Busiek jumped the shark with that one
If Diana lifted the hammer the crossover might have been semi credible
but they gave the hammer to Superman and it was 100% garbage
Thor
Character » Thor appears in 8586 issues.
Thor Odinson is the All-father of Asgard /God of Thunder, offspring of All-Father Odin & Elder-Goddess Gaea. Combining the powers of both realms makes him an elder-god hybrid and a being of no perceivable limits. Armed with his enchanted Uru hammer Mjolnir which helps him to channel his godly energies. The mightiest and the most beloved warrior in all of Asgard, a staunch ally for good and one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse/omniverse. Thor is also a founding member of the Avengers.
Why Superman will never, ever be able to lift Thor's Hammer
1-Being a warrior has nothing to do with your species, especially in comic book universes
2- Superman is warrior, read Death of Superman, New Krypton, or any of the better superman story arcs. He is a warrior, he fights with honor, he is ready to sacrifice his life a thousand times to save others and he's dedicated to protecting the weak. That's what true warriors do.
3-He does believe in the Judeo-Abrahamic-Islam God, he is shown even praying at times.
4-Being ready to kill does not make you a warrior, it only means you're ready to kill. The inventor of Aikido was firmly and completely opposed to killing, no one who knows warrior ideals will doubt he was a warrior as well.
Well, to be honest my dad is a lifetime fan of Superman. But since I'm an avid Marvel reader.. So far I've read some cool elseworld stories, but to be quiet honest, he didn't seem much of a warrior to me.
The fact that I used an alien was indeed not all that clever, Beta-ray bill can be used a good example (I have the complete simonson run) I should've known.
Whereas believing, I never figured he actually does. Maybe it's 'cause an omnipotent being like him, why should he need a God? I don't so why him, the mightiest man on earth. But that's yet an other discussion.
But yet. Killing or dying in battle, as far as I know, is very important to Odin. Being the almighty God of them Norse barbarians and stuff... I do believe that this is one of the reasons why he could never lift that damn hammer, and I do believe that was the question to start with.
I will lock myself up in my dad's attic and read all his stuff, I really will...
Whereas believing, I never figured he actually does. Maybe it's 'cause an omnipotent being like him, why should he need a God? I don't so why him, the mightiest man on earth. I will lock myself up in my dad's attic and read all his stuff, I really will... "Fair enough, but I will disagree on the point of superman being omnipotent. He's far less powerful then that. Power wise he's about close to Thor's level in my honest opinion (mind you here I speak post Crisis on Infinite earths where he was depowered and excised of the silver aged sillyness). He's is very, very powerful like Thor. But he's not a cosmic entity like Galactus or any of the other cosmic horrors.
I'm not a die hard superman fan either. I like the character, but I admit he has suffered through a lot of bad writing over the decades (predictable really). But I still think he's cool and some of the best comics I've ever read starred Superman. Case and point, Kingdom Come pure awesome, nuff said...
Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thor
" did Wonder Woman lift the hammer? when? :O "It was during the fan voted crossover
Diana lost to Storm (stupid), Aquaman beat Namor to death with a big fish and Thor in one of the better written fights flung his lightning hammer at Billy to depower him
Billy gets taken out by this epic lightning blast
the hammer lands on the ground near Wonder Woman
She reads the worthy inscription
'Thinks yeah that's me"
and Diana is briefly gifted with the powers of Thor
As lame as the fan voted crossover was, it was still 100 times better than what Busiek wrote
@King_Thor said:
Why Superman will never lift Mjolnir? Heh... Because as long as Joe Quesada is EIC of Marvel comics, DC won't deal in another crossover with Marvel. Which...personally...does not hurt my feelings. I'm tired of Thor playing second fiddle to Superman. The whole merging of two realities was PIS in the extreme...to allow Superman to save the day... with Cap's shield and Thor's hammer no less. Sheesh...
Paragraph? I'll just agree with Walt Simonson, someone reporting from a Comic Con quoting him.
Paragraph? I'll just agree with Walt Simonson, someone reporting from a Comic Con quoting him.In Batman's terms:
"Simonson says in the WALT Universe that the way he wrote Thor meant that people like Superman or Captain America would never be able to lift Thor’s hammer. The hammer was made for killing Trolls so Superman who doesn’t kill would never be able to use it and that the hammer is bigger than the ideals of a country so Steve would be omitted at well."
"He's a boyscout."
Superman can pick thor's hammer because I saw the movie (Ultimate Avengers the movie) Hulk fight with thor, Hulk pick his hammer up..
And I saw book comics vs marvel (Superman vs hulk) that sueprman beat hulk two time before. I believe supernan can pick hammer up.
you should see the movie it.
@book2012 said:
Superman can pick thor's hammer because I saw the movie (Ultimate Avengers the movie) Hulk fight with thor, Hulk pick his hammer up..
And I saw book comics vs marvel (Superman vs hulk) that sueprman beat hulk two time before. I believe supernan can pick hammer up.
you should see the movie it.
That was the Ultimate versions of the characters. Ultimate Thor's hammer has no worthiness enchantment so anyone strong enough can lift it. Classical Thor's hammer not even the Hulk can lift. They at least got that right in Hulk vs even if the rest of it stank.
@Hazlenaut said:
I thought you have to be very noble in order to use the hammer. When written correctly superman is highly noble and should be. I would like to see Optimus Prime lift the hammer.
Yes, but its Odin's definition of nobility which is not the same as others. Odin would logically require a much more warrior/killing mentality than what Superman typically shows.
@seekquaze: so what like Supergirl, Power Girl, Mala from the animated series, power girl, it has be worthy solder or warrior. Maybe Wildcat if we are going to reject superman who in DC are most likely candidates? Do we have to look which version of Superman is a more likely option.
@seekquaze said:
@Hazlenaut said:
I thought you have to be very noble in order to use the hammer. When written correctly superman is highly noble and should be. I would like to see Optimus Prime lift the hammer.
Yes, but its Odin's definition of nobility which is not the same as others. Odin would logically require a much more warrior/killing mentality than what Superman typically shows.
I would not say that it has to do with nobility more to with honor. Being a good person has always been kind of the same from culture to culture and lot of people fail to understand that honor is not a messure of goodness it can be depending on your code of honor. Honor messure respect, duty, loyalty and responsibility everybody is honorable to some certein degree anyone who show these trait are being honorable even if they are not always honorable but an individual that is honorable is someone that lives by those traits such has parents have a duty to protect and educate they kids or feeling obliged to do something. A chrsitan could consider to be honorable because they have unshakeable loyalty to god and they have a responsibility to spread they faith thus a christian honor would be different to someone who has a different religious background the same applies to code of honor such has the chivarly and the bushido code thus both are warrior code they are different from each other. I don't think it has anything to do with nobility but more to do with the individual honor. Anyways logic detect that Superman shoud be able to wield the hammer because Captain America was able to lift it and Steve honor is more base on American ideal which Superman represent.
Superman can't lift Thor's hammer because they exist in different comic universes run by separate corporations competing for consumer dollars.
In the one company crossover (which by definition is non-canon) where the two did cross paths; Superman did indeed briefly hold and wield Thor's hammer.
Thor is the best master and wielder of Mjolnir, but Superman is definitely worthy enough to lift it.
@RainEffect said:
@SC said:Paragraph? I'll just agree with Walt Simonson, someone reporting from a Comic Con quoting him.In Batman's terms:"Simonson says in the WALT Universe that the way he wrote Thor meant that people like Superman or Captain America would never be able to lift Thor’s hammer. The hammer was made for killing Trolls so Superman who doesn’t kill would never be able to use it and that the hammer is bigger than the ideals of a country so Steve would be omitted at well."
"He's a boyscout."
Busieks crossover was boring
@seekquaze said:
Everyone who has lifted the hammer has a warrior mentality Superman lacks. I think part of it is killing. Superman one time was thrust into a long war in Asgard and refused to kill the demons there were fighting. He refuses to kill under any circumstances. From a warrior's perspective this is ridiculous and foolish. I think that is part of it an on a whole he lacks the same warrior spirits those who have lifted it do.
QFT
@Gambler said:
" He cant lift it but he sure lifted Thor off his feet ;) "
spinal tap referance on the dial going to elven?hmm an um wheres the boy scouts weekenss to magic in that ?
Superman has no resistance to magic, that does not mean is make him drop on his knees, He has defeated both shazam(captain marvel) and black atom.
Everyone who has lifted the hammer has a warrior mentality Superman lacks. I think part of it is killing. Superman one time was thrust into a long war in Asgard and refused to kill the demons there were fighting. He refuses to kill under any circumstances. From a warrior's perspective this is ridiculous and foolish. I think that is part of it an on a whole he lacks the same warrior spirits those who have lifted it do.
QFT
@quintus_knightfall: Well sir, fan voted outcome is something I wouldn't use as comic fact. In another crossover Superman got owned by Venom. I hate to say it since not many do, either due to not knowing or something else. Superman can get killed by Thor! It states clearly in his DC page that although magic will hurt Superman it would not kill him unless it comes from a divine or semi-divine source which Thor is. I would think that spells the end for Superman.
Take Care...
Superman wielded the power of Mjolnir within the confines of his own universes Valhalla for thousands of years.
So.... my guess is he'd do just fine in that department.
@laurencio: hahaha come on now, we both know that my 4 year old post was in no way presented as "fact." It says nothing about whether Thor could, or couldnt, kill Superman. Its a cheap shot aimed at getting Thor fans riled up. Guess its still working after all this time :)
@quintus_knightfall: Don't give yourself that much credit sir, it had nothing to do with it getting to me being a Thor fan. Ignorant comments should be addressed no matter the age or where they are posted. I wouldn't want someone new to comics not knowing better and charging into debates with these kind of weak minded examples. It's a headache correcting them later so we need to address this quickly and they need a dose of common sense so we can stop the brain damage before it gets out of hand.
Ultimately though I just wanted to point out that the comment (and others like it) are poor examples. Can you imagine if that allowed to stand without being addressed we would also have to mention that in another CrossOver Superman got killed by He-Man and again he got schooled hardcore by Venom from Marvel. It just seems to me that if someone is to judge a character it should be a two way street. I can say though that Superman would die rather easy at the hands of Thor, it would actually happen effortlessly! Either way man, I thank you for your good attitude towards my comment and I wish you well. Take Care...
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