THE TOP 5 GREATEST BATTLES OF THE MIGHTY THOR!!!

#1 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (210 posts) - - Show Bio

The Mighty Thor, the legendary Norse God of Thunder has been a true super-heavyweight of the comics world since he was first introduced back in 1962. With an unparalleled reputation, Thor has been involved in many legendary battles that helped define the Marvel Universe into what it is today. For the first time ever, presented to you are Thor's 5 absolute greatest slugfests that rocked the medium to its very core! And see for yourself why no other superhero during the Silver Age had more glory and grandeur...

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-top-5-greatest-battles-of-thor.html

#2 Edited by Pyrogram (36494 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree with a few of these..no beta ray bill for example.

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#3 Posted by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

Some yes some no

#4 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4527 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: @Mego_Stretch_Hulk: @Z3RO180: When he fought Glory the embodiment of an entire God Pantheon, The Serpent , The Hulk/Nul and Thing/Angrir,God Butcher, and The Sentry

#5 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (210 posts) - - Show Bio

So many good Thor battles!

#6 Posted by New_World_Order (13035 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

So many good Thor battles!

#7 Posted by Z3RO180 (6458 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 yes I agree there are many a great thor battle

#8 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (210 posts) - - Show Bio

For me, I think that is what really separates him from Superman. Supes, never had as many, never.

#9 Posted by THORSON (2359 posts) - - Show Bio

perfection

#10 Edited by Thundergoose84 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I don't agree with all of your picks but I enjoyed what you had to say about of the selected battles. I wanted to ask, I'm a big fan of your blog and the other heroes you've written on, but I was curious about your process for selecting these battles. I couldn't help but notice that except for a select few, none of the chosen fights have occurred in the last ten or so years. Is that your comment on how stories are being written these days or was that not a factor for you during selection? Just wondering, again I very much enjoy reading your write ups.

#11 Edited by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Thundergoose84 said:

Well I don't agree with all of your picks but I enjoyed what you had to say about of the selected battles. I wanted to ask, I'm a big fan of your blog and the other heroes you've written on, but I was curious about your process for selecting these battles. I couldn't help but notice that except for a select few, none of the chosen fights have occurred in the last ten or so years. Is that your comment on how stories are being written these days or was that not a factor for you during selection? Just wondering, again I very much enjoy reading your write ups.

Thanks.

While Thor has a MASSIVE amount of memorable and defining fights, I tried to narrow it down to the MOST defining and influential.

The one fight I get the most controversy on is Defenders #10 and why I didn't add either the Beta Ray Bill fight or the Surtur Saga final. What most people don't understand about that Thor, Hulk fight is that it was a truly defining moment in Thor's history. Sure, the Surtur Saga was huge and the Beta Ray Bill brawl are both top 10, but those fights didn't define Thor the way Defenders #10 did. Think of what fanboys mostly talk about in their many "Hulk vs Thor" debates? Defenders #10 is ALWAYS in the conversation and it's continuously brought up much more for historical importance when discussing Thor's legend (Beta Ray Bill is a throwaway character today, although he's much better than the lame-ass Thunderstrike). Their 90 minute test of strength was arguably Thor's greatest feat of strength ever (although Thor #385 put an end to it) and nothing in the annals of the Marvel Mythos beats "Hulk vs Thor" as a whole, the Avengers movie even cemented it's glory. So when it comes down to importance, the Surtur and BR Bill brawls aren't even in the same ballpark...

#12 Posted by cmartin (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

@Thundergoose84 said:

Well I don't agree with all of your picks but I enjoyed what you had to say about of the selected battles. I wanted to ask, I'm a big fan of your blog and the other heroes you've written on, but I was curious about your process for selecting these battles. I couldn't help but notice that except for a select few, none of the chosen fights have occurred in the last ten or so years. Is that your comment on how stories are being written these days or was that not a factor for you during selection? Just wondering, again I very much enjoy reading your write ups.

Thanks.

While Thor has a MASSIVE amount of memorable and defining fights, I tried to narrow it down to the MOST defining and influential.

The one fight I get the most controversy on is Defenders #10 and why I didn't add either the Beta Ray Bill fight or the Surtur Saga final. What most people don't understand about that Thor, Hulk fight is that it was a truly defining moment in Thor's history. Sure, the Surtur Saga was huge and the Beta Ray Bill brawl are both top 10, but those fights didn't define Thor the way Defenders #10 did. Think of what fanboys mostly talk about in their many "Hulk vs Thor" debates? Defenders #10 is ALWAYS in the conversation and it's continuously brought up much more for historical importance when discussing Thor's legend (Beta Ray Bill is a throwaway character today, although he's much better than the lame-ass Thunderstrike). Their 90 minute test of strength was arguably Thor's greatest feat of strength ever (although Thor #385 put an end to it) and nothing in the annals of the Marvel Mythos beats "Hulk vs Thor" as a whole, the Avengers movie even cemented it's glory. So when it comes down to importance, the Surtur and BR Bill brawls aren't even in the same ballpark...

Is it also one of hulks greatest feats of strength too?

If your answer is no please elaborate.

#13 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (210 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course. But more so for Thor because the Hulk is known as the strongest character for Marvel. It gives him much more credibility than the Hulk due to the Hulk's reputation. I know Thor fans will say, but Thor is stronger because he did this or that, Thor is better because of this or that...whatever. Truth is, the Hulk is "billed" as the physically strongest and despite how hard Thor fans argue, all the examples shown in their fights after Defenders #10 prove it. No one can deny that. Even in recent years (I would say after Thor was humbled by Superman back in 2003), Thor has been either downgraded or disrespected more than ANY other character in recent memory and it's such a surprise because he is more popular now than ever...just not as popular as the Hulk, or as beloved. Hey, please don't shoot the messenger...I just call 'em as I see 'em...and that's why they pay me so well.

But regardless, this issue has so much significance to the Thor mythos than Beta Ray Bill or Surtur or Infinity or Mangog or Zeus, etc. due to demand. It's YOU guys that want to see "Hulk vs Thor" and it's YOU who want answers to the debates and arguments. All Thor's other battles are big, it's just that his battles with the Hulk are his biggest. And whether people like it or not, that is the way it is...

#14 Posted by cmartin (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

Of course. But more so for Thor because the Hulk is known as the strongest character for Marvel. It gives him much more credibility than the Hulk due to the Hulk's reputation. I know Thor fans will say, but Thor is stronger because he did this or that, Thor is better because of this or that...whatever. Truth is, the Hulk is "billed" as the physically strongest and despite how hard Thor fans argue, all the examples shown in their fights after Defenders #10 prove it. No one can deny that. Even in recent years (I would say after Thor was humbled by Superman back in 2003), Thor has been either downgraded or disrespected more than ANY other character in recent memory and it's such a surprise because he is more popular now than ever...just not as popular as the Hulk, or as beloved. Hey, please don't shoot the messenger...I just call 'em as I see 'em...and that's why they pay me so well.

But regardless, this issue has so much significance to the Thor mythos than Beta Ray Bill or Surtur or Infinity or Mangog or Zeus, etc. due to demand. It's YOU guys that want to see "Hulk vs Thor" and it's YOU who want answers to the debates and arguments. All Thor's other battles are big, it's just that his battles with the Hulk are his biggest. And whether people like it or not, that is the way it is...

How many times has superman humbled hulk???

And yes i do see marvel has little regard for thor, as he is a jobber these days

#15 Edited by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@cmartin said:

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

Of course. But more so for Thor because the Hulk is known as the strongest character for Marvel. It gives him much more credibility than the Hulk due to the Hulk's reputation. I know Thor fans will say, but Thor is stronger because he did this or that, Thor is better because of this or that...whatever. Truth is, the Hulk is "billed" as the physically strongest and despite how hard Thor fans argue, all the examples shown in their fights after Defenders #10 prove it. No one can deny that. Even in recent years (I would say after Thor was humbled by Superman back in 2003), Thor has been either downgraded or disrespected more than ANY other character in recent memory and it's such a surprise because he is more popular now than ever...just not as popular as the Hulk, or as beloved. Hey, please don't shoot the messenger...I just call 'em as I see 'em...and that's why they pay me so well.

But regardless, this issue has so much significance to the Thor mythos than Beta Ray Bill or Surtur or Infinity or Mangog or Zeus, etc. due to demand. It's YOU guys that want to see "Hulk vs Thor" and it's YOU who want answers to the debates and arguments. All Thor's other battles are big, it's just that his battles with the Hulk are his biggest. And whether people like it or not, that is the way it is...

How many times has superman humbled hulk???

And yes i do see marvel has little regard for thor, as he is a jobber these days

What does Superman fighting the Hulk have to do with this? But if you want to go there, it was a fan voted fight and that doesn't really hold much credibility to the overall debate. So when Thor got beaten by Supes, it was agreed upon by Marvel and DC, so it's official no matter how much we hate it. In the DC vs Marvel event, Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wolverine were not going to lose no matter who they were fighting. They are the 4 most popular characters in comics, so you can bet on that. As for Hulk vs Superman in the Treasury back in the 80's? Let's just say that I've already spoke with Jim Shooter about this and his answers will surprise you...so wait and see for upcoming articles in my blog because things are gonna get good.

Thanks for the interest.

#16 Posted by cmartin (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

@cmartin said:

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

Of course. But more so for Thor because the Hulk is known as the strongest character for Marvel. It gives him much more credibility than the Hulk due to the Hulk's reputation. I know Thor fans will say, but Thor is stronger because he did this or that, Thor is better because of this or that...whatever. Truth is, the Hulk is "billed" as the physically strongest and despite how hard Thor fans argue, all the examples shown in their fights after Defenders #10 prove it. No one can deny that. Even in recent years (I would say after Thor was humbled by Superman back in 2003), Thor has been either downgraded or disrespected more than ANY other character in recent memory and it's such a surprise because he is more popular now than ever...just not as popular as the Hulk, or as beloved. Hey, please don't shoot the messenger...I just call 'em as I see 'em...and that's why they pay me so well.

But regardless, this issue has so much significance to the Thor mythos than Beta Ray Bill or Surtur or Infinity or Mangog or Zeus, etc. due to demand. It's YOU guys that want to see "Hulk vs Thor" and it's YOU who want answers to the debates and arguments. All Thor's other battles are big, it's just that his battles with the Hulk are his biggest. And whether people like it or not, that is the way it is...

How many times has superman humbled hulk???

And yes i do see marvel has little regard for thor, as he is a jobber these days

What does Superman fighting the Hulk have to do with this? But if you want to go there, it was a fan voted fight and that doesn't really hold much credibility to the overall debate. So when Thor got beaten by Supes, it was agreed upon by Marvel and DC, so it's official no matter how much we hate it. In the DC vs Marvel event, Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wolverine were not going to lose no matter who they were fighting. They are the 4 most popular characters in comics, so you can bet on that. As for Hulk vs Superman in the Treasury back in the 80's? Let's just say that I've already spoke with Jim Shooter about this and his answers will surprise you...so wait and see for upcoming articles in my blog because things are gonna get good.

Thanks for the interest.

I went there to prove a point and it worked.....

#17 Posted by Mego_Stretch_Hulk (210 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by Clark_EL (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice

#19 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@cmartin said:

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

@cmartin said:

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

Of course. But more so for Thor because the Hulk is known as the strongest character for Marvel. It gives him much more credibility than the Hulk due to the Hulk's reputation. I know Thor fans will say, but Thor is stronger because he did this or that, Thor is better because of this or that...whatever. Truth is, the Hulk is "billed" as the physically strongest and despite how hard Thor fans argue, all the examples shown in their fights after Defenders #10 prove it. No one can deny that. Even in recent years (I would say after Thor was humbled by Superman back in 2003), Thor has been either downgraded or disrespected more than ANY other character in recent memory and it's such a surprise because he is more popular now than ever...just not as popular as the Hulk, or as beloved. Hey, please don't shoot the messenger...I just call 'em as I see 'em...and that's why they pay me so well.

But regardless, this issue has so much significance to the Thor mythos than Beta Ray Bill or Surtur or Infinity or Mangog or Zeus, etc. due to demand. It's YOU guys that want to see "Hulk vs Thor" and it's YOU who want answers to the debates and arguments. All Thor's other battles are big, it's just that his battles with the Hulk are his biggest. And whether people like it or not, that is the way it is...

How many times has superman humbled hulk???

And yes i do see marvel has little regard for thor, as he is a jobber these days

What does Superman fighting the Hulk have to do with this? But if you want to go there, it was a fan voted fight and that doesn't really hold much credibility to the overall debate. So when Thor got beaten by Supes, it was agreed upon by Marvel and DC, so it's official no matter how much we hate it. In the DC vs Marvel event, Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wolverine were not going to lose no matter who they were fighting. They are the 4 most popular characters in comics, so you can bet on that. As for Hulk vs Superman in the Treasury back in the 80's? Let's just say that I've already spoke with Jim Shooter about this and his answers will surprise you...so wait and see for upcoming articles in my blog because things are gonna get good.

Thanks for the interest.

I went there to prove a point and it worked.....

What point?

#20 Edited by Lvenger (19303 posts) - - Show Bio

@cmartin said:

@Mego_Stretch_Hulk said:

Of course. But more so for Thor because the Hulk is known as the strongest character for Marvel. It gives him much more credibility than the Hulk due to the Hulk's reputation. I know Thor fans will say, but Thor is stronger because he did this or that, Thor is better because of this or that...whatever. Truth is, the Hulk is "billed" as the physically strongest and despite how hard Thor fans argue, all the examples shown in their fights after Defenders #10 prove it. No one can deny that. Even in recent years (I would say after Thor was humbled by Superman back in 2003), Thor has been either downgraded or disrespected more than ANY other character in recent memory and it's such a surprise because he is more popular now than ever...just not as popular as the Hulk, or as beloved. Hey, please don't shoot the messenger...I just call 'em as I see 'em...and that's why they pay me so well.

But regardless, this issue has so much significance to the Thor mythos than Beta Ray Bill or Surtur or Infinity or Mangog or Zeus, etc. due to demand. It's YOU guys that want to see "Hulk vs Thor" and it's YOU who want answers to the debates and arguments. All Thor's other battles are big, it's just that his battles with the Hulk are his biggest. And whether people like it or not, that is the way it is...

How many times has superman humbled hulk???

And yes i do see marvel has little regard for thor, as he is a jobber these days

What does Superman fighting the Hulk have to do with this? But if you want to go there, it was a fan voted fight and that doesn't really hold much credibility to the overall debate. So when Thor got beaten by Supes, it was agreed upon by Marvel and DC, so it's official no matter how much we hate it. In the DC vs Marvel event, Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wolverine were not going to lose no matter who they were fighting. They are the 4 most popular characters in comics, so you can bet on that. As for Hulk vs Superman in the Treasury back in the 80's? Let's just say that I've already spoke with Jim Shooter about this and his answers will surprise you...so wait and see for upcoming articles in my blog because things are gonna get good.

Thanks for the interest.

Sorry what's this about Jim Shooter's view on the Superman vs Hulk fight? Obviously the fan voted outcome has little credibility but on many forums it's been concluded that due to being in the same physical range as Hulk plus being faster and more power versatility, Superman would win if we're using the Pre Flashpoint version. If Shooter's going to say otherwise, he'll be contradicting decades worth of feats that outweigh his view by far.

#21 Edited by Fifthchild (599 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@mego_stretch_hulk said:

What does Superman fighting the Hulk have to do with this? But if you want to go there, it was a fan voted fight and that doesn't really hold much credibility to the overall debate. So when Thor got beaten by Supes, it was agreed upon by Marvel and DC, so it's official no matter how much we hate it. In the DC vs Marvel event, Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wolverine were not going to lose no matter who they were fighting. They are the 4 most popular characters in comics, so you can bet on that. As for Hulk vs Superman in the Treasury back in the 80's? Let's just say that I've already spoke with Jim Shooter about this and his answers will surprise you...so wait and see for upcoming articles in my blog because things are gonna get good.

Thanks for the interest.

Sorry what's this about Jim Shooter's view on the Superman vs Hulk fight? Obviously the fan voted outcome has little credibility but on many forums it's been concluded that due to being in the same physical range as Hulk plus being faster and more power versatility, Superman would win if we're using the Pre Flashpoint version. If Shooter's going to say otherwise, he'll be contradicting decades worth of feats that outweigh his view by far.

Its only a matter of opinion that "decades worth of feats" prove Superman should beat Hulk. I'm sure most people on comicvine would agree but the average level of knowledge on this site is pretty low and most people just go off what everyone else says. Most forums in general tend to diverge pretty heavily from "comic book reality" in considering fights (some drastically so) and so the conclusions they draw often dont have much relevance to anything in particular IMO. Nevertheless I'm not saying Superman couldnt/wouldn't beat the Hulk or anything and i would probably give him 6/10 or perhaps a little less for not entirely dissimilar reasons. But its not like its written in stone or anything and to argue otherwise is a sign of insanity.

At any rate given Shooter wrote one of the only three matchups between the Hulk and Superman that actually saw print (and Mego Stretch is talking here about Shooter's opinion on the issue/fight that he in fact wrote) I would say his point of view would be at the least of interest. At least much as that of a random bunch of comic fans on a forum.

#22 Edited by Lvenger (19303 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@mego_stretch_hulk said:

What does Superman fighting the Hulk have to do with this? But if you want to go there, it was a fan voted fight and that doesn't really hold much credibility to the overall debate. So when Thor got beaten by Supes, it was agreed upon by Marvel and DC, so it's official no matter how much we hate it. In the DC vs Marvel event, Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wolverine were not going to lose no matter who they were fighting. They are the 4 most popular characters in comics, so you can bet on that. As for Hulk vs Superman in the Treasury back in the 80's? Let's just say that I've already spoke with Jim Shooter about this and his answers will surprise you...so wait and see for upcoming articles in my blog because things are gonna get good.

Thanks for the interest.

Sorry what's this about Jim Shooter's view on the Superman vs Hulk fight? Obviously the fan voted outcome has little credibility but on many forums it's been concluded that due to being in the same physical range as Hulk plus being faster and more power versatility, Superman would win if we're using the Pre Flashpoint version. If Shooter's going to say otherwise, he'll be contradicting decades worth of feats that outweigh his view by far.

Its only a matter of opinion that "decades worth of feats" prove Superman should beat Hulk. I'm sure most people on comicvine would agree but the average level of knowledge on this site is pretty low and most people just go off what everyone else says. Most forums in general tend to diverge pretty heavily from "comic book reality" in considering fights (some drastically so) and so the conclusions they draw often dont have much relevance to anything in particular IMO. Nevertheless I'm not saying Superman couldnt/wouldn't beat the Hulk or anything and i would probably give him 6/10 or perhaps a little less for not entirely dissimilar reasons. But its not like its written in stone or anything and to argue otherwise is a sign of insanity.

At any rate given Shooter wrote one of the only three matchups between the Hulk and Superman that actually saw print (and Mego Stretch is talking here about Shooter's opinion on the issue/fight that he in fact wrote) I would say his point of view would be at the least of interest. At least much as that of a random bunch of comic fans on a forum.

Did he write the Superman/Hulk crossover then? In any case, Shooter is probably more familiar with the classic Superman and Hulk than the modern versions. Hence my decades worth of feats point. There's a lot Shooter has missed out on. Peter David's input is more credible since he's more aware of the character's modern feats and Mego Stretch references that in his blog on Superman vs Hulk. As for the fight not being set in stone, it is true that it's the case. Nonetheless, on the battle forums where writers and plot do not affect the outcome of the fight, Superman should have a much greater chance of beating Hulk than vice versa. 8/10 if we talk Pre Flashpoint vs modern Hulk.

#23 Posted by Fifthchild (599 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@fifthchild said:

@lvenger said:

@mego_stretch_hulk said:

What does Superman fighting the Hulk have to do with this? But if you want to go there, it was a fan voted fight and that doesn't really hold much credibility to the overall debate. So when Thor got beaten by Supes, it was agreed upon by Marvel and DC, so it's official no matter how much we hate it. In the DC vs Marvel event, Superman, Batman, Spider-man and Wolverine were not going to lose no matter who they were fighting. They are the 4 most popular characters in comics, so you can bet on that. As for Hulk vs Superman in the Treasury back in the 80's? Let's just say that I've already spoke with Jim Shooter about this and his answers will surprise you...so wait and see for upcoming articles in my blog because things are gonna get good.

Thanks for the interest.

Sorry what's this about Jim Shooter's view on the Superman vs Hulk fight? Obviously the fan voted outcome has little credibility but on many forums it's been concluded that due to being in the same physical range as Hulk plus being faster and more power versatility, Superman would win if we're using the Pre Flashpoint version. If Shooter's going to say otherwise, he'll be contradicting decades worth of feats that outweigh his view by far.

Its only a matter of opinion that "decades worth of feats" prove Superman should beat Hulk. I'm sure most people on comicvine would agree but the average level of knowledge on this site is pretty low and most people just go off what everyone else says. Most forums in general tend to diverge pretty heavily from "comic book reality" in considering fights (some drastically so) and so the conclusions they draw often dont have much relevance to anything in particular IMO. Nevertheless I'm not saying Superman couldnt/wouldn't beat the Hulk or anything and i would probably give him 6/10 or perhaps a little less for not entirely dissimilar reasons. But its not like its written in stone or anything and to argue otherwise is a sign of insanity.

At any rate given Shooter wrote one of the only three matchups between the Hulk and Superman that actually saw print (and Mego Stretch is talking here about Shooter's opinion on the issue/fight that he in fact wrote) I would say his point of view would be at the least of interest. At least much as that of a random bunch of comic fans on a forum.

Did he write the Superman/Hulk crossover then? In any case, Shooter is probably more familiar with the classic Superman and Hulk than the modern versions. Hence my decades worth of feats point. There's a lot Shooter has missed out on. Peter David's input is more credible since he's more aware of the character's modern feats and Mego Stretch references that in his blog on Superman vs Hulk. As for the fight not being set in stone, it is true that it's the case. Nonetheless, on the battle forums where writers and plot do not affect the outcome of the fight, Superman should have a much greater chance of beating Hulk than vice versa. 8/10 if we talk Pre Flashpoint vs modern Hulk.

He didnt write the last Hulk vs Superman crossover - he wrote the Spiderman-Superman crossover in which Hulk encounters Pre-Crisis Superman. And again to be clear - the fact that Shooter's comments are apparently directly related to this fight, and not some sweeping generalization about Hulk vs Superman, if anything that makes them pretty authoritative.

As for the decades worth of feats and Shooter being out of touch - this hardly works in Superman's disfavour. The version of Superman was familiar with was the Pre-Crisis version which most people would admit is at the worst as powerful as any modern version. While Superman has had some nice feats of course since then if anything the Hulk would benefit more given that he has racked up plenty of over the top showings in the years since Shooter's reign.

Even then i think the idea that some a bunch of recent feats are the main determining factor in who would/should win show the gulf between creator opinions and your average battleboard fan and why so many posters dont really "get" the way creators think or approach this kind of stuff. But thats another story.

Anyway I disagree with the idea that Hulk has some kind of "plot protection" in a comic fight that is absent in forums. At least not exclusively. You could easily argue that Superman would be "protected" from being embarassed by the Hulk's increasing strength in print when he actually should be. Which is part of the problem when people start rewriting and second guessing everything on forums - usually in a way that excessively benefits "versatile" characters IMO.

As i see it, the two are roughly peers - super-heavyweights with different strengths and weaknesses. Supermans advantages are his "complete package" of powers, particularly his mobility and speed. Hulks advantages are his dynamic strength and power and his sometimes crazy regenerative powers/stamina. Depending on how the fight plays to those relative abilities determines who wins. Superman's main tactical advantage IMO is that he usually has the ability to steer the battle in his favour moreso than the Hulk.

#24 Posted by Lvenger (19303 posts) - - Show Bio

He didnt write the last Hulk vs Superman crossover - he wrote the Spiderman-Superman crossover in which Hulk encounters Pre-Crisis Superman. And again to be clear - the fact that Shooter's comments are apparently directly related to this fight, and not some sweeping generalization about Hulk vs Superman, if anything that makes them pretty authoritative.

As for the decades worth of feats and Shooter being out of touch - this hardly works in Superman's disfavour. The version of Superman was familiar with was the Pre-Crisis version which most people would admit is at the worst as powerful as any modern version. While Superman has had some nice feats of course since then if anything the Hulk would benefit more given that he has racked up plenty of over the top showings in the years since Shooter's reign.

Even then i think the idea that some a bunch of recent feats are the main determining factor in who would/should win show the gulf between creator opinions and your average battleboard fan and why so many posters dont really "get" the way creators think or approach this kind of stuff. But thats another story.

Anyway I disagree with the idea that Hulk has some kind of "plot protection" in a comic fight that is absent in forums. At least not exclusively. You could easily argue that Superman would be "protected" from being embarassed by the Hulk's increasing strength in print when he actually should be. Which is part of the problem when people start rewriting and second guessing everything on forums - usually in a way that excessively benefits "versatile" characters IMO.

As i see it, the two are roughly peers - super-heavyweights with different strengths and weaknesses. Supermans advantages are his "complete package" of powers, particularly his mobility and speed. Hulks advantages are his dynamic strength and power and his sometimes crazy regenerative powers/stamina. Depending on how the fight plays to those relative abilities determines who wins. Superman's main tactical advantage IMO is that he usually has the ability to steer the battle in his favour moreso than the Hulk.

Oh that one. I have that crossover. How could I forget? Again I have to say that this only makes him an authority on a Pre Crisis vs Classic Hulk fight, not a sweeping modern generalisation. It's ludicrous to apply classic feats to the characters' modern versions.

It does show Shooter is out of touch because his input is based on the character he is writing ie a classic SA uber powered version of Superman against a classic version of Hulk. SA Superman vastly outclasses Hulk even more than modern Superman does. He could fly fast enough to travel through time and effortlessly move several planets. Seriously that isn't even a contest. Shooter had to write that fight in some way which made Superman and Hulk come off in a good light.

You misunderstand my point about plot protection. In most comic book written fights, the plot has intervened to stop the fight. For instance Thor vs Hulk fights are greatly subject to this. Something happens that interrupts the fight between Thor and Hulk and leaves the winner undecided in most fights. Superman's experienced this too so I'm not just applying this to Hulk. It's the case in many hotly debated comic book match ups. Without plot in the way, all that's left on a strict battle in the battle forum is the feats to see who is the superior combatant.

The way I see it, pitting a brick against a brick who can fly, move very fast, shoot the heat of a star from his eyes and arctic winds from his mouth along with superhuman senses, intellect and fighting skills and the winner is very obvious. Superman has far more cards on the table than Hulk can offer for certain. In most fights, Superman's complete package vastly outweighs Hulk's strength and regenerative powers. There have also been plenty of arguments which show Hulk not to have unlimited strength, just a non disclosed upper limit. Besides Superman's lifting and striking feats put him easily in Hulk's level. And if you don't believe me, check this link out. It's where I go for my Pre Flashpoint Superman feats. Read this and tell me you still think Hulk has more than a 2-3/10 chance of winning.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/toptom/blog/pre-52-superman-capability-thread/84991/

#25 Posted by Fifthchild (599 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

I'm going to have to answer like this due to comicvines horrible new input system which doesnt let you escape into raw HTML anymore and get around there terrrible quote system

Oh that one. I have that crossover. How could I forget? Again I have to say that this only makes him an authority on a Pre Crisis vs Classic Hulk fight, not a sweeping modern generalisation. It's ludicrous to apply classic feats to the characters' modern versions.

This is about the 5th time ive said this but - nobody is claiming he is an authority on Hulk vs Superman - MS was claiming to have quotes from him about the fight that he wrote - which yes, he probably is something of an authority on I would think. So while ive addressed this a few times - its just not relevant really as some kind of objection.

It does show Shooter is out of touch because his input is based on the character he is writing ie a classic SA uber powered version of Superman against a classic version of Hulk. SA Superman vastly outclasses Hulk even more than modern Superman does. He could fly fast enough to travel through time and effortlessly move several planets. Seriously that isn't even a contest. Shooter had to write that fight in some way which made Superman and Hulk come off in a good light.

I know who Pre-Crisis Superman is and how powerful he (sometimes) was. And heres the uncomfortable thing for some - the Hulk was reaching Pre-Crisis Superman's level of strength, seemingly in a matter of seconds, and again was seemingly well on his way to eclipsing that level of power. Thats the Hulk and thats why the idea that he is "just a brick" is missing the whole point.

You misunderstand my point about plot protection. In most comic book written fights, the plot has intervened to stop the fight. For instance Thor vs Hulk fights are greatly subject to this. Something happens that interrupts the fight between Thor and Hulk and leaves the winner undecided in most fights. Superman's experienced this too so I'm not just applying this to Hulk. It's the case in many hotly debated comic book match ups. Without plot in the way, all that's left on a strict battle in the battle forum is the feats to see who is the superior combatant.

I agree about the interruption thing but i disagree that "all thats left are the feats". Most people who debate this sort of thing in what i would say is a more sophisticated fashion than is typically seen on comicvine agree that feats are a pretty terrible way of judging how characters match up with one another or at least are deeply flawed. Feats vary wildly from story to story and writer to writer, much more than fights. Some of the more powerful characters have zero in the way of feats. Some characters who are clearly less powerful than others have vastly superior feats. That said I dont think they are meaningless but forums who place undue weight on feats often tend to come to absurd conclusions.

The way I see it, pitting a brick against a brick who can fly, move very fast, shoot the heat of a star from his eyes and arctic winds from his mouth along with superhuman senses, intellect and fighting skills and the winner is very obvious.

And this kind of simplistic thinking wildly misses the mark IMO. Yes Superman has more powers, some of those are going to be a factor in a fight and some arent. The simple fact this ignores is Hulks powerset is massively geared towards winning knock down drag out brawls. Sure he cant hear a butterfly in Tibet and probably wouldnt be much good at saving a falling 747 but he is perfectly suited to kicking the ass of some very powerful people.

Superman has far more cards on the table than Hulk can offer for certain. In most fights, Superman's complete package vastly outweighs Hulk's strength and regenerative powers.

Hes got some nice cards but hes also got a bunch that arent particularly relevant. One of Iron Man's old suits had a pair of rollerskates but i doubt this boost to his versatility one him many fights.

There have also been plenty of arguments which show Hulk not to have unlimited strength, just a non disclosed upper limit.

Thats nice.

Besides Superman's lifting and striking feats put him easily in Hulk's level. And if you don't believe me, check this link out. It's where I go for my Pre Flashpoint Superman feats. Read this and tell me you still think Hulk has more than a 2-3/10 chance of winning.

You'll find a much better and more complete Respect thread at herochat amongst other places. And i'm familiar with pretty much everything pre52 Superman ever did of note. And thats what i base my assesment on - Superman probably takes 6/10 against the Hulk. Most fights are close. Some Superman could take easily with BFR. Some of the 4 that he loses however are potentially brutal stomps in the Hulk's favour.

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