This is how i feel about Thor and Superman Strength debate ..

i do not agree That Superman is Stronger Than Thor however i do believe that Thor does not showcase his strength as much as Superman ....

Thor is a powerful being ....however Marvel writers do not like writing him as such anymore .however dc writers keep superman at a level of consistency ...

Strength /.

Thor has lifted millions of tons without effort ..he lifted the midgard serpent ,He hurled the Odin-sword, a weapon of incalculable weight through a celestial. If anyone doesn't know what a celestial is, google it. They are unimaginably powerful beings, whose armor is of unknown compostion, presumably like Marvel's adamantium, which is unbreakable.Thor sent an Alien with such physical force that he went literally flying through Earth’s Orbit and straight outside our Solar System-JIM-#90; J)

he pushed the world tree ..which holds the 9 realms .. he has crumbled uru to dust with his hands...another thing is mjolnir is not a weak link with Thor without mjlonir Thor is still Thor

here he fights juggernaut and breaks his armor ..and would have killed him with one more hit Thor did all this with his bare hands ..infact The only thing mjolnir does for Thor is allow him to travel at vast speeds ..he can control the weather he can use his energy powers without mjolnir ..he has even performed a god blast without mjolnir ...however mjolnir allows him to focus these powers and control them in a more suitable fashion ..hence making them more powerful....

Speed /. flying

Thor is not slow both reaction and running and flying

Thor cathes ego who was moving at 5000x the speed of light and he even outraces him as ego struggles to catch him ...he also states he did this quite easily

Thor's Flying speed is greater than superman as shown here

Speed/.running

Superman is faster but just to prove that Thor is not as slow as people think ..

here he reacts before the avengers can see even quicksilver was present ..he has ran so fast that hela comments on him being as fast as the lightning he commands ...however superman is still faster in this aspect ...and Thors superspeed is not as pronunced as his ..

speed/.reaction

Thorhasreacted to so fast to the silver surfer that the surfer starts to question his speed ......

..so he is not as slow as many people claim...

Superpowers /..

if used in an effective manner Thor by a long shot ....why use super breath ..which Thor has demonstrated ..when i can use winds from a 1000 worlds that hurt abstract beings ...

why use heat vision if i can use lightning that can hurt a god that has absorbed 99.98% of the multiuniverse ...or the godblast or the anti matter anti force solar flares (twice the heat of the sun) cosmic energy ..life force ..transmutation of element s etc ... even magnetism like that off magneto..

last one i will deal with is durabilty..

The following are historical examples of incredibly devastating forces that has been used against Thor. Thor has survived each of these highly Lethal attacks, and most of the time have come out unscathed. A) Thor has been on the receiving end of Zeus and Blitziana's LIGHTNING bolts. B) Thor withstood a barrage of ARTILLARY fire with ease, and a Heat Seeking Missile- see Thor#480, and Thor-#247; C) and in the J. Kirby's days Thor used to test his invulnerability by having a Cobalt Bomb explode next to him. D) Kang’s Dissolution blast to the EXTREME did not fell Thor-Avengers-#143, and in Avengers-#295 Mechanosaurus struck Thor with a Megahertz Artillery fire that would easily destroy any vehicle to pieces- with no visible effect on Thor (Note: even bullets from a powerful sub-machine gun can’t hope to accomplish the same amount of penetration or destruction that could a Megahertz artillery attack by Mechnanosaurus). In Avengers-#5-pg 20- it explicitly stated that nothing, not even an ATOMIC BLAST could injure Thor, or his hammer. E) Thor resisted the full power of the Man from Saturn’s Graviton ray-Thor-#255. F) Thor withstood the Thermal Man's HEAT blast that could melt Tanks instantly, also, Thor was insensitive to the Lava Man's attack- see Avengers #5. In addition, Thor withstood a direct hit by Firelord’s Cosmic Flame with absolutely no dire visible effect on him- Thor-#306, and Ghost Rider’s Flame proved to be totally ineffectual against Thor, as well- Avengers-#214, and when the Planet Ego raised his internal heat temperature to the EXTREME, it had no affect on Thor-See Thor-#133. G) Thor was unaffected by an Alien Freeze Ray-Avengers-#14 (vol.1). H) In terms of indescribable sheer Magical, and Cosmic power, for instance, Thor was just temporarily stunned by Ego’s pulsating energy attack that would, physically, have rendered AN ENTIRE RACE UNCOUNSCIOUS- Thor-#133. In addition, Thor withstood blast by Odin-Thor-#241, by the Celestials-Thor-#300, and by a space Armada-Avengers-Annual#7. However, the three most impressive testimony events that showed Thor's invulnerability, however, was when he, almost, took a direct hit by a Doomsday Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire planet, and soon after that explosion Thor felt from space to a planet called Pangoria-see Thor#387. Also, Thor resisted the weight of Multitude of Planets-Thor Annual-#9, and the Gravity of a Neutron Star-Thor-#282. The other event took place when Thor paid an uninvited visit to ATUM in the Sun's core. If you think that this wasn’t enough, Thor has survive incredible physical punishment by the likes of the Destroyer, Durok, the Mangog, Surtur- Thor-#351, by the Devourer-Marvel Two In One-#23, The Thermal Man, Terminus, the 300,000 ft. tall Rhun god when he swatted Thor aside-Thor#220, and the Celestial- The One Above All- when he not only swatted Thor aside, but did hurled at him unnumbered tons of delicate machinery at him with no significant adverse effect on Thor-See Thor-#288

Strength level

Class 100+ ; Thor possesses infinite physical strength, he is able to lift far in excess of 100 tons effortlessly. He has shown enough strength to move and lift objects that are as heavy as the Earth and shatter entire planets with his blows. Thor is physically one of the strongest beings to ever walk the Earth and one of the most physically powerful beings in the Universe. It should be known that Thor is physically stronger then the Hulk as he is one of very few beings who are capable of over powering & even killing the Hulk..

SO NOOOOO I DONT BELIEVE SUPERMAN OR WONDER WOMAN CAN BEAT THOR ...

THE ONLY PLACE I KNOW SUPERMAN BEATS THOR IS IN RUNNING SPEED ...

THOR HAS FOUGHT BEINGS LIKE ELDER GODS ( IT SHOULD ALSO BE NOTED THAT THOR HIMSELF IS (HALF ELDER GOD/ASGARDIAN ) A VERY UNIQUE BIOLOGY THAT GRANTS AN UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT OF POWER AS STATED BY ODIN HIMSELF ...... WONDER WOMAN GETS HER POWERS FROM THE GODS ELDER GODS >THAN EARTH GODS THE MAN OF STEEL VS THE GOD OF THUNDER YOUR CALL....

WHILE I CANNOT CHANGE YOUR OPINION I WANT TO SAY ...RESPECT THOR

@TheAmazingImmortalMan: its not CANON

@sommyt: lol i know just felt like posting it just to show my opinion,

Superman has benchpressed the earth for 5 days with no yelow sun around,and that is new52 not even pre52),I think you are underestimating Supes strength just a bit, I don't think Thor is a 'slowpoke' a you put it or is completely outclassed by Supes in the strength dept. but I don't think Thor can beat him. Will it be a good fight? It'd be great everytime! but IMO Superman will eventually be the victor.

@TheAmazingImmortalMan: benching the earth is Weak compared to Pushing yggdrasil the world engine Earth hangs on one off yggdrasils branches ....yggdrasil holds the 9 realms

@Omega-Man : if we start looking at Thors strenght feats vs the hulks Thor is far greater in strenght ...The midgard serpent wrapped around earth multiple time and could crush it Thor ovrpowers it breaks its grip and lifts it ....

The Odinsword Thor lifts a sword so large the weight could not be calculated by odin ..the god of wisdom ...then he hurls it thru a celestial ..go read on celestial armor and how durable it is...he has crumbled uru to dust with his hand the asgardian equivalent of adamantium ...

he pushed the world tree against its will the world tree holds the 9 realms earth is like a fruit on 1 of its branches ...

and the the stated

Book of Infinite Knowledge, a book that weighs the same as all life ever,

Thor lifts the book of infinite knowlede the weight is infinite .......he does this ALONE i am looking for the scan

@sommyt said:

Strength level

Class 100+ ; Thor possesses infinite physical strength, he is able to lift far in excess of 100 tons effortlessly. He has shown enough strength to move and lift objects that are as heavy as the Earth and shatter entire planets with his blows. Thor is physically one of the strongest beings to ever walk the Earth and one of the most physically powerful beings in the Universe. It should be known that Thor is physically stronger then the Hulk as he is one of very few beings who are capable of over powering & even killing the Hulk..

Thor doesn't have infinite physical strength. He should be able to lift 100 tons effortlessly - unless some writer is taking the Handbooks to literally (occasionally happens) this is nothing to these guys. The idea about moving things as heavy as the Earth is a bit dubious but not totally unreasonable given his highest feats and what others of his peers have sometimes done.

Thor isn't stronger than the Hulk though. Depending on how Hulk's healing factor was shown he could defeat and even kill Hulk but that goes both ways.

WHILE I CANNOT CHANGE YOUR OPINION I WANT TO SAY ...RESPECT THOR

Thor is very powerful and should be respected.

@Omega-Man said:

@sommyt:

I'm not trying to under sell Superman or Thor, I actually like Thor. But when it comes to strength Thor has been more inconsistent than Superman has. If he was as powerful as some of his strength feats why does he have problems with other powerful characters if he out powers them? these include Thanos and even Hulk. And Superman has lifted infinite twice the book is the second time he did that the first time was when he lifted Spectre His weight was was said to be infinite also.

At least Superman's strength level can be stated why he can't lift one thing but then can lift another and thats due to how much sun light he has absorbed. Though 52 Superman has shown to be far more powerful than he used to be, since under normal means Superman could move a planet but it did drain him. but when sun dipped he could easily play vollyball with them. But for 52 Superman thats not the case anymore he can easily move a planet without getting drained as easily and without sun dipping and it pretty much shows he can lift more than a planet as he said he could handle more weight than that but unfortunately the weight scale didn't go any higher than the planet itself.

But hopefully more large feats are to come in Superman #17 since he's facing Oracle who's seems to be either Galatus or above level.

But then again I'll also have to say I hope DC don't make him seem over powered I mean if Thor is stronger all the best to him and I hope he doesn't get hated on for being over powered like Superman often is by ignorant people.

Oh and a litle off topic from strength, you also said about running speed Superman is faster than Thor in speed at FTL and reactions Thor has never displayed being able to phase through attacks like he has or move fast in one place to turn invisible.

^pretty much

@sommyt said:

@TheAmazingImmortalMan: benching the earth is Weak compared to Pushing yggdrasil the world engine Earth hangs on one off yggdrasils branches ....yggdrasil holds the 9 realms

I can push a boulder but I can't bench it.

@TrueMarvel said:

@TheAmazingImmortalMan said:

Widely regarded as extreme PIS by many fans of both characters.

that's why I said

@TheAmazingImmortalMan said:

@sommyt: lol i know just felt like posting it just to show my opinion,

@TrueMarvel said:

@TheAmazingImmortalMan:

@TheAmazingImmortalMan said:

@sommyt: lol i know just felt like posting it just to show my opinion,

Superman has benchpressed the earth for 5 days with no yelow sun around,and that is new52 not even pre52),I think you are underestimating Supes strength just a bit, I don't think Thor is a 'slowpoke' a you put it or is completely outclassed by Supes in the strength dept. but I don't think Thor can beat him. Will it be a good fight? It'd be great everytime! but IMO Superman will eventually be the victor.

You say that as if New 52 superman is weaker... Thats actually not true. New 52 superman is actually buffed.

I didn't say anything just pointing out pre52 Supes has more strength feats

@Pyrogram: thank you

@Fifthchild: infinite and unlimited are diffrent ...infinite means

unlimited means ...Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent

THORS STRENGTH HAS BEEN SAID ON MANY OCCASIONS THAT HIS STRENGTH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CALCULATE

@sommyt said:

@Fifthchild: infinite and unlimited are diffrent ...infinite means

Limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; IMPOSSIBLE TO MEASURE OR CALCULATE "an infinite number of stars"

unlimited means ...Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent

THORS STRENGTH HAS BEEN SAID ON MANY OCCASIONS THAT HIS STRENGTH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CALCULATE

So has superman's, and he has shown it far more often than Thor. You see my problem with your argument is this, Superman remains consistent while all I see in Thor's defense are the same feats from over 10 years ago. To be honest if Thor was really as powerful as you and some other fan's make him out to be, there would be no threat Thor could not handle, fact is he simply isn't. I don't know why it is so essential that he be placed on or above Superman's league, or why is he constantly compared to a guy who does everything with his bare hands. I mean let's face it without the hammer Thor is nothing and even with it lately he still struggles. I have seen Thor struggle with everybody from Super Skrull to The Sentry, and that's with his hammer.

In fact during the World War Hulk Arc there was so much Hyperbole about the strongest beings to help in the fight against The War Bound, I heard Sentry's name come up, I heard Black Bolts name come up but nobody mentioned Thor. I mean if this guy is so Galaxy level powerful why wasn't anybody focusing on bringing him into the fight? Was it because he was dead? Of course not because the Thor your describing could and should never have been killed. Bottom line as far as I'm concerned as long as Thor keeps getting smacked around by the Hulk, he's not fit to be placed to Superman. I mean in the end this is all just my opinion, but honestly I thought Sentry was stronger than Thor and he's much more closer to Superman.

@Postacrat:

Online Now

first off all Thor was dead during that moment infact marvel said that sentry was considered the most powerful superhero but it was because Thor was done ...do u know that sentry is dead guess who killed him THOR

and u say Thor is nothing without his hammer bahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha so funny because the only thing mjolnir does for Thor is allow him to focus his weather control and channel godly energies more effectively ...He also uses it to fly at above 5000X the speed of light ...so mjolnir is like saying captain america is nothing without the sheild unless your dis·il·lu·sioned mind is telling you captain america is physically stronger with the sheild .....

i will agree with one thing ...Superman shows his strenght more often

this is the sentry's strength level

Superhuman Strength: The Sentry's strength varies greatly and depends on his mental stability. The Sentry possesses vast superhuman strength, granting him the ability to lift (press) far in excess of 100 tons easily. He is one of the strongest beings in the Universe. He has demonstrated several astonishing feats of strength during his career, including easily lifting tremendous weights, rippingCarnage in two (although it is not certain if he is dead), taking Terraxthe Tamer's cosmic axe and shattering it with his bare hands, lifting a cruise liner effortlessly and his unrestrained power overloaded theAbsorbing Man. While possessed by The Void he was able to break the Hulk's limbs with relative ease and was even able to easily overpower and defeat Ares in combat going so far he ripped him in half, presumably killing him. He can also absorb solar radiation for additional strength. His clash with the most powerful incarnation of the Hulk has suggested his physical prowess is among the elite as he was able not only to hold his own but he even gained an advantage before losing the control of his powers . The Sentry has yet to demonstrate an upper-limit to his strength, but he has shown that it can rival the likes of the Hulk, and even those of gods like Thor or Herculesthemselves although this depends on his mental state.

Class 100+; the Sentry possesses limitless superhuman strength enabling him to lift well over 100 tons easily.

@TheAmazingImmortalMan: supes lifted an object that could be calculated by man the weight ..Thor lifted an object that could not be calculated by odin the god of wisdom and then he hurls it through unbreakable armor .....

@sommyt said:

@Postacrat:

Online Now

first off all Thor was dead during that moment infact marvel said that sentry was considered the most powerful superhero but it was because Thor was done ...do u know that sentry is dead guess who killed him THOR

and u say Thor is nothing without his hammer bahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha so funny because the only thing mjolnir does for Thor is allow him to focus his weather control and channel godly energies more effectively ...He also uses it to fly at above 5000X the speed of light ...so mjolnir is like saying captain america is nothing without the sheild unless your dis·il·lu·sioned mind is telling you captain america is physically stronger with the sheild .....

i will agree with one thing ...Superman shows his strenght more often

this is the sentry's strength level

Superhuman Strength: The Sentry's strength varies greatly and depends on his mental stability. The Sentry possesses vast superhuman strength, granting him the ability to lift (press) far in excess of 100 tons easily. He is one of the strongest beings in the Universe. He has demonstrated several astonishing feats of strength during his career, including easily lifting tremendous weights, rippingCarnage in two (although it is not certain if he is dead), taking Terraxthe Tamer's cosmic axe and shattering it with his bare hands, lifting a cruise liner effortlessly and his unrestrained power overloaded theAbsorbing Man. While possessed by The Void he was able to break the Hulk's limbs with relative ease and was even able to easily overpower and defeat Ares in combat going so far he ripped him in half, presumably killing him. He can also absorb solar radiation for additional strength. His clash with the most powerful incarnation of the Hulk has suggested his physical prowess is among the elite as he was able not only to hold his own but he even gained an advantage before losing the control of his powers . The Sentry has yet to demonstrate an upper-limit to his strength, but he has shown that it can rival the likes of the Hulk, and even those of gods like Thor or Herculesthemselves although this depends on his mental state.

Class 100+; the Sentry possesses limitless superhuman strength enabling him to lift well over 100 tons easily.

You did read the Dark Avengers right? You know the part when the Dark Avengers attacked the great and mighty Asgard filled with mighty Asgardians who didn't seem so mighty at the time? If you read that book than I'm sure you clearly saw Thor getting battered by Sentry, I mean come on he could hardly handle him, in fact the only reason why Thor killed him is because the Robert Reynolds ALLOWED it period. He begged Thor to kill him, probably because he was getting bored to death from tearing asgardians in half just ask Aries. I said what I said about the hammer because it's the truth, on paper if we are talking about things Thor could possibly do or has done before on rare occasions then ok, but guess what there are more showings of Thor getting wrecked without that hammer than there are with it except for recently when he's been getting wrecked even with it. The God Blast has done nothing lately but make people angry, and as of late it finishes no opponents off unless it's plot associated which is the only real thing on Thor's side, Old Scan's, Plot and a whole crap load of Hyperbole.

Lastly I already stated the fact that Thor was dead during World War Hulk, my point was if he's so powerful like you and so many other make him out to be how could he be dead. Your Thor is a God who is Galaxy level powerful thousands of times faster than the speed of light and stronger than Superman, Sentry, and Hulk combined so there should be nobody who can kill this Thor, yet and still while the people he's supposedly stronger than faced the Hulk the mightiest and best chance was dead. I'm not trying to low ball Thor, I do regard him as a power house, but this guy is not that powerful. Make whatever cases you want about those old scan's because I have some old scan's where Thor is not looking so good, but we are talking about right now and right now Thor is nothing to Superman...

@Postacrat: this is complete ignorance NOOOOOO BODY says Thor cant die even odin has been killed the fact is Thor can die just not like u superman fanboys claim he would ......

The fact is that Thor was beating sentry when he transformed to the void ....Thor had already suffered damage from powerfull superhumans that got their powers amped by the norn stones ...when he transformed to void bob was no longer in control ...bob did not allow it as he was not in control off that form ...Then Thor kills him ...and do not compare Thor to ares Ares is a 70 tonner he is not that immpresive as Thor has beaten Ares and pluto combined easily and they had to flee....

Thor has done these BEating the juggernaut within an inch off his life

without his hammer ...and there is no account that support this argument that Thor is weaker without mjolnir

@sommyt said:

@Postacrat: this is complete ignorance NOOOOOO BODY says Thor cant die even odin has been killed the fact is Thor can die just not like u superman fanboys claim he would ......

The fact is that Thor was beating sentry when he transformed to the void ....Thor had already suffered damage from powerfull superhumans that got their powers amped by the norn stones ...when he transformed to void bob was no longer in control ...bob did not allow it as he was not in control off that form ...Then Thor kills him ...and do not compare Thor to ares Ares is a 70 tonner he is not that immpresive as Thor has beaten Ares and pluto combined easily and they had to flee....

Thor has done these BEating the juggernaut within an inch off his life

without his hammer ...and there is no account that support this argument that Thor is weaker without mjolnir

Call me a Superman fan all you want, it's true I am. However when it comes to be able to back my claims up I can with a Superman book I bought yesterday, while your still talking about decade old scan's of feats that where very circumstantial and totally unable to be quantified. If these feats were something Thor could commit to all the time like Superman's Strength, Speed, Heat Vision, Cold Breath, Invulnerability, high level of intelligencen then maybe your case would be stronger but he doesn't so it's not. Thor was never beating Sentry, he was getting wrecked even with mjolnir included. Your just making excuses for Thor,and that's one thing "Superman fans" don't have to do. Besides it's not like Thor was the only person Sentry was fighting either, he was fighting half of the earths hero's and Thor at the same d*mn time at the same d*mn good avengers bad avengers at the same d*man time lmao.. I read Siege Robert Reynolds allowed Thor to kill him, you and I weren't reading to different books that is exactly what happened.

Only thing I see consistently with Thor as of late is the fact that when it comes to anybody from Hulk to Rulk he get's smashed unless his trusty hammer helps him, don't jump on my case over it I didn't write the books I just read them. Ok he beat Juggernaut that's a good feet old but good, then he can't beat the hulk? Lastly it's not that I'm implying Thor should be able to easily die, but based off of the power levels you believe him to have he never should. Now I'm not saying Thor is weak but he is nothing to Superman without Mjolnir. I don't have to even prove it that hard just pick up a book from either character the feats are right there for you to see in colored ink....

@Postacrat: Did you read the Avengers Disassembled arc where Thor dies? I did. He wasn't killed, he allowed himself to die. By the end of the series he was tired of the endless reincarnations that the Asgardians took to placate those who sit above in shadow so after he ended their schemes, he became one with the universe. So saying "if he's so powerful like you and so many other make him out to be how could he be dead" doesn't not help your cause. Why? Because he is so powerful that not only could he simply decide to die, he is also so powerful he could simply decide to live too.

@sommyt: You are not helping your cause here either because while you do a decent job of showcasing some of Thor's strengths, you do not really offer any type of direct comparison to Superman. Also your narratives are either derived from wikis/comicvine, the Marvel handbooks, or your opinion, none of which are really valid authorities. If you are going to debate something like this, you have to offer arguments, not possitions. "Exhibit a is Superman's high end feat, exhibit b is Thor's high end feat".

The problem you are going to have though is, being a character that has his background rooted in mythology, most of Thor's high end feats are metaphorical. He pushed the world tree. He lifted the Midgard serpent. He threw the Odin Sword, Great, but until you can quantify that in any real measure or show Superman failing to do something similar, its just going to get laughed at. Its like all the arguements for Hercules and his lifting the heavens feat. Cool deal, but really, how much does air weigh?

Superman, however, is a science-based character so his high end feats are generally very quantifiable. When I see the scan of his bench-pressing the equivilent weight of the Earth for five days strait, there is nothing metaphrical about it, its a number I can go back to. Most times he is shown flying, its also telling you how fast he is going.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Thor and Superman are pretty comparible strength wise, but its not from a comparison of feats or anything as analyical as that. Its because Superman inhabits the same bracket in the DC universe that Thor does in the Marvel universe. Its as simple as that.

@sommyt: LMAO It should be noted that though I am a fan of Superman I am not a hater of Thor, but I have to get this off of my chest I have always hated his costume. The Helmet makes it even worse I don't know why, I would just rather him have his hair long and flowing. Lastly I hate hammers because I think they are the most non coolest of melee weapons, they have no style or finesse just brute force, if he had a battle axe like Thunderstrike he would be that much cooler to me but then he wouldn't be Thor :(

@Postacrat: Thunderstrike had a mace, not a battleaxe.

@Enyalios said:

@Postacrat: Did you read the Avengers Disassembled arc where Thor dies? I did. He wasn't killed, he allowed himself to die. By the end of the series he was tired of the endless reincarnations that the Asgardians took to placate those who sit above in shadow so after he ended their schemes, he became one with the universe. So saying "if he's so powerful like you and so many other make him out to be how could he be dead" doesn't not help your cause. Why? Because he is so powerful that not only could he simply decide to die, he is also so powerful he could simply decide to live too.

@sommyt: You are not helping your cause here either because while you do a decent job of showcasing some of Thor's strengths, you do not really offer any type of direct comparison to Superman. Also your narratives are either derived from wikis/comicvine, the Marvel handbooks, or your opinion, none of which are really valid authorities. If you are going to debate something like this, you have to offer arguments, not possitions. "Exhibit a is Superman's high end feat, exhibit b is Thor's high end feat".

The problem you are going to have though is, being a character that has his background rooted in mythology, most of Thor's high end feats are metaphorical. He pushed the world tree. He lifted the Midgard serpent. He threw the Odin Sword, Great, but until you can quantify that in any real measure or show Superman failing to do something similar, its just going to get laughed at. Its like all the arguements for Hercules and his lifting the heavens feat. Cool deal, but really, how much does air weigh?

Superman, however, is a science-based character so his high end feats are generally very quantifiable. When I see the scan of his bench-pressing the equivilent weight of the Earth for five days strait, there is nothing metaphrical about it, its a number I can go back to. Most times he is shown flying, its also telling you how fast he is going.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Thor and Superman are pretty comparible strength wise, but its not from a comparison of feats or anything as analyical as that. Its because Superman inhabits the same bracket in the DC universe that Thor does in the Marvel universe. Its as simple as that.

I disagree my case was made, Thor chose to die but that isn't a show of power that was simply a choice he made. Just because Thor Chose to die in order to end Ragnarok doesn't mean he was so powerful that he could not be killed otherwise nor does it mean he's so powerful that he can choose rather or not he dies. Thor was tired of the repetitive cycle and chose to end it, I fail to see how that correlates into power. I mean you pretty much told this gentlemen every thing I've been saying through out this thread, it's ok to disagree about the "If Thor is so powerful" point but my case was indeed made.

@Enyalios said:

@Postacrat: Thunderstrike had a mace, not a battleaxe.

So that wasn't a battle axe that he used to knock off the Juggernauts helmet? I do remember him having a mace (a weapon that also sucks but still better than the hammer) but for a time he did have a battle axe my friend, he used it to slow down Juggs.

@Postacrat: No your case was not made. Thor choose to/willed himself into nothingness. Then he willed himself back into the world of the living. The only time Thor legitamately dies is from the Serpent, Odin's older brother that even Odin could not kill. And guess what? He willed himself back from that too.

You're talking about the Blood Axe. He had that for a very short time, something like 3 or 4 issues of his comic. He used it in tandum with the mace but the mace was still his primary weapon. Off hand I don't remember which weapon he used during his altercation with the Juggernaut since that was not the cool part of the story. The cool part was them walking away as almost friends when Juggernaut was still a villan.

As for your talks about the hammer...eh, if you say so. Superman thought it was pretty cool.

@Postacrat: Hunted through Thunderstrike's picture archive here and it was the blood axe he used to cleave Juggernaut's helmet from him.

@Enyalios said:

@Postacrat: No your case was not made. Thor choose to/willed himself into nothingness. Then he willed himself back into the world of the living. The only time Thor legitamately dies is from the Serpent, Odin's older brother that even Odin could not kill. And guess what? He willed himself back from that too.

You're talking about the Blood Axe. He had that for a very short time, something like 3 or 4 issues of his comic. He used it in tandum with the mace but the mace was still his primary weapon. Off hand I don't remember which weapon he used during his altercation with the Juggernaut since that was not the cool part of the story. The cool part was them walking away as almost friends when Juggernaut was still a villan.

As for your talks about the hammer...eh, if you say so. Superman thought it was pretty cool.

Well that's where Superman and I differ lol. However I think superman just appreciated the Power, not so much the fact that it was a hammer. Yes the Blood Axe and I did say he had it for a time, and for a time Thunderstrike was a lot cooler looking with it. Also he used the Axe to stop Juggernaut I have the book. I believe the axe was evil though.

Again yes my case was made because none of the things you are stating correlates into power. What your stating is that Thor can Die and come back to life whenever he chooses. One that has never been stated as one of his abilities. Two there were very special circumstance associated with that "Sleep" Thor was in. Three there is a lot of mystical and magical reasoning with a lot of the things that Thor does, some are plot driven some are in fit's of desperation but known of them can be counted as consistent feats because like you said they are metaphorical and cannot be quantified. Superman came back from the dead too can we make him out to be almighty or does that just count for Thor?

what I believe is they are equal but Superman being slightly stronger. What I mean by that is if Superman's a ten Thor is a 9.

@Postacrat: First it does not matter if something is a stated power if it is demonstrated. Thor as shown has died a total of two times in the Marvel Universe and in each of those occurances, he brought himself back to life. So even if the Marvel Handbooks, Comicvine, or all the millions of wikis choose never to include it in Thor's write ups, its irrelovent because its a demonstrated feat. And "plot driven fits of desperation" are hardly unique to Thor. Look at the way Superman was brought back to life. And on that note, no you could not use Superman returning from the dead as a means of demonstrating any sort of power Superman has because it was Eradicator that brought him back. So you could use it as a representation of Eradicator's intelligence, technological superiority or just the knowledge that dead kryptonians can be brought back to life by high tech suntanning beds, but the ability to be brought back to life by someone else is hardly impressive.

@Enyalios said:

@Postacrat: First it does not matter if something is a stated power if it is demonstrated. Thor as shown has died a total of two times in the Marvel Universe and in each of those occurances, he brought himself back to life. So even if the Marvel Handbooks, Comicvine, or all the millions of wikis choose never to include it in Thor's write ups, its irrelovent because its a demonstrated feat. And "plot driven fits of desperation" are hardly unique to Thor. Look at the way Superman was brought back to life. And on that note, no you could not use Superman returning from the dead as a means of demonstrating any sort of power Superman has because it was Eradicator that brought him back. So you could use it as a representation of Eradicator's intelligence, technological superiority or just the knowledge that dead kryptonians can be brought back to life by high tech suntanning beds, but the ability to be brought back to life by someone else is hardly impressive.

Yes it does matter it just doesn't matter to you because you strike me as one of those types that grasps for straws when it comes to what Thor can and can't do based off of feats that are inconsistent and again plot driven. I don't care what's in the handbooks or databases personally I care about what I have read in the comics books. and Thor coming back to life under vague circumstances which again are highly metaphorical does not constitute to me as something Thor can just do whenever he wants. Both of Thor's "deaths" had a lot of magical and metaphorical connotation to them, in fact the time he "died" stopping Ragnarok was hinted more towards a deep sleep than outright death. Both cases it was made clear that Thor would return. The only reason why you wanna give Thor's revival more credit than Superman's is for the same reason why Superman's feats are regarded as better than Thor's, because it can be quantified or explained through a scientific rhetoric relevant to it's respective comic book universe it's there it's visible so you can pick it apart, while Thor's revivals are more ambiguous and filled with so much magical hyperbole you can blow his abilities completely out of proportion. Your pulling out all the stops to make Thor to be this all powerful being when he can't even handle The Sentry, Hulk, and occasionally let's wolverine give him trouble three people he shouldn't have problems with based off of your power levels but your not alone in that regard. In the end all we can do is state our cases and though Thor is powerful he's not nor will he ever be as strong as Superman, cause after all that's all your trying to prove. I'll tell you the same thing I told so many others if Thor is more powerful than Superman show me Scan's that aren't 10 years old or more and prove it. I promise you you won't find one scan that even stands to Superman bench pressing the earth for five day's straight without Sunlight, that scan alone put's him comfortably above Thor.

@Postacrat: i agree with u to a degree whoever i dont think thor is still not thor ..but i do think that it is a huge amount of pis ...

@Postacrat: What are you talking about? First this conversation started up when you said something along the lines of "if Thor was so great how did he die" (never mind the fact that Superman has been killed) which then brought up the point that, yes he may have died, but he returned. I'm sorry if Thor does not die as easily and as often as some other heroes, but the fact remains, after each one of his deaths, he returned under his own power. What's more, these feats even meet your own criteria of "don't talk about things from 10 years ago" since both incidents occured within the last nine years. There is not grasping at straws here, no reading into what happened or anything else. Its there, plain as day. It can't even be called inconsistent because Thor is two for two at this. Its not even that implausible considering all the Asgardians have been killed and reincarnated multiple times and Thor has demonstrated (again well within the last ten years) the ability to return other Asgardians back to life.

I'm not giving more credit to Thor's revival than Superman's. The Return of Superman happens to be one of my favorite stories, I reread it again just last month. I am, however, giving more credit to Thor FOR his revival than I am to Superman for his because the only part he played in it was he died and left a corpse that Eradicator could play with. Superman himself has no part in it. Hell, Superman didn't even play a part in getting his powers back, again that was Eradicator.

And yes, much of what Thor has done is filled with, as you call it "magical hyperbole" but would be because (DUH!) he is a freaking GOD. Everything about his existance is magic. A lot of his stories are ripped right out of Norse Mythology. It would be very strange if his feats were not somehow interlaced with magic, just like it would be strange if Superman started summoning magic fireballs out of nowhere. If Ragnarok ever becomes a major character you'll probably see a mixture of magic and science with him considering that's how he was created, but for Thor, it just doesn't work.

@Postacrat said:

@sommyt said:

@Fifthchild: infinite and unlimited are diffrent ...infinite means

Limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; IMPOSSIBLE TO MEASURE OR CALCULATE "an infinite number of stars"

unlimited means ...Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent

THORS STRENGTH HAS BEEN SAID ON MANY OCCASIONS THAT HIS STRENGTH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CALCULATE

So has superman's, and he has shown it far more often than Thor. You see my problem with your argument is this, Superman remains consistent while all I see in Thor's defense are the same feats from over 10 years ago. To be honest if Thor was really as powerful as you and some other fan's make him out to be, there would be no threat Thor could not handle, fact is he simply isn't. I don't know why it is so essential that he be placed on or above Superman's league, or why is he constantly compared to a guy who does everything with his bare hands. I mean let's face it without the hammer Thor is nothing and even with it lately he still struggles. I have seen Thor struggle with everybody from Super Skrull to The Sentry, and that's with his hammer.

In fact during the World War Hulk Arc there was so much Hyperbole about the strongest beings to help in the fight against The War Bound, I heard Sentry's name come up, I heard Black Bolts name come up but nobody mentioned Thor. I mean if this guy is so Galaxy level powerful why wasn't anybody focusing on bringing him into the fight? Was it because he was dead? Of course not because the Thor your describing could and should never have been killed. Bottom line as far as I'm concerned as long as Thor keeps getting smacked around by the Hulk, he's not fit to be placed to Superman. I mean in the end this is all just my opinion, but honestly I thought Sentry was stronger than Thor and he's much more closer to Superman.

Thor was killed from Ragnorak. You know the end of all Norse gods, until he would later on return. That's why he wasn't metioned. He was dead, and they were mentioning alive associates. Also what your saying doesn't mean Thor is not as powerful as the others. Xavier, Hercules, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Magneto, and others should have been capable of defeating World War Hulk.

@sommyt: back up when did thor shatter planets with his fist ? You meant with his hammer ?

@sommyt said:

@Fifthchild: infinite and unlimited are diffrent ...infinite means

Limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; IMPOSSIBLE TO MEASURE OR CALCULATE "an infinite number of stars"

unlimited means ...Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent

THORS STRENGTH HAS BEEN SAID ON MANY OCCASIONS THAT HIS STRENGTH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CALCULATE

You've just given two definitions that use different words but effectively say the same thing.

Can you give some of the instances that Thor's strength has said to be impossible to calculate? Because i can't think of any off the top of my head.

@tensor said:

@sommyt: back up when did thor shatter planets with his fist ? You meant with his hammer ?

I've never seen Thor shatter a planet. The closest I would say is this scene from Blood & Thunder but it would be pretty generous to call this a planet -

The recent Aaron run did say that Mjolnir can shatter planets and IIRC BRB has done it in some of his fights so its not beyond the realm of possibility but its not really something I see Thor doing with his fists except maybe on the best day of his life.

@Fifthchild: Like i said with his hammer which is a weapon, saying it with his fist is two different things now.

@Postacrat: What are you talking about? First this conversation started up when you said something along the lines of "if Thor was so great how did he die" (never mind the fact that Superman has been killed) which then brought up the point that, yes he may have died, but he returned. I'm sorry if Thor does not die as easily and as often as some other heroes, but the fact remains, after each one of his deaths, he returned under his own power. What's more, these feats even meet your own criteria of "don't talk about things from 10 years ago" since both incidents occured within the last nine years. There is not grasping at straws here, no reading into what happened or anything else. Its there, plain as day. It can't even be called inconsistent because Thor is two for two at this. Its not even that implausible considering all the Asgardians have been killed and reincarnated multiple times and Thor has demonstrated (again well within the last ten years) the ability to return other Asgardians back to life.

I'm not giving more credit to Thor's revival than Superman's. The Return of Superman happens to be one of my favorite stories, I reread it again just last month. I am, however, giving more credit to Thor FOR his revival than I am to Superman for his because the only part he played in it was he died and left a corpse that Eradicator could play with. Superman himself has no part in it. Hell, Superman didn't even play a part in getting his powers back, again that was Eradicator.

And yes, much of what Thor has done is filled with, as you call it "magical hyperbole" but would be because (DUH!) he is a freaking GOD. Everything about his existance is magic. A lot of his stories are ripped right out of Norse Mythology. It would be very strange if his feats were not somehow interlaced with magic, just like it would be strange if Superman started summoning magic fireballs out of nowhere. If Ragnarok ever becomes a major character you'll probably see a mixture of magic and science with him considering that's how he was created, but for Thor, it just doesn't work.

@Postacrat said:

@sommyt said:

@Fifthchild: infinite and unlimited are diffrent ...infinite means

Limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; IMPOSSIBLE TO MEASURE OR CALCULATE "an infinite number of stars"

unlimited means ...Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent

THORS STRENGTH HAS BEEN SAID ON MANY OCCASIONS THAT HIS STRENGTH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CALCULATE

So has superman's, and he has shown it far more often than Thor. You see my problem with your argument is this, Superman remains consistent while all I see in Thor's defense are the same feats from over 10 years ago. To be honest if Thor was really as powerful as you and some other fan's make him out to be, there would be no threat Thor could not handle, fact is he simply isn't. I don't know why it is so essential that he be placed on or above Superman's league, or why is he constantly compared to a guy who does everything with his bare hands. I mean let's face it without the hammer Thor is nothing and even with it lately he still struggles. I have seen Thor struggle with everybody from Super Skrull to The Sentry, and that's with his hammer.

In fact during the World War Hulk Arc there was so much Hyperbole about the strongest beings to help in the fight against The War Bound, I heard Sentry's name come up, I heard Black Bolts name come up but nobody mentioned Thor. I mean if this guy is so Galaxy level powerful why wasn't anybody focusing on bringing him into the fight? Was it because he was dead? Of course not because the Thor your describing could and should never have been killed. Bottom line as far as I'm concerned as long as Thor keeps getting smacked around by the Hulk, he's not fit to be placed to Superman. I mean in the end this is all just my opinion, but honestly I thought Sentry was stronger than Thor and he's much more closer to Superman.

Thor was killed from Ragnorak. You know the end of all Norse gods, until he would later on return. That's why he wasn't metioned. He was dead, and they were mentioning alive associates. Also what your saying doesn't mean Thor is not as powerful as the others. Xavier, Hercules, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Magneto, and others should have been capable of defeating World War Hulk.