Tim Drake's incredible detective skills..........

#1 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

I find it interesting that the way Tim Drake found out Batman's identity with his uber detective skills is the same way some drunk, ex-criminal in the alleyway discovered Jason Todd was Robin and reported him, leading to Talia's taking Jason in...  
 
Tim saw Dick Grayson perform at the circus and later saw Nightwing do this move (a move that only he can do) and deduced that he was previously Robin and that Bruce was Batman. 
 
An unshaven, homeless, ex-criminal saw Jason defend himself with a move he saw Robin use against he himself (the criminal) back when he used to be in the criminal business, and deduced this was Robin.
 
This particular feat (which is talked about a lot) doesn't accent a natural intellect. They just seem like common sense, and it puts Tim's genius on an even playing field with a hobo's. 
 
Tim did state that a lot of people tried and failed to find out Batman's identity (due to Bruce's meticulous covering of his tracks), but it looks to me like Tim was in the right place at the right time more than a prodigous conclusion.
 
Tim later found the secret identities of other various superheroes boosting his detective cred, but eh...          

Dick was a master detective second only to Batman for a while, and this is what usurps Dick's skills? Dick has hacked into alien technology and solved nationwide criminal cases just sitting on the couch. Tim has a hundred or so failed cloning attempts under his belt, and some secret identity uncoverage here and there.
 
Tim needs better intellectual feats IMO, cuz this isn't cutting it for me. 
 
I do like Tim Drake, not bashing him at all, just need him to impress me with his brain rather than hear his reputation from everywhere with no real substance. 
 
Tis all.
  
Off my mind. 
 
*waits for Tim Drake fanboy retaliation*
 

#2 Posted by Tim_Drake4444 (1070 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll name a couple instances you didn't mention.  
 
Tim tracked down both Riddler and Captain Boomerang from the riddles directed towards Flash(Wally)
 
At the end of the Robin series "Search For A Hero" we saw just how smart Tim can be at his tactical and planning while trying to keep Gotham under control and taking down Anarky. 
 
Tim also found where Jason's Bat Cave was located. 
 
Tim taking out the whole LoA's network and ruining Ra's plans. 
 
That's just to name a few of his track record stats.

Online
#3 Posted by RedK (2521 posts) - - Show Bio

both Dick and Batman have said that Tim is more intellectual then them

#4 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

@RedK said:

"both Dick and Batman have said that Tim is more intellectual then them "


I know Nightwing has complimented Tim's detective skills over his own, and said "computers are your thing," and comments like that, but that's because writers are going in that direction. They wanted to build Tim up, so this is his arena. Tim's the genius of the Robin's; i just haven't seen him impress me with his mind. I'm perfectly cool with the direction, it does step on Dick's shoes a little bit, but as long as it's done in a way that's cool (and logical) i'm all for it.
 
@Tim_Drake4444
said:

"

I'll name a couple instances you didn't mention.  
 
Tim tracked down both Riddler and Captain Boomerang from the riddles directed towards Flash(Wally)
 
At the end of the Robin series "Search For A Hero" we saw just how smart Tim can be at his tactical and planning while trying to keep Gotham under control and taking down Anarky. 
 
Tim also found where Jason's Bat Cave was located. 
 
Tim taking out the whole LoA's network and ruining Ra's plans. 
 
That's just to name a few of his track record stats.

"


Taking down LOA, good feat. 
 
I'll check out that "Search for a Hero" arc you mentioned. Sometimes characterization throughout plot can have as much of an effect as a flashpoint victory. 
 
I know you're one of the bigger Tim fan's on here. He's a cool guy.
 
Got anything else for me?

#5 Posted by Grave Stone (20 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't forget he also tricked Lady Shiva in the Robin comic and poisoned her.   
 
:) 
#6 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Grave Stone said:
"Don't forget he also tricked Lady Shiva in the Robin comic and poisoned her.    :)  "

Haha!! Niceness.
#7 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37:  He created a portable emp in his staff that shuts off all electronics within a fifteen mile radius.  He discovered the identities of Captain Marvel, Wally West after the Spectre made everyone forget it, and the Huntress' identity.
#8 Edited by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:

" @velle37:  He created a portable emp in his staff that shuts off all electronics within a fifteen mile radius.  He discovered the identities of Captain Marvel, Wally West after the Spectre made everyone forget it, and the Huntress' identity. "


Now we're talking. Was this EMP his own design, or did he jjust install it? 
 
And do you have scans of this, i've never seen it, but it sounds pretty cool.
#9 Posted by karrob (4278 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:
" @velle37:  He created a portable emp in his staff that shuts off all electronics within a fifteen mile radius.  He discovered the identities of Captain Marvel, Wally West after the Spectre made everyone forget it, and the Huntress' identity. "
wow
#10 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37:  Yeah, I got scans.  In fact Robin 167 was the first robin issue I've ever read, but it seems I miss remembered the scene.  Here's one but I'm sure there's another issue with it.


#11 Posted by azangarov (8 posts) - - Show Bio

He also pulled off a nice bit of counter-intelligence in Red Robin #15 throwing off a couple people who thought they had figured out who he was.

#12 Edited by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, I finally got around to reading BFTC, and Vicki Vale uncovers Batman, Nightwing, batgirl, and Robin's secret identities......... 
 
Just from looking at body chemistry, scars, and putting two and two together........
 
I guess being  detective isn't what it used to be.......
#14 Posted by jasraj (4728 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim is a better detective than Dick

#15 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
@jasraj said:
"

Tim is a better detective than Dick

"

Meh........
#16 Posted by iLLituracy (13537 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like Tim gets lowballed a lot of the time when it comes to how smart I feel he SHOULD be compared to how he actually is portrayed.

#17 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
@iLLituracy said:
"I feel like Tim gets lowballed a lot of the time when it comes to how smart I feel he SHOULD be compared to how he actually is portrayed. "

Lol, in this thread i am expressing the opposite. 
 
He's lowballed on how he's portrayed as opposed to how smart everyone says he is.
 
#18 Posted by redrobin86 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Well you got to remember Tim figured out that Bruce was alive before anyone else. They all thought he was in denial and needed therapy when in fact he was so sure that Bruce was alive he left everyone behind and went on his search alone until Ra's got interested. So that says a lot right there about Tim. He got that same feeling he had as a child when he remembered seeing Dick perform the quadruple somersault with "The Flying Graysons" and then again as Robin. It may have started out as a gut feeling but then he went out and used his vast intellect to get proof which only he could have found without going in time like the other heroes did, cause when they found out that the remains they had of Bruce was in fact a clone they felt stupid about not believing Tim which is why he gets mad points for his detective skills. Even Ra's himself called him "Detective" (not once but twice) a name Ra's only held in high regard for Batman.

#19 Posted by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone on Comicvine watch The Wire. If so, let me use the following analogy for Dick and Tim's detective skills


Dick Grayson - Jimmy McNulty & Bunk Moreland

Tim Drake - Lester Freamon
#20 Posted by RedHoodJT (527 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Tim is a genius. Granted each writer will write him different. But if you think about it. All of the Titans have said that they miss Tim and his plans. They miss him as the leader and strategist for the team. Even Cassie has admitted to her wishing he would come back. And when everyone was trying to figure out who the "person in black" was with the super powers of various different Justice Leaguers. Tim knew and was working with Bruce to help "keep an eye" on the others in the Bat Family.

#21 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
@RedHoodJT said:
"I think that Tim is a genius. Granted each writer will write him different. But if you think about it. All of the Titans have said that they miss Tim and his plans. They miss him as the leader and strategist for the team. Even Cassie has admitted to her wishing he would come back. And when everyone was trying to figure out who the "person in black" was with the super powers of various different Justice Leaguers. Tim knew and was working with Bruce to help "keep an eye" on the others in the Bat Family. "

The previous incarnation Titans feel the same way about Dick......
#22 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

Kind of shows that calling a character a genius is one thing, but writing genius is beyond the scope of a lot of comic writers. I like it.

#23 Posted by cascadeking09 (6752 posts) - - Show Bio
@velle37 said:
"

I find it interesting that the way Tim Drake found out Batman's identity with his uber detective skills is the same way some drunk, ex-criminal in the alleyway discovered Jason Todd was Robin and reported him, leading to Talia's taking Jason in...  
 
Tim saw Dick Grayson perform at the circus and later saw Nightwing do this move (a move that only he can do) and deduced that he was previously Robin and that Bruce was Batman. 
 
An unshaven, homeless, ex-criminal saw Jason defend himself with a move he saw Robin use against he himself (the criminal) back when he used to be in the criminal business, and deduced this was Robin.
 
This particular feat (which is talked about a lot) doesn't accent a natural intellect. They just seem like common sense, and it puts Tim's genius on an even playing field with a hobo's. 
 
Tim did state that a lot of people tried and failed to find out Batman's identity (due to Bruce's meticulous covering of his tracks), but it looks to me like Tim was in the right place at the right time more than a prodigous conclusion.
 
Tim later found the secret identities of other various superheroes boosting his detective cred, but eh...          

Dick was a master detective second only to Batman for a while, and this is what usurps Dick's skills? Dick has hacked into alien technology and solved nationwide criminal cases just sitting on the couch. Tim has a hundred or so failed cloning attempts under his belt, and some secret identity uncoverage here and there.
 
Tim needs better intellectual feats IMO, cuz this isn't cutting it for me. 
 
I do like Tim Drake, not bashing him at all, just need him to impress me with his brain rather than hear his reputation from everywhere with no real substance. 
 
Tis all.
 

"
Just had to say that  those things were used more to show that Tim had natural ability when it came to putting clues together and figuring things out. This is a little kid thinking sort of like a detective and figuring somewhat obvious things out more so than someone using common sense and being called a genius for it. Dick and Bruce (who are both the best when it comes to this) just added to that talent and helped him become the best. I just had to say that.
#24 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Slinger said:
"Kind of shows that calling a character a genius is one thing, but writing genius is beyond the scope of a lot of comic writers. I like it. "

Yea, that's more of what I was saying.......
#25 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

He has potential

#26 Posted by saturnssailor (102 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know if it makes a difference, but Tim was only about 3 when he saw Dick do the quad. I can't remember anything from when I was three. That might make a difference; it might not. Just thought I'd mention it.

#27 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always thought of Dick as the plainclothes cop. More grounded. Tim I could see working with Oracle as easily as with Dick.

#28 Posted by BatWatch (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

@Amegashita: I'm trying to put together a Tim Drake omnibus of sorts. Could you tell me where he discovers Captain Marvel's secret identity?

#29 Edited by superbatprime (130 posts) - - Show Bio

Poor writing.

That is all.

It doesn't make any difference anyway, no matter how many examples of poor detective work you can find.

You can only berate the writers, not a fictional character.

What I'm saying is, if the official character description for Tim Drake says he is an incredible detective... then he is, no matter how many bad writers screw that aspect of his character over.

Tbh, we see this happen with a lot more characters than Tim.

They do it to Bruce all the time.

Lazy writing really, lack of research.

#30 Posted by htb106 (1641 posts) - - Show Bio

there is a difference because tim remembered seeing it and the hobo remembered it being used on him

#31 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12525 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't compare Vicki's discovery of the Bruces identity to Tim's. Vicki was a grown woman who had dated Bruce and known his family (Alfred, dick, Jason,etc) for YEARS without noticing anything. Tim had never even met Bruce before and was 9 years old when he discovered it.

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