I have realized that Thor has kind of gotten screwed over during the last decade. His "death" after Ragnarok meant that we had to go three years without any appearances from him. And when he does come back, its in an awesome series by JMS that ultimately ended up unfinished because JMS did not want to use Thor in Seige, a huge event that marvel was trying to do at the time. So after some decent stories with Gillen and Matt Fraction, we get amazing stories from Jason Aaron like the god butcher. But soon after, Thor is getting destroyed again. He loses his hammer, loses his arm, becomes unworthy, has someone else going around as the new "Thor", and then dies. The worst part about all of this is that we have no idea why all of this has happened. Jason Aaron has given us no resolution to this story, and we are being left in the dark. We won't get any answers until the end of secret wars, and even then we still don't know how long we have to wait. They have done damage to Thor and his character without giving any explanation, and it all feels like it was done for no reason. Its like they just don't care anymore.

When I look at Thor from a year ago and Thor right now, its disappointing.

Just as something good happens with Thor (His power level during Ragnarok, JMS series, God Butcher arc), marvel does something to screw it up.

@jayc1324: I can empathize with you. I loved JMS' run and Aaron's Gorr story as well but immediately dropped it after he switched to girl Thor. I wonder, though, if it's a Thor problem or a comic problem. Similar mangking has happened to Superman over the past few years (even down to the JMS not finishing a story thing) and is continuing on for a year. Back issues FTW?

@sog7dc: Sounds like a comic problem. Too many big events and big changes to attract new readers or for shock value IMO.

Don't get me started on the thor corps, now anyone who picks up an hammer is Thor, blegh

Free enchanted uru hammers for everyone! Great way to completely cheapen the concept, bleh indeed.

I agree 100 percent. Thor is one of my favorites from marvel and they like to screw him over I guess

Damn, are they trying to help DC sell

As a Hulk fan, I hate when they cheapen the concept. There shouldn't be a whole area of Hulks, as Hulk himself is an anomoly. Anyone else SHOULD die from the exposure to that much gamma, IMO.

At least Thor has had some epic issues somewhat recently. Compare that to the recent Hulk offerings which have been awful (excluding the new Maestro run, hopefully)

Just another reason I'm not reading Marvel anymore

Michael Avon Oeming rounded out the second volume of Thor with Ragnarok, if we are going to mention Fraction, we should def bring up Oeming, his very short run was awesome. Also that death at the end of that series? Then being put into comic limbo? One of the best things that ever happened to Thor, as it gave JMS the perfect scenario for a relaunch that wouldn't have had the same impact. Also I am not sure I agree with Fractions run being decent… the way he treated Balder? Forgetting or looking over Loki's schemes and actions with Sif's body to just bring him back? Swapping Thor with Ullik and that leading nowhere? Donald Blake getting decapitated and then having to watch Enchantress screw a Golem she made? As a still alive sentient decapitated head? Granted I think a fair bit of it was editorially mandated (bring back Loki, kill off Donald Blake etc)

I agree with the sentiment of thread though, things could be better but I don't think Thor has it the worst either. I am a Thor fan… but I am also a Scarlet Witch fan, and a Hercules fan, Ares, Rogue, Wonder Woman, Superman, Wonder Man, Tigra, Hank Pym, Daken... Plus I remember a time where Thor was kind of a B List character, you know, back when Iron Man was too. X-Men was Marvels premiere franchise, Spidey, Hulk and Wolverine were always the promo type characters, sold the best… since JMS and after, Thor has actually been quite a consistent top seller, with only a few individual characters routinely outselling him. Haven't checked sales in a few weeks, but whenever Thor book sells more than Hulk, Superman, Wolverine, it sends a sign to Marvel, hey, this character is popular, don't underestimate him or overlook why people enjoy him. Oh and he is front and center (along with Cap and Robert Downey Jr Man) in new promos, posters, Marvel group shots. Also he usually gets one badass moment in each big event.

Yeah, a cosmic police force made up of "Mjolnir wielders" is a horrible concept. This is a lesson how NOT to treat an A-list brand, by bloating it to hell. See: multiple Hulks, Spider-Men etc. What makes these characters unique is not their equipment, but their origins and motivations. Fans love the story of Bruce Banner and Peter Parker and Steve Rogers. It's those characters who make their alter-egos.

@sc: Oemings Ragnarok was awesome but the point of me mentioning it was that we had to go three years without Thor.

@teh_pwnerer: Well he did depower pretty much all Hulks. Just because Duggan felt like it and it didn't even make sense from a story point. Hulk has been getting the shafts for a few years himself

It's certainly been a topsy turvey period to be a Thor reader. One minute the fanbase is enjoying quality writers and artists collaberating on Thor such as JMS and Olivier Coipel. The next, there's Thor losing the very characteristic that makes him the hero he is, his worthiness and honour represented by his ability to wield Mjolnir.

I also wouldn't call Fraction's run decently written either. Gillen definitely was a decent, if not good writer to follow on from JMS' plot threads and did the best he could with the Siege tie ins. Fraction's time writing Thor was simply a mess with poor characterisation and flashy stories lacking substance or direction. His best idea was bringing back Loki as a kid for Gillen's amazing Journey into Mystery run.

I agree with you, for me the only good thing about Fraction's writing on Thor was get rid of Blake with that Mares (also weak) story line, but like was said above that was probably editorially mandated just to make the comic version more accurate with the live action version, Gillen did another amazing "Journey into Mystery" with Angela first Arc in Asgard, and he only wrote Thor from issues #604 to #614, he definitely deserves to write Thor again in the future, and currently Thor really needs a writer like Gillen to make his stories about Gods again...

@jayc1324: Oh I understand, that was a part of my point as well (which isn't to disagree with you to be clear, but raise an additional point about positives and negatives). Jurgens run had done well, but there was talk of Thor not fulfilling his potential. From what I remember, the idea was to give him a pause, make everyone miss him, and them reintroduce him in a big way. Which ended up working. Such things are a double edged sword.

JMS requested that Thor be kept out of Marvel, other books as well for a certain amount of time too, which was somewhat granted, I can't remember but it was more than a year I think? JMS only wanted Thor appearing in his book, for creative reasons, so is that a good Thor or bad thing? I guess it depends on who you are and your perspective. Those that like JMS Thor might be okay with that sacrifice, others who prefer seeing Thor in big events and other books might actually prefer him interacting with the rest of the MU. So when they took Thor off the shelf for a few years, the plan was to bring him back stronger, bigger, better and more important than ever, and I think they succeeded? In that sense Thor is lucky, and Thor fans too, without that successful relaunch as well, Thor wouldn't have been modernized. J. Michael Straczynski television and movie background also helped tremendously as far as making Thor more marketable in live action. Imagine if Thor didn't get relaunched under his pen? Disney might have found Thor too archaic, convoluted and cheesy to market in live action and gone with someone gritty and modern like Sentry or just straight up use Ult Thor (instead of a merge of ideas)

I mean ideally I would also prefer positive after positive after positive, but sometimes certain negative things have to happen for positives (annoying number changes to series to draw in and boost readership/profits is one tricky area, as is delays versus fan demand, JMS run often, often was heavily delayed, which was annoying for many back then, but others didn't mind as much per the quality)

Eh I was certainly not a fan of Blake getting turned into some extra dimensional god in Fraction's run just to make Thor more like his MCU counterpart. But agreed on Gillen's consistently quality writing, everything he's done that's been Thor or Thor related has been well written, positively reviewed and has most of the fans enjoying it. It's a shame he's leaving Marvel after Secret Wars, Angela might not be in as safe hands as she was before the Battleworld event. Gillen really didn't lose sight of the gods or the divine side of Thor stories, but he still brought a human connection to his stories too. Writers need to mix both these styles into Thor stories, not just write Odin as if he's a massive douche and She-Thor speaking almost casually with or without the hammer.

@lvenger:

Confirmed that Gillen is leaving Marvel after Secret Wars? Any justification? That would be incredibly bad for Angela stories as Asgardian...

Only after 6 issues her book is over and when she wasn't really well establish as Asgardian, she will be just some kind of trivial Witch Hunter in Secret Wars, so like the marvel all new all different announcements suggest who knows which version of Angela will emerge after Secret Wars? This current marvel editorial idea that they just have to pander for new readers because the old fans/readers will read anything where their favorite characters/worlds are portrayed, even if they are written completely out of the character and purpose of the comic just to fit the new direction doesn't apply to me.

This is the perfect timing for me to quit on marvel comics...

@asgaard: good riddance to bad garbage. She was only a means to an end for Gaimen to sign up with Marvel.

Acknowledging the fact that i like Thor, Sif, Odin, Loki and Amora a lot more than Angela I strongly disagree with you...

I think creative decisions like Angela the Angel that born Asgardian reinforce Asgard's purpose in marvel comics (Gods/Demons/Angels/Supernatural/Unknown) and transport you into a Journey to the Mystery where Thor comics born, for me Thor and the Asgardians are baldly hurt when they are written in the human perceptive because they are Gods, humanize this characters takes away all the specialty/specificity of their stories, Thor and Asgard is about things that we (humans) aren't supposed to understand, humans can't be Gods and Gods can't be humans, that has to be the first rule when you write about Gods, the writer have to differentiate the human from the Gods/Angels perspective, and that was what Gillen execution did in Angela Asgard's Assassin, unlike Aaron's current crappy/pandering/stunt writing, Gillen story was really about Gods/Angels/Asgard/Heven, for me Angela first Arc in Asgard was only below Aaron Gorr Arcs in Asgard's recent writing, superior to Gillen JIM, very superior to Loki AA, and incredibly superior to Aaron's current writing, but obviously if Gillen is leaving marvel that all can change in Angela next Arc because Marguerite Bennett only wrote Angela as Angel flashbacks and isn't prepared yet to write about Asgard, that if Angela is still Asgardin after Secret Wars...

@asgaard: Here's the link where I saw it, Gillen won't be writing for Marvel post Secret Wars. Apparently he's got enough comics on his plate at other companies.

I jumped ship from Marvel a while ago, every gimmick, false promotion tactic and shock value storytelling was more than enough for me to bow out of buying anymore current Marvel comics for the forseeable future. Whether you want to stop buying is your call but you sound pretty annoyed by this too.

@lvenger:

Thanks for the link, i quit on Araron's book after issue 5, shouldn't read any issue but i thought that Aaron deserve the benefit of the doubt for Gorr, but his writing was worse or on the same level that Cullen Bunn 2013 Fearless Defenders, and he insult Thor fan base in his writing, according to Loki last issue Al Ewing thinks Gods should use human puny weapons to defend Asgard, immediate quit, and yesterday after this all new/different crap announcements like you well said "shock value storytelling" (without knowing that Gillen was leaving Marvel) i decided not to read W H Angela, i even post that decision in Angela Asgard's Assassin discussion thread, and now after knowing that Gillen will be leaving Marvel after Secret Wars, i m very proud of that decision...Like you also well said no more marvel reading in the foreseeable future...

Note (since you mentioned in other Thor topic), Walt Simonson (probably Thor best writer in the Marvel adaptation), book called Ragnarok (idw), didn't start in full power but the last issue (#5) was pretty special to who likes to read about Gods (Mimir's well of wisdom/knowledge Thor/ Odin) obviously that Walt doesn't need to drink from Mimir's well his knowledge/storytelling of Asgard and Norse Mythology is incredible, but he could drink some energy drinks and write this comic every month...

@asgaard: I still can't believe Ewing's promising run has Odin and Freya wielding machine guns to combat a new Ragnorak, how ridiculous is that? Where are the legendary Asgardian weapons, its siege arsenal and its armies? That would have made for a much more grandiose scale in confronting Those Who Sit Above in Shadow again. But nope it's gotta be machine guns cause that's what the new readers would find cool. Ewing has some good ideas but he does himself no favours with scenes like this.

I really need to check out more issues but unfortunately, the main problem with Simonson's Ragnorak is that it takes months for each issue to come out. Simonson does do a good job on the storytelling and mythology, as well as visual presentation but it's not a monthly series you can follow consequently. The release schedule is sporadic.

@lvenger: Yeah, having Odin and Freya brandshing heavy military artillery may look "badass" but it is rather dumb considering they're gods with powers and abilities far beyond the capabilities of mortal weaponry. Maybe this is a Marvel editorial decision to diminish the relevance of Asgard, to be able to say "see, they're not really 'gods' just aliens like in the movies".

Didn't Skurge use Machine guns in his final battle.

@tigerkaya: Yeah, and I'd commented on that elsewhere on the vine a couple weeks ago, so it's not an original idea and seems to be referencing that arc from Simonson's run (Thor vol 1 360-362). Not certain if that's intentional and possibly foreshadowing the Asgardians' demise in a similar manner...

@antithetical: @tigerkaya: @lvenger:

Al Ewing already try this "joke" in Loki Agent of Asgard issue #3 with FK Loki, at the time everything else in his writing was good so i ignore it, but the events of the last issue like Lvenger said are a lot more symbolic, if we acknowledge the context of the current plot and the fact that Odin always was and is the core of Asgard's Old Godly Principles. Currently Loki's book is confused (about Loki) and lost quality in the last 3 issues, and i thought that after Fear Itself plot was clear that Asgardian weaponry is incredibly superior to Human... Definitely agree that this kind of plots only diminish the relevance of Asgard and don't fit Asgard's storytelling and aren't the kind of stories that i like to read about. Unlike some users that without anything else, desperately try to justify Aaron current creative decisions on Thor with crappy stories like Norvell or Eric (still very different scenarios from Thordis, because unlike the past worthy characters she just lift the hammer and become "Asgardian Thorish" without Odin's intervention, how convenient was that?) i don't think that past bad writing can be justification for current writing that doesn't work anymore...

@antithetical: It does seem like a rip off of Simonson having Skurge brandish machine guns but at least Skurge is not an all powerful Skyfather like Odin and was outnumbered so at least has an excuse. Odin and Freyja are supposed to be the All Father and Mother, why do they need machine guns with all their power?

@asgaard Eff me, Loki can transmute practically anything he wants and conjure up spells which surpass even those of Stephen Strange, Earth's Sorcerer Supreme and Ewing has him pull out a rocket launcher? Ugh and I thought King Loki was a good homage to classic Loki initially.

And i thought that fractions run on thor was finally saved by aaron in the GOT issues. But then we got these events that stripped thor his very essence. As well as the asgardians. Odin who creates galaxies while he walks, cannot even lift mjolnir and is now relying on machine guns? This thor police force with that sucky concept. And we are left with jane foster! What happened to the one and TRUE THOR? Hyperion is shown on the new lineup but where the hell is thor? Am i missing something because im really on the verge on quitting marvel.

Also didnt like the change on captain america. Now we will be having a big change on hulk and wolvie.

@lvenger:

I agree, supposedly Future King Loki was a good homage to classic Loki initially, but currently the worse part isn't the incorrect interpretation of Future King Loki powers, but the incapacity of the writing/story to demonstrate that Future King Loki is the chaotic Antagonist/Villain that we like to read about, because his motivations are almost pure villainy...

I think Angela first Arc in Asgard was solid only with Angela story, but Gillen's resurrection of the everything burns plot, and other no so central sub plots like the Disir made me feel rewarded for reading almost all marvel Asgard stories, and the interesting part was that Gillen's "new plot" with Surtur destructive power and Freyja and Odin new child really had purpose and real consequences for Asgard (also Heven) unlike the original plot, and the fact that Aaron always ignore Freyja pregnancy as outcome from the everything burns story line and Gillen had enough creativity to acknowledge this plot and give this child purpose says everything about the capacity from the mentioned writers to be creative but still respect continuity...

Unfortunately most of current marvel comics are not story and continuity rooted anymore, the tenth realm story Arc also was Al Ewing's creation, where Odin banished from Yggdrasil an entire realm and now he needs machine guns?

@antithetical ur humor got me rollin bro

Just reading through this thread I see stuff like Odin using guns? What the hell is marvel doing with the asgardians? Odin would never touch a weapon made by mortals as weak as a gun. I thought Jason Aarons Thors book was bad but it looks like every writer is treating Thor and his supporting characters bad now. I haven't read anything from marvel since Thor #8 and I probably won't until Thor gets his hammer back. Its crazy to think that just 10 months ago we were reading about Old King Thor fighting Galactus, and now we get this garbage.

I know. Its such a travesty

It's Loki Agent of Asgard #14, last page, showing Odin and Freya coming off like some kind of backwoods militia gun nuts... YEEHAWWW...!!!! they must be thinking at Marvel HQ, That'll give us a much needed sales boost in Alabama and Mississippi... :-S

And yeah, 10 months is a relatively short time to have gone to sh*t... like being at a party having the time of your life, knocking back a "few" drinks and then the next thing you know you're on the bathroom floor with your face square in the toilet wondering where everything went so wrong.

Odin and Frigga with machine guns? lolwut

Talk about jumping the shark.

@haveatthee: yep, it is about as bad as you think...

@antithetical said:

@haveatthee: yep, it is about as bad as you think...

yeah that is pretty lame. When A god resorts to a lame ass weapon like that. You can drop no lower on the chain.

Marvel has truly become a joke these days

@sog7dc: dude if you have not read the new Thor comic don't it's not that good. I stuck with it and even defined it on this very form because I try to hold off judging a book until the first arc is over. Since the revel of Fem-Thor being Jane Foster it's just not worth the time or money to read it. Here's hopeing that the Secret Wars tie in Thors is actually good and not boring and mediocre.

@z3ro180:

In my opinion, the worst part is that I would love to have read an Aaron story about. Thor losing Mjolnir. The image of Thor on his forum page is intriguing enough for me to spend money on.

We've had 6 years of massively out of character saturday morning cartoon Daredevil, you gets get off easy.

If Thor isn't still alive after the Beyonders battle or he isn't revived by the time Jason Aarons "The Mighty Thor" series comes in October, featuring Jane Foster as Thor, that would mean that Thor has actually been killed off for a female version of Thor to take his place. Not only did they remove his hammer from him with no explanation, but they actually killed him it seems. Just for female Thor. Meaning that we aren't getting an explanation for what Nick Fury said to him, and we again have to go for some time without being able to read about Thor. They just killed him in 2004 until 2007. I hope this isn't true.

Maybe they don't want him to do better than Iron Man/Spider-Man.

Its like DC with Shazzam and Superman. They make Shazzam into a dope when he use to be a badass.

What's funny about Jane being worthy is that Odin actually gave her a test during the silver age to see if she was worthy to become just a regular Asgardian god to be worthy of marrying Thor and she failed that test. Now here we are all these years later and she is worthy of taking up the hammer and being the new Thor(dis). I hate it when past history isn't respected for characters who have great histories. Jane should not be worthy imo. Either choose someone else or just let Thor have his hammer.

@spambot: you bring up a very good point concerning the issue of Jane's worthiness, though it will probably be explained away as it was Mjolnir that decided she was worthy and Odin's judgment of her means squat because he can't even lift the hammer himself. next they'll be telling us Odin had nothing to do with creating Mjolnir, that it's a relic from an even older race or he stole it from the 10th Realm and it was always meant for a woman to wield.

@antithetical: Would not surprise me at all. Just as it made no sense that Gaea would leave earth to be one of the all mothers. No sense whatsoever. She is the embodiment/protector of earth. She isn't going to leave earth to become 1/3 the ruler of Asgard. She doesn't even have a connection to Asgard which is why she kept her identity from Thor for so long.

Thor is my favourite superhero. All i want is Normal, male Thor back. And a great storyline. This secret wars/battleworld thors crap is horrible. Maybe even give him the odin force/rune magic back... i would love to see more stories/feats with RKT.

This but I doubt they'll have him be powerful like that again. When characters get to that level its hard to write a good story for them.

Gallery

Does Aaron have a multiple personality disorder or something ?! First, Thor is no longer Thor because he lost his hammer. But now there is more to bring Thor than having a hammer. Regardless, it's nice to see him done justice for once since Hickman's New Avengers ended.

@spiderman1997 said:

Gallery

Does Aaron have a multiple personality disorder or something ?! First, Thor is no longer Thor because he lost his hammer. But now there is more to bring Thor than having a hammer. Regardless, it's nice to see him done justice for once since Hickman's New Avengers ended.

What issue is this? And so Thor is no longer dead?