Tim Drake Was Robin

Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

If you haven't heard, Scott Lobdell is attempting to reboot Tim Drake's origin a whole year into an already pre-existing reboot. In Batman #1, Tim Drake is listed in the Bat-Computer as a former Robin. In Teen Titans #1 (written by Scott Lobdell himself), Tim Drake is seen looking at a photograph of himself as Robin with Batman. In Batman and Robin #10, Bruce, Dick, Jason, and Damian, all address Tim as a former Robin. But in the upcoming Teen Titans #0, Scott Lobdell is rebooting Tim's origin to make it that he was never a Robin but instead went straight to being Red Robin... (also he was in the olympics or something...)

If you don't want this to happen, help fight this. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/timdrakewasrobin/

If Stephanie Brown can come back, then maybe we can do something about this too.

Also, check out this video where I talk more about it.

#1 Posted by Renchamp (2998 posts) - - Show Bio

You realize that the issue is already finished and about ready for print, right? I'm not sure the petition will do much. My nay-saying is over.

Moderator Online
#2 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@Renchamp: I do understand that and there is a very small chance of a delay on printing and a quick re-write but the whole thing is to prove a point to DC that they need to step in and stop letting writers take liberties with characters that are so well established and changing it to the point of mass confusion.

#3 Posted by Vance Astro (91406 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim is my favorite Robin, but it doesn't matter what they retcon...he will always be that. We will always remember that he WAS Robin. They can change his history but they can't erase our memories.

Moderator
#4 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: It'd be one thing if they had it this way from the beginning of the New 52, but to change it one year into after having several comics contradict this, is a whole other thing. That is why there is a petition.

#5 Posted by TDK_1997 (15075 posts) - - Show Bio

That was what I was wondering.How would he do it when three times it was mentioned that Tim was a Robin.

#6 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997: Exactly. We don't need someone retconning a reboot. It makes no sense. Sign the petition.

#7 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

Let them reboot, revamp, relaunch, revisit...honestly, they don't care about their readers at all and obviously, I don't care about their company. I've stopped buying DC comics a long time ago, cause of this attitude. Snyder "forced" me to buy the new Batman stories, since he has done an amazing job. Apart from that, I attempted to read some other comics from the New52. Don't know if it's just me, the majority is unreadable. And you know how it goes. What you read, can not be unread...

#8 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997: He will apply some of this material named "Idon'tgiveaf@!kaboutreadersespeciallyolderones" and the job is done.

#9 Posted by jrock85 (2850 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Tim is my favorite Robin, but it doesn't matter what they retcon...he will always be that. We will always remember that he WAS Robin. They can change his history but they can't erase our memories.
#10 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Tim is my favorite Robin, but it doesn't matter what they retcon...he will always be that. We will always remember that he WAS Robin. They can change his history but they can't erase our memories.

Beautiful post!

#11 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

He'll always be a Robin to me no matter what the New 52 says.

#12 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

I had some thoughts on this over in my pet Tim Drake thread.

So according to Lobdell, they're doubling down on Red Robin by saying that it was the only moniker Tim ever used. Now, I'm not taking this the way some others are that this means Tim "was never a Robin," (even though that's how Lobdell phrased it) because clearly he was considering that Bruce and Damian call him "a Robin" or "one of the Robins" frequently, but this could potentially solve some of the complaints I had:

  • Does this mean Tim was the ONLY "Red Robin"? At least that would make it unique.
  • Does this mean no villains ever wore the mantle of "Red Robin"? At least that resolves the issue of why he's still wearing it as a hero (instead of as a faux-assassin), but it also kinda kills the only interesting thing about the mantle.

However, it also raises another complaint:

  • Doesn't this mean that Tim never "graduated" from his role as Robin? That there are essentially two Robins simultaneously? Isn't that, I dunno, totally stupid? This reinforces the problem that "Red Robin" was too similar to "Robin". Give him his own thing.

Also, it does nothing to resolve my other complaints. No matter what you do with continuity, Red Robin will still sound stupid and remind me of a chain of overpriced burger joints.

So basically I'm ignoring it and saying the "Red Robin" counts as "Robin," even though it's ridiculous and totally unnecessary.

#13 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

A noble but futile effort my friend

#14 Posted by sj_esposito (429 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys, please--PLEASE!--if you do not like what Lobdell is doing with Tim, stop buying Titans! Just stop buying it, plain and simple. You want to see change for the better? You want Lobdell to stop f'ing around with these characters, then you need to show DC that the book sucks and stop buying it. Buying the book and complaining about it online is only making the problem worse!

#15 Posted by danhimself (22714 posts) - - Show Bio

stop blaming Lobdell....it's pretty clear that editorial are the ones making these decisions not the writers

#16 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@sEsposito7: I'm okay with the new version of Teen Titans. I'm just not okay with the development on Tim Drake. There is a big difference. And one of the main problems is that no matter how much people want to protest, they're still going to pick up #0 just to see how he does it, which does not help the case at all.

@danhimself: Even so, the point is to show DC that people care enough about a certain character to keep anyone from making a drastic change like that.

#17 Posted by sj_esposito (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheMess1428: I suppose that the situation is complicated because it's a team book, but my statement stands (and is in agreement with the second portion of what you said): do not buy a book that you are not happy with direction in which the writer is taking it. Not even to 'see how it goes', because that's the damn trap.

You think DC cares if fans aren't happy with the direction Lobdell is taking Tim? They do not. What they do care about is that Lobdell is drawing strong sales numbers for the book, which are perpetuated, in part, by people who hate the book, hate the way Tim is being written (or any other character or team), and yet buy the book every month anyway.

I'm not happy with a great majority of the books from the New 52--I've blogged about it before, so I won't go into why here--such that my current monthly pull list consists of Batman, Batman and Robin, Nightwing, Wonder Woman, & Justice League Dark. Would I like to be reading more titles? Yup. But I'm not willing to spend my money on a book that I don't like, no matter who the character is or whatever tie that I may have to said book. To some extent, this is a problem of the hobby and is completely built into collecting comics--we are tied, for whatever, reason to certain characters or events, and we feel the need to buy any material featuring such characters or events, regardless of if we are enjoying the experience of reading them. This is a huge part of why Marvel has gotten away with a metric-crap-ton of everyone's money for totally shitty event books that seem to be currently the status quo of the Marvel publishing line.

They know that people will buy a huge event, even if the story sucks. They've waged psychological warfare on we, the fans, and they've pretty much won. It's time 'fight back'... Stop buying crap that you dislike--let me be more clear. Stop buying books that you read, month-in and month-out, and end up just complaining about afterward. Sorry for the diatribe, but these things must be said.

#18 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@sEsposito7: I really wish it were easier than that. There are so many aspects to the world of being a comic book fan. Myself, I am trying to be a Teen Titans collector. I have almost every issue of the last Teen Titans series and I want to collect the new one too. And even though I hated some of the storylines from the last series like the stuff Henderson and McKeever were writing, but I still collected it. I absolutely loved Geoff Johns' run and J.T. Krul's run. So collectors would have to have a missing book or two just to get good storylines back. And there are so many other things. I wish it were simple. I wish creators and editors would just listen when fans vocalize. They only like to hear the ones who say they like something and think that sales numbers are when they don't like something. Take DEATHSTROKE for instance. Kyle Higgins' run was a million times better than Rob Liefeld's current run but sales were low and Higgins got replaced. Instead of replacing the talent, they should have pushed the book more. Advertised more. If more people knew what Higgins was doing in that book, the sales would have been higher. But I never saw a Deathstroke ad. I never heard conversations online about what was going on in it. Nothing. And then we lost a great writer to some BS about Deathstroke fighting Lobo. Yes, that is what they advertised. Not Deathstroke finding out his dead son was alive again.

There is just so many aspects to the comic book industry that DC and Marvel don't take into account or don't utilize. Comics should be more about fans, rather than sales. What if the sales went up on comics but no fans showed up to conventions? Or the other way around? It just makes no sense anymore.

#19 Posted by sj_esposito (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheMess1428 said:

@sEsposito7: I really wish it were easier than that. There are so many aspects to the world of being a comic book fan. Myself, I am trying to be a Teen Titans collector. I have almost every issue of the last Teen Titans series and I want to collect the new one too. And even though I hated some of the storylines from the last series like the stuff Henderson and McKeever were writing, but I still collected it. I absolutely loved Geoff Johns' run and J.T. Krul's run. So collectors would have to have a missing book or two just to get good storylines back. And there are so many other things. I wish it were simple. I wish creators and editors would just listen when fans vocalize. They only like to hear the ones who say they like something and think that sales numbers are when they don't like something. Take DEATHSTROKE for instance. Kyle Higgins' run was a million times better than Rob Liefeld's current run but sales were low and Higgins got replaced. Instead of replacing the talent, they should have pushed the book more. Advertised more. If more people knew what Higgins was doing in that book, the sales would have been higher. But I never saw a Deathstroke ad. I never heard conversations online about what was going on in it. Nothing. And then we lost a great writer to some BS about Deathstroke fighting Lobo. Yes, that is what they advertised. Not Deathstroke finding out his dead son was alive again.

There is just so many aspects to the comic book industry that DC and Marvel don't take into account or don't utilize. Comics should be more about fans, rather than sales. What if the sales went up on comics but no fans showed up to conventions? Or the other way around? It just makes no sense anymore.

But, man.. Why do you have to collect issues if you don't enjoy them? Comics aren't worth anything anymore, except the story that's inside of them; and if we agree that the stories are utter crap, then why do you insist on buying them still? I think the problem here is that many fans do not value the story content in a comic more than the fact that said comic is part of their collection.

I wish creators and editors would write at the wimsy of my opinions, also. But they don't and they never will. Until then, fans need to show DC and Marvel what they do like--by paying for it--and what they do not like--by not buying the issues at all. We only get one way to vote, here, and it's with our money. I'll stop now before I veer off into a longer rant.

#20 Posted by The_Tree (7951 posts) - - Show Bio

@sEsposito7 said:

@TheMess1428: I suppose that the situation is complicated because it's a team book, but my statement stands (and is in agreement with the second portion of what you said): do not buy a book that you are not happy with direction in which the writer is taking it. Not even to 'see how it goes', because that's the damn trap.

You think DC cares if fans aren't happy with the direction Lobdell is taking Tim? They do not. What they do care about is that Lobdell is drawing strong sales numbers for the book, which are perpetuated, in part, by people who hate the book, hate the way Tim is being written (or any other character or team), and yet buy the book every month anyway.

I'm not happy with a great majority of the books from the New 52--I've blogged about it before, so I won't go into why here--such that my current monthly pull list consists of Batman, Batman and Robin, Nightwing, Wonder Woman, & Justice League Dark. Would I like to be reading more titles? Yup. But I'm not willing to spend my money on a book that I don't like, no matter who the character is or whatever tie that I may have to said book. To some extent, this is a problem of the hobby and is completely built into collecting comics--we are tied, for whatever, reason to certain characters or events, and we feel the need to buy any material featuring such characters or events, regardless of if we are enjoying the experience of reading them. This is a huge part of why Marvel has gotten away with a metric-crap-ton of everyone's money for totally shitty event books that seem to be currently the status quo of the Marvel publishing line.

They know that people will buy a huge event, even if the story sucks. They've waged psychological warfare on we, the fans, and they've pretty much won. It's time 'fight back'... Stop buying crap that you dislike--let me be more clear. Stop buying books that you read, month-in and month-out, and end up just complaining about afterward. Sorry for the diatribe, but these things must be said.

I really like what you have to say about the situation. I've actually taken to doing the same thing, I only wish more people would as well. Vote with your wallets.

Online
#21 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@sEsposito7: Some people don't collect for worth of a collection. I collect for the fact that I own them all. I can tell someone to read them to know what I know. It's not just to only own stories that were good but to own all the stories because they happened. And that is kinda what Lobdell is messing with. Changing how things happened. Of course there is always stuff like this happening but I've never seen something so extreme. It needs to stop before more things like this happen.

#22 Posted by soduh2 (866 posts) - - Show Bio

While this change bothers me too, I haven't bought any new 52 books outside of justice league and static.

#23 Posted by timelord786 (188 posts) - - Show Bio

That is stupid. Why the hell well they try to ruin the continuity like that?

#24 Posted by richardjohngrayson (445 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@richardjohngrayson: Wow, that is all kinds of stupid. Thanks for telling me.

#26 Posted by SupBatz (1849 posts) - - Show Bio

Chances are that no matter what Lobell does it will be re-retconned later. Making Tim never be Robin, on top of being unnecessary and contradictory of New 52 precedent, changes his entire origin and character and appears to be a universally hated decision. It's doubtful that Teen Titans issue 0 can be editted at this point but if people don't buy the series or hate it then it will be removed from continuity.

I make a prediction that Tim Drake's history will go back to the way it was Pre-New 52 within the next 2 years tops. It'll be as if Lobell never touched him. I make a similar prediction for Harley Quinn.

#27 Posted by neale7 (125 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion DC seems to have gone out of their way to alienate loyal fans who have grew up with these characters while catering for the newer people who have jumped over to DC in the past year. This whole thing with him not being robin just doesn’t make sense, and now he’s some sort of an almost olympic athlete. That takes something special away from Tim I think. Before Tim had to work hard to become the person that he is under batman. Now it seems bat’s has just honed his skills a bit in the athletic department. I think its funny that Tim has been referenced as being robin in the New52 a few times.

I also don’t see another reason how this can work. DC says that all the major events for Batman still happened, but Tim is Robin in all of the major stories that took place during the 90’s and 00’s, Knightfall, contagion, cataclysm/no man’s land, hush, under the red hood, Grant Morison’s run before Damien became robin. DC really hasn’t thought this though. All they care about is the $$$$$$, not the loyal fans.

I’m also not keen on what they’ve done to Harley with the bleached skin and an origin so much like the jokers now. It really is stupid.

All of the above is further proof that DC has no idea what is going on with their stories and continuity. It’s like the editors just say, “yeah that’s fine, the fans won’t care.”

I agree that if you don’t like what’s going on in a story, don’t buy it. Why just waste your money if your not happy and just moan about it after. I understand some people worry about not having every issue. It’s really not that bad. I still haven’t brought Batman: Inc, because I don’t agree with the stupid idea of Bruce saying that he fund batman. I don’t lose sleep over it.

#28 Posted by hoole100 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

in Teen Titans #0 Superboy is going to Retcon punch Tim out of the Robin persona.

Be Warned.

#29 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@hoole100 said:

in Teen Titans #0 Superboy is going to Retcon punch Tim out of the Robin persona.

Be Warned.

This made me laugh so hard. lol

#30 Posted by SupBatz (1849 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheMess1428 said:

@hoole100 said:

in Teen Titans #0 Superboy is going to Retcon punch Tim out of the Robin persona.

Be Warned.

This made me laugh so hard. lol

I think I would just rip the issue up right there xD (if I were going to buy it; which I don't plan to).

#31 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (35016 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand why pepole are moaning about this, it means nothing 

#32 Posted by thespideyguy (2650 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackArmor said:

A noble but futile effort my friend

Indeed

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.