Thor's Win/Loss record in AvX Event

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#1 Edited by OmegaRed86 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

So far he's lost to Phoenix in space, got his ass kicked by Captain Marvel reborn, and may have lost to a Phoenix powered Emma Frost. Are there anymore fights I should be aware of or am I wrong on any of these fights?

#2 Posted by Enyalios (141 posts) - - Show Bio

I have not been following this event because none of the writters on this series know what they are talking about. Most of the major fights that have taken place here have been complete crap (Namar losing to Thing, Magneto losing to Iron Man, etc) and their treatment of Thor is, as usual complete bull. However from what I have seen, this is what I recall:

Thor vs the Phoenix Force: Loss. This is about the only one so far that makes sense, as the full Phoenix Force is a cosmic entity and therefore is significantly more powerful than most things Thor has gone up against. Unhindered by the constraints of a human host, the Phoenix Force should have proven more than a match for Thor, though I certainly appreciated that he at least looked able to hurt it.

Thor vs the Phoenix possessed Marvel: Loss. This fight set the stage for every thing else that was to come. Marvel himself is well below Thor in power, and prior to this point, the Phoenix Force had only ever granted someone psionic powers and some access to cosmic energy, but now all of a sudden it put Marvel as a physical rival to Thor, and now suddenly it augments all his powers. Even still, it was nice that they at least show Thor gaining the advantage a good portion of the time, and that he was already dealing with wounds recieved from his encounter with the full Phoenix Force earlier. And at least Marvel was in fact a trained warrior.

Thor vs Rachel Grey: Inconclusive, though edge to Rachel. Rachel Grey, without the aid of the full Phoenix Force not only manages to tank a shot from Mjolnir, but then creates a psionic hammer and knocks the wind out of his lungs and puts him down, using by all appearances nothing but her arm strength. He is then attacked by Namor. Even though Thor has in the past taken on the whole team of Excalibur when they were tricked into thinking he was Juggernaut, which at the time included Rachel with the Phoenix Force, and proved that Mjolinir was capable of manipulating Rachel's psionic energy so for him to get essentially handled by her in this issue shows the writers have never done any research into the characters.

Thor vs Phoenix possessed Emma Frost: Loss. This is an even bigger crock than any of the others, for several reasons that explained on the picture showing it happening, but Emma Frost completely handles Thor physically. He shatters her at least, but then she comes back and completely dominates him and insults him (which seemed more like the writer insulting him then the actual character). Briefly, in addition to the points above about Captain Marvel, the Phoenix Force is a psionic being, and Emma Frost when in her diamond form, cannot access any of her own psionic powers. Also, Emma Frost used her diamond form to render her immune from possession from the Void shard that she took from Sentry. Both of these are recent history so its not like these acts are 20 plus years old, so in essence, Emma should not have even been able to access the Phoenix Force while in her diamond form. But hey, its Marvel and they had yet another way to humiliate Thor so they took it.

I have not seen the outcomes, again because I am not reading the books, but he has also had confrontations with the Phoenix empowered Cyclopes and I believe the Phoenix empowered Namor. Again not sure. Thor has essentially become Ares in terms of the way he is treated, essentially on the team to take the beating while everyone else actually figures out how to win. I said it before but I've noticed Hulk and even Rulk strangely absent from all these beatdowns. Love how they feel Thor is worthy of all the humiliation, but Scarlet Witch scores a win against the Phoenix empowered Magik.

#3 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor fight the PF again when he is using the Phoenix Box that War Machine and Captain Britain tried to use previously. that fight is a draw.

#4 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor was unable to properly damage Scott while he's in possession of the Phoenix Force (or a partial part of it).

Moderator
#5 Edited by OmegaRed86 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for the reply, fellas.

P.S.

Burn in hell, Marvel writers.

#6 Posted by X_Titans (144 posts) - - Show Bio

@Enyalios: It says on the the Marvel Universe Wiki that the Phoenix enhances any powers of its host. The page hasn't been updated since 2007 so we know its not a recent change.

#7 Posted by Illuminatus (9497 posts) - - Show Bio

Poor Thor..

#8 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

That would be an interesting fight hulk Vs a P5. Thor does seem to be a whipping boy as of late.

#9 Posted by Enyalios (141 posts) - - Show Bio

@X_Titans: That does not quite work either. Marvel Wiki, just like other wikis and just like this site for that matter, is written by users. Anybody can go in there and type in anything they want to. Its hardly an authority. Assuming a user did not draw his or her own conclusions and type that out, at best they got that from a Marvel handbook, which itself is hardly an authority considering how many errors and ommisions those volumes had. Since this is the Thor forum, the handbooks used to state that Thor had a substantially less base strength score and that it was through the use of his magic belt that his strength was in hundred ton catagory. Cool, except that comics never depicted that. He only used his belt of strength once to my knowledge, counter a weakness spell, and after that never used it again. Their descriptions were not substantiated in any of the books.

So if it is the case that the Phoenix Force enhances powers one already possesses, in what comics is that shown prior to this farce called AvX? In what comics does the Phoenix Force do anything other than enhance or grant psionic powers? The best example would be Phoenix IX, a baseline human who served as host to the Phoenix Force. He was granted psionic powers, and little else. Why didn't it give him anything else? Enhance his base human strengths to even moderate superhuman levels? Do anything other than make him a male version of Jean Grey? And if you try the argument that it was because he had no other powers to enhance, then you would think that Jean Grey would have been the last person the Phoenix Force would have wanted to use as a host. Why inhabit a host who already has the powers you grant when you can can grant those powers to someone else and then gain an enhanced version of their powers. If a baseline human can gain the powers of the Phoenix then its not incumbant on psionic powers, just will. Jean hardly demonstrated the greatest willpower among the X-Men, in fact, by demonstrated feats, Cyclops (who housed the essence of Apocolypse and still houses a sliver of the Void that even Emma could not contain) does. Or better yet, how about Magneto? Gain unlimited psionic powers and enhance Magneto's control of the electromagnetic spectrum would grant the Phoenix Force pretty much unlimited powers.

And again, it still does not explain how Emma was even able to access the Phoenix Force, a psionic entity in a form that blocks Emma from using psionic powers, as well as being shown to block possession of other entities (the Void).

No it still does not make sense.

#10 Posted by stormphoenix (910 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

Poor Thor..

Exactly my second favorite hero beat like a drum......;-(

#11 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormphoenix said:

@Illuminatus said:

Poor Thor..

Exactly my second favorite hero beat like a drum......;-(

I'm starting to really get tired of AvX -___-

#12 Edited by stormphoenix (910 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@stormphoenix said:

@Illuminatus said:

Poor Thor..

Exactly my second favorite hero beat like a drum......;-(

I'm starting to really get tired of AvX -___-

My friend I do not blame you. -_-

#13 Posted by wma8706 (6 posts) - - Show Bio
@stormphoenix:
#14 Posted by stormphoenix (910 posts) - - Show Bio

@wma8706 said:

@stormphoenix:

You see that pisses me off!! why can't thor do that!? If he did it once he can do it again I mean come on *sigh* I'm starting to give up guys help help keep me strong hahaha

#15 Posted by Pyrogram (35148 posts) - - Show Bio

If we could hear thor I wonder what he would say, He would be like I HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE!!! I have fought celestials and galactus and survived and I cant put down scott summers.

#16 Posted by OmegaRed86 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

I repeat: Screw You, Marvel.

#17 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmegaRed86: Five high sistah

#18 Posted by SupahForeigner (227 posts) - - Show Bio

For me, AvX has a good story behind it, what completely ruins it for me is the complete bs in most of the fights. If they were planning to have Thor get his ass whooped on a daily basis in AvX then they might as well attempt to make it seem legit. Which at the moment they haven't... 
 
AvX is another reason why I'm enjoying DC Comics more and more.  Marvel has run out of ideas in my opinion.

#19 Posted by NerdsFTW (3732 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormphoenix said:

@wma8706 said:

@stormphoenix:

You see that pisses me off!! why can't thor do that!? If he did it once he can do it again I mean come on *sigh* I'm starting to give up guys help help keep me strong hahaha

Hence why Thor fans use the terms Classic and Modern Thor.

#20 Posted by stormphoenix (910 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea well you know what...I still have hope for my fav characters soon things will be diffrent :).......(Hopefully)

#21 Posted by samuel_larson_10 (283 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin used gaea to get a son to surpass him in power, what happened? Thor. Why then is he so puny?

#22 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF, Marvel?

#23 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

Poor Thor..
#24 Posted by lanebad6 (111 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what would be sick is that if they continued with the rune king thor thing and he does a stomp on everyone. Especially phoenix, just have him in one of the comics just kirb stomp phoenix with his pinky. Now that would make my year.

#25 Posted by OmegaRed86 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

@lanebad6 said:

You know what would be sick is that if they continued with the rune king thor thing and he does a stomp on everyone. Especially phoenix, just have him in one of the comics just kirb stomp phoenix with his pinky. Now that would make my year.

I wish.

#26 Posted by sagejonathan (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

I've become frustrated with Thor's treatment; I don't understand what the writers are thinking.

#27 Posted by Teerack (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not like he should be a match for Captain Marvel or the Phoenix. He put up a good fight each time.

#28 Posted by Z3RO180 (6336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack: i ca understand the phonix thing but Thor is well above captain marvels power level so he should have won.

#29 Posted by Teerack (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180: Not at all. Captain Marvel is a cosmic level hero. He fought people like Thanos on a regular basis. Marvel is a lot lot stronger then Thor.

#30 Posted by Z3RO180 (6336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack: No he isnt thor is a Hybrid Between a skyfater and an elder god His strength is only equaled by hercules and the hulk plus he has mjolnir. A normal Captain marvel would get destroyed in a normal fight the only way he won was because he had a fraction of the phonix force in him due to him being posesed by the PF

#31 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

What we can conclude from this is that Marvel simply hates Thor.

#32 Posted by lanebad6 (111 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180 said:

@Teerack: No he isnt thor is a Hybrid Between a skyfater and an elder god His strength is only equaled by hercules and the hulk plus he has mjolnir. A normal Captain marvel would get destroyed in a normal fight the only way he won was because he had a fraction of the phonix force in him due to him being posesed by the PF

I completely agree, but what would thor be like if he had the phoenix force? Like barely anyone could defeat him.

#33 Posted by Teerack (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180: Time and time again Thor has proven to be weaker then the Silver Surfur, which is someone weaker then Captain Marvel.

And every single Hulk vs Thor fight has proven that Hulk is stronger and not an equal.

#34 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

thor job's a lot lately.....

#35 Posted by Z3RO180 (6336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack:first off silver surfer is highly over rated in the mighty thor if the silver surfer is more powerful than him how come he didnt stomp him. Second I am familier with captain marvel and yes he has fought the like of thanos before but he only stood a chance because he had the nega band plus he is a trained warrior so he would beable to stand upt to him. Third Hulk is equal in strength to thor depending on how angry he is so we are both tight. Any way a PF possed captain marvel could defeat him but captain marvel just by himslef shoud not be able to defeat him.

#36 Posted by Z3RO180 (6336 posts) - - Show Bio

@lanebad6: I im not an expert on the PF but i think the ponix picks its own hosts and only picks people who can contain its power or some thing. any way i dout marvel would ever give thor a PF.

#37 Edited by Teerack (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180 said:

@Teerack:first off silver surfer is highly over rated in the mighty thor if the silver surfer is more powerful than him how come he didnt stomp him. Second I am familier with captain marvel and yes he has fought the like of thanos before but he only stood a chance because he had the nega band plus he is a trained warrior so he would beable to stand upt to him. Third Hulk is equal in strength to thor depending on how angry he is so we are both tight. Any way a PF possed captain marvel could defeat him but captain marvel just by himslef shoud not be able to defeat him.

Silver Surfer has taken down Thor and the rest of the avengers alone pretty effortlessly(which he was able to do even BEFORE his MAJOR power upgrade Galactus gave him during the annihilation even). The fight you're talking about in The Mighty Thor he was trying to stop Thor from interfering while he waited for Galactus to beat up Odin. The point being he wasn't trying to beat Thor to a pulp which is something he could do.

And no shit Captain Marvel had the naga bands... that's kind of where most of his power comes from. That would be like me saying Thor could only win a fight because he had Mjölnir

Not even going to bother getting into the Hulk vs Thor, but in Fear It's Self Thor says pretty much verbatim Hulk is stronger then him even before he got the hammer form the serpent, so what ever.

#38 Posted by OmegaRed86 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack said:

@Z3RO180 said:

@Teerack:first off silver surfer is highly over rated in the mighty thor if the silver surfer is more powerful than him how come he didnt stomp him. Second I am familier with captain marvel and yes he has fought the like of thanos before but he only stood a chance because he had the nega band plus he is a trained warrior so he would beable to stand upt to him. Third Hulk is equal in strength to thor depending on how angry he is so we are both tight. Any way a PF possed captain marvel could defeat him but captain marvel just by himslef shoud not be able to defeat him.

Silver Surfer has taken down Thor and the rest of the avengers alone pretty effortlessly. The fight you're talking about in The Mighty Thor he was trying to stop Thor from interfering while he waited for Galactus to beat up Odin. The point being he wasn't trying to beat Thor to a pulp which is something he could do.

And no shit Captain Marvel had the naga bands... that's kind of where most of his power comes from. That would be like me saying Thor could only win a fight because he had Mjölnir

Not even going to bother getting into the Hulk vs Thor, but in Fear It's Self Thor says pretty much verbatim Hulk is stronger then him even before he got the hammer form the serpent, so what ever.

Can I get an Issue number, scan, or picture. I'd like to see this.

#39 Posted by Z3RO180 (6336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack: when did ss beat up all the avengers. Galacrtus never beat up odin and in fear itself Thor said He could never beat hulk he never said he was stronger than him.

#40 Posted by Teerack (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

@Z3RO180: The first time Galactus came to earth(i feel like there might of been another time as well), kind of did considering even though Galactus started the fight out in a weakened state he had Odin beat while he stood there look as good as new at the end of their fight, If Thor could never beat the Hulk that means the Hulk is stronger...

#41 Posted by Z3RO180 (6336 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack: The hulk is a giant green batering ram unle you get his mind foucused on some thing eles he isnt going to give you any breathing room and thats how thor lost to him

#42 Posted by telepathic666 (227 posts) - - Show Bio

in the defense of PF in the past it was never "whole" jean put it back together and made it more powerful that would mean any of it's hosts would be stronger than if it were plain old PF

#43 Posted by Godslayer1090 (21 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack:

Pissed off Thor > Pissed off Silver Surfer

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer06SS86.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer07.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer08.jpg

#44 Posted by Teerack (5418 posts) - - Show Bio

@Godslayer1090: Thor was maddened and the Surfer was blood lusting. Neither were in the right state of mind. Look at Silver Surfer 4. They were both in a normal state of mind and the Surfer beats Thor and a whole bunch of asgardians.

#45 Posted by SC (12724 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait so the guy who created Thor, Silver Surfer and the Hulk, says he considers Thor the more powerful of the three? Thor has knocked out Silver Surfer more times than Silver Surfer has knocked out Thor. In direct application of strength versus strength Thor and Hulk were tied even after an hour of exertion, and but the Thor character is weaker. Kevin Grevioux, PAD, and Dan Slott. All Marvel writers, al consider Thor the most powerful Marvel superhero, but hey? What would those jokers know right? =p

Moderator
#46 Posted by Godslayer1090 (21 posts) - - Show Bio

@Teerack:

Silver Surfer also said he was more than likely having his power enhanced by Loki, that Thor had more strength than he did and decided not to use it in the fight and even said Mjolnir's power was greater than his.

Proof

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer01SS04.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer02.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer03.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer04.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer05.jpg

And plus, Thor soloed Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock at the same time.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock01Infi.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock02.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock03.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock04.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock05.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock06.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock07.jpg

I have just given you three instances where Thor has been shown and proven to be more powerful than Surfer. What have you shown me? Nothing. Just given me words that in the end turned out to be useless to prove whatever point you tried to accomplish. Generally speaking, I say Surfer and Thor are in the same weight class, but Surfer is no way the more powerful of the two if that is indeed the case.

#47 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

There's a preview for AVX #9...

#48 Posted by OmegaRed86 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage said:

There's a preview for AVX #9...

Link?

#49 Posted by OmegaRed86 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

Add another loss on the barbie:

Colossus and Magick vs Thor = Thor loses

That's at least 6 or 7 losses for Marvel's Top Gun. Yup.

#50 Edited by Danvidar (41 posts) - - Show Bio

Least it takes two of P5 this time and the surroundings are heavily cratered and damaged so the fight might have been better than the last couple. I would have prefered to see this fight than the Emma Frost one. Also its seems as if Thor might have done the stay behind to let comrades escape routine, would fit his nobility at least.

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