What was the point of giving Eddie the Toxin symbiote?

#1 Posted by Degalon (737 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean...all this did was make...Red Venom. Toxin is nowhere to be found. Neither visually, nor in terms of the symbiote's personality. Methinks this is another case of the author not doing any research on a character before using them.

#2 Posted by kingjoeg (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@Degalon: That was a wasted opportunity. I'm sure if Rick Remender stayed on venom we would of gotten a story about Eddie as toxin. I really liked him as anti-venom.

#3 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Degalon: @kingjoeg: OMG! And here I thought I was practically the only one feeling that way on the Vine!

I totally agree, really a wasted opportunity. Not only did we lose the badass but underused Anti-Venom symbiote but Remender destroyed Eddie's recent character development and killed off Pat Mulligan!!!

#4 Posted by Degalon (737 posts) - - Show Bio

@hectorsquall: @kingjoeg:

Also, Toxin suddenly vulnerable to sonics and fire, when it was a big point that it NEVER was before,not to mention suddenly being weaker than Venom, when another big point was that Toxin is stronger than both Venom and Carnage combined, and losing the blue part of its appearance, and now being a mass of tendrils instead of the "melted blanket" appearance it had before, or...anything to signify that it is the Toxin symbiote, really. The only thing to give a hint that it is Toxin is people SAYING it is. Otherwise, its just Eddie with a Carnage symbiote, making Red Venom

#5 Edited by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Degalon: Yep, nearly everyone reading this story was so blinded by Remender's "awesomeness" that they failed to realize the butchering of these characters.

I wish a good writer had been given the chance to fix this mess but it seems that Cullen Bunn () will continue to write Eddie "Fake Toxin" Brock...

So yeah, I'm not really optimistic.

#6 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Degalon said:

Also, Toxin suddenly vulnerable to sonics and fire, when it was a big point that it NEVER was before

Toxin never encountered someone who used fire and sonics on him before.

We never saw him react to it. But of course he's weak against it. It's in the genes.

#7 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:

@Degalon said:

Also, Toxin suddenly vulnerable to sonics and fire, when it was a big point that it NEVER was before

Toxin never encountered someone who used fire and sonics on him before.

We never saw him react to it. But of course he's weak against it. It's in the genes.

Shouldn't he logically be more resistant though? After all Carnage IIRC doesn't give two craps about fire and can only be taken out by sonics.  
Even Toxin didn't inherit an immunity,  the logical progression of how symboites spawns seem to adapt leads me to think he should have better resistance than at least Venom. 
Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass.
#8 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

Also yes, giving Toxin to Brock was dumb because it seems to have been used to derail Brock's character completely.

#9 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

Shouldn't he logically be more resistant though? After all Carnage IIRC doesn't give two craps about fire and can only be taken out by sonics. Even Toxin didn't inherit an immunity, the logical progression of how symboites spawns seem to adapt leads me to think he should have better resistance than at least Venom. Or maybe I'm talking out of my ass.

No, you're right. He is more resistant. But that doesn't make him immune.

Think of it this way. Toxin is the 1000th of his genetic line (that was a major plot point in his origins (which was abandoned because the whole "I MUST TEACH YOU THE WAYS OF THE SYMBIOTE BEFORE YOU GO CRAZY" thing was kinda dumb, but it still stands)). Venom is the 998th, Carnage is 999th. Carnage is slightly more resistant to it than Venom is, but not at all by much. The same logic applies to Toxin. Slightly more resistant, but that's it.

And I don't think Carnage has ever actually encountered "fire", but I think he did get hit by a microwave blast once and I'm not sure but it might have hurt him? I think it was Maximum Carnage. I forget.

@Decoy Elite said:

Also yes, giving Toxin to Brock was dumb because it seems to have been used to derail Brock's character completely.

And I'm not seeing how this is out of character for Eddie.

Eddie as Anti-Venom hated Venom. He wanted to kill Venom, the symbiote. That hasn't changed.

Eddie turning into a symbiote hunter when he lost Anti-Venom also wasn't out of character. He gave up the ability to cure people (in one grand gesture of messiah-complex induced awesomeness), so he focused on what else he was good at.

And now Toxin's re-introduction has Eddie killing criminals... also not out of character, especially if bonding to Toxin has driven Eddie off the deep end and back into the Lethal Protector mindset. Which is clearly what happened.

Eddie wasn't really evolving into a hero or anything, so it's not "derailment." He was a self-righteous psycho who thought God himself turned him into a messiah, that's what Anti-Venom was. (Not that it wasn't awesome, but still.)

Eddie hasn't really derailed, because Eddie never changed (This was a big plot point in Anti-Venom: New Ways To Live.)

#10 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123: I can't right now get it out right now, but I think I remember the instance from Maxium Carnage that you're referring to. I'll check later, although IIRC they have Venom with fire around as well so who knows if it's legit. 
Good point on Brock, I completely blanked on the dudes he killed being criminals.  
#11 Posted by GRIM_DADDY (32 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti-venom was a way cooler character than toxin ever was,better look also. Toxin should have been given to flash, then he could be his own character not venom number what ever. Venom is evil and a good villin,use him as one not a good guy....venom should have been put on...KRAVEN THE HUNTER!

#12 Posted by Onemoreposter (3950 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't seen any of this Brock/Toxin combo yet. I liked Lethal Protector though. SOunds good.

#13 Posted by Degalon (737 posts) - - Show Bio

@onemoreposter:

You don't need to have seen it. Now Eddie Brock is Venom again, only he's Red now.

#14 Edited by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@degalon: man i wish they hadnt killed of Pat like what the heck he was actually really cool. I liked Pat Toxin. I dont even recognize the toxin now

#15 Posted by Crackdown (590 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't quote me on this (or do)

But I feel like giving Toxin to Eddie was a way to bring back the days of the Lethal Protector, while at the same time having Agent Venom being operational as Flash.

#16 Edited by w0nd (2913 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't quote me on this (or do)

But I feel like giving Toxin to Eddie was a way to bring back the days of the Lethal Protector, while at the same time having Agent Venom being operational as Flash.

after reading the stories with him it seems he could care less about protecting anyone. At least when he was venom he had a moral compass, now he causes danger to innocent and bad alike, which makes no sense. Toxin the actual symbiote, grew a personality, we saw things from his point of view, he wanted to learn to be good, he didn't want to be a monster, his dialogue between pat and himself was making that very clear. Then he merges with eddie, someone who didn't want to be a monster either, and then..............becomes a monster? wtf

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