Off My Mind: Why Red Hulk is a Better Avenger than Hulk

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Posted by G-Man (18855 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless you've managed to avoid all the trailers and clips for The Avengers, you've probably heard Tony Stark's line, "We have a Hulk."

That line brought a smile to the faces of comic book readers but it is a very valid point. The Avengers are indeed Earth's Mightiest Heroes. To live up to that name, they need to deliver the goods. In other words, they have to be able to back up that claim. There's pretty much nothing more intimidating than having a huge massive Hulk capable of smashing anything in sight.

While Bruce Banner and Thunderbolt Ross are two completely different individuals, they are both Hulks and have both been part of the Avengers. That's where the similarities end. As Hulks, they offer different things to the Avengers. We might be seeing Banner/Hulk in the movie but Red Hulk is proving he's the better Hulk to have on the team.

== TEASER ==

Now we've seen many different versions of the green Hulk. We've had the pure rage one that would provide an incredible amount of strength to the team. Strength isn't everything and they do have other powerhouses on the team. We've also seen the more intelligent version of Hulk. That's where he could be an asset. An extremely powerful and intelligent member is something every team would love to have. Hulk may have been able to maintain that smart persona from time to time but it always falls apart.

Red Hulk is exactly what the team needs, especially with AVENGERS VS. X-MEN going on.

As the Avengers embarked on the battle against the X-Men after Cyclops attacked Captain America, Red Hulk was there barking out orders. As a military man, he was telling heroes with more superhero battle experience than he has what to do. He was telling them that they need to fight smart. They need to take out those they know they can defeat first. They can't think of their opponents as friends. They need to go in and put a stop to the situation as fast as possible.

It's not all about strength.

A year ago I brought up what might be the one best superpower to have. It has nothing to do with the fact that I was a high school math teacher for a while but intelligence is key. Knowing how to defeat your enemy is a bigger deal than simply being able to smash one.

Banner was a Hulk for a lot longer than Ross but when he put his military mind to use, it was a different game.

The same can be applied to the preparations for facing the X-Men. Hulk would want to go in and smash everyone and everything. Destroy it all until the battle was over. Ross knows you have to be strategic about it.

That's also what makes Captain America a great leader. He may have the super soldier serum in him but its his ability to lead that makes him one of the best Avengers and capable of leading Asgardian gods and others.

I like Hulk. He's a great character but he's not known to be a team player. Even when he was hanging out with the other Hulks, it didn't last long. Red Hulk is a smart guy. He has experience dealing with super-powered enemies. The atmosphere in the Marvel Universe is changing. The Avengers' enemies are getting smarter as well. Red Hulk may provide an enormous amount of strength but its his mind that makes him a valuable member.

#1 Posted by VictorGrey (13472 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't beat the classics.

#2 Posted by saoakden (1020 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the both Banner and Ross being Hulks. I think if Banner was more like Red Hulk (Having some brains, speaking in complete sentences, using his power wisely instead of destorying everything in sight) when the Avengers first formed, he would have been in the team a whole lot longer.

I also think that the Red Hulk being on the Avengers is a way of redeeming himself since he first debuted as Red Hulk. He did kill a couple of people and tried to take over. Huh random thought, If Hulk can be Masetro in some alternate timeline due to some nuclear war, what would Red Hulk become if he went through the samething as that Hulk from that timeline? Red Maestro?

#3 Posted by howlett76 (59 posts) - - Show Bio

oh please there is no real comparison between ross and bruce as hulks of course ross is more suited to team dynamics he's able to control his rage more than bruce can, bruce is and has always been not a team player

#4 Posted by ComicStooge (13810 posts) - - Show Bio

That's a pretty cool speech Ross said.

#5 Posted by feebadger (1445 posts) - - Show Bio

You used to be a maths teacher!?! I.. I'll never look at Comic Vine the same way again!

#6 Posted by AdrianOpIvy (25 posts) - - Show Bio

how does daredevil jump out of a plane? yeah he has his batons but its not like he can swing off anything nearby? and to a lesser extent, same thing for spidey

#7 Posted by Deadcool (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge said:

That's a pretty cool speech Ross said.

That Bendis wrote.

#8 Posted by ssejllenrad (12790 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool said:

@ComicStooge said:

That's a pretty cool speech Ross said.

That Bendis wrote.

Awkward moment for me. Don't know if I'll hate the speech or give credit to Bendis. Hmmm.... I'm gonna need some haterade. Nyahahaha!

#9 Posted by Deadcool (6752 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad said:

@Deadcool said:

@ComicStooge said:

That's a pretty cool speech Ross said.

That Bendis wrote.

Awkward moment for me. Don't know if I'll hate the speech or give credit to Bendis. Hmmm.... I'm gonna need some haterade. Nyahahaha!

... I want people to give some credit to Bendis here on CV...

#10 Posted by VioletPhoenix (306 posts) - - Show Bio

Because..Red Hulk actually cooperates?

#11 Edited by Illuminatus (9489 posts) - - Show Bio

How much did Loeb pay you for this article, Tony? :P 
 
Seriously though, as admirable as Ross's little huzzah speech is, it is entirely pointless from a realistic standpoint. If you're going to fight the X-Men on their home turf, why are you bringing Black Panther, Hank Pym, and Daredevil? They'll get creamed within ten seconds of landing, and if they manage to survive the fall, even a low ranking X-Man could mop the floor with all three of them simultaneously. It just strikes me as odd that, out of all the individuals the Avengers chose to bring with them to Utopia, they brought some low-tier street levelers that may be classic Marvel characters with big personalities and unique skill-sets/abilities, but lack any real powers that give them any sort of edge over the X-Men. I mean, really, where is Blue Marvel? Where is Ms. Marvel? Where is Spider-Woman? Where is flipping Thor? Why isn't War Machine helping them out? Why didn't Danny ask for help from the rest of the Immortal Weapons? Why didn't Grimm ask for help from Reed, Sue, and the rest of the Future Foundation? Where in the hell is Strange? I would think Strange would be a necessity, given that they will be combating characters such as Magik and Colossus with an amping from Cyttorak.  
 
This event is so utterly inept as a concept, and it's execution looks downright ridiculous. Almost all of the Avengers being sent in would be obliterated by a Magneto+Namor+Colossus team-up. Try harder, Bendis. 
 
 
Okay, so now that I have vented my seething disdain for this event and Brian Michael Bendis, I shall comment on this article as a whole. For starters, it should be very obvious why Rulk is a better Avenger: he cooperates. On top of that, Rulk is actually intelligible. On top of that, he is fully capable of taking control of a situation and instructing an entire group of superheroes to do what he thinks will save the day and their lives. Is current Hulk capable of all this? Probably. Does current Hulk give a hoot about the Avengers as a whole? Nope. Until Hulk comes around to a way of thinking that fits with how the Avengers now operate, we're stuck with Ross. Better get used to it, folks.

#12 Posted by Mercy_ (91871 posts) - - Show Bio

HATE Rulk

Moderator
#13 Edited by Illuminatus (9489 posts) - - Show Bio
@AdrianOpIvy said:

how does daredevil jump out of a plane? yeah he has his batons but its not like he can swing off anything nearby? and to a lesser extent, same thing for spidey

This whole event pretty much lacks any logic entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if Murdock lands on his feet and jumps right into a fight with Iceman or some equally ridiculous trite.
#14 Posted by AdrianOpIvy (25 posts) - - Show Bio

hahahahahahahahaha ill hold you to that

#15 Posted by DocFatalis (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

Something the article doesn't mention: Ross is also of the faithful kind. Once committed to something, he will support his teammates till the end. Also, being pragmatic and vicious can't hurt, can it?

Now about this arc, it's reached a level of silliness and unlikability (ok, the word doesn't exist, but you get my point) that makes it look like a bad parody or a book written by comic industry enemies in order to ridicule it.

#16 Posted by sentryman555 (823 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk might have become a better team player if, ya know, Iron-man hadn't shot him into space........

#17 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio

redhulk gives a great amount of power and is an incredibely good leader, it's Cap in 2.0

#18 Edited by Hot_Karl (288 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

HATE Rulk

who cares srsly

#19 Posted by perry_411 (424 posts) - - Show Bio

Illuminatus said almost everything about the saga.

My one contribution. He gave a speech to trained heroes, with greater combat experience than him, while they were jumping out of a plane. He contributes 0 by talking to them. These are self-motivated heroes.

#20 Posted by OmegaTheDestroyer (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

am I the only one that wishes Ross kept his mustache in Hulk form?

#21 Posted by HolySerpent (12793 posts) - - Show Bio

Won't be reading this story arch

Online
#22 Posted by RineUp (28 posts) - - Show Bio

i only know the green one :/

#23 Posted by notoriousmistersims (91 posts) - - Show Bio

the hulk is my fav but i do see ur point wit red hulk have that military backround so even if banner has been hulk longer ross was there day one chancing him down red hulk is a great fit for the avengers

#24 Posted by KainScion (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmegaTheDestroyer: rulk stache? i would destroy the world!!

#25 Posted by Scribbles (77 posts) - - Show Bio

It should be a pretty easy fight for the X-Men, since half the Avengers will die after jumping off the helicarrier.

Also, Rulk is only cool if Loeb isn't writing him.

#26 Posted by jubeiyagyuX (121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

How much did Loeb pay you for this article, Tony? :P

Seriously though, as admirable as Ross's little huzzah speech is, it is entirely pointless from a realistic standpoint. If you're going to fight the X-Men on their home turf, why are you bringing Black Panther, Hank Pym, and Daredevil? They'll get creamed within ten seconds of landing, and if they manage to survive the fall, even a low ranking X-Man could mop the floor with all three of them simultaneously. It just strikes me as odd that, out of all the individuals the Avengers chose to bring with them to Utopia, they brought some low-tier street levelers that may be classic Marvel characters with big personalities and unique skill-sets/abilities, but lack any real powers that give them any sort of edge over the X-Men. I mean, really, where is Blue Marvel? Where is Ms. Marvel? Where is Spider-Woman? Where is flipping Thor? Why isn't War Machine helping them out? Why didn't Danny ask for help from the rest of the Immortal Weapons? Why didn't Grimm ask for help from Reed, Sue, and the rest of the Future Foundation? Where in the hell is Strange? I would think Strange would be a necessity, given that they will be combating characters such as Magik and Colossus with an amping from Cyttorak.

This event is so utterly inept as a concept, and it's execution looks downright ridiculous. Almost all of the Avengers being sent in would be obliterated by a Magneto+Namor+Colossus team-up. Try harder, Bendis.


Okay, so now that I have vented my seething disdain for this event and Brian Michael Bendis, I shall comment on this article as a whole. For starters, it should be very obvious why Rulk is a better Avenger: he cooperates. On top of that, Rulk is actually intelligible. On top of that, he is fully capable of taking control of a situation and instructing an entire group of superheroes to do what he thinks will save the day and their lives. Is current Hulk capable of all this? Probably. Does current Hulk give a hoot about the Avengers as a whole? Nope. Until Hulk comes around to a way of thinking that fits with how the Avengers now operate, we're stuck with Ross. Better get used to it, folks.

Holy hell!!!

Did you even read the book? Strange is right there,so is Spider Woman.Thor ,War machine and Ms.marvel are on the secret avengers book trying to intercept the Phoenix (yeah I know,hilarious).

#27 Edited by DATNIGGA (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

Hes physically stronger

he has a better personalty than red hulk

he's a deeper character

Its all about opinion but how are you gonna say the cheap copy is better than the original? thats like saying Dakken is better than wolverine or anti venom is better than venom or warmachine is better than iron man

#28 Posted by gethere (163 posts) - - Show Bio

@saoakden: Actually when the Avengers first formed the Hulk was able to speak in full sentences, and and was fairly cunning, with the current version being the closest example to how he was like. I sure you are thinking of the 70s savage hulk which is okay as it in my opinion a very easy mistake of people how don't really know a lot about the character '

#29 Posted by G-Man (18855 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by Shazam78 (139 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I have to agree with this article. Although I don't plan on buying the Avengers VS X-Men books. It's always good to have a hulk on the avengers but as stated having a intelligent and mentally stable one is even better. I couldn't see any version of green Hulk giving great marching orders like that in the panel of them literally jumping into the fight. This is the kind of thing that put him on my greatest leaders list.
@AdrianOpIvy said:

how does daredevil jump out of a plane? yeah he has his batons but its not like he can swing off anything nearby? and to a lesser extent, same thing for spidey
Can't speak for DD but Spidey can make a web parachute.

#31 Posted by Tyrisis (33 posts) - - Show Bio

While I see the point of the article, I still think Rulk is a ridiculous idea! Hulk's number one nemesis in several media types has always been Thunderbolt Ross. Now, Ross is just another Hulk that needs stopped if you apply his own opinions for years. Huge plot hole, and horrible character idea. Not to mention, Banner is and should always be the only Hulk - or it cheapens his history as a hero.

#32 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like a military Hulk because Hulk is supposed to be a disenfranchised anti-establishment figure. Red Hulk really isn't the Hulk to me. He's just another big bruiser with generic strong guy powers. Ross just seems too comfortable as the Hulk fighting alongside the Avengers.

#33 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:

... I want people to give some credit to Bendis here on CV...

For what...writing very few things that are actually good in the last 3-4 years?
Moderator
#34 Edited by Teerack (7415 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Hulk isn't stupid anymore. Look at world war Hulk he pretty much tactically beat most of earths heroes before it's conclusion. I think ever sense planet hulk there isn't much could actually stand up to Green Hulk when he's in control of himself. 
 
And if the story line with Ultron was supposed to be a teaser for what he will become he'll become pretty smart even without banner in his head.

#35 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@Tyrisis said:

While I see the point of the article, I still think Rulk is a ridiculous idea! Hulk's number one nemesis in several media types has always been Thunderbolt Ross. Now, Ross is just another Hulk that needs stopped if you apply his own opinions for years. Huge plot hole, and horrible character idea. Not to mention, Banner is and should always be the only Hulk - or it cheapens his history as a hero.

Creating Rulk may have not been the best idea but now that he exists it would make more sense for the Avengers or rather Cap to make him an ally.There's no plot hole.In reference to the idea that having more than one Hulk "cheapens" the hero, pretty much every Avenger has several characters in the Marvel Universe that are almost exactly like them.So I never understood why people make such a big deal about "The Hulks".
Moderator
#36 Posted by SC (13341 posts) - - Show Bio

Two years ago Rulk could have soloed both Avengers and X-Men... how the mighty have fallen. Bring back the real deal, Rulklopsauruslactus, and forget the hurt upset fanboys.  

Moderator
#37 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk > Rulk.

#38 Edited by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:

Two years ago Rulk could have soloed both Avengers and X-Men... how the mighty have fallen. Bring back the real deal, Rulklopsauruslactus, and forget the hurt upset fanboys.  

Is this an exaggeration; because two years ago Rulk couldn't even beat Thor let alone the Avenger together and the X-Men.
Moderator
#39 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

red Hulk is awesome. eff the haters >:D

#40 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by SC (13341 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
@SC said:

Two years ago Rulk could have soloed both Avengers and X-Men... how the mighty have fallen. Bring back the real deal, Rulklopsauruslactus, and forget the hurt upset fanboys.  

Is this an exaggeration; because two years ago Rulk couldn't even beat Thor let alone the Avenger together and the X-Men.
 
He was just tired after almost killing Galactus, who only got the upper hand on Rulk after Raging Red Behemoth killed an Immortal Elder of the Universe with his ruby fists of Rage. Plus he kicked Thor's stupid hat off on the moon. Thor only beat Rulk because Rulk jumped from the Moon to Earth and was distracted by playing Dragon Age II. On any other day he would pwn Thor, X-Men, Avengers, NWO, T-Birds, The Sugarhill Gang and the Boo-Yaa T.R.I.B.E, and all your favorite characters from any medium. He would stick Wolverines own claws in his own face, wrap Cyclops tongue around his eyes so he can't shoot and catch Hawkeye's arrows with his teeth and spit them back as grenades.  
Moderator
#42 Posted by The Stegman (25961 posts) - - Show Bio
@DATNIGGA:  
 

  Hes physically stronger

he has a better personalty than red hulk

he's a deeper character

Its all about opinion but how are you gonna say the cheap copy is better than the original? thats like saying Dakken is better than wolverine or anti venom is better than venom or warmachine is better than iron man 

 

He's not saying Red Hulk is a better character, he's saying Red Hulk is a better fit for the Avengers because he's a better team player, which is true.
#43 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (4498 posts) - - Show Bio

Still dont see the point of a Red Hulk ...pft Il wait until a blue oe shows up or better yet we can have a whole emotinal spectrium of Hulks

#44 Posted by davelecave (1111 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally agree, he has the stability and leadership needed to help this Avengers squad.

#45 Posted by Worldbreaker (34 posts) - - Show Bio
@Illuminatus said:
How much did Loeb pay you for this article, Tony? :P 
 
Seriously though, as admirable as Ross's little huzzah speech is, it is entirely pointless from a realistic standpoint. If you're going to fight the X-Men on their home turf, why are you bringing Black Panther, Hank Pym, and Daredevil? They'll get creamed within ten seconds of landing, and if they manage to survive the fall, even a low ranking X-Man could mop the floor with all three of them simultaneously. It just strikes me as odd that, out of all the individuals the Avengers chose to bring with them to Utopia, they brought some low-tier street levelers that may be classic Marvel characters with big personalities and unique skill-sets/abilities, but lack any real powers that give them any sort of edge over the X-Men. I mean, really, where is Blue Marvel? Where is Ms. Marvel? Where is Spider-Woman? Where is flipping Thor? Why isn't War Machine helping them out? Why didn't Danny ask for help from the rest of the Immortal Weapons? Why didn't Grimm ask for help from Reed, Sue, and the rest of the Future Foundation? Where in the hell is Strange? I would think Strange would be a necessity, given that they will be combating characters such as Magik and Colossus with an amping from Cyttorak.  
 
This event is so utterly inept as a concept, and it's execution looks downright ridiculous. Almost all of the Avengers being sent in would be obliterated by a Magneto+Namor+Colossus team-up. Try harder, Bendis. 
 
 
Okay, so now that I have vented my seething disdain for this event and Brian Michael Bendis, I shall comment on this article as a whole. For starters, it should be very obvious why Rulk is a better Avenger: he cooperates. On top of that, Rulk is actually intelligible. On top of that, he is fully capable of taking control of a situation and instructing an entire group of superheroes to do what he thinks will save the day and their lives. Is current Hulk capable of all this? Probably. Does current Hulk give a hoot about the Avengers as a whole? Nope. Until Hulk comes around to a way of thinking that fits with how the Avengers now operate, we're stuck with Ross. Better get used to it, folks.
The problems you have with this event would make more sense if you didn't seem to take issue with things that either aren't true or don't make any sense.
#46 Posted by Kaaable (10 posts) - - Show Bio

why dont the xmen get all their telepaths and just shut all of them down? like emma professor x quintin quire rachel summers psylocke?

#47 Posted by Rasarima (371 posts) - - Show Bio

Rulk is...just a down troath hero.

you cant really see him cause all he does is be the "side"-"i dont have my own personality"-"will fit any hole" type of hero

#48 Posted by ProRush (27 posts) - - Show Bio

So Red Hulk would be so great if he kept the mustache! I like that Rulk is smart and has all the military backround, that definetly makes him more valuable as an avenger. However I will always prefer good old fashion HULK! I think part of his charm is that he smashes everything in sight and when the chips are down and you think he's been beat...he makes a full angry comeback and refuses to lose. HULK SMASH!

#49 Posted by Tchokes (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@VictorGrey: And this is why comic book industry cannot advance.

#50 Posted by Grimoire (566 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't like Red Hulk as Thunderbolt Ross is annoying in his way of thinking of seeing people as military assets rather than people.

I however agree though as every time The Hulk is included with the Avengers they always have to pull back his abilities, get him somewhere the main fight wasn't, or he wasn't available for some reason or another during major times of crisis.(Ex: Civil War = Planet Hulk) This includes his animated adventures besides Hulk Vs which is my favorite. lol

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