@thunderingthorfan: just because one writer does something that a large majority of the fan base does not like does not mean he has destroyed the character. Stop bitching and trying to start a flame war.

Thanks man, just glad to have a writer that understands the type of hero & warrior that Thor is, that understands his nobility, his courage, his belief Valhallan glory & most of all, his worthiness...a writer that respects Thor & respects his fans! If there is any cosmic justice, Hickman should be writing Thor in the future!

@winter_kills: and the minute Hickman does something remotely different you all turn on him and say he ruined the character. Well maybe not you personally but a large and very vocal majority of the fanbace.

@z3ro180: With all due respect, I think that's an oversimplification.

Hickman has a knack for writing solid dialogue but his stories are FAR too plot-focused for my tastes. Perhaps his style changes when handling a solo title.

@haveatthee: well to each their own if I guess, just look at aaron he does something most fans don't like and all of a sudden he has ruined the character

@z3ro180: Sure, lots of fans have objections, but I think it's because of the degree of "changes" and how quickly they happened, which were considerably drastic. The new Thor relaunch can't be compared (as a change in direction) to, let's say, giving Jane Foster cancer and introducing a new (possible) love interest for Thor.

@haveatthee: Jane Foster and Ros Solomon I would say the are pretty big changes but they weren't givin a big enough push in order for it to make any big of a change. I'll sa this the whole name thing with Thir no longer being called Thor was not given that much though and could have been handled netter, but everything thing else that people are upset about are not really justified in my eyes. I think people are jumping to conclusions and not giving it a chance because I think this new Thor title is a sort of prelude to something bigger.

Yes, not me personally. And, with all due respect, if that happened, they'd be right. The fans have a right to voice their opinions & feelings, as much as you or I do. As you stated, it is a large & very vocal majority of the fanbase, & Marvel needs to recognize that- but they don't. Many fans feel belittled or ignored, they are met with disrespect or told to just get over it by writers & editors that, like Tom Brevoort, openly admit they enjoy the upswing in sales from controversy over content fans. Rightfully, this agitates many, & I have been agitated myself in the past; this is an iconic character that many grew up with. Since fans have no other place to voice their feelings & opinions & vent, they come here, & I understand that completely; they have a right to do this, as much as they have a right to praise a comics run. Myself, when I come here, speaking as a Thor fan, or a Cap fan, or any o the other characters I enjoy, I do it with respect; I give the same respect I would want others to give me; I don't come here trying to force my opinion on anyone else. If someone enjoys this run & direction, I am happy for them & it is their prerogative, just as it is mine to give my opinions & criticisms. I only do so because with Marvel editorial ignoring or belittling, this is the only place that I & many other fans can come to voice our opinions & feelings. And it is an open forum- not just for one point of view. I definitely don't agree with the approach of some of the fans here in their derision, but I understand that it is their way to vent their outrage; sometimes it is taken too far. Conversely, there are those that enjoy this run that mock or belittle those that are bothered by it. There are places where both sides are wrong. Those that have issues with the run & creative decisions should have the right to voice their opinions & feelings, as do those that enjoy the current direction- to each their own. But when there are those on both sides that are trying to influence other's opinions & rant or attack or criticize them because they have opposing views, that is where the problem arises. Both sides should see & respect the point of view of the other.

As for writers, all writers have their flaws, even the best can produce fantastic stories, mediocre stories & less-than-stellar ones- no one can be 100% all the time. As an aspiring writer myself, I know for a fact that is true, & have very "off" days myself. With Aaron, the arc I mainly enjoyed from him was "God Butcher"- that was a great, epic story- the rest of T:GOT to me wasn't spectacular, but that's only my opinion, as I have said. All my threads about Aaron have stated that, I have never touted him as the be-all-to-end-all Thor writers. (That would be Walt Simonson, IMO). There are also great writers, like Kieron Gillen, that I have had issues with, & he is one of my all-time favorite writers. I love Angela:AA, but haven't enjoyed the depiction of Thor therein, the rest of the book, story-wise, is fantastic. I'm definitely not against change, either- some of my favorite comic runs are based on change, for example, Captain America, of which I am also a huge fan- Brubaker's "Death of Captain America" was fantastic, & I enjoyed seeing Bucky Barnes take up the shield & the stars & stripes. It was done with respect to the character of Steve Rogers, very character-driven & made Bucky Barnes into one of my all-time favorite characters- in fact, if Bucky was still carrying the shield today, I wouldn't be opposed, that's how organic Brubaker made it feel. It's all in the execution. IMO, if this Thor arc was done in more of that vein, with the admiration & respect for Thor's character & legacy- as well as his fans- I & other fans would not be as opposed as we are concurrently.

Finally picked up New Avengers 32 at my local comic shop (which, unfortunately, isn't all that local) and definitely in agreement, Hickman has shown Thor the respect so many fans feel he's been lacking as of late.

@z3ro180: Interesting. You said the "Thor giving up his name" detail could've been handled better? How so? I'm actually not being sarcastic I am merely curious.

In my opinion from a conceptual standpoint, someone else carrying the name "Thor" while the actual Thor is still alive just doesn't make sense at all.

Anyway, the topic of this particular thread is about Thor and Hyperion. I still maintain that Hickman seems to find a truer "voice" for Thor with his dialogue. The English is a bit more proper and punctual. Thor's lines have more of a commanding delivery than they do under Aaron (for the most part). Hickman seemingly understands Thor's gregarious nature. I find it strange considering Aaron has been writing Thor since 2012 on a monthly basis. Aaron sort of has Thor speaking with a more modern speech pattern but intersperses certain phrases with the old-school, Shakespearean tongue. It's sort of imbalanced and strange to me.

@haveatthee: I onow it looks Like I'm against Hickman writing a thor comic and I'm not I think he would be really good. Also Hickman writeing a Thor and a hyperion comic would be amazing. As for Thor giving up his name it seems kinda lame lame anf rushed, you can have two character called thor.

Hickman also wrote Ultimate Thor and Ultimates as well correct? He generally seems to have grandiose ideas. I wonder how he would handle Thor since it'd be a solo title and he could focus solely on a titular character (and his supporting cast) rather than balance character development between a roster of 20 heroes.

@lvenger: @asgaard: @winter_kills: @thunderingthorfan: Not sure if this is means much but in Hickman's avengers 30 which goes 50 years into the future or something like that, we see a new StarBrand(a female) so he'll probably stay dead or come back at some point just to die again along with others during secret wars(marvel killing off hundreds of characters before Game of Thrones made it cool) ,an old Hyperion looks like he'll survive post-secret wars, and a woman dressed up like Thor but only with an axe this time(but considering old king thor and him mentioning becoming a space cop I guess he survives)

@makentsu: Thanks... i already read and saw that panels, in my opinion secret wars was designed to possibly change all the current time lines, i really don't think that Thor is dead after new Avengers issue 32, but i think that he will disappear in the end of the Secret Wars along with Steve Rodgers and Tony Stark, Future King Loki in Loki's book also could change once more the Asgard time line... We will have to wait for more developments...

There's nothing that actually says he dies & everything released makes it out to seem he survives. But if he did that was an excellent way for him to go & the brotherhood + chemistry between Thor & Hyperion is amazing & they're an amazing tag team. I've stopped reading because of all recent bs Marvel has been doing but damn I gotta catch up on Hickmans run. He almost never disappoints ].

@makentsu said:

@lvenger: @asgaard: @winter_kills: @thunderingthorfan: Not sure if this is means much but in Hickman's avengers 30 which goes 50 years into the future or something like that, we see a new StarBrand(a female) so he'll probably stay dead or come back at some point just to die again along with others during secret wars(marvel killing off hundreds of characters before Game of Thrones made it cool) ,an old Hyperion looks like he'll survive post-secret wars, and a woman dressed up like Thor but only with an axe this time(but considering old king thor and him mentioning becoming a space cop I guess he survives)

Thanks for posting this!

I hope that maybe this is "She-Thor" carrying Jarnbjorn, or a new weapon forged for her, a sign that at some point Thor will get Mjolnir back(honestly, he should post-SW, considering the awesome scene done by Hickman showing him worthy), & she will carry Jarnbjorn(sort of like Eric Masterson with Thunderstrike), but unfortunately post-SW she's still got the hammer & is part of the so-called "All-New, All-Different" Avengers. Like @asgaard said, it's going to be a wait & see thing, what happens during & post-SW with the landscape of the MU timeline/reality, it's pretty much anybody's guess.

@winter_kills: Actually taking a close look at that second scan it does look like she could be in possession of Jarnbjorn. Of course if that's supposed to be 50 years in the future would it necessarily be the current replacement Thor, I mean if she's mortal I'd think it might be someone else entirely.

That's true, you've got a point. Unless somehow her life was extended like with the Golden Apples or something...with Aaron you never know. Guess I'm just looking for a sign of the real Thor's future/return in all these future scenes.

As usual i agree, and if we add that only in Aaron's writing weapons like Mjolnir (that now is also a character) made only the present worthy character have nordic look, (that's not Jane or Roz look without the character Mjolnir), as far as i know Jarnbjorn is not a character yet... right? Or is just a matter of time if Aaron keeps writing Asgadian stuff!?

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, now that Mjolnir is apparently sentient & a "character". IMO, this is how Aaron approaches writing:

@winter_kills: I don't even want to think of it either... mjolnir as a character... bleh...

@antithetical:

It's crazy. The idea that Mjolnir can "talk" to the user & basically serve as an instruction manual- "how to swing!" "how to throw!" "how to summon the elements!" Aaron makes it seem like anyone who's deemed worthy can pick up the hammer & the hammer will "tell" them how to use it, automaticall, or as Biz Markee puts it, "automagically!!"...

Aaron is downplaying the skill it takes to use the hammer- for combat & it's magical qualities. Like when Eric Masterson started using Mjolnir, I remember him trying to fly & crashed into a chimney- he had to learn to do the skills that Thor made it look easy to do- skills that Thor perfected as a warrior over his long lifespan...pure skill, another of Thor's great qualities Aaron wants to diminish. Eric Masterson's transition, even written by Defalco, was more realistic, believable & organic than this entire arc.

@winter_kills: Yep, because to have an unknown pick up the hammer and wield it effectively and skillfully from the start would usually indicate someone with a degree of experience and in this case that would leave you with a fairly short list of suspects. So instead let's have mjolnir be sentient and not only give this person the power of Thor, but all his knowledge and skill. How freakin' convenient is that?

@antithetical:

Exactly!

It's the kind of convenient writing that makes me want to go into a

@winter_kills said:

@antithetical:

Exactly!

It's the kind of convenient writing that makes me want to go into a

After a long night at work I could really go for a "Convenient Odinsleep" myself... right after a couple rounds of ale! lol!

@antithetical:

Right on!!

@winter_kills: \m/

What I don't get about this issue is that issue 30 pretty much established that

1 fully-grown Beyonder > Entire Celestial host of a universe >> Builders

Yet in issue 32, we see 2 fully-grown Beyonders being destroyed alongside Starbrand, Ex-Nihilo and Abyss, and also it seems like Thor and Hyperion managed to take a few more with them.

Now, I like Thor just as much as the next guy, but what's up with the inconsistency? Makes the Beyonders seem like much less of a threat and it also lowballs the Celestials, LT and the abstracts.

On a side note, does anyone think Scathan will be brought into this?

@thetrolldance: Don't worry because Thor also is sacrificed/downgraded to fit in a lot of plots/stories, specially in Midgard...

What ever happened with the cool Beyonder did he ever come back?

It still annoys me how lady Thor is just Thor now when he was Thor before he had the hammer you can't just lose your birth name. Also by aaron's logc picking up the hammer transforms someone into Thor, but the enchantment says you just get Thor's power. When Cap picked up the hammer he was still Cap he didn't turn into Thor neither did Beta Ray Bill. Aaron has screwed over all Thor fans. How Thor was portrayed in New Avengers 32 was how Thor should be written, made me happy to see him worthy again just disappointed he had to die.

@asgaard: yea that was a lie.

@thorthunder98: Classic Thor will likely be back after Secret Wars is over and done, although his being worthy again at the end of New Avengers may have been nothing more than a tease.

Transformation is one of the powers of the hammer. Eric Masterson and Jane Foster and Red Norvel see the hammer as part of 'Thor'.

Captain America just saw the hammer as another weapon on the battlefield.

When Eric's son obtained the Thunderstrike mace, he first turned into a copy of his father's alter ego, and even commented about it. Once he realized he could transform into other forms, he tried a few things out before settling on the form we saw in MC2.

Beta Ray, in his first appearance, thought the way Cap did. As his view changed, so did his outfit. Now he DOES change, but just his outfit.

@tyger: Fair enough although Beta Ray Bill kept his name though, but Thor giving up his birth name still makes no sense to me whatsoever. Just hoping he is back after Secret Wars tbh.

@antithetical: Can only hope he's back and hope he has a new writer. And even still it was an amazing way to go out for him that was the real Thor.

Most definitely. I didn't follow Avengers/New Avengers but I made a point to buy that issue to show my approval and support with how Hickman portrayed Thor.

@antithetical: Same here I heard about the scene and wanted to see it in full and was very glad I did the interaction of Thor and Hyperion was brilliant actually had me emotional about the characters brilliant writing.

Actually Jane never was connected/merged with original Thor's soul/essence or had Thor trapped in her head like Eric, Norvell and Olson, so it's a new situation, that Aaron is trying to justify with character Mjolnir, yes this is new, Mjolnir never was a character never guide and gave feed back and Asgardian knowledge to Eric and company, didn't Eric crash before learn how to fly properly with the hammer? Anyway Eric and company were very bad writing and garbage in the canon and Aaron shouldn't run this path again because didn't work before and character Mjolnir will only aggravate for worse executions that didn't work in the past, Beta Ray Bill work because he was not Thor...

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he/she be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." The inscription is clear but some writers just forget the purpose and write what is more convenient to their new creative decisions, how you describe worthy invert Loki in Axis? Half transformation between Cap and Thordis? There is no "Captain America just saw the hammer as another weapon on the battlefield", Fear Itself plot was coherent and didn't need a female pr stunt version of Thor just a character with the power of Thor, you can say whatever you want but Aaron execution of female Thor is terrible because it's a pr stunt that doesn't fit Thor, because the son of Odin born as Thor with the God of Thunder powers, the hammer is just a weapon that can give you his power when you are worthy, if Thor can't be Thor without Mjolnir the inscription doesn't make any sense because originally someone had to be Thor, by your post the inscription should be changed for....

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he/she be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor, but when the story needs there also the possibility to become Thor"

Ridiculous right? Just like Aaron current execution...And if we didn't know we never could guess that Aaron was the same person that wrote Gorr Arcs...

@asgaard: I agree Thor isn't whoever is holding the hammer Thor is Thor Odinson the character everyone loved you can't replace a character people loved reading about take away his birth name and expect people to continue reading a comic about someone else as the mane character, with the Thor everyone is a fan of demoted to being a side character in his own comic it frustrates me. The name Thor isn't a title like Captain America, it is a name of a character you can't just swap a character out with someone totally different just because they use their weapon. The only way I see this working if they somehow refer back to when Doctor Strange repaired mjolnir and said something along the lines of Thor and the hammer being connected. But it would still be ridiculous giving sentience to a hammer. And I agree I loved the God Bomb arc one of my favourite arcs. Then aaron went and ruined it. Wish Hickman takes over and brings back the real Thor.

@thorthunder98 said:

So why Mjolnir didn't work like a character with Steve in Fear Itself and inverted Loki in Axis? That events were after the fight with Bor, next Aaron will try justify that with Jane's current disease, but that are to much variables that make Aaron's writing to much convenient to the new creative decisions... In any possible scenario character Mjolnir is just ridiculous like you well said...

I like Hickman's writing even in God is Dead, but Kieron Gillen prove in Journey into Mystery and Angela Asgard's Assassin that he deserves write Thor again, and this time he should write a run from the beginning with his own ideas, not start in the middle of the story like when he replaced JMS...

@asgaard: Well since the lady Thor arc it's been all sorts of ridiculous like Odin not being able to lift the hammer under his own enchantment. And after mentioning using the hammer is killing her even quicker I don't understand how he plans to keep this lady thor going he would just be going against what he has already said. I wouldn't have minded someone else using mjolnir if it was in their own comic and the real Thor just stayed having his story told using Jarnbjorn. I liked the Thor comics because of the character of Thor not because of Mjolnir which is what aaron thinks Thor fans are about, Thor is more than the hammer he is the god of thunder with or without it. Hope secret wars ends with him back for good. And people complaining about Thor fans getting angry about aaron's treatment of Thor they are only angry because he made the main character a supporting character in his own comic which is a giant F you to fans of Thor. Guess we just have to ride this one out, hopefully secret wars will have him appear with the Thor Cops or something.

@thorthunder98:

I agree with you i would love to see Sif wielding Mjolnir but still being Sif(herself), but unfortunately Thordis story will continue after Secret Wars she's in new Avengers line up, and Aaron said he will continue her story after Secret Wars in this interview to IGN Comics, in this same interview Aaron also showed that he doesn't have notion from what is valid criticism and what isn't, his insistent generalization proved how ignorant he is, his words also confirm the Pr stunt purpose and how his current and future writing is hostage from the view announcement, finally this interview also prove that Aaron never had and doesn't have any real plans for the Original Thor in the future... (now that he is worthy again after New Avengers issue 32), since issue 5 that i don't read Aaron's writing on Thor, and i will not read anything that he can write in the future, if every Thor fan that dislike Aaron's current writing ignore this story, probably would end faster, but i only see the end of this run when Thor Ragnarok hit cinemas in the end of 2017...

I will be very disappointed if Thor isn't worthy at the end of SW. He definitely didn't die against the beyonders IMO, and he was worthy going into that battle. It would be dumb if he was suddenly unworthy again after the battle. It should not be such an on and off thing like that. Its not like the flick of a switch. He didn't do anything to become unworthy in the first place and I don't get how him fighting the beyonders made him worthy, when he was always willing to die to protect earth. I don't expect anything from Jason Aaron though, I expect he will continue his disrespect for Thor after SW ends. They need to get a new writer for Thor as soon as possible. Jason Aaron is out of good ideas.

Thor is still worthy when fighting the Beyonders.

@realitywarper: Yeah but I'm sure Jason Aaron will have him unworthy again when SW is over and he gets back to writing the female Thor series.

@jayc1324: @realitywarper:

I also expect that he will continue his disrespect for Thor after SW ends...I bet Thor is worthy of any kind of enchanted hammer expect his own Mjolnir, that will be incredibly stupid and very very convenient to continue Thordis story, because worthy is the opposite of unworthy but it's character Mjolnir now, you know more and more of Aaron's P.I.S. writing, but i still think some readers will buy it...

Aaron's interview to IGN...

@asgaard: I really hate what he made Thor become and was happy seeing a glint of the old Thor in New Avengers that made me happy and it shows as aaron wasn't writing it. I wouldn't be bothered if she carries on being a character if she didn't have his name this whole thing is trying to make people uncomfortable calling the real Thor by his name in that people are like he's not Thor anymore, well he is I don't get where the idea of the name comes with the hammer came from Thor is his identity and it doesn't rest with the hammer it frustrates me. I Even if he was having his own comic after this with jarnbjorn I'd be happy, much happier than buying a Thor comic and getting about one page of the actual Thor in it it's ridiculous. It's like if whoever held Cap's shield starting calling themselves Steve Rogers aswell I don't see the difference a name is a name it's not transferrable if you're carrying the persons weapon. If they're so insistent on showing equality create a new character that's female or use a pre-existing character, they showed it could be done with Angela:Asgard's Assassin I didn't read all of them but from what I did it seemed a pretty good female character. I don't see equality as forcing female characters on people replacing male characters from their own comic.

If Thor's name wasn't Thor and the inscription read that they shall possess the power of like I don't know 'Steve' nobody would be calling the woman Steve it's just plain stupid.

@thorthunder98:

I agree, i call worthy Jane Thordis just like she call herself in that what if story, and the son of Odin and Gaea Thor because it's his born name, this is not a Thor story just pandering to feminism, you can see that in Odin's and Freyja behavior in Aaron's writing both were written out of the character, Odin the antagonist just because is male and Freyja always assertive because she is female, in Angela both are multifaceted characters, in some plot points Odin was written like a sentimental old fool even after all Angela actions, and Freyja also showed how vengeful she can be, Gillen wasn't pandering to anyone just writing a good story with Asgardian elements, that's why Angela first arc in Asgard was awesome, and Angela personality/identity is so different from Thor, Loki, Balder and Tyr that she will add interesting new dynamics to Asgard's royal family...