The Final Red Robin Issue before the New DCU

#1 Posted by DEGRAAF (7896 posts) - - Show Bio

Overall i liked the story and found it to be a great read. And all though it bothered me at first that they play Dick and Damien off as nieve i do like that they had Bruce call him out only to have Tim stand up to Bruce about what had just happened. 
 
With Tim's little speech at the end he sounded much much darker then where he first started. The only part that cuaght me off guard and angered me a little is when he said something along the lines of "Gotham is now mine (or mine ofr the taking). Not Dick's. Not Bruces. Mine." 
 
I thought that was a little arrogent. I know he is supposed to equal or surpass Bruces detective and planning skills but really he thinks he could take Gotham for his own if he wanted to with Bruce, Dick, Damien, Cat Woman, and the Birds of Prey out there patrolling the streets? 
 
He even states he took in to account 1000 different scenerios that Captain Boomerang could have not ended up in this end result but he ended up there anyways. OK, so one villain you could barely say has some sort of complex thinking is one thing but facing off against Bruce Wayne (who we will even say is 2nd in planning and detective work to Tim), Dick Grayson who while it takes him a little while longer with his detective skills is still good and anticipating his villains next move during a fight, and then there is Damien and kid that hates him that has been trained and mastered the arts of a ninja including how to kill people (probably better than Dick and Tim Combined). Then we can throw Batgirl and Black bat in and he has absolutely no chance of taking Gotham for himself. 
 
Also one more thing. Where did he get teh money for his new Red Robin Lair and all his new toys and stuff expecting to keep it from Bruce. Something that size creates a big money trail. 
 
 
 
#2 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33969 posts) - - Show Bio

Aww I like the "Thanks for reading everybody" bit

#3 Posted by Final Arrow (24388 posts) - - Show Bio

:(

#4 Posted by danhimself (22631 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna miss this book...Tim's never been more bada$$ and worthy of his place in the Bat Family...I hope he doesn't lose to much of that in the relaunch....I think out of all the books disappearing in the relaunch I'm going to miss this and Secret Six the most

#5 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33969 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:
I'm gonna miss this book...Tim's never been more bada$$ and worthy of his place in the Bat Family...I hope he doesn't lose to much of that in the relaunch....I think out of all the books disappearing in the relaunch I'm going to miss this and Secret Six the most
Yea !00% the same and as he said if we want a Red Robin solo book again keep supporting the character so I will be getting all the TT books in the hope this comes true.
#6 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I allowed to cry? :(

#7 Posted by DEGRAAF (7896 posts) - - Show Bio

lol did any of you read what i tried to mamke this thread about or did you just read the scans?
#8 Posted by Tim_Drake4444 (1099 posts) - - Show Bio
@DEGRAAF said:

Overall i liked the story and found it to be a great read. And all though it bothered me at first that they play Dick and Damien off as nieve i do like that they had Bruce call him out only to have Tim stand up to Bruce about what had just happened. 
 
With Tim's little speech at the end he sounded much much darker then where he first started. The only part that cuaght me off guard and angered me a little is when he said something along the lines of "Gotham is now mine (or mine ofr the taking). Not Dick's. Not Bruces. Mine." 
 
I thought that was a little arrogent. I know he is supposed to equal or surpass Bruces detective and planning skills but really he thinks he could take Gotham for his own if he wanted to with Bruce, Dick, Damien, Cat Woman, and the Birds of Prey out there patrolling the streets? 
 
He even states he took in to account 1000 different scenerios that Captain Boomerang could have not ended up in this end result but he ended up there anyways. OK, so one villain you could barely say has some sort of complex thinking is one thing but facing off against Bruce Wayne (who we will even say is 2nd in planning and detective work to Tim), Dick Grayson who while it takes him a little while longer with his detective skills is still good and anticipating his villains next move during a fight, and then there is Damien and kid that hates him that has been trained and mastered the arts of a ninja including how to kill people (probably better than Dick and Tim Combined). Then we can throw Batgirl and Black bat in and he has absolutely no chance of taking Gotham for himself. 
 
Also one more thing. Where did he get teh money for his new Red Robin Lair and all his new toys and stuff expecting to keep it from Bruce. Something that size creates a big money trail. 
 
Bruce already knew about his new lair
#9 Posted by RedK (2521 posts) - - Show Bio

loved the part where he say that it's his city now

#10 Posted by mistersarcastic (324 posts) - - Show Bio

Who knew Tim could be turn out to be so dark and frighteningly calculating? He was pulling Boomerang's stringers indirectly, but definitely pulling, and had him making all the right choices that have led to his imminent death. Badass and scary. I'm just a little peeved after reading this last issue that he won't get the same justice or even be the same Tim/Red Robin in the new Teen Titans series. But I'm excited nonetheless. 

#11 Posted by DEGRAAF (7896 posts) - - Show Bio
@Tim_Drake4444
oh, ok. I just waasnt sure since at the end of issue 25 or whatever it was he walked in like it was brand new. I hope and wish that he still has the new lair in the DCnU
#12 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

The line, "…what will be my decision… ?" really annoyed me. Shouldn't it be "what will my decision be?" Or is this another "boldly go" vs "go boldly" thing where you use the less correct version for dramatic emphasis? 
 
Also, ellipsis abuse.

#13 Posted by DEGRAAF (7896 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg
no im pretty sure he said it correctly. 
 
Ellipsis abuse?
#14 Edited by redwingx (886 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hated when Tim said "this is my city now if i wanted it to be" and not Dick or Bruce. I find it funny because Dick or Bruce could take his precious city from him anyday if they wanted. Otherwise it was a pretty good issue. I'm gonna miss the Red Robin book.

#15 Posted by danhimself (22631 posts) - - Show Bio
@redwingx said:
I really hated when Tim said "this is my city now if i wanted it to be" and not Dick or Bruce. I find it funny because Dick or Bruce could take his precious city from him anyday if they wanted. Otherwise it was a pretty good issue. I'm gonna miss the Red Robin book.
Tim's greatest weapon is his mind...he was able to take Lady Shiva down without ever having to throw a punch...lets say that he actually went bad and decided to take Gotham for his own....the only person who could do anything about it would be Bruce....Dick would beat Tim in a fist fight but not in the brains department...Tim would have everything laid out before he ever faced Dick
#16 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@DEGRAAF said:
@fodigg: no im pretty sure he said it correctly.  Ellipsis abuse?
Overuse of ellipses annoys me because they're not supposed to be used for a pause anyway, but for omission.
#17 Posted by DEGRAAF (7896 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself
I would have to agree with that but if tim went rogue he would have to face the bat family with Bruce leading them. He would fail just because even with the good planning he would have to face his planning against Bruces and have to take out a handful of people who are all better fighters than he is (except for Steph). 
 
Also Dick has been able to learn from his time under Bruce that when Bruce thinks he knows exactly what Dick is going to do, dick does something different knowing that Bruce is expecting him to choose option A. 
 
The biggest problem for all of them (and Dick is probably the best at this) is that they are all good ad improvising.
#18 Posted by cascadeking09 (6762 posts) - - Show Bio

I was kind of disappointed, there was absolutely no mention of Lynx or anything.

#19 Posted by cascadeking09 (6762 posts) - - Show Bio

I also think some people are totally misunderstanding him saying it's his city now. Why am I reading so many comments that seem to think he said "I control gotham and nobody can take it from me. I'm so much better at protecting this city than Dick and Bruce." lol that's not at all what he meant.

#20 Posted by redwingx (886 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:
@redwingx said:
I really hated when Tim said "this is my city now if i wanted it to be" and not Dick or Bruce. I find it funny because Dick or Bruce could take his precious city from him anyday if they wanted. Otherwise it was a pretty good issue. I'm gonna miss the Red Robin book.
Tim's greatest weapon is his mind...he was able to take Lady Shiva down without ever having to throw a punch...lets say that he actually went bad and decided to take Gotham for his own....the only person who could do anything about it would be Bruce....Dick would beat Tim in a fist fight but not in the brains department...Tim would have everything laid out before he ever faced Dick
@danhimself: True that his mind is his weapon but i just dont see him taking down Dick.. This is Dick. He knows how Tim thinks. He knows what to expect. And Dick isn't as stupid as your making him out to be.  Detective skills won’t do much here, unless he wants to find out why his get his ass handed to him badly. Also experience is a major factor here which Dick has over Tim.
#21 Posted by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio
@redwingx said:
@danhimself said:
@redwingx said:
I really hated when Tim said "this is my city now if i wanted it to be" and not Dick or Bruce. I find it funny because Dick or Bruce could take his precious city from him anyday if they wanted. Otherwise it was a pretty good issue. I'm gonna miss the Red Robin book.
Tim's greatest weapon is his mind...he was able to take Lady Shiva down without ever having to throw a punch...lets say that he actually went bad and decided to take Gotham for his own....the only person who could do anything about it would be Bruce....Dick would beat Tim in a fist fight but not in the brains department...Tim would have everything laid out before he ever faced Dick
@danhimself: True that his mind is his weapon but i just dont see him taking down Dick.. This is Dick. He knows how Tim thinks. He knows what to expect. And Dick isn't as stupid as your making him out to be.  Detective skills won’t do much here, unless he wants to find out why his get his ass handed to him badly. Also experience is a major factor here which Dick has over Tim.


This.

 

The quote from redwingx reminds me of the time Dick (as Robin) successfully snuck up on Batman in the Batcave. Dick, although not nearly as skilled or intelligent as his mentor, was able to get the drop on him due to knowing his personality. Isn't that what Dick is known for, being the most accessible and understanding hero in the DCU? Would he not be able to parlay his nature into countering Tim's attacks based on understanding his habits?  
 
In terms of combat, the way Dick and Tim fight are directly tied to their habit of thinking; aside from Cassandra, Dick is the most intuitive fighter amongst the Bat-Ilk, able to fight off mobs and martial arts virtuosos with lightning-quick reactive thinking. Tim, as beautifully portrayed by Nicieza, devises battle plans in mere seconds taking on opponents. Dick has a more than fighting chance at beating Tim at his own game.   

And Tim is not a better detective/planner than Bruce.... at least not yet.

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