@TheAcidSkull said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@TheAcidSkull said: Want to have a viner VS viner match? Thor VS Hulk. Let's settle this.

sure, but in two days or so then :P

Alright.

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

@Fifthchild:

You're in a way agreeing with me. I always said Sentry's power is connected to his mental state. When Sentry is stable minded it means he has access to all of his powers. That is what I am trying to say and I posted a source stating that.

I agree with you that The Sentry's powerlevel is related to his mental state. However under different writers its been portrayed as being dependent on his confidence or as how much energy he is willing to tap into at any one time. Not on his mental stability i.e. a crazy Sentry is, if anything, probably more powerful than a normal Sentry.

In the Sentry miniseries he could use all his powers and was going toe to toe with Photon. And I never stated that Sentry or Photon were holding back, I stated that Sentry was act his best because it was said that their fight was destroying worlds.

I know you never said he was holding back in that fight. I did. Because he was:

The Sentry later says "No more holding back" or something like that and Photon promptly BFRs him rather than continue the fight.

In WWH on the other hand the Sentry was not holding back:

When Bendis was writing Sentry he didn't even have access to most his powers because throughout when Bendis was writing Sentry he was unstable.

I've read Bendis' entire run on the character through Avengers/Mighty Avengers/Dark Avengers/Siege and I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The Sentry had all his powers when Bendis was writing him. He discovered new powers at the end of Dark Avengers after the Molecule Man killed him a few times but thats it.

What do you mean I am ignoring what you are posting. Not to be mean but you didn't even post any scans saying that Thor doesn't hold back against Hulk or that Hulk holds back against Thor. I posted a scan of Thor saying he holds back against all mortals.

I mean that scans have been posted a couple of times in this thread as i pointed out where Hulk said he has always held back, even in World War Hulk:

Its generally not necessary to post scans for every reference that one cites but if you insist heres a few of Thor explicitly stating he isnt holding back against Hulk and/or is willing to kill him:

Gallery

From Hulk 255, from Hulk 440 when they battle in the Arctic (theres an earlier page where Thor gives almost exactly the same speech as he did in Hulk 255), 2 scans from Fear Itself 5 where Thor is willing to kill someone he considers a friend and makes it clear he doesnt like Hulk and one from Hulk 300

Heres another page from Hulk 300 with the narration "Not holding back, Thor strikes":

In fact damn close to the majority of Thor/Hulk fights have Thor saying "I may have been held back against you in the past Hulk - but not today!". Theres a similar line in the Hulk/Thor Annual of 2001 where Thor talks about stopping the Hulk once and for all. And despite this most Thor/Hulk battles end pretty much the same.

@sommyt said:

notice he even says NO MATTER HOW POWERFULL the mortal is INCLUDING THE HULK ...Hulk fans just get a nerdgasm from the statement THE hulk always say HULK IS STRONGEST THERE IS ...and they will do anything they can to prove it ...The hulk has shown noooo i repeat nooo strenght feats that puts him on Thor or Supermans level ....PERIOD

@cmartin:

You do know that scan is from a "What If"?

Its from "What If: Civil War"

@Fifthchild:

I'm agreeing with mostly everything you're saying. But what Hulk means with holding back is that he was not in his world breaker state. He has to get to that state though. Also Nul Hulk was amped by the Thors uncle. In your second scan neither are holding back. Your last scan says Hulk can not withstand Thors hammer since Thor was not holding back.

Also with Sentry I basically agree with most you've said. But against Photon that was him at his best and he was holding back. Yet the narration states that their fight could have destroyed worlds. Against Hulk he was going all out but that wasn't him at his best, neither was Hulk at his best.

Hulk was not holding back against Sentry he just not in his most powerful form(I.E World Breaker Hulk) and not even Sentry was. Can we agree on that? And I never denied Sentry holding back BUT Sentry was letting Hulk hit him...He even said "good",

Also during Bendis run Sentry didn't even know he had molecule powers...During Dark Avengers and Siege we were mostly seeing Voids powers because Void was becoming stronger since Sentry was being suppressed, because Bob wasn't even in his stable mind. Its simple...

@cmartin said:

@Fifthchild said:

@cmartin said:

NO hulk is nowhere close or near to superman.. you hulk fans...........

And Hulks strength was stated to be incalculable a couple of issues ago.

Guess whats perfectly calculable - the weight of the Earth.

Hulk > Superman.

Seriously though this endless fascination with high end feats to the exclusion of everything else that everyone on comicvine seems to have gets really boring after awhile.

EXACTLY hulks strength has been DESCRIBED as KEY WORD described.... so has thors hercs .... supes

No the Mad Thinker tried to calculate the Hulk's strength and came to the conclusion that it was incalculable. Thats nothing like some narrative hyperbole or someone saying "Gosh Thor's strength is amazing". Thats a near Reed Richards class intellect essentially deriving a mathematical proof that the Hulk's strength is limitless.

And now that you mention it I've never seen Thor, Hercules or even Superman's strength described as limitless except perhaps by themselves. All have had hard limits and never been portrayed as characters who could lift anything. I recall Superman saying that if he hits anything long enough it will break while fighting the Infinity Man but thats about it.

hulk could hardly brace a mountain range 150 billion tons......

OK lets get some perspective.

Firstly the mountain range was described as a mountain range that dwarfed the Andes:

How big are the Andes? This big:

Yep - that big stretch of mountains covering the left side of the continent of South America.

Dwarfed.

Dropped on his head from miles above.

But more importantly this was quite possibly the weakest Hulk ever. It was the Banner Hulk who couldn't get stronger with anger. Now to be fair Banner was beginning to lose some of his control over the Hulk at this stage but its made clear in Secret Wars and many, many times in this point of his history that Hulk is not at his best:

please show me hulk lifting or moving earth..... we have clear scans of supes doing that.......

Sure. This has already been posted in this thread. Heres Hulk overcoming enough force to "change the orbit of a planet":

Gallery

You're welcome.

anyone can describe strength as limitless ...... lets see the feat....

What feat could "show limitless strength"?

superman is miles and by far stronger than hulk..... no contest.... he benched press eaty for 5 days straight and he asking is that all ... which means its light.. he wasnt straining

He was straining. Have a look at your own scans:

"Thats...it? Thats...all...you've...got?"

hulk isnt in that league or ball park...sorry... you hulk fans keep clinging to that infinite madder stronger garbage....its nonsense.. hulk lifts mountain ranges well braces it he couldnt lift it... super man moves earths.... bench presses it for dy no sweat...

class dismissed

The Hulk is stronger than Superman. Peter David believes this. Dan Jurgens believes this. John Byrne believes this. Roger Stern believes this. The Hulk was shown as able to achieve strength levels that matched Pre-Crisis Superman in the first crossover in which they met.

Superman is strong. The Hulk is stronger. Thats pretty much his power.

This is going to be my last reply as I dont have the time to devote to this.

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

I'm agreeing with mostly everything you're saying. But what Hulk means with holding back is that he was not in his world breaker state. He has to get to that state though.

But according to that Pak run he can go to that state anytime he wants. Its his natural state.

Also Nul Hulk was amped by the Thors uncle.

Sure but that doesn't have any relevance to the scan contradicting the idea that Thor always holds back against mortals.

In your second scan neither are holding back. Your last scan says Hulk can not withstand Thors hammer since Thor was not holding back.

Yes. Hulk was knocked from his feet. He isn't Superman and he can't will himself to stay in one place.

Also with Sentry I basically agree with most you've said. But against Photon that was him at his best and he was holding back. Yet the narration states that their fight could have destroyed worlds. Against Hulk he was going all out but that wasn't him at his best, neither was Hulk at his best.

This is why i really dont like the comicvine style of debating where one debates as if everything is real and accept every showing without question. Sure Sentry was said to be spewing forth enough power to shred worlds....and Captain America was running away from it :-| Much like Sentry cut loose in WWH and people were able to watch from a distance. Thats comics.

Hulk was not holding back against Sentry he just not in his most powerful form(I.E World Breaker Hulk) and not even Sentry was. Can we agree on that? And I never denied Sentry holding back BUT Sentry was letting Hulk hit him...He even said "good",

Sentry wasn't fighting the most effectively anyone could ever fight but he was letting loose with all his power. Thats how i see it so maybe we agree.

Also during Bendis run Sentry didn't even know he had molecule powers...

You say "didn't even know" as if Sentry normally knows that he has these powers or that he knew in the Photon fight. Bendis gave him those powers 5 minutes before he killed him.

During Dark Avengers and Siege we were mostly seeing Voids powers because Void was becoming stronger since Sentry was being suppressed, because Bob wasn't even in his stable mind. Its simple...

Having read what Bendis thought of Sentry/Bob/Void in interviews i can say it isn't really that simple: Bendis saw them all as the same person and not even separate personalities really. Its all Bob's power. Bob was completely insane and out of control and had the power to do more or less do whatever he wanted by altering reality in some unrevealed way. He possessed hardly any insight into this however and even when he "realised" that he could manipulate molecules apparently that wasn't really what he was doing anyway. Sometimes he expressed that power by making himself into a Superman style hero while other times he made himself into a monster like The Void. Which at the end of the day is pretty similar to Banner and The Hulk IMO which is perhaps why they had such a particular relationship in the first place with the Hulk as The Sentry's best friend and the one The Void hated the most.

So, what is the general consensus of Thor's strength?

@Fifthchild:

1. He has to get mad to get into that state. I'm pretty sure the writers of Hulk would agree with me. Yes that IS his natural state, I never denied that. My point was he has to get into the state of World Breaker Hulk. The first time he got into that state was because his friend Rick Jones got hurt by Miek(who he trusted) and that really upset him.

2. The scan I posted about Thor not holding back against mortals still holds weight. Nul was amped and Thor even admitted that was stronger. So why would Thor hold back? That doesn't make sense.

3. Okay.

4. Again Sentry fighting against Hulk was not Sentry at his best or strongest. Neither was it Hulk at his best or strongest. I thought I made that clear.

5. Yes because he couldn't control them, because he was not mentally stable. If you read the miniseries of Sentry you would know that never happens, because during that team Bob's mind was not in a mess. So yeah we agree.

6. Sentry always had molecule manipulation. Read his miniseries, that's how he healed people. He didn't use it as much in his series because he didn't want to be looked at as a god. With those powers he would have had even more responsibility. Sentry did not want to be seen as a god but just a normal hero.

7. Interesting points. But just saying Bendis almost retconned the Sentry's origin until another writer(forgot his name!) wrote Sentry's orogins back to the original so what Bendis wrote about Sentry wouldn't matter since it couldn't change anything. Just pointing that out. Bendis doesn't really understand the Sentry's orgins. Void and Sentry are just split personalities of Bob. Sentry=Good, Bob=Host, Void=Balance. Read Sentry's miniseries by Paul Jenkins the creator of Sentry. Bendis is NOT the creator of Sentry.

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

@Fifthchild:

1. He has to get mad to get into that state. I'm pretty sure the writers of Hulk would agree with me. Yes that IS his natural state, I never denied that. My point was he has to get into the state of World Breaker Hulk. The first time he got into that state was because his friend Rick Jones got hurt by Miek(who he trusted) and that really upset him.

No. Thats the crazy thing about how Pak wrote Hulk at the end of his run. Hulk didn't have to get angry to go Worldbreaker. It was something he was always just bottling up. He just had to let go.

Its insane and i dont really like using it in debates at all but thats the way it was established.

2. The scan I posted about Thor not holding back against mortals still holds weight. Nul was amped and Thor even admitted that was stronger. So why would Thor hold back? That doesn't make sense.

...because Nulk was mortal?

Here was the logic of your previous argument:

1. Thor has said he always holds back against "mortals"
2. Hulk is "mortal"
3. Therefore Thor holds back against the Hulk

Heres what we just showed:

1. Thor didnt hold back against Nulk
2. Nulk is "mortal" (possessed by an ancient Asgardian spirit but as Thor's dialogue indicated he still saw it as The Thing and The Hulk)
3. Therefore Thor doesnt always hold back against "mortals"
4. Therefore Thor doesn't necessarily always hold back against the Hulk

Its all a bit rigid and overly literal when you lay it out like that...but then again so was the original argument.

3. Okay.

4. Again Sentry fighting against Hulk was not Sentry at his best or strongest. Neither was it Hulk at his best or strongest. I thought I made that clear.

5. Yes because he couldn't control them, because he was not mentally stable. If you read the miniseries of Sentry you would know that never happens, because during that team Bob's mind was not in a mess. So yeah we agree.

I've read everything with the Sentry except some of the X-Men stuff. I'm still not sure what you are talking about.

The Sentry's second mini (which effectively retconned massive chunks of the first mini and was written by Jenkins) was where the scan comes from about how the Sentry's powers are tied to his confidence and not his mental stability.

6. Sentry always had molecule manipulation. Read his miniseries, that's how he healed people. He didn't use it as much in his series because he didn't want to be looked at as a god. With those powers he would have had even more responsibility. Sentry did not want to be seen as a god but just a normal hero.

Sentry didn't always have molecular manipulation abilities, at least not in the way you mean. The revelation in Dark Avengers was meant to indicate that everything Sentry ever did that was superhuman (from being superstrong and punching someone in the face to shooting energy at people) was due to his heretofore unrecognised molecular manipulation abilities.

But the Sentry was not aware of having any ability to control molecules at any point prior to that arc and could not consciously and purposely do so.

7. Interesting points. But just saying Bendis almost retconned the Sentry's origin until another writer(forgot his name!) wrote Sentry's orogins back to the original so what Bendis wrote about Sentry wouldn't matter since it couldn't change anything. Just pointing that out.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here - Bendis is the last person to write anything of substance about the Sentry except for Jenkins' horrible funeral issue.

Bendis doesn't really understand the Sentry's orgins. Void and Sentry are just split personalities of Bob. Sentry=Good, Bob=Host, Void=Balance. Read Sentry's miniseries by Paul Jenkins the creator of Sentry. Bendis is NOT the creator of Sentry.

I dont think it matters whether Bendis "really understands" the Sentry's origins (and i dont think anyone really could at this stage) or whether he created the character. At this stage Bendis has pretty much written more of the Sentry's history in the MU than anyone else. He pretty much had the final say on the character and the last say on his origin to date. Not that he left things particularly clear in the end.

@Fifthchild said:

@cmartin said:

@Fifthchild said:

@cmartin said:

NO hulk is nowhere close or near to superman.. you hulk fans...........

And Hulks strength was stated to be incalculable a couple of issues ago.

Guess whats perfectly calculable - the weight of the Earth.

Hulk > Superman.

Seriously though this endless fascination with high end feats to the exclusion of everything else that everyone on comicvine seems to have gets really boring after awhile.

EXACTLY hulks strength has been DESCRIBED as KEY WORD described.... so has thors hercs .... supes

No the Mad Thinker tried to calculate the Hulk's strength and came to the conclusion that it was incalculable. Thats nothing like some narrative hyperbole or someone saying "Gosh Thor's strength is amazing". Thats a near Reed Richards class intellect essentially deriving a mathematical proof that the Hulk's strength is limitless.

And now that you mention it I've never seen Thor, Hercules or even Superman's strength described as limitless except perhaps by themselves. All have had hard limits and never been portrayed as characters who could lift anything. I recall Superman saying that if he hits anything long enough it will break while fighting the Infinity Man but thats about it.

hulk could hardly brace a mountain range 150 billion tons......

OK lets get some perspective.

Firstly the mountain range was described as a mountain range that dwarfed the Andes:

How big are the Andes? This big:

Yep - that big stretch of mountains covering the left side of the continent of South America.

Dwarfed.

Dropped on his head from miles above.

But more importantly this was quite possibly the weakest Hulk ever. It was the Banner Hulk who couldn't get stronger with anger. Now to be fair Banner was beginning to lose some of his control over the Hulk at this stage but its made clear in Secret Wars and many, many times in this point of his history that Hulk is not at his best:

please show me hulk lifting or moving earth..... we have clear scans of supes doing that.......

Sure. This has already been posted in this thread. Heres Hulk overcoming enough force to "change the orbit of a planet":

Gallery

You're welcome.

anyone can describe strength as limitless ...... lets see the feat....

What feat could "show limitless strength"?

superman is miles and by far stronger than hulk..... no contest.... he benched press eaty for 5 days straight and he asking is that all ... which means its light.. he wasnt straining

He was straining. Have a look at your own scans:

"Thats...it? Thats...all...you've...got?"

hulk isnt in that league or ball park...sorry... you hulk fans keep clinging to that infinite madder stronger garbage....its nonsense.. hulk lifts mountain ranges well braces it he couldnt lift it... super man moves earths.... bench presses it for dy no sweat...

class dismissed

The Hulk is stronger than Superman. Peter David believes this. Dan Jurgens believes this. John Byrne believes this. Roger Stern believes this. The Hulk was shown as able to achieve strength levels that matched Pre-Crisis Superman in the first crossover in which they met.

Superman is strong. The Hulk is stronger. Thats pretty much his power.

no hulk isnt stronger.... sperman moved a solar system come on guy...... punched out a sun... hulk is in no way shape or for on supes level ... sorry

pasting a map of a mountain ... isnt going to convince me.... and speculating it ran the length of brail meas nothing.... and they tried to make him mad he got mad as much as he could and he still could only brace it.... superman moves planets.. and has move earth on a few ocassions.......... please..... supes moves suns...... hulk coulnt even go anywhere close...

anyway im a thor fan....... so lets leave supes out of this he is in a class of his own

@Pyrogram said:

So, what is the general consensus of Thor's strength?

thor is strong but not written to showcase strength.... which is a big shame....

@cmartin: I don not value your opinion as you only view Thor for strength.

@cmartin

He was trying to show you Hulk was lifting something that made that south american mountain range look small in comparison.

@cmartin said:

no hulk isnt stronger.... sperman moved a solar system come on guy...... punched out a sun... hulk is in no way shape or for on supes level ... sorry

Um no he didnt. Have you ever read this scene? He pushed a miniature solar system. As in one about the size of a city block. I suppose it was a decentish feat in that the star was actively hurting him while he pushed it but it wasn't a huge mass - his main problem was moving the thing slowly enough so that he didnt push through the semi-solid star while in great pain.

I've got no idea what you are talking about when you say "punched out a sun".

pasting a map of a mountain ... isnt going to convince me.... and speculating it ran the length of brail meas nothing....

Thats not speculation. Thats the Andes that were apparently dwarfed by the mountain range that was dropped on the Hulk out of the freaking sky. The impact shook the entire planet.

and they tried to make him mad he got mad as much as he could and he still could only brace it....

Did you read my last post? That was the Banner Hulk. Guess what the Banner Hulk had lots of trouble doing? Getting angry.

superman moves planets.. and has move earth on a few ocassions..........

Nope. Superman has never moved a planet by himself Post-Crisis unless massively powered up. Up until the Nu-DCU at least.

But forget that. Lets use some other benchmarks to judge Supermans strength much as you, for whatever reason, have latched onto the mountain example as the be all and end all when it comes to the Hulk.

Heres Superman barely able to support some of the weight of a smallish building:

Gallery

Heres Superman (post Loeb power-ups) and several other Kryptonians unable to stop the descent of Braniac's ship:

Gallery

But of course such showings aren't used to benchmark Superman - he's a planet mover 24/7 !

please..... supes moves suns...... hulk coulnt even go anywhere close...

anyway im a thor fan....... so lets leave supes out of this he is in a class of his own

I suspect if more people read Superman they would have a much more realistic idea of his typical power-levels. As it is, when he isn't getting lowballed, he seems to get over-estimated to absurd proportions (Superman - sun mover), often by those who dont even like the character much.

@Fifthchild

That's the problem man. It seems most people don't actually read what they profess to know so much about!

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE IS:

A. no real logical reasoning.

B. no true knowledge of the comicbooks/characters in discussion.

C. And not knowing at the very least, the three laws of motion(basic physics!!).

This is what happens when you argue with misinformation, nonsense, lies,and hypocrisy. This is people trying to argue what is a non-existent point because it's based on logical fallacy.

If the ones who do this are really fans, then why don't you know about your character?Why do others know more about your character than you do?Maybe it's because you don't truly read the character, therefore you don't know the character because maybe you're not as big a fan of the character as you make it look or maybe you're not a fan AT ALL.

I know there are real comic book fans are out there. I only ask: Will the REAL comic book fans PLEASE STAND UP?!

@cmartin: agreed it true

@Pyrogram said:

@cmartin: I don not value your opinion as you only view Thor for strength.

not at all i love when thor is forced to use mjolnir....

but of late he just seems one dimension .. all hammer no fighting prowess....

also i didnt state you need to value my opinion... i dont necessarily value yours either... but this a forum for debate... i simply threw my perspective in the hat

..

kind regards

@sommyt said:

@cmartin: agreed it true

thank you bro

....... thru the years I have watched Marvel Rape many characters..... alas it is Thors turn. Soon it will end and Thor will say those famous words...... Have at Thee !!!!

@Fifthchild:

1. Yeah he lets it go when he's really mad.

2. Incorrect. I'm not contradicting myself, my point still stands. You're just not grasping that Nul was severely amped. Hulk was not at his normal level. Come on now...He was NOT Hulk.

3. Incorrect. Sentry's power has NOTHING to do with his state of confidence. Where did you get that from???? I already showed you a scan saying how Sentry's powers are tied to his mental state. ALL information on him states that. Its your words against the writers.

4. I already told you a thousand times when it Sentry is not mentally stable he does not have most of his powers. I already showed you a scan telling you this, but you tried to say handbooks are inaccurate, which is NOT always the case. Its your words against Marvel's.

5. You were saying Bendis saw Sentry and Bob as the same person...Which is somewhat true. But Bob, Void and Sentry are all split personalities sharing one body. Most writers who wrote Sentry state that except for Bendis. I was just stating that Bendis almosr rectonned Sentrys origin. And Bendis #&%@'ed up the Sentry more than anyone....

6. Jenkins had the last say with Sentry with his funeral issue, Yes Bendis wrote more about Sentry, but that doesn't get rid of how he messed the character up.. Sentry's origins are clear if people just read his miniseries.

@Sinfulplayerx said:

....... thru the years I have watched Marvel Rape many characters..... alas it is Thors turn. Soon it will end and Thor will say those famous words...... Have at Thee !!!!

Thor is usually raped when he is not in his comics. Read a Thor comic and you'll really see how badass and powerful he truly is.

@Sinfulplayerx said:

@King-Stranglehold da first: I agree. I also collect/read Thor comics. I was refering to the tie-ins/whoreing. I was refering to the cycle of Marvel with there whoring out of each years special characters. Thor is this years Wolverine and yester-years Ghost Rider ....... Luke Skywalker: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

LOL! Good point.

I dont think theres much point continuing to be honest but i will respond to this point:

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

@Fifthchild:

3. Incorrect. Sentry's power has NOTHING to do with his state of confidence. Where did you get that from????

...are you even reading what i'm posting? Maybe from that scan I posted on page 5 in which The Void states that if The Sentry lost his confidence his powerlevel would go down?

Anyway i dont think theres any point continuing as it doesnt look like anyones going to change their minds.

@Fifthchild said:

I dont think theres much point continuing to be honest but i will respond to this point:

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

@Fifthchild:

3. Incorrect. Sentry's power has NOTHING to do with his state of confidence. Where did you get that from????

...are you even reading what i'm posting? Maybe from that scan I posted on page 5 in which The Void states that if The Sentry lost his confidence his powerlevel would go down?

Anyway i dont think theres any point continuing as it doesnt look like anyones going to change their minds.

Incorrect. Void is mostly talking about emotions. Confidence being one emotion. If Sentry's powers were mostly based off his confidence than he would be like Gladiator.

Also...Just go down to Sentrys powers/abilities.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Robert_Reynolds_(Earth-616)

So we agree to disagree?

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

Incorrect. Void is mostly talking about emotions. Confidence being one emotion. If Sentry's powers were mostly based off his confidence than he would be like Gladiator.

Also...Just go down to Sentrys powers/abilities.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Robert_Reynolds_(Earth-616)

So we agree to disagree?

If your power goes up and down with your emotions then you arent going to be most powerful when you are "emotionally stable" - you will be more powerful when you are up/crazed/manic or as The Void indicated super-confident. And yes thats pretty similar to Gladiator. People taking the Handbooks as some kind of gospel is why we have people making absurd arguments about Thor being able to lift millions of tons while the Hulk starts off lifting 70 tons or what have you.

Yeah i think we will have to agree to disagree.

@Fifthchild said:

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

Incorrect. Void is mostly talking about emotions. Confidence being one emotion. If Sentry's powers were mostly based off his confidence than he would be like Gladiator.

Also...Just go down to Sentrys powers/abilities.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Robert_Reynolds_(Earth-616)

So we agree to disagree?

If your power goes up and down with your emotions then you arent going to be most powerful when you are "emotionally stable" - you will be more powerful when you are up/crazed/manic or as The Void indicated super-confident. And yes thats pretty similar to Gladiator. People taking the Handbooks as some kind of gospel is why we have people making absurd arguments about Thor being able to lift millions of tons while the Hulk starts off lifting 70 tons or what have you.

Yeah i think we will have to agree to disagree.

Uh..I really do not prefer using handbooks. I just used the Marvel handbook to to back up my point with Sentry's powers being based off his mental state. And you're statement with being emotionally crazed/manic is incorrect. When Sentry was like that he was shown to be weak and getting beat by people like Human Torch Jim) which was PIS. But when he was emotionally and mentally stable he was taking on powerful people like Photon and holding back. When Sentry emotionally unstable, the Void just takes control over and he becomes more powerful. Sentry becomes weak and Void stronger.

Interesting debating with you.

@King-Stranglehold da first: Beyonder states that the hulk has potential for infinite strength, dont know which comic though.

@Epicbeast3000 said:

@King-Stranglehold da first: Beyonder states that the hulk has potential for infinite strength, dont know which comic though.

As I already stated before the Beyonder story has been retconned.

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

@Fifthchild said:

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

Incorrect. Void is mostly talking about emotions. Confidence being one emotion. If Sentry's powers were mostly based off his confidence than he would be like Gladiator.

Also...Just go down to Sentrys powers/abilities.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Robert_Reynolds_(Earth-616)

So we agree to disagree?

If your power goes up and down with your emotions then you arent going to be most powerful when you are "emotionally stable" - you will be more powerful when you are up/crazed/manic or as The Void indicated super-confident. And yes thats pretty similar to Gladiator. People taking the Handbooks as some kind of gospel is why we have people making absurd arguments about Thor being able to lift millions of tons while the Hulk starts off lifting 70 tons or what have you.

Yeah i think we will have to agree to disagree.

Uh..I really do not prefer using handbooks. I just used the Marvel handbook to to back up my point with Sentry's powers being based off his mental state. And you're statement with being emotionally crazed/manic is incorrect. When Sentry was like that he was shown to be weak and getting beat by people like Human Torch Jim) which was PIS. But when he was emotionally and mentally stable he was taking on powerful people like Photon and holding back. When Sentry emotionally unstable, the Void just takes control over and he becomes more powerful. Sentry becomes weak and Void stronger.

Interesting debating with you.

OK i know i said i was done....firstly its not just my statement. Its more or less what The Void says in that scene. Secondly i've never seen anything to indicate that Sentry was crazed/manic when he had to flee from the Human Torch android.

Sentry's most emotionally stable period was probably the Avengers/Mighty Avengers period where Sentry was kind of bland and there. At those levels Sentry is pretty much a standard top tier IMO, about as powerful as Superman. Pretty much all of Sentry's worst showings (humiliated by Hercules, run off by Human Torch, made to look a bit silly by She-Hulk) come from this state, where he is the disinterested, passive "powerful guy on team".

I think his She-Ultron fight shows this pretty well. When he's just normal Sentry he does OK against her. After he flips out he's all but tearing her head off and ends up bringing his wife back to life without even knowing how. I see you've said that in this state "The Sentry gets weak and The Void gets strong" and i suppose thats one way to look at it but if that is in fact true then if you are fighting him and he goes nut-so he's not getting weaker, which was the whole argument in the first place with regards to World War Hulk. But mostly its hard to reconcile with those showings where he didn't look great where one would be very hard pressed to describe his mental state as manic.

Yes it has been interesting. FWIW i was unaware of/had forgotten that Handbook entry so that was interesting to see and kind of explains where the whole "mentally stable" thing came from.

@Fifthchild: Hulk's strength :