I started to think of this the other day, it has been established by DC quite a few times that Dick Grayson was a better fighter than any of the other Robins, it has also been said (and proved) that Jason Todd beats Tim Drake and Batgirl (who gave training to both Tim and Spoiler) has said that Stephanie was a way better fighter than Tim.

Now if you consider with who Drake has trained and compare it to the training of the other Robins...this doesn't fit

Nightwing-Trained as a kid by Batman and later got extra training by Richard Dragon

Jason Todd-Batman

Spoiler-Batgirl, don't remember if someone else trained her

Tim-Lady Shiva, Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl and Azrael

By all means, Tim should be the best fighter out of all of the Robins, Dick being the only one that could have an oportunity to beat him.

Thoughts?

Being trained by the best doesn't really make you the best if your potential is limited. Especially if you limit yourself. I understand it that Tim is far better fitted for the detective side of the crime fighting than the actual fighting. If his focus is more geared towards the detective and sciences, it is just logical that his fighting ability would suffer as a result.

Well, I think it's one thing to have the knowledge, but it's a whole different thing being able to apply it. If it's a skill on demand situation (like most fights are) some might not be able to use all of their abilities for whatever reason (Experience, training, the situation, ect.)

I think the reason is because Tim is the smartest of the Robin to make up for his ability to not be the best fighter.

I have seen Tim get his a$$ handed to him but I have seen him pull a win outta his a$$. He is definitely good but I think it was in Hush that Batman said that Nightwing was just naturally talented.

jason todd has been said to be the worst robin [i read it some where ill try and find it] , tim drake is a good fighter he's beaten his future self twice he held nightwing to a stalemate in the resurrection of Ra's al ghul plus he's beaten countless villians on his own,

Training does not instantly make you a good fighter. What Jason and Stephanie lacked in intelligence and training they made up for with instincts and being naturally good.

Also, The Birds of Prey and Batman have trained Spoiler.

"jason todd has been said to be the worst robin [i read it some where ill try and find it] , tim drake is a good fighter he's beaten his future self twice he held nightwing to a stalemate in the resurrection of Ra's al ghul plus he's beaten countless villians on his own,"

DRAKE FOR PRESIDENT.

"jason todd has been said to be the worst robin [i read it some where ill try and find it] , tim drake is a good fighter he's beaten his future self twice he held nightwing to a stalemate in the resurrection of Ra's al ghul plus he's beaten countless villians on his own,"

• Beating his own future self doesn't mean anything when he wasn't shown in the entire story to have hand to hand skills and just talked smart and shot his enemies, something that he couldn't do to Tim because it would have been suicide
• Wrong, he didn't fight Nightwing to a standstill, he didn't even touch him untl when both of them were attacking I-ching and he jumped to avoid it, making the two of them hit each other. THat was a well thought fight in my opinion, Nightwing wouldn't attack Robin because he is trying to make him come back to his senses and Tim shouldn't be able to even touch Dick.

"blade hunter said:

"jason todd has been said to be the worst robin [i read it some where ill try and find it] , tim drake is a good fighter he's beaten his future self twice he held nightwing to a stalemate in the resurrection of Ra's al ghul plus he's beaten countless villians on his own,"

Jason Todd is the worst Robin because he liked to hurt people and he was not really a good kid, not because he was the worst fighter. He beat Tim in a fight anyway."

True. If Tim continued at the rate he is going, he would take Jason pretty easily as an adult. Jason was beaten by his alternate self in countdown pretty easily. His alternate self said he was weak.

"

True. If Tim continued at the rate he is going, he would take Jason pretty easily as an adult. Jason was beaten by his alternate self in countdown pretty easily. His alternate self said he was weak.

"

"

True. If Tim continued at the rate he is going, he would take Jason pretty easily as an adult. Jason was beaten by his alternate self in countdown pretty easily. His alternate self said he was weak.

"

I think he is already the best Robin if you consider everything.

"erik said:

"

True. If Tim continued at the rate he is going, he would take Jason pretty easily as an adult. Jason was beaten by his alternate self in countdown pretty easily. His alternate self said he was weak.

"

I think Drake will be the best Robin ever."

"Vance Astro said:

"erik said:

"

True. If Tim continued at the rate he is going, he would take Jason pretty easily as an adult. Jason was beaten by his alternate self in countdown pretty easily. His alternate self said he was weak.

"

I think Drake will be the best Robin ever."

"Dick Grayson had skills and abilities that no other Robin would ever have"-Batman"

Nighthunter said:

"Vance Astro said:

"erik said:

"

True. If Tim continued at the rate he is going, he would take Jason pretty easily as an adult. Jason was beaten by his alternate self in countdown pretty easily. His alternate self said he was weak.

"

I think Drake will be the best Robin ever."

"Dick Grayson had skills and abilities that no other Robin would ever have"-Batman"

I think Batman just meant physically, which is true. But Tim is the best Robin and easily the best detective.

True, but unless I'm reading too much in the solicits of January, Drake will become the new Nightwing

"True, but unless I'm reading too much in the solicits of January, Drake will become the new Nightwing"

"Nighthunter said:

"True, but unless I'm reading too much in the solicits of January, Drake will become the new Nightwing"

Then what will happen to Grayson?"

"Vance Astro said:

"Nighthunter said:

"True, but unless I'm reading too much in the solicits of January, Drake will become the new Nightwing"

Then what will happen to Grayson?"

Think of it, if there ain't a Batman what do you think could happen to Grayson?"

solicits show otherwise though

we are going kinda off topc though, if you want to keep the conversation let's go to the official batman discussion thread

Didn't Tim fight Jason to a stalemate in Batman R.I.P?

yeah, in the same comic in which Jason blew a car with guns....

"yeah, in the same comic in which Jason blew a car with guns...."

The others have more experience, I figure, but then again Tim in the latest comics has shown great improvement.

Cause he's supposed to use his head more and he doesn't have the natural characteristics the others did in fighting Richard is an acrobat and has been one since he was little and Jason was full of hate for the majority of his life. His hate an rage just fueled him more 

The way I see it:

Tim is the youngest behind Jason and Dick so it's only natural he wouldn't be the best fighter out of them.

How old is Cassandra Cain?

hmmm and how old is Cassandra Sandsmark? Didn't Tim almost date her?

"The way I see it:

Dick Grayson is the best acrobat.

Jason Todd is the best martial artist.

Tim Drake is the best detective.

"

"Tim is the youngest behind Jason and Dick so it's only natural he wouldn't be the best fighter out of them."

I personally disagree and believe that Tim has the potential to be better than Dick. He's got a lot less baggage. Dick's always fighting with a chip on his shoulder. Tim's a better detective than Dick will ever be.

"I personally disagree and believe that Tim has the potential to be better than Dick. He's got a lot less baggage. Dick's always fighting with a chip on his shoulder. Tim's a better detective than Dick will ever be.
"

I get the feeling sometimes that Tim doesn't enjoy the fisticuffs side of being a superhero the way that Dick was.  Remember, Tim didn't become Robin as a result of tragedy.  He got the job because he deduced Batman's secret identity.  Until the events of Identity Crisis, he never really had a personal reason for going into crimefighting.

I'd say Tim is also a better leader overall as well.  He was always at the head of Young Justice and quickly established himself even among the older Titans.

Did Jason not stalemate Dick in a fight as well as Green Arrow? And this is a Jason that based on the countdown run, has not explored his full potential as a fighter. 

I'd say Tim is also a better leader overall as well.  He was always at the head of Young Justice and quickly established himself even among the older Titans.
"

"Did Jason not stalemate Dick in a fight as well as Green Arrow? And this is a Jason that based on the countdown run, has not explored his full potential as a fighter. "

Personally I feel Tim has the weakest origin compared to the other Robins, which is the main thing I dislike about him.

"

In all honesty, Tim is a much better detective, and while he may not have the fighting chops, he is still learning. In fact, in the recent events that happened just before they shut down the Robin comic series, he again faced Jason Todd, and the both of them fought to almost a stand-still. He is still quite young, and he is fighting people who are older, and much more experienced than he is, so when he grows up a little more, I thnk we'll all see that Tim Drake will be better than Dick Grayson or Jason Todd.

Tim and Jason fought to a standstill?

I remember Tim barely beating Jason and it was after he had the help of Red Robin and that guy who shot Jason Todd (both who attacked by surprise)

If tim fought jason when he [jason] was robin, tim would win with no trouble, jason wasn't that good of a fighter when he was robin he was just brutal, it's only since jason has come back and got more training that he's become a good fighter.

Robin421 said:

"In all honesty, Tim is a much better detective, and while he may not have the fighting chops, he is still learning. In fact, in the recent events that happened just before they shut down the Robin comic series, he again faced Jason Todd, and the both of them fought to almost a stand-still. He is still quite young, and he is fighting people who are older, and much more experienced than he is, so when he grows up a little more, I thnk we'll all see that Tim Drake will be better than Dick Grayson or Jason Todd."

They each were given a special gift or aspect to the job that they excelled at. Dick was always flexible and capable of going with the flow and working as the perfect backup to batman, while still having great leadership capabilities. He applied his acrobatics to his fighting, making him great at manuevering and avoiding attacks while quickly countering.

Jason, while shortlived, was more of a street brawler in style and could put more force behind hi sattack. They were fairly straight forward attacks, but he was usually able to overwhelm his opponents with sheer power.

And Tim is smart, potentially more so than Batman himself. While he may not be the best, I think he normally holds himself back, preferring not to use violence to resolve matters, if you think about it. But, when he has been pushed to the breaking point, he has more than shown himself capable of taking on people that should normally have been far beyond his ability to take down. Using moments like Dick defeating him, or Jason beating him especially, don't often apply because he wouldn't really try as hard against them. Especially when he fought Jason, he was showing he was a better Robin by trying to find an alternative to fighting. So I truly believe that among the robins, while having different abilities and strengths, Tim was probably the best and most adaptive.