Tim Drake better character then Bruce Wayne

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#1 Posted by deveir (3 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Tim drake as a character is better then Bruce Wayne LET ME REPEAT MY SELF, I THINK TIM DRAKE IS A BETTER CHARACTER THEN BRUCE WAYNE. I am not saying he is better batman or a super hero. i just think their is more character development to Tim then their is Bruce, therefore more of a story behind they guy in mask and why he does the things he does. Bruce fights crime cause his parents was killed and became batman because and once he became batman Bruce died sorta as a character. Bruce is his alias his life is batman. Where Tim also had his parents killed he never became so focus as being robin that his life as Tim seize to exsist. I don't no what do you guys think.

LET ME REPEAT I DON'T THINK HE IS A BETTER BATMAN/SUPER HERO

#2 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

Not funny. Nothing's funny anymore. The world just became gray a few scarce minutes ago. I wonder what happened...

#4 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: Whitney Houston died :|
#5 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

@ReVamp: Whitney Houston died :|

Flagged for ingenuity.

#6 Posted by TheWitchingHour (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

I see where you're coming from and I respect that man. I disagree and think that Bruce Wayne has had more character development over the years simply due to the frequency of his appearances. But Tim Drake is a great character and unlike Bruce he doesn't need to be depicted in a certain light (i.e. high strung sociopath) Bruce has a risk of being written off as an insane anti-hero (a good writer can overcome that, but it doesn't always happen) Tim has a lot of untapped potential. And in his appearances he's been extremely fun to follow. He's like Dick Grayson in a certain sense and I think his transition to Red Robin highlighted that fact. So I totally agree that Tim is a great character, I just don't think he's a better one than Bruce.

#7 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@deveir: well batman is pretty simple. gun shot, superhero, tim has more layers,(wanted to be robin, dad's death, makes Teen Titans etc) so i see what you mean

#8 Posted by nickthedevil (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

i like Jason Todd and Damian Wayne better than Dick Grayson and Tim Drake...

but i see your points... to each his own.

Online
#9 Posted by War Killer (20251 posts) - - Show Bio

If you comparing him to that Bruce Wayne persona then of course you're going to find Tim Drake more interesting or better; the whole point of the Bruce Wayne identity is to make people believe he's some selfish, arrogant, spoiled playboy that in no way on earth could every possible be The Batman. That's the point, so if you're comparing Tim Drake and all of his character development to THAT side of Bruce Wayne, then yes he's better.
 
But, if you're comparing him to the Bruce Wayne who sat alone in the dark while his parents lied there in front of him dead, who vowed on their graves that he would avenge their deaths, who has trained his body and mind to human perfection and uses every ounce of his knowledge, skills, ingenuity, and wealth to wage a war on crime. If you're comparing Tim Drake to THAT Bruce Wayne, then no he's nowhere close to being better because that is the man who became Batman.

#10 Edited by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

Mmm... I'm a huge Tim fan and of Bruce too soooo... It's a tie for me

#11 Edited by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think of the members of the Bat family as better or worse, there different characters and you can prefer whoever you want but none of them are bad.

#12 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one who doesn't really like Tim Drake...? I just never really found him all that interesting.

My favorite Robin was always Dick Grayson. I like Jason Todd, although he WAS a crappy Robin, I like the impact he had on the Batman mythos and I love him as Red Hood. But I utterly despise Damien Wayne, on that ground I stand.

Anyway, I kind of got off topic... I think that Dick Grayson and Jason Todd are both more interesting characters than Bruce Wayne, but certainly not Tim Drake.

#13 Posted by WildValentine (289 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce Wayne isn't meant to be an interesting character. In fact, in my opinion, Bruce Wayne doesn't exist. He IS Batman. When he doesn't have the suit on, he's not living.

#14 Posted by entropy_aegis (15338 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? all DC's been trying to do in the last few years is to make Tim a mini Bruce.

#15 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Hahaha, no. Just no. 

#16 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick, maybe, but not Tim.

#17 Posted by batmanary (798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

Dick, maybe, but not Tim.

Yeah. I think the whole sunny disposition, moving on past the role thing was covered pretty well by Grayson, and he is, in my eyes, destined to be Batman. And on more recent grounds Damian is going through quite a bit og character development, even in Batman and Robin. To me, Tim Drake's the one without any real defining trait. Dick Grayson was the cheerful, happy acrobat, Jason Todd was the badass, and Damian Wayne was the one raised by assassins, and is Bruce Wayne, basically, while Drake.....is bland. The only book I actually liked him in was Teen Titans before it got bad.

#18 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

#19 Posted by batmanary (798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

#20 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

It was my understanding that Tim was the best of the trade. He's also the tech-savvy one

#21 Posted by batmanary (798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

It was my understanding that Tim was the best of the trade. He's also the tech-savvy one

Again, being tech-savvy isn't really a personality-trait. That's what separates you from the pack. He's just basically a hand me down copy of Grayson.

#22 Edited by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

It was my understanding that Tim was the best of the trade. He's also the tech-savvy one

Again, being tech-savvy isn't really a personality-trait. That's what separates you from the pack. He's just basically a hand me down copy of Grayson.

Yeah Detective skill to Tim Drake is what Acrobatic skill is to Dick Grayson, making it more than a skill and more of a defining trait, if Dick can't do a cartwheel he's not Dick Grayson, if Tim isn't working on something detectivey its like if Dick went around kicking babies. And hes not a hand me down version of Grayson he just doesn't have a de facto disposition, He's not always going to be a belligerent like Damian, angry like Jason or happy like Dick he really more of changes with his situation but that doesn't make him bland, it just means that his whit and focus will be turned on something else in every different situation

#23 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5242 posts) - - Show Bio

I would have to say Bruce Wayne is a better character, but Tim Drake has the potential to be a better Batman.

#24 Posted by batmanary (798 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

It was my understanding that Tim was the best of the trade. He's also the tech-savvy one

Again, being tech-savvy isn't really a personality-trait. That's what separates you from the pack. He's just basically a hand me down copy of Grayson.

Yeah Detective skill to Tim Drake is what Acrobatic skill is to Dick Grayson, making it more than a skill and more of a defining trait, if Dick can't do a cartwheel he's not Dick Grayson, if Tim isn't working on something detectivey its like if Dick went around kicking babies. And hes not a hand me down version of Grayson he just doesn't have a de facto disposition, He's not always going to be a belligerent like Damian, angry like Jason or happy like Dick he really more of changes with his situation but that doesn't make him bland, it just means that his whit and focus will be turned on something else in every different situation

Here's the thing though. Dick's an optimist. He's always happy, he always has the quips on hand, and that's how he is, whereas Tim seems too...pliable to me. In every book, he seems quite different personality wise, going from Grayson-lite to brooding Dar Knight Jr at various times. Now of course this is my own opinion, I'm not saying that it has to be yours, too.

#25 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11738 posts) - - Show Bio

@deveir said:

I think Tim drake as a character is better than Bruce Wayne LET ME REPEAT MY SELF, I THINK TIM DRAKE IS A BETTER CHARACTER THAN BRUCE WAYNE. I am not saying he is better batman or a super hero. i just think there is more character development to Tim then there is Bruce, therefore more of a story behind they guy in mask and why he does the things he does. Bruce fights crime cause his parents were killed and became batman because and once he became batman Bruce died sorta as a character. Bruce is his alias his life is batman. Where Tim also had his parents killed he never became so focus as being robin that his life as Tim seize to exsist. I don't no what do you guys think.

LET ME REPEAT I DON'T THINK HE IS A BETTER BATMAN/SUPER HERO

I'm sorry for being a dick, but I had to correct the grammar.

I see your points though, however, they're two different people. Bruce was only eight when his parents were shot right in front of him thus causing major trama. Tim was an intelligent boy who had very loving parents, he aspired to become Robin, and then after he did, he saw Bruce as more of a father figure than his own. As sad as Tim was when his father was killed, I saw this as a secret relief for Drake since he could now be a full time member of the Wayne family. Both characters cant really be compared because of their backstory.

#26 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanary said:

@BlackArmor said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

It was my understanding that Tim was the best of the trade. He's also the tech-savvy one

Again, being tech-savvy isn't really a personality-trait. That's what separates you from the pack. He's just basically a hand me down copy of Grayson.

Yeah Detective skill to Tim Drake is what Acrobatic skill is to Dick Grayson, making it more than a skill and more of a defining trait, if Dick can't do a cartwheel he's not Dick Grayson, if Tim isn't working on something detectivey its like if Dick went around kicking babies. And hes not a hand me down version of Grayson he just doesn't have a de facto disposition, He's not always going to be a belligerent like Damian, angry like Jason or happy like Dick he really more of changes with his situation but that doesn't make him bland, it just means that his whit and focus will be turned on something else in every different situation

Here's the thing though. Dick's an optimist. He's always happy, he always has the quips on hand, and that's how he is, whereas Tim seems too...pliable to me. In every book, he seems quite different personality wise, going from Grayson-lite to brooding Dar Knight Jr at various times. Now of course this is my own opinion, I'm not saying that it has to be yours, too.

I actually think your right but I think it's because he has a good emotional range and I like his character because of it. I think it's good that when things are going his way he's smiling and happy and that when things are bad he's on par with Batman with brooding, it actually seems more real to me than Dick being happy at his core unless one of his loved ones dies. Of course I understand why Dick's fans like his constant optimism and I value that opinion. One personality trait that is constant with Tim though is his focus I don't think I've ever seen Tim just hanging out when he didn't have to because of school, he's always working. I don't know if you count this as a personality trait or not but I think it sets him apart from the others with Dick still being focused but less of a workaholic, and the other robins just not being quite there in that regard

#27 Posted by batmanary (798 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

@deveir said:

I think Tim drake as a character is better than Bruce Wayne LET ME REPEAT MY SELF, I THINK TIM DRAKE IS A BETTER CHARACTER THAN BRUCE WAYNE. I am not saying he is better batman or a super hero. i just think there is more character development to Tim then there is Bruce, therefore more of a story behind they guy in mask and why he does the things he does. Bruce fights crime cause his parents were killed and became batman because and once he became batman Bruce died sorta as a character. Bruce is his alias his life is batman. Where Tim also had his parents killed he never became so focus as being robin that his life as Tim seize to exsist. I don't no what do you guys think.

LET ME REPEAT I DON'T THINK HE IS A BETTER BATMAN/SUPER HERO

I'm sorry for being a dick, but I had to correct the grammar.

I see your points though, however, they're two different people. Bruce was only eight when his parents were shot right in front of him thus causing major trama. Tim was an intelligent boy who had very loving parents, he aspired to become Robin, and then after he did, he saw Bruce as more of a father figure than his own. As sad as Tim was when his father was killed, I saw this as a secret relief for Drake since he could now be a full time member of the Wayne family. Both characters cant really be compared because of their backstory.

Was that a pun? Please tell me that was a pun. :P

#28 Posted by batmanary (798 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@batmanary said:

@BlackArmor said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

It was my understanding that Tim was the best of the trade. He's also the tech-savvy one

Again, being tech-savvy isn't really a personality-trait. That's what separates you from the pack. He's just basically a hand me down copy of Grayson.

Yeah Detective skill to Tim Drake is what Acrobatic skill is to Dick Grayson, making it more than a skill and more of a defining trait, if Dick can't do a cartwheel he's not Dick Grayson, if Tim isn't working on something detectivey its like if Dick went around kicking babies. And hes not a hand me down version of Grayson he just doesn't have a de facto disposition, He's not always going to be a belligerent like Damian, angry like Jason or happy like Dick he really more of changes with his situation but that doesn't make him bland, it just means that his whit and focus will be turned on something else in every different situation

Here's the thing though. Dick's an optimist. He's always happy, he always has the quips on hand, and that's how he is, whereas Tim seems too...pliable to me. In every book, he seems quite different personality wise, going from Grayson-lite to brooding Dar Knight Jr at various times. Now of course this is my own opinion, I'm not saying that it has to be yours, too.

I actually think your right but I think it's because he has a good emotional range and I like his character because of it. I think it's good that when things are going his way he's smiling and happy and that when things are bad he's on par with Batman with brooding, it actually seems more real to me than Dick being happy at his core unless one of his loved ones dies. Of course I understand why Dick's fans like his constant optimism and I value that opinion. One personality trait that is constant with Tim though is his focus I don't think I've ever seen Tim just hanging out when he didn't have to because of school, he's always working. I don't know if you count this as a personality trait or not but I think it sets him apart from the others with Dick still being focused but less of a workaholic, and the other robins just not being quite there in that regard

To each his own, I guess. If this was a Batman vs Grayson thing, though, I'd definitely be team Grayson. With Drake, he's an okay character....not saying I hate him, but for me personally, he never seemed too interesting, having read him in TT and the Robin series as well. Did notice his attraction to mob girls, though.

#29 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11738 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanary: hahahaha didn't think anyone would catch that!

#30 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanary said:

To each his own, I guess. If this was a Batman vs Grayson thing, though, I'd definitely be team Grayson. With Drake, he's an okay character....not saying I hate him, but for me personally, he never seemed too interesting, having read him in TT and the Robin series as well. Did notice his attraction to mob girls, though.

Of all the aspects to pick out from a character that one is as good as any, LOL

#31 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

AYE. Stop being such a fanboy. Bruce Wayne as a character has more than 60 years of character growth and development under his belt. How about Drake? Also... IMO, Tim was the worst Robin.... that's why he was stuck with Red Robin... js.

#32 Posted by rogue_mar1e (19833 posts) - - Show Bio

lol, no.

#33 Posted by WildValentine (289 posts) - - Show Bio
@batmanary said:

@BlackArmor said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@batmanary: Tim's the detective.

So's Grayson. Being a detective isn't a defining trait, it's just a thing he's good at.

It was my understanding that Tim was the best of the trade. He's also the tech-savvy one

Again, being tech-savvy isn't really a personality-trait. That's what separates you from the pack. He's just basically a hand me down copy of Grayson.

Yeah Detective skill to Tim Drake is what Acrobatic skill is to Dick Grayson, making it more than a skill and more of a defining trait, if Dick can't do a cartwheel he's not Dick Grayson, if Tim isn't working on something detectivey its like if Dick went around kicking babies. And hes not a hand me down version of Grayson he just doesn't have a de facto disposition, He's not always going to be a belligerent like Damian, angry like Jason or happy like Dick he really more of changes with his situation but that doesn't make him bland, it just means that his whit and focus will be turned on something else in every different situation

Here's the thing though. Dick's an optimist. He's always happy, he always has the quips on hand, and that's how he is, whereas Tim seems too...pliable to me. In every book, he seems quite different personality wise, going from Grayson-lite to brooding Dar Knight Jr at various times. Now of course this is my own opinion, I'm not saying that it has to be yours, too.

Have you read any of Christopher Yost's Red Robin run? That really explores Tim's personality.
 
Saying Tim's a hand-me-down Grayson is a bit offensive. Grayson moved away from the batman world because he wanted to stand on his own, whereas Tim wants to be the World's Greatest Detective. Tim is literally the most likely to take the cowl because he best represents what Bruce is, but even more emotionally-detached. He cares about the legacy of Bruce so much that he's willing to go to any means necessary to preserve it, even teaming with Ra's al Ghul (but really, he didn't team with him, he used Ra's and that turned on him). Tim has all the qualities of Bruce, which is why Bruce bonds with him the most.
#34 Posted by Battlepig (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@deveir said:

I think Tim drake as a character is better then Bruce Wayne LET ME REPEAT MY SELF, I THINK TIM DRAKE IS A BETTER CHARACTER THEN BRUCE WAYNE. I am not saying he is better batman or a super hero. i just think their is more character development to Tim then their is Bruce, therefore more of a story behind they guy in mask and why he does the things he does. Bruce fights crime cause his parents was killed and became batman because and once he became batman Bruce died sorta as a character. Bruce is his alias his life is batman. Where Tim also had his parents killed he never became so focus as being robin that his life as Tim seize to exsist. I don't no what do you guys think.

LET ME REPEAT I DON'T THINK HE IS A BETTER BATMAN/SUPER HERO

Blimey, your grasp of the English language is atrocious. Now, I normally don't mention this since I have often discovered that people on the internet tend to be borderline-illiterate, but this is a really bad case. Regardless of what point you may want to make and regardless of whether or not you have a point, I just can't even begin to contemplate that you might be on to something if I have the mental image of a braindamaged monkey in front of a computer, hammering away on the keyboard with his head. And no amount of "LET THEIR THEN REPEATS ME!" will enforce anything you say if you look like this to your readers:

Now, I know you might "not well at Engelish are", but basically every browser and especially Word has a rather good spellcheck. Word even checks for grammar and it would have a field day with your statement. So why don't you try using that? Because I doubt that you have not been aware of your deficiency in all things writing when up until now. So you thought "I lets loose grammer of bad to people of comicvine their agree with I than becaus me write!" and hacked away on your monkey-keyboard. That's really not how you go about all things internet. At least pretend to make an effort.

#35 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce, Dick and Tim FTW!!!! Jason and Damian are okay.....

#36 Posted by soccersss (537 posts) - - Show Bio

@WildValentine said:

Bruce Wayne isn't meant to be an interesting character. In fact, in my opinion, Bruce Wayne doesn't exist. He IS Batman. When he doesn't have the suit on, he's not living.

Agreed. Tim Drake is a much more compelling character due to the fact that Bruce Wayne is a mask. The real Bruce Wayne died many years ago.

#37 Posted by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

#38 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

@ReVamp: Whitney Houston died :|

There's a separate thread for this in the Off-Topic forum. Please, get back on topic.

#39 Posted by Billy Batson (58069 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh no you didn't!
BB

#40 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

To each his own.

Moderator
#41 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer: Despite the fact that Tim was my Robin, I couldn't possibly agree more with you. Bruce = depth of character.

#42 Posted by BatWatch (2760 posts) - - Show Bio

It's hard to define who is a better character because what makes a good character could be debatable, but I would say Tim Drake has grown a lot more as a character since his first appearance than Bruce has in the same amount of time. Of course, part of this is simply because Tim is so young and inexperienced while Bruce is an adult whose been in the game a long time, but you still can't deny that Batman has been stuck on different levels of solitary brooding ever since Jason died.

#43 Posted by BatWatch (2760 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmanary: Regarding the detective bit, Tim is the only one other than Batman that Ra's Al Ghul has ever called detective. Also, Bruce said at one point that Tim is smarter than the rest of the Bat clan adjusting for age.

As far as the Tech savvy thing, I would say Bruce has him beat. Tim had a few inventions, but they were minor compared to his mentor. However, that seems to have changed since the reboot. Now Tim is Iron Man Jr.

#44 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha, NO!

#45 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim Drake's character is a lot like Bruce Wayne but with more friends. Do I think Tim is better than Bruce? No. But he is definitely my favorite of the Robins.

That being said I do not like the direction he has been going in the New 52, but his Red Robin solo run was, in my opinion, the best thing to come out of Bruce's "death" in the crisis.

#46 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: What issues do you have with his new 52 direction?

#47 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11013 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest i think Jason and Tim are by far th best Robin as characters.

But not as good as Bruce, i know it could be the fact all the years help him, but still Tim isnt that new, i mean is a deep character and my favorite Robin as Robin, i liked Jason and i love him when he became Red Hood.

But there is a reason why the Batmfamily is called the Batfamily, also the most amazing Batfamily character is Alfred, heck he is so epic i have no words for how epic he is.

#48 Posted by SmoothJammin (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

Having read Red Robin's ongoing in it's entirety, I can honestly say that it was the only title which never failed to entertain me every month, all the way up to the reboot. It beat out all of the other bat-books(of that particular era)in consistent quality. I don't think Tim's potential has been fully realized yet, but several writers have produced excellent stories involving him thus far. His characterization has evolved since the first appearance, and I'd argue that he can be seen as Batman lite, with shades of teenage angst and the chops to become Bruce's successor one day. If anyone deserves that right, it's certainly Tim. Comparatively, I think he's the plainest of his adopted siblings still. One day I might change my mind but until then I prefer to read about Bruce, Dick and Damian because they aren't infallible, each is flawed in their own way and it helps make the story for me. With Tim I don't get that. New 52 version on the other hand....

#49 Posted by luckydomino1 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

better than batman ..... ..................................................................... oh sorry i was reflecting on how false this statment is seriouly whats with tim drake fans thinking hes the best in the bat family maybe hell be better when dick grayson ,bruce and jason todd are retired

#50 Posted by Spectre108 (269 posts) - - Show Bio

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