have no idea what they are doing. Obama is the smartest out of the bunch and he's still got  no idea what he's doing. That's why they keep taxing people and putting on more government regulations when in reality, the economy fixes itself out over time. They are tampering with a system that's already working. Hasn't anybody read Adam Smith? You'd think that people in the government would know a thing or two about how Capitalism works, but not these dumbasses. I don't think any of them have any idea how the economy works because they are doing all the wrong things and messing everything up. I swear, I would greatly prefer to see Sarah Palin in office than Obama, Biden or Pelosi. 
 
And don't get me started on Health Care.
Posted by Grendel

I don't understand why this story is getting all the heat.
 
Waid's Electro storyline from a few months ago was far more insulting to the Tea Party. And Brian Reed's fixation on Glen Beck makes Siege: Embedded a chore to read.

Posted by Roninidas

"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: The requirement that we stand up for what we believe ... no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world... No, you move." Not to pick sides and this has nothing to do with the Comic, but isn't this kind of what the Tea Partiers are doing? You can rip on them all you want. You can call them ignorant and racists, but if you get rid of all the negativity, becasue not all off them are like, are they not people that do not like what their government is doing and wanting their voice to be heard? Are they not doing exactly what the quotes says. This is a Captain America quote from the Amazing Spider-Man Civil War, I forget the exact issue number, but Peter Parker looks up and says something like, can I carry your books to school for you? LOL! That's a good quote. Anytime I have to make a tough decision I read that quote.

Posted by Dane

No, it isn't. Politics is the art of selling lies and I think a medium of story telling in it's own right should be above such things. Writers think their 'message' is so amazing, do they really think readers outside the US care about american politics? Civil War was a bush-era joke.
 
The only kind of allegory I'll accept is base satire :)

Edited by Roninidas

I want to hear what Steve Rogers has to say about all of this, LOL!  
 
This next statement will make alot of people laugh and a lot of people angry, but lets chalk it up to... 
 
Bucky's Communist Brainwashing and move on LOL!

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