I hate the name "Red Robin"

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Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
In other posts around these forums I've been pretty blunt how much I think "Red Robin" is a stupid name.  I have a few reasons for this and wanted to rant about it.

Complaints

I don't like the "[color] [established character name]" naming convention. I don't like "Red Hulk," or "Red She-Hulk," or "Dark Avengers" or any of that stuff.  I make exceptions for characters who include a color as their full-and-unique name (e.g., Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Goldstar, Black Lightning, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Black Canary) and I can even stomach switching a color around for spinoff characters (e.g., White Canary, Red Arrow), but I hate just adding a color in front of it and acting like you're done. It seems lazy and it makes the character really seem like a second stringer. I much prefer giving them an original name (e.g., Arsenal, Oracle), letting them revive an old name from continuity (e.g., Nightwing), or letting them step fully into an established identity (e.g., Steph and Cass as Batgirl; Jason, Tim, and Damian as Robin; Wally and Bart as Flash).
 
I also don't like how the Red Robin mantle has been passed around from each Robin, starting as Dick's future costume in Kingdom Come, then becoming Jason's in Countdown, and then finally coming down to Tim's after he basically gets fired to make room for Damian. Now, I know it's not like Tim Drake has ever had a unique identity for himself to begin with—he's the third and arguably the fifth Robin if you count his "retirement" when Steph took over—but I feel like if you're going to "graduate" him, give him his own thing.
 
Finally—and this might be a local issue for me—I can't hear the name and not think of the chain of burger joints. I mean, not that I eat regularly at Red Robin, but come on now. When I see them all over the place reading it in the book is just jarring. 
 
 
In the revamp, we have an opportunity that is being missed to ditch the Red Robin thing. In fact, he seems to be embracing it full-bore by busting out the Falcon wings. Well, why not just call himself "Falcon?" Why not just call himself any number of "bird" names? But alas, they want the word "Robin" in there to keep it selling. Is this how they're handling the "lost" Bat-Family members now? Red Robin? Black Bat? Pink Oracle? Ocher Alfred? I just do not like it. So what are some other options? 
 

Options

I think there are a couple ways DC could handle this: 
 
  1. Stay with Red Robin: The "Red Robin" series was pretty well received, people are kind of used to the character name, and it has "Robin" in the title so people will know what to expect. Why rock the boat? I might be the only one who has a problem with this after all.
  2. Reintroduce an old moniker: AKA, the Nightwing solution. Flamebird would work, wouldn't it? Well, maybe not, but there has to be other old superhero names that Drake could pick up for himself. All the writers are into continuity porn so they might actually like the idea.
  3. Go name-less: The "Dr Hank Pym"-slash-"Jean Grey" solution, could Tim Drake support a book without being in costume? Probably not—even Oracle had a cool name and symbol—but it's a question worth asking.
  4. Swipe another franchise's moniker: The best example I can think of here is, well, Nightwing again because that was originally a Superman-franchise deal, but also I think of Renee Montoya as the new Question. Montoya was definitely a "Bat" supporting character, and still moves closely in those circles, hanging out with Batwoman and Huntress. But it worked, and worked really well. Tim Drake as "Richard Dragon?" Okay, bad example, but you get what I mean.
  5. Totally new name: Then my personal favorite, let him spread his wings (Note: I do not like the wings) and be his own unique character. This can be riskier, of course, but without a solo title anyway, you'd have time to introduce his new moniker in a team book and have it picked up later.
 
What does everyone else think? Am I the only one who dislikes "Red Robin?" What are some alternatives he could try? I'd love to see him mentoring under Ted Kord with an all-new persona. Let me know what you think!
#1 Posted by Dernman (14790 posts) - - Show Bio

1 Stay with Red Robin: I also don't like the name Red Robin but then again I don't like the name Robin either.
2 Reintroduce an old moniker: I wouldn't like Flamebird and it is already in use but I get your meaning.
3 Go name-less: Tim Drake could support a book but would be a bad idea for stories. He needs a secret Identity and he needs something for allies to call him in the field.
4 Swipe another franchise's moniker: This has possibilities. There are many names out there.
5 Totally new name: This is the best idea but then again when they have a history of coming up with names like The Black Bat and Batwing it could come out really bad.
He could end up Batboy.

#2 Posted by The Stegman (23242 posts) - - Show Bio

i don't care about color names...i just don't like that he reminds me of a burger every time i hear him....how bout Red Hawk? or Scarlet Robin? or just Crimson Robin

#3 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4692 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim Drake could swipe the Outsider's name, seeing as how Flashpoint is ending. He stands apart from the rest of the bat-family, in any case.

#4 Posted by Dernman (14790 posts) - - Show Bio
@sesquipedalophobe said:
Tim Drake could swipe the Outsider's name, seeing as how Flashpoint is ending. He stands apart from the rest of the bat-family, in any case.
I get why you would say that. 
It could be a nice name but would be odd being called Outsider when your the leader of a team.
Kinda like being called the Lone Wolf when your part of a pack.
#5 Edited by sesquipedalophobe (4692 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman: It worked for the Lone Rangers in the movie Airheads. But with its meaning, it could very well be the basis for newer superheroes outfitting themselves with more modernized philosophies.
#6 Posted by ARMIV2 (8306 posts) - - Show Bio

All I got to say is..."yum".
 
Oh, the character's name...yeah, I think it's alright...for the most part.

#7 Posted by Clue_ (454 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish Hank Pym remained nameless...

#8 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

i usually hate when heroes remain nameless,  
 
the only thing i hate about the current name is the Robin part.

#9 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12602 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg said:
In other posts around these forums I've been pretty blunt how much I think "Red Robin" is a stupid name.  I have a few reasons for this and wanted to rant about it.

Complaints

I don't like the "[color] [established character name]" naming convention. I don't like "Red Hulk," or "Red She-Hulk," or "Dark Avengers" or any of that stuff.  I make exceptions for characters who include a color as their full-and-unique name (e.g., Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Goldstar, Black Lightning, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Black Canary) and I can even stomach switching a color around for spinoff characters (e.g., White Canary, Red Arrow), but I hate just adding a color in front of it and acting like you're done. It seems lazy and it makes the character really seem like a second stringer. I much prefer giving them an original name (e.g., Arsenal, Oracle), letting them revive an old name from continuity (e.g., Nightwing), or letting them step fully into an established identity (e.g., Steph and Cass as Batgirl; Jason, Tim, and Damian as Robin; Wally and Bart as Flash).
 
I also don't like how the Red Robin mantle has been passed around from each Robin, starting as Dick's future costume in Kingdom Come, then becoming Jason's in Countdown, and then finally coming down to Tim's after he basically gets fired to make room for Damian. Now, I know it's not like Tim Drake has ever had a unique identity for himself to begin with—he's the third and arguably the fifth Robin if you count his "retirement" when Steph took over—but I feel like if you're going to "graduate" him, give him his own thing.
 
Finally—and this might be a local issue for me—I can't hear the name and not think of the chain of burger joints. I mean, not that I eat regularly at Red Robin, but come on now. When I see them all over the place reading it in the book is just jarring. 
 
 
In the revamp, we have an opportunity that is being missed to ditch the Red Robin thing. In fact, he seems to be embracing it full-bore by busting out the Falcon wings. Well, why not just call himself "Falcon?" Why not just call himself any number of "bird" names? But alas, they want the word "Robin" in there to keep it selling. Is this how they're handling the "lost" Bat-Family members now? Red Robin? Black Bat? Pink Oracle? Ocher Alfred? I just do not like it. So what are some other options? 
 

Options

I think there are a couple ways DC could handle this: 
 
  1. Stay with Red Robin: The "Red Robin" series was pretty well received, people are kind of used to the character name, and it has "Robin" in the title so people will know what to expect. Why rock the boat? I might be the only one who has a problem with this after all.
  2. Reintroduce an old moniker: AKA, the Nightwing solution. Flamebird would work, wouldn't it? Well, maybe not, but there has to be other old superhero names that Drake could pick up for himself. All the writers are into continuity porn so they might actually like the idea.
  3. Go name-less: The "Dr Hank Pym"-slash-"Jean Grey" solution, could Tim Drake support a book without being in costume? Probably not—even Oracle had a cool name and symbol—but it's a question worth asking.
  4. Swipe another franchise's moniker: The best example I can think of here is, well, Nightwing again because that was originally a Superman-franchise deal, but also I think of Renee Montoya as the new Question. Montoya was definitely a "Bat" supporting character, and still moves closely in those circles, hanging out with Batwoman and Huntress. But it worked, and worked really well. Tim Drake as "Richard Dragon?" Okay, bad example, but you get what I mean.
  5. Totally new name: Then my personal favorite, let him spread his wings (Note: I do not like the wings) and be his own unique character. This can be riskier, of course, but without a solo title anyway, you'd have time to introduce his new moniker in a team book and have it picked up later.
 
What does everyone else think? Am I the only one who dislikes "Red Robin?" What are some alternatives he could try? I'd love to see him mentoring under Ted Kord with an all-new persona. Let me know what you think!
well they cant use the name Falcon because its trademarked by Marvel i belive
#10 Edited by The_Tree (7247 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually like the name Red Robin, and don't have any problems with it.
If they were to ever change his name, the only thing I'd except would be Redwing.
It's too bad Ted Kord is dead/M.I.A.

#11 Posted by Dernman (14790 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked Ted Kord but not him as Blue Beetle. If he does come back he should take over Kord industries and have the current BB work for him.

#12 Posted by Hit_Monkey (873 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a fan of the name at all in just seems lazy and Tim deserves a newcode name not just his old one with a colour attached.  

#13 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
5 Totally new name: This is the best idea but then again when they have a history of coming up with names like The Black Bat and Batwing it could come out really bad. He could end up Batboy.
Yeah, that's the problem. In addition to the financial risk of re-launching a character/title with a name nobody recognizes, there's also the risk that the name will just suck. At least Red Robin just sucks. 
 
@The Stegman said:
i don't care about color names...i just don't like that he reminds me of a burger every time i hear him....how bout Red Hawk? or Scarlet Robin? or just Crimson Robin
If they'd done that to begin with I think I'd have been fine with it, but now it'd feel like too little too late. And it'd still be "[color] Robin," which would annoy me as per complaint 1. But it'd be better than nothing I guess. 
 
@Dernman said:
@sesquipedalophobe said:
Tim Drake could swipe the Outsider's name, seeing as how Flashpoint is ending. He stands apart from the rest of the bat-family, in any case.
I get why you would say that.  It could be a nice name but would be odd being called Outsider when your the leader of a team. Kinda like being called the Lone Wolf when your part of a pack.
It was originally a bat-family name with Alfred, and the Outsiders is associated with Batman. That said, I actually like the Outsider from Flashpoint and I hope he carries over like element lass. 
 
@Clue_ said:
I wish Hank Pym remained nameless...
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:
i usually hate when heroes remain nameless,   the only thing i hate about the current name is the Robin part.
I also prefer Pym without a superhero name. I mean, his power is he invents superheroes. That's pretty cool. And with "pym particles" he's kind of become a name in and of himself. I'd totally read a book just titled PYM, where every issue he invented a superhero and struck a woman or child in anger. 
 
@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

well they cant use the name Falcon because its trademarked by Marvel i belive
It wasn't a serious suggestion, but can you really trademark such a generic name? 
 
@The_Tree said:
I actually like the name Red Robin, and don't have any problems with it. If they were to ever change his name, the only thing I'd except would be Redwing. It's too bad Ted Kord is dead/M.I.A.
I wouldn't mind Redwing. It's a little like "nightwing," it's a little like "red robin," and it's an actual word so it's not too weird or outlandish. I'm sure there are those who would then just be reminded of the hockey team, but I don't watch hockey so whatever in my case. 
 
@Dernman said:
I liked Ted Kord but not him as Blue Beetle. If he does come back he should take over Kord industries and have the current BB work for him.
Yes. I wouldn't mind Tim going to work for Ted Kord, Checkmate, Shiva, or Ra's al Ghul if he needs a new place to hang his hat. 
 
@Hit_Monkey said:
Not a fan of the name at all in just seems lazy and Tim deserves a newcode name not just his old one with a colour attached.  
Amen. 
  
---
Thanks for all the replies! Keep em coming!
#14 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio
Red Robin's! yum!
#15 Edited by sesquipedalophobe (4692 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg: Perhaps you're right, but I really can't think of anything clever enough for a character like Tim. Although, I once had an idea for a character called the Pedant. He's a human encyclopedia who uses his fists along with the detective work.
#16 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

You know, I just looked at Tim's page and one of his aliases is listed as "Redbird." When was he called "Redbird?" I wouldn't mind that. It'd be a simple, small change and it would fix all my complaints. Also, he could say he was switching because he was done trying to be the "edgier, bad Robin" or whatever. 
 
 
edit: some other names I wouldn't mind him taking over: 

  •  Ranger (or Dark Ranger but that also makes me iffy)
  • Onyx (he's chummed around with a lot of assassins and was trained by Shiva, why not?)
  • Lynx (another Robin character he could take over)
  • Cavalier (because who doesn't look good with a rapier?)
  • Spoiler (it's only fair; she took Robin from him for a while)
  • Gray Ghost (the original char from the Batman animated series was awesome and the new Batgirl villain is unworthy)
#17 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@sesquipedalophobe said:
@fodigg: Perhaps you're right, but I really can't think of anything clever enough for a character like Tim. Although, I once had an idea for a character called the Pedant. He's a human encyclopedia who uses his fists along with the detective work.
They could just call him "The Detective," what Ra's calls Batman.
#18 Edited by sesquipedalophobe (4692 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg: True, but when I think about it the Question comes to mind. And yes, god yes, to the Gray Ghost.
#19 Posted by Dernman (14790 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg said:
  • Spoiler (it's only fair; she took Robin from him for a while
From what I here she is going back to using the name Spoiler.
It might have fit him considering they are making a point of calling the new Red Robin a blogger.
#20 Posted by TheRedRobin (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow people be hating.
#21 Posted by TheRedRobin (226 posts) - - Show Bio

It's a little awkward seeing as my name is TheRedRobin
#22 Posted by The_Tree (7247 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg said:
You know, I just looked at Tim's page and one of his aliases is listed as "Redbird." When was he called "Redbird?" I wouldn't mind that. It'd be a simple, small change and it would fix all my complaints. Also, he could say he was switching because he was done trying to be the "edgier, bad Robin" or whatever. 
 
If I'm not mistaken, I think he's called Redbird when he's chatting with Anarky online. I think Anarky goes by Moneyspider and Tim goes by Redbird.
#23 Posted by NoirAmastu (5 posts) - - Show Bio

RedBird would be cool  in replace ment of the burger joint name, but seeing as the comic is already well established they may have felt it would be in bad taste to change his name now just because they can and someone would just find a reason to hate that too anyway. Also Redwing wouldn't work. same problem as before just less obvious. 

#24 Edited by Hit_Monkey (873 posts) - - Show Bio

The Gray Ghost or The Detective would make great code names with Tim. On the whole I think a name that relates to his more than substantial deductive skills and impressive intellect would be the way forward. They should move away from the bird fetish thing they have going on just now.  The Detective idea that was mentioned earlier is the one that jumped to my mind when I first considered Tim's code name. It was quite a big deal when Ra's Al Ghul called him that. He's only other character that he has ever called 'Detective' apart from Batman so it has a nice reference in it as well as sounding rather cool.

#25 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hit_Monkey said:

The Gray Ghost or The Detective would make great code names with Tim. On the whole I think a name that relates to his more than substantial deductive skills and impressive intellect would be the way forward. They should move away from the bird fetish thing they have going on just now.  The Detective idea that was mentioned earlier is the one that jumped to my mind when I first considered Tim's code name. It was quite a big deal when Ra's Al Ghul called him that. He's only other character that he has ever called 'Detective' apart from Batman so it has a nice reference in it as well as sounding rather cool.

That name—"The Detective" or some such—would also work well as a title because "Detective Comics" is already know as a Batman book. They could easily spin off of that for the title of a Tim Drake-Wayne book without confusing readers overly much.
  • Making him official: Detective Comics (yes, just give him the title like you gave it to Batwoman)
  • As a "teen" version: Young Detective Comics; Teen Detective Comics; Detective Comics Go!; etc
  • Typical variations/synonyms: Detective Adventures; Investigation Comics; etc
  • Lazy route: Red Detective; Red Detective Comics; Detective Comics: Robin; etc
  • Crazy sub-title: Detective Comics: The Detective Who Was a Bird; Detective Comics: Now With More Love Interests Than Dick Grayson; etc
  • Straight name title: The Detective; Detective
I think it'd be a great way to handle it. I could totally get behind a Young Detective Comics book starring Tim Drake.  EDIT: Heck, not just Tim, but you could make it Cass too. Young Detective Comics, starring Blackbat and Redbird. I'd read it. 
 
As for the suit, you could just put him in plainclothes with a domino mask most of the time and then have him bust out a bat-like ninja-suit at night, but you don't necessarily need to. You could just give him a straight up Bat-Suit just like the one he wore as Robin or even the new one he's wearing in the nDCU. Just drop the symbols from everything. It'd be like the old Kathy Kane Batwoman suit. You didn't need a bat-logo to know who she was and what characters she was related to. 
 
#26 Posted by tdrake (7 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Redwing or Redbird but I kinda like the way he's a more colorful version of Nightwing (costume-wise anyway).  

#27 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@tdrake said:
I like Redwing or Redbird but I kinda like the way he's a more colorful version of Nightwing (costume-wise anyway).  
One problem with "Redwing" I just thought of from this post is that Nightwing's costume is now red & black, not blue & black. So really, it might be confusing.
#28 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg said:
 
As for the suit, you could just put him in plainclothes with a domino mask most of the time and then have him bust out a bat-like ninja-suit at night, but you don't necessarily need to. You could just give him a straight up Bat-Suit just like the one he wore as Robin or even the new one he's wearing in the nDCU. Just drop the symbols from everything. It'd be like the old Kathy Kane Batwoman suit. You didn't need a bat-logo to know who she was and what characters she was related to. 
 
If they're trying to go for a "neutral" suit like above, they should just use this unmarked version of his new one: 
Tim Drake: Redbird? 
 
I think it looks so much better than the final product with the tiny yellow straps for no reason. If they used the above as his "Redbird" costume, paired him up with Cass and launched Young Detective Comics with Blackbat and Redbird I'd be in heaven. (The more I say "Redbird" to myself the less "Blackbat" sounds ridiculous.)
#29 Posted by Hit_Monkey (873 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg:  
I actually don't mind the costume with or without the straps. In a way I kinda dig the straps but I do know where your coming from. They are a little goofy but then again the costume and the name, in fact the whole motif to me does not fit Tim at all. It sort of makes him come across rather twee.
#30 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hit_Monkey: Well the thing about the straps is that they're mini-versions of the two straps he has on in his old costume, so I'm sure they were put there for some sense of continuity between costumes. but they just look silly that thin. If the straps were drawn a little wider, they would look less like fetishwear IMO. 
 
This piece of fanart draws them a little wider and puts functional pouches on them instead of just pins: 
#31 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey, what about if he took over the Insider suit
 
Tim Drake, the Insider? It'd be interesting to see what Tim could do with some honest super powers.
 

#32 Posted by ImperiousRix (1069 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Red Robin is a name that shoulda stayed with Kingdom Come where the character originated.  I have no idea WHAT you'd change it to (though I can get behind some of the proposed options), but inserting "Red" in front of "Robin" doesn't exactly make a name that's iconic or really very good. 
 
If there can be multiple Batmen, I don't see why both Tim Drake and Damien can't just use Robin as their names.

#33 Edited by DarkBird (167 posts) - - Show Bio

 for god sake just call him redbird or red wing  also i just

 saw somebody call him the insider that will be cool like the young detectives idea
#34 Posted by War Killer (20006 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally like Red Robin. Now if we were talking about "Black Bat" then I would agree with you :P

#35 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:
I personally like Red Robin. Now if we were talking about "Black Bat" then I would agree with you :P
Black Bat could definitely be better, but the fact that there's an old pulp hero named that makes me hate it slightly less (although the character is NOTHING like Cass so even that doesn't make sense). But definitely she needs a better name.
#36 Posted by Ms. Omega (4404 posts) - - Show Bio

  

#37 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12602 posts) - - Show Bio

he cant take Redbird because thats his cars name or at least it was. but Redwing is definitely a good idea since the original redwing was wiped out of history following Zero Hour

#38 Posted by CrimsonAvenger (1162 posts) - - Show Bio

While I actually like the name of Red Robin, I would not mind him calling himself Redwing. Also I for one prefer the new suit with the wings over the previous costume.

#39 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12602 posts) - - Show Bio
@CrimsonAvenger said:
While I actually like the name of Red Robin, I would not mind him calling himself Redwing. Also I for one prefer the new suit with the wings over the previous costume.
seconded
#40 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@CrimsonAvenger said:
While I actually like the name of Red Robin, I would not mind him calling himself Redwing. Also I for one prefer the new suit with the wings over the previous costume.
Better than the previous red robin costume maybe--I couldn't look at that one and not think of Dr. Mid-nite--but his balck-and-red Robin costume was awesome: 
 
#41 Edited by CrimsonAvenger (1162 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg:  
 
I loved his Red and black costume. It was the best Robin costume he had and the best out of every Robin's costume.
#42 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@CrimsonAvenger said:
@fodigg:   I loved his black and Red Robin costume.
Now I'm confused. The red-and-black Robin costume or the black Red Robin costume?
#43 Posted by CrimsonAvenger (1162 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg:  
 
The red and black Robin costume. I didn't realize that I should have worded my sentence differently.
#44 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@CrimsonAvenger said:
@fodigg:   The red and black Robin costume. I didn't realize that I should have worded my sentence differently.
lol, no biggy!  
 
the capitalization just threw me.
#45 Posted by ComicStooge (12075 posts) - - Show Bio

It's Tim f***ing Drake! I personally don't care what his name is, as long as it isn't something REALLY stupid. 
 
I have no problems with the name 'Red Robin' at all.
#46 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicStooge said:
It's Tim f***ing Drake! I personally don't care what his name is, as long as it isn't something REALLY stupid.  I have no problems with the name 'Red Robin' at all.
Just to be clear, though the name annoys me, it won't stop me from reading a Tim Drake book.
#47 Posted by Dhor (282 posts) - - Show Bio

I always liked Darkwing OF Batwing for Tim drake. I mean they`r better then Red Robin Anyway. Who know maybe the writers will come up with some original and badass name in the near future

#48 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

idk, red robin is simple, gets to the point, like batman or superman.

#49 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Hate the name it doesn't recognize the extint to which he graduated from being the boy wonder not only that but most people call him "Red" anyway plus with Tim one of his plans may involve pretending not to be related to the Bat family and with robin in his name that plans out the window love red hate robin

@fodigg l

: You have a lot of really good ideas about Tim I actually thought of Young Detectives to, i called it Black Bat and Red Robin ,i doubt they would listen but do the world some good and write these ideas and complaints to Dc and Lobdell

#50 Posted by Joygirl (18889 posts) - - Show Bio

Wrote a huge long post and CV ate it. So long story short -- yeah it's a stupid name, he needs a new one.

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