Thor Odinson is the All-father of Asgard /God of Thunder, offspring of All-Father Odin & Elder-Goddess Gaea. Combining the powers of both realms makes him an elder-god hybrid and a being of no perceivable limits. Armed with his enchanted Uru hammer Mjolnir which helps him to channel his godly energies. The mightiest and the most beloved warrior in all of Asgard, a staunch ally for good and one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse/omniverse. Thor is also a founding member of the Avengers.
" I never ever see these threads when a white actor plays a minorities role in a film? Where is the outrage about Prince of Persia not being Persian, Angelina Jolie playing the African American role in Wanted, or Ben Kingsly in Gandhi, don't get me started on Dragonball, the new Tekken movie, Egyptians and numerous others. Seems to me that the OP is more bothered by it than the supposed PC crowd. Also how do you know how all black people feel? Where you elected by them? "
Actually Ben Kingsley is Indian, his real name is Krishna. Also Persians are technically white, so the prince being white is irrelevant. The guy in the Tekken movie is half Asian, so close enough. There were a ton of people that complained about Dragonball Z and Wanted, maybe not on the vine but they're out there. Who cares if Heimdall is being played by a black guy. I just want a good actor in the role that can pull off the character. Maybe this guy auditioned and they gave it too him just because he was that good, who knows. Could be like Kingpin though where this guy was a good actor and had the stature they were looking for. I mean can you name a white guy that could have pulled off the Kingpin? Plus Heimdall is a secondary character, so whats the big deal? "
Wow, say "black" or "white" and your blog will explode with comments for months to come. I think I'm going to just throw those words in all my blogs to soothe my worn ego by knowing people are reading my words.
I'm kidding, but seriously. It's not a "us and them" thing. A "my race" and "your race" thing. Historically, Nordic people did actually migrate to the Northern end of Africa, but that's not the point. So yes, I imagine there were plenty of black folks who worshipped the Nordic Pantheon. Not the point. My point is that Heimdall has never been a black guy (before now). He doesn't look anything like a black guy (until now). Basically they changed him and I don't like it.
Now my later point was that I don't like this token minority thing in the media. Screw this mass appeal thing by throwing a character in that just doesn't fit. Black people are just as unique and diverse and the rest of us, and I think that the media needs to start displaying that fact a little more.
I don't understand the hypersensitivity to this subject. For example, the way I see it, there isn't "black history". As if the history of black people is somehow different from that of the rest of America. There is merely "American History". Black people are Americans, and thus belong with the rest of us. It's this type of seperation that I believe is a cause of much of the racial tension in America. I'm not denying that many influencial people in American History are black. Some of the most remarkable people in the world are black or were black when they were alive.
There has been a great and horrible divide amongst blacks and whites in America for so very very long, but what I am saying is I believe this is coming to an end. It's time we accepted that black people and white people are equally diverse, equally flawed, just plain equal. I can't honestly believe that black people are in any way seperate from the rest of the countrywhen the President of ths country is black. The leader of my country and in my case, my Commander in Chief. A man who holds my very mortal life in his hands. A man whom I have sworn loyalty to. A man I would give my life for like so many other of my leaders and my friends is black.
Understand that I'm talking about dying violently for this man. Losing my life or my limb. I have risked being shot, blown up, burned alive, kidnapped and tortured for an unknown number of months with fire, blades, poison, bludgeoning weapons, hand tools, power drills, and countless other means until finally my head is cut off with a dull knife.
The president is one among many black people that I would follow to my own horrible death. I have risked everything because a black man has asked me to, and I will again for the 3rd time next year (although only the 2nd time will I do this for a black guy). I will leave my wife and children and go fight this mans enemies to the death on his behalf for no less that a full year. I do this by my own free will. Still I am accused of being racist because I don't like that they cast a black guy as Heimdall.
So I guess I've offended some of you. Sorry to hurt your sensitive feelings but I feel my actions show that I am not a bigot more than your words. I don't like stereotypical black people in movies because they don't act anything like any of the black people I have come to know, love, and respect in my life. Those in the media who are responsible for doing this should be ashamed because, frankly, they make my friends look bad.
Deathinfire, if thor or odin were to resurrect the rest of the gang like they did in the past then it wouldn't matter what ethnic they are. It's the soul that counts. Best example, Loki.
@DeathinFire: Yeah...I see what you mean. If however, you are having difficulty placing the ethnic pantheons together (meaning...how did the African pantheon get mixed up with the Norse pantheon of gods?) ...it might not be a stretch to imagine that African's in history have been enslaved to just about every major world power on this planet, including ancient China, Japan and Persia...save of course, Egypt when she was in power thousands and thousands of years ago. Ancient Egypt and ancient Ethiopia were allies. Be kinda pathetic to think that the gods practiced slavery...but given the circumstances, what the heck?
I missed the part as to why the OP thinks the Black Panther sucks. As far as Heimdall being Black, I don't really have a problem with it. At the same time, Heimdall, as a Marvel character, isn't very pivotal, not to mention popular or noticeable, like Thor is. As a result, the general audience that the movie is aimed at isn't really expecting him to be a certain race. Generally speaking, many people going to see the movie aren't going to care if he's Black or White. Also, like CATMANEXE said, Asgardians aren't actually descendants of the human race, and what they look like is only dependent on the believer. People can look at the movie Heimdall being Black as 'political correctness' or 'affirmative action' if they want, but at the end of the day, who cares? Nobody cares about Heimdall that much, anyway.
@King_Thor: I don't know specific years so I couldn't give you a time period as to when the Norse tribes of Germany (the Ostrogoths or whatever, the ones that were forced out by Rome) had migrated East, then South, then West into Northern Africa but they did so to be close to Rome. I have never heard anything about those specific people keeping slaves. However, I'm pretty sure nearly every civilization in the World has at one point kept slaves (some still do). The "Vikings" were Norse by faith however "Viking" basically means pirate and the actions of the Vikings were not condoned, supported, or funded by the governments of the Nordic people (at least not significantly like the Privateers of a later time). Remember that Timothy McVeigh is a Christian, his actions don't reflect the faith. The Vikings, however, were known to keep slaves of those they raided, at least when they could.
My thought was that there were probably Black people who were of Nordic faith simply because the Germanic Tribes lived in Africa for a period of time shortly before they went to war with Rome again. You get enough of them living in Africa, they either made enemies or they made freinds. As far as I know they didn't fight anyone in Africa so I imagine they made friends so while I don't imagine it was a common thing, but there had to have picked up a couple Africans along the way. Still this is History and myth I'm talking, not Marvel U.
@Static Shock: The Asgardians are described in the Poetic Edda or whatever (I can't recall exactly the name of the two most widely known and referenced texts on Norse myth) with a significant amount of detail. So while they aren't descendants of the human race and you both are correct that their appearance is left somewhat to the believer, there was a rough image of what they looked like. That's the myth side of it though, and doesn't really apply quite that much to the Marvel U. It seems to me that apparently I'm the only one who cares about Heimdall, but still, I think Heimdall is cool. He doesn't get much but when he does (his conversation with Aries during the attack on Asgard in Seige) it's a cool little moment. Heimdall's a notable character to me, I care more about him then say, Hank Pym.
What it comes down to is that what's done is done. The movie is being made and dude is Heimdall. I'll still watch it, probably love it, and come to accept it. It is what it is. I eat what I'm fed.
Seeing as how the movie isn't even out yet and nobody could possibly judge whether or not casting Idris Elba as Heimdall was a good/bad choice, I find it a bit annoying that it's been given this much attention (the IMDB forums, for instance, have several multi-page threads about this exact topic). Especially as Heimdall wasn't that important a character in the first place.
" Seeing as how the movie isn't even out yet and nobody could possibly judge whether or not casting Idris Elba as Heimdall was a good/bad choice, I find it a bit annoying that it's been given this much attention (the IMDB forums, for instance, have several multi-page threads about this exact topic). Especially as Heimdall wasn't that important a character in the first place. "
Whether or not Elba was a good choice has nothing to do with his acting skills. You do not cast a white man to play Martin Luther King, just like you do not cast a black man to play the white god.
" I never ever see these threads when a white actor plays a minorities role in a film? Where is the outrage about Prince of Persia not being Persian, Angelina Jolie playing the African American role in Wanted, or Ben Kingsly in Gandhi, don't get me started on Dragonball, the new Tekken movie, Egyptians and numerous others. Seems to me that the OP is more bothered by it than the supposed PC crowd. Also how do you know how all black people feel? Where you elected by them? "
Actually Ben Kingsley is Indian, his real name is Krishna. Also Persians are technically white, so the prince being white is irrelevant. The guy in the Tekken movie is half Asian, so close enough. There were a ton of people that complained about Dragonball Z and Wanted, maybe not on the vine but they're out there. Who cares if Heimdall is being played by a black guy. I just want a good actor in the role that can pull off the character. Maybe this guy auditioned and they gave it too him just because he was that good, who knows. Could be like Kingpin though where this guy was a good actor and had the stature they were looking for. I mean can you name a white guy that could have pulled off the Kingpin? Plus Heimdall is a secondary character, so whats the big deal? "
Persians are not white, they are caucasian, difference. Indians and Arabs are caucasian as well, but not white. Half asian is close enough? like the legend of Chun Li? Kreuk was believable as a full blooded Han? Why are you asking me what the big deal is when I'm replying to the OP?
@Vathers
said:
" @Taliax: First of all, Persian means Iraqi. Find me an Iraqi that looks like the Prince of Persia. Then you'd have a point. Angelina Jolie was terrible in Wanted. Every black person I've met will agree, Black Panther is simply the cure all for black inclusion. "
Iraqi's are Arab not Persian (northern iraqis are Kurds). Did you research that at all? Maybe you thought because they (Iraq and Iran) are both Shia muslim countries that they were the the same. Every Black person you have met will agree Black Panther is the cure for Black inclusion? Really? What does that have to do with the thread or what I was responding to?
Ok I'm a black guy and I'm a big comic fan and honestly I feel the same with movies. I hate when they put in a big star that doesn't fit the role just to try to bring in more fans, I feel like they betraying the true fans to try and bring in more fans. If marvel spent more time trying to get quality actors that really did fit the role rather then somebody to gain notice. I would much rather have a no name actor that can play a roll great then a famous person who knows nothing about their character and not only doesn't fit the role, but sucks in the role too.
@Walker696: Yeah. It's also so embarrassing when the actors try to pretend that they actually have a legitimate interest in the comics. Makes it feel almost worse xD
Why are you upset when a black actor is playing a fictional character that was originally white? White people are always playing the parts of non-whites. When are whites going stop playing the roles of ancient Egyptians. Ancient Egyptian pharaoah, queens and the people were black.
The latest racist Hollywood casting in the Last Airbender (Avatar) have two the main characters as white when the characters in the asian animation series were non white.
Yeah i like Black black people i'm white and many ALL of my friends are black but sometimes the people casting the characters need to read the comic book.
And it's like with the Avatar" The Last Airbender movie they cast mainly Indians in the entire movie and i'm not racist but i don't think that Uncle Iroh is a skinny indian he strikes me as husky Chinese/American dude but hopefully it's for the best
@Zak2: The difference, I suppose, is that the Thor movie is one that I'm actually going to watch. Heimdall is a character I care about. I'd be mad if they cast Rhodey as a white dude too.
Nobody complained when Storm was played by Halle Barry, and Storm is Egyptian.
Haha, it depends on one's perception of what was originally in mind for the character, when there is a drastic change in the representation it can evoke a state of shock and outrage, but nobody noticed with Storm.
" The latest racist Hollywood casting in the Last Airbender (Avatar) have two the main characters as white when the characters in the asian animation series were non white. "
The original series was not Asian, it was American. In addition, the characters did not have any nationalities besides those of the elements, so I fail to see how the casting is "racist" at all.
@DeadlyWolverine said:
" Nobody complained when Storm was played by Halle Barry"
I did. I complained a lot. It wasn't because she isn't Egyptian though.
I honestly don't see the problem... Heimdall is an Asgardian. He's not from Norway, Sweden, Finland, or Denmark. He's an Asgardian god. Where was he brought up? Asgard. Idris Elba is not playing an African-American Asgardian... he's just an Asgardian who happens to be black. You should also know that the actor is from London and has difficulty masking his accent when he's playing American roles (take Roque, for example). He's not going to be the token black man.
Kenneth Branagh just likes to cast colorblind; just look at Much Ado About Nothing (which can be said for the whole thread actually). Hollywood frequently changes the skin color of characters, the most recent example The Last Airbender. Maybe the head honchos were looking more for the actor with the carriage of Heimdall, than the skin tone. If it bothers you so much simply don't see the movie.
Hmmm...i clicked this ready to go to war. Honestly, you have a point. IN some movies they do sacrifice the integrity for the token. But the Black Panther is in fact..the shit.
I kind of skimmed through most of these posts, but at any rate ... I hadn't realized Heimdall was being played by a black actor in this movie. That being the case, yes I think that's a very odd choice, I just don't really see the point of it since Heimdall is a Norse God. Yes the Kingpin in the DareDevil movie was great, but a scandinavian God? .... I've seen some excuses on this thread for explaining why it should work, but they seem like they're reachin a bit. As someone mentioned before ... I agree that I don't want to see a white Luke Cage or a white actor playing a panther God of Wakanda. To whoever said (I can't remember) that you wouldn't care if Thor was even black in the movie ... hmmmm, I think you're lying ... lol. Come on ... You know damn well that would be all kinds of ridiculous. If I read that wrong, I apologize. Like I said I skimmed over most. :) but I think someone threw that out there ... I think we would all find that to be pretty silly, to make Thor black "just because" or to make some equal rights statement. Let's be realistic and honest with ourselves. Oh well, it was also mentioned that Heimdall's not a major character ... at least not enough to really change the credibility of the film or desire to see it. ... true and fair enough. It is what it is. Although I like Heimdall and the Warriors and Balder and Sif etc., and it definitely is a strange casting choice that I have to admit, seems forced ... just for the sake of casting a black actor, and I'm not of the opinion that this is the best philosophy to take when choosing a cast.
I'm also not sure if it was ever explained, ... but where was this explanation in the opening subject of "Why Black Panther Sucks" ??? I'm still very confused about that and what B.P. has to do with anything. Thor is one of my all time favorites and Black Panther is as well. So my response to that, if you're asking, is Black Panther does not suck ... in fact he is one of the best Marvel characters period.
"Ok I'm a black guy and I'm a big comic fan and honestly I feel the same with movies. I hate when they put in a big star that doesn't fit the role just to try to bring in more fans, I feel like they betraying the true fans to try and bring in more fans. If marvel spent more time trying to get quality actors that really did fit the role rather then somebody to gain notice. I would much rather have a no name actor that can play a roll great then a famous person who knows nothing about their character and not only doesn't fit the role, but sucks in the role too. "
Well the big problem with the initial premise of this thread, is your applying a generalized issue, problem and function or what have you, to something specific. Heimdall isn't being cast as a token black guy, the guy who chose his and cast him as the role, is known for colorblind casting, Kenneth Branagh. what that means is, he casts who he best feels would suit the role. In this case the studio is letting him. There are several, several ways to justify the discrepancies and thats where milage will vary. You'll either find it too distracting or hard to believe, or you can find it believable given the nature of Marvel's take on Thor, and then the movies take on the skewered comics version take. Or you won't really care to much.
The Aesir was worshipped as gods of all creation. They were creators of red, yellow, black and white peoples. Obviously, they will have a mixture of their creations. Now we know christianity. One God. Opps, He was played by George Burns. A white guy. Opps, Morgan Freeman played God also. Get it right. God has to be a Jew. Color is only wrong for people who Don't know what is right. We are all the same on the inside.
" Nobody complained when Storm was played by Halle Barry, and Storm is Egyptian. Haha, it depends on one's perception of what was originally in mind for the character, when there is a drastic change in the representation it can evoke a state of shock and outrage, but nobody noticed with Storm. Not much difference, eh? "
So wrong..dude
First of all in the comics Storm is black,point blank and period.Though black she is two different kinds of nationality.
Her father was an African-American ex; Will Smith,Barack Obama or Denzel Washington.
Her mother was Kenyan princess,not Egyptitan.though they did live in Egypt.Halle is Berry is an African-American,but like a great number of black americans she has while blood in her,but looks majory for the most part ehtnically and predominatly black.her dad is black and mom is italian or some ish.
and I mean in all honesty i feel the orignial OP i hate when characters are mis-casted ethnicity wise.but honestly i think some things can be made up as long as the acting is to the T. Now had Idris been a main character or had been a very important character to the MU or a stand alone character like Black Patnher. i'd really be annoyed.but in this case Heimdall is just a supporting character and in the comics he doesn't show up in the avengers,X-men or any of Thor's earth's affairs.Though yes it is wrong to miscast people if that is not who they are ethnically and historically wise.but what is so funny and yet ironic to me is that the Ancient Egyptitians are almost if all the time portrayed by a majority white cast, when in fact ancient Egyptians were black or started off that way as the first peoples in the land. Even now there aren't as many white Egyptitans,mosty Arabics and then Blacks make up a second poulation...yet no one points things like that out.
But the trailer looks good regardless.and me being a casual marvel reader and a fan of Hemsworth body i will go see this...mhmmm
Idris is sexy to BTW.but overall i agree not good to change characters so drastically.
" @Taliax: First of all, Persian means Iraqi. Find me an Iraqi that looks like the Prince of Persia. Then you'd have a point. Angelina Jolie was terrible in Wanted. Every black person I've met will agree, Black Panther is simply the cure all for black inclusion. "
Actually it's Iran that used to be Persia not Iraq, and if I'm not mistaken the word Iran actually means land of the ayrans.
" So if you know me and you prolly don't you know I'm a big Thor fan. So I'm on the IMDB and I was checking out the casting for the new movie. Anthony Hopkins as Odin, which is cool but I couldn't help but notice that Heimdall doesn't really look much like Heimdall. Because he's black. Before you all go nuts and talk like I'm some kind of racist hear what I gotta say. I'm not racist, there's plenty of black, hispanic, asian, alien, artificial intelligent characters in comics and I think that's great. My problem lies in the fact that, especially in movies, they throw in the "token minority" when it doesn't even fit. The Norse were white people. No big deal they were from Europe. So their Gods looked like they did. Big f'n deal. Why change that just because you "want to appeal to a bigger market" or some such thing. Maybe this guys a good actor and he'll portray the character well or whatever you never know I'm just saying. While I'm on the subject why is it that some writers feel it so important to throw in a black person that they come up with this lame character who's sole concept is they're "the Black Guy". I know black people and I gotta say, to them, it's not that big of a deal. Believe it or not they're complex individuals just like everyone else with they're own lives and opinions and they don't fit this cookie cutter image that they always get in the media. It's crap. I hate it. Let's hope for something different for Heimdall, or I'll kill whoever did their casting and wear their skin to ca
I agree that there is no reason for a black guy to play Hemimdall its like if Mikaboshi turned out to be a blond white European its just stupid
" @Taliax: First of all, Persian means Iraqi. Find me an Iraqi that looks like the Prince of Persia. Then you'd have a point. Angelina Jolie was terrible in Wanted. Every black person I've met will agree, Black Panther is simply the cure all for black inclusion. "
Actually it's Iran that used to be Persia not Iraq, and if I'm not mistaken the word Iran actually means land of the ayrans. "
as far as I know the ancient Persians where an Indo-Aryan race and looked rather greek like.
i still have yet to really see what this has to do with black panther.... he's black. big whoop. there are plenty of black heros: luke cage, war machine, ultimate nick fury, patriot, among others. i also fail to see the big deal with a black heimdall. i couldn't care less about the color of idrid elba's skin, mainly because he's a great actor. As long as he plays the part well, i really don't care.
I could careless as long as Steve Rodgers do go black and Luke Cage Dont turn white. Race is not an issue to me if it is a character that is lesser known, or if its a altnerate reality im cool as well, and Idris Elba is an awsome actor who will probley do a better job then the guy playing Thor to be honest. Rent a few of his movies and you will see.
Black Panther has is own comic.He's a premier popular Marvel character.To make him white would be absolutely asinine and disrespectful to the character.Heimdall isn't a fan favorite.He doesn't matter.So changing his race to fill the stupid movie affirmative action quota isn't a big deal.If you aren't going to see Thor because a character that doesn't matter to the story at all is black..then don't.Don't make this a race issue.It's simply a poor casting choice
But honestly I really don't care about Heimdall. The movie is called THOR for a reason. It's about Thor. Not Heimdall. Making Heimdall a black guy is the same as making Jarvis a robot in the Iron Man movie. Yeah, it sucks that they didn't follow the comics to the bone, but the change is pretty insignificant.
Now what really angers me is Nick Fury. Making Fury black? Ok, that's fine. Turning him into (literally) Samuel L. Jackson with an eyepatch? Dumb. At least TRY to make him as badass as 616 Fury.
because this political correct bullshit has gone too far.
it's especially idiotic seeing such a thing in movies set back in medieval times.
A black Heimdal is stupid. And yes it goes both ways...if we were to have a movie about anciant japan or south africa I wouldn't expect a caucasian main character and if there was one it would be idiotic.
If anything, Kenneth Branagh is being the opposite of politically correct, he just doesn't care about what other people think and casts with zero discrimination.
Australian Thor is even stuppiderr. This whole movie sucks. Thor is going to ride a Kangaroo and play a Didgeridoo and Heimdall is going to eat KFC on the Rainbow Bridge. Don't get me started on the Destroyer armor... I hear it was made in Japan! I suppose we will Sumo Wrestle and turn Super Saiyan. I am glad I hate Thor and Marvel. Go Green Lantern movie, woo!
" Australian Thor is even stuppiderr. This whole movie sucks. Thor is going to ride a Kangaroo and play a Didgeridoo and Heimdall is going to eat KFC on the Rainbow Bridge. Don't get me started on the Destroyer armor... I hear it was made in Japan! I suppose we will Sumo Wrestle and turn Super Saiyan. I am glad I hate Thor and Marvel. Go Green Lantern movie, woo! "
" Australian Thor is even stuppiderr. This whole movie sucks. Thor is going to ride a Kangaroo and play a Didgeridoo and Heimdall is going to eat KFC on the Rainbow Bridge. Don't get me started on the Destroyer armor... I hear it was made in Japan! I suppose we will Sumo Wrestle and turn Super Saiyan. I am glad I hate Thor and Marvel. Go Green Lantern movie, woo! "
black panther is an awesome character.....not his fault that marvel didnt give him great powers like other xmen, hulk or thor characters, but for low level hes an awesome character that can beat most people......hell i think its cool that he locked the silver surfer in a man handle position which was pretty dope azz....
Even better lets Cosplay! I am already eating chicken right now, uh... chicken noodles. I call Heimdall. Now which of you looks more like Natalie Portman or Hannibal Lector guy? 0_o
" @~The Wanderer~ :@lazystudent: Even better lets Cosplay! I am already eating chicken right now, uh... chicken noodles. I call Heimdall. Now which of you looks more like Natalie Portman or Hannibal Lector guy? 0_o "
Hogun really is asian in the comics. Beta Ray Bill is a friggin' alien.
Elba plays Heimdall, who is one of my fave characters, is being played by a black dude, whoopedeefreakindoo. I think it's an interesting casting choice.
" @Taliax: First of all, Persian means Iraqi. Find me an Iraqi that looks like the Prince of Persia. Then you'd have a point. Angelina Jolie was terrible in Wanted. Every black person I've met will agree, Black Panther is simply the cure all for black inclusion. "
Actually it's Iran that used to be Persia not Iraq, and if I'm not mistaken the word Iran actually means land of the ayrans. "
as far as I know the ancient Persians where an Indo-Aryan race and looked rather greek like. "
sorry for the delay, my internet connection dropped nice and low. pay for high-speed, get dial-up speed. thus is my life.
@MysterioMaximus said:
Well firstly, I didn’t mean it’s hard to follow in the sense of content, but rather that it’s actually just legitimately physically difficult to read and follow (and reply to) with all the separations and tampered with quotes. No offense.
couldn't be helped. you posed several statements and rebuttals in single sentences. i broke them down to answer them individually and directly. so none taken. expect it to be phrased the same way, i'm going to have to ask you to suffer.
Secondly, I cannot help but feel you’re living in one delusion of grandeur.
I'm afraid thats just another thing your feeling.
My examples weren’t so much reflections of myself,
Didnt think they were persay, yourself and a small group though. And you were referring to my statement in a fashion that you were saying your own personal opinions in parts, so i addressed them as that.
so much as common complaints associated with Dark Knights Joker not being prima-white,
I have seriously never seen that one until right at your post.
Topher Grace not being Brock build, and Green Goblin not resembling much of any Goblin I’m familiar with.
I know of them, but there was obviously a reason for it. if you really look at comic book films so many details are in fact not right from the comics its ridiculous. also the majority of the people that registered these opinions also complain about the original versions they should be just like anyways. its sort of a weak point, and its off base but ill get to that.
I cannot help but feel you’re living under a rock if you think that I would be the only one perturbed by these departures, nor did I say that I specifically was anyway.
neither did i so im not. i referred to you as part of a group, not the whole. i said that specifically and highlighted it so you would've be confused.
For my part, the only one that actually bothered me, though I personally would always rather the more comic accurate, was Green Goblin, nor am I picking on the suit so much as just stating a simple truth. The thing indeed resembles a power ranger.
that was the way you felt. likewise the dewsign went over well with the audience share. it was also done for reasons. ill get to that as well
Comic book anal retentiveness isn’t MysterioMaximus exclusive; doubtful I’m even one of the worst.
see above
We’re infamous for it, so much so that standup comic Patton Oswald even wrote an entire rant on the topic. It’s just kind of hard for me to believe that you’ve not seen the regular and inevitable nitpicking from many upon many fans of comic books.
Patton Oswald, sorry but he doesnt really matter in the grand scheme of things. i mean it. so much for his rant. Seinfeld rants about things too. and of course ive seen it, i referred to it in every post. but its also not the exclusive feeling either. this site and every thread on it is a very testament to the varied difference of opinion within comic fans, and i mean its varied. im sure youve seen that. also means that the opinion your subscribing to doesnt cast everyone's vote. in fact theres a good reason its the most popular opinion. its the same as the opinions that mudsling a celebrity. the same as the drunk obnoxious guy (just a comparison, dont take it too literally) thats yelling. is the one that people pay the most attention to because its shocking, negative and loud. the city likes its sunshine, but it loves its dirt even more.
And the ultimate point to my replies to you is simple: To some people aesthetics have value. By no means would I consider them above story, but I do think that visual accuracy has some part to play and in a series like Thor,
i heard that opinion, and presented my reason why it wasnt right, but was actually moot. you quoted me and said " nay " but didnt provide why it was " nay " you just iterated this same point.
ethnicity matters more than it has ever in a comic book adaptation.
because? your also going to have to link actual proof of this one BTW. sorry to call it out.you actually dodged this by using examples like Venom, who isnt a change from his ethnicity in the comics.
If you disagree, to each their own. By no means will something like Heimdall being black have much (or really any) sway over how I feel when I walk out of the theater.
well that kind of cancels out the whole thing then?
As for the other guy, my apologies to never remembering his name, he doesn’t really matter. I’m just trying to point out that he slightly derailed the topic. That is all.
who? avi? i dont agree there either. first off topics are always free flowing here. they dont need to nor will meet how you want them regimented. thats freedom of speech. and i thought (?) made interesting points. the thing is (?) made a contrary opinion and put (?)self under fire. that actually took some balls. still and again that has nothing to do with me. i can point out the fact that that person is okay with change in movies when theyre own favorite character was done completely different on film. that is also saying something. avi felt offended by the nature of the thread, and especially alot of the underlying points. that is that users right to post what they think, regardless of format.
--- now for the part im getting to. first off, movies are never the same as their comic counterparts. im sure youve noticed. but do you know why? because its impossible for them to be. 1. most of these comics took place in stories over several years, in several books. and i mean a long time. it would literally be impossible to fit them into a movie. notice how movies like Watchmen and Sin City were almost spot on (i say almost, and yes, some fans threw tizzes about the differences even there. that should tell you something). they only had a few books. and they never changed in anyway themselves... 2. most comics and characters have changed and evolved majorly over time. the styles keep changing, the characterization, the costumes, the powers, the characters themselves. so its pretty in passe to even claim what a character is supposed to be exactly like you know? your version of preference for the character im sure differs from another fans. 3. theyre movies. duh! its an entirely different medium then a comic. if it looked and sounded (whereas it would be determined in everyones head) just like a comic, it would be a comic, and not a movie. thats pretty self-explanatory 4. the money. want to know why Green Goblin looked the way he did? because they pitched the original costume at the theater and they pissed themselves laughing. they knew theyre was no way anyone was going to see that as cool, nor believable. maybe in a low-budget B movie, but not this. in fact im sure youve seen Ross's redesign. that was the next stage. but the overall team involved just didnt like it/ and couldnt make it actually work on film. 5. continuing from that, alot of stuff in comics does not work in real life, physically. they can try and try and it just doesnt work. definatly not with the resources at hand which, some may believe otherwise, studios are limited in. in fact most super hero movies have not been most studios priority. 6. the idea has to sell to not only the studio, but to the masses as well. if it doesnt do that, it doesnt get financed and it doesnt get greenlit. thats just the deal and there is no compromise, and no love for comic fans nostalgia. it indeed has to be something that demographically is tested and considered a safe bet that it will make its money back, in fact comics themselves, and any product, because ultimately thats what art is when its for sale has to do this. theyre number one legal responsibility is to their stockholders and nothing else. and do you know how many people not only have to see a movie, but buy the DVD as well before a movie pays for its own budget, and before a studio makes a profit? take that into account then the fact that no one wants to work for peanuts either. you see, it has to be this way. its not a question of should. its either this, or nothing. we get no superhero movie except for the wonderful low-budget Roger Corman Fantastic 4 movie 7. this is the big one, and i say this often and everyone dodges this one, but this is fact. the majority of the viewing audience, expected, needed, and will, worldwide, do not read comics. they do not know the history of these characters. they also do not care about it either, made obvious by the fact that they didnt bother with comics in the first place because that, yes, looked stupid and childish to them. this sint everyone of course. but it is the significant percent of the viewing audience. the part that matters. the part that pays that aforementioned bill. so, while trying to make this like the comic on one hand, it needs to be something those people want to see. taking one outside of oneself, you can pretty logical look over any issue and say to yourself " would someone who has never even heard of this, and not only doesnt read comics, but doesnt have any interest in even action cartoons want to see this? would my mother? " because these are the type of things that matter, and matter in that way that if theyre not there, the movie does one of two things. it doesnt happen, which is less likely because the studio nows what theyre doing and why, and will already have augmented the comic to fit what they need to have to make a film, or two, it flops hard. know what happens if we make movies just like their comic counterparts? especially the early silly, 4 color inked, extremely racists ones? they crash and burn and then Hollywood says " You know what, these superheros are a lost cause, dump them and lets go back to making Spaghetti Westerns for awhile so we can recover from the financial disaster this just caused us."
want one additional movies are different from comics, especially in Marvels case? because all of their properties and the stories and things related to the characters, are tied up in different movie companies. each have to not only ask permission each and every time they use something, they have to pay them a sum. this is why it was Beta Ray Bill in the Planet Hulk animated, something which alot of people where pissed about. Silver Surfer was working for Fox, he couldnt come play in Lionsgates sandbox. This factors in to live action films being changed as of course, most superheros stories are intertwined, and its one of the largest parts of the comic-verses continuity.
all that outside what was already said, its a different continuity. its a reboot of the comic. its Ultimates. its streamlined and made into something more modern for everyone, because while the 40's comics worked, they worked in the 40's and for the small group that read them, which like this or not, were predominantly children. that stuff worked then and for that, but it doesnt now. Stan Lee can vow for this as he changed his name just because of the fact that even that was looked that down upon at the time. dont you notice how comics...now, are completely different versions than they were? they evolved. in fact alot of the current standards made are in fact to open them up for a huge surgance of new readers coming in after seeing the movies and meeting the characters for the first time. look at the costume designs on the Grant Morrison run of X-men for example mirroring the movie ones. likewise, its not the 40's and 50's, so the movies need to be modernized as well. mathematically, and including the above factors and many more, it just wont work.
now to get to this " token black person" thing now, lets cut the fat out here and get to the real issue. race. it is. do you want to know how i can say that? here, i'll show you. this is Heimdall....
notice a difference? yeah, pretty much everything about him. in fact his physical features are even different. n fact his hair color even changed tone. so much for that then.
so were are the examples where being black in a white role didnt work. well, we have Wilson Fisk, aka Kingpin, and Catwoman. some fans didnt like this. but heres some things ive noticed. first off Catwoman.
this is Eartha Kitt. this went over well, no lie
K. So why was Hale berry Catwoman. Token black person? But she was the star of the film, so that doesnt add up? Because WB wanted to make a movie about a black Catwoman? Nope. Because Hale Berry showed dedication to the role, and because audiences at the time wanted to pay to see her on film. Thats why. But, this one nosedived right? Ive heard tow reasons for this. One, because Catwoman isnt black. Two, because the story was wrong. I hope youve guessed why that assessment is wrong? Its because the majority of the people that are going to pay to see the movie dont care about the comics, they dont read them, and they dont care what color Catwomans skin is, see Eartha Kitt. the movie bombed because it was poorly done, and it wasnt interesting. They tried to get a solo Catwoman film off the ground ever since Pfeiffer , but after enough research they found that not enough, key word, people were interested. So they kept it on the drawing table, and finally got it greenlit, bit it failed, because even though Catwoman has alot of fans, this movie wasnt going to work.
Now to the less infamous character. Kingpin. Why was Kingpin black. Well, one of the reasons was because it is actually more realistic for the Kingpin of crime in Hells Kitchen New York to be a black man. Right? Nope. Because the movie needed o appeal to an African-Amercian demographic? Nope. I read the interviews on this when it was in production. The film studio went out of their way to not give Michael Clarke Duncan this role. he didnt fit the images they already had figured out for the white character. but alot of the crew of the film went to bat heavily to make sure it was him, and theyre sole reason was because they liked the guy so much. they loved hanging out with him, which i should note yet another difference in the way a movie is made then a comic, and an important factor in determining how it comes out. this is a team of coworkers on a job site. thats what it is. its important to have people who get along, and can work with each other and act off each other. otherwise the film will fall apart. otherwise actors will leave before its up. so theres the big lack of proof that any of this actually matters, nor makes a real difference. because it never really has. aside from the point i already made, which well, no real reason given why thats wrong either. cant really see one single problem with Heimdall being a brother, in fact i will bet you know after the movie comes out, the larger gripes from some of the comic book readers will be entirely different changes than this one. and hey, its just Heimdall. imagine the outrage if it were Thor. but would that be wrong? No, but it wouldnt sell because society is still not open minded enough nor advanced to remove themselves from the trivial. Maybe someday... It really only is a matter of perception, and that is a fact that cant be ruled out of the equation. To me being bothered by this stuff is as bad as when a character that wasnt stated to be turns out to be LGBT. bottom line is though, comic fans can complain about this until there blue in the face, but films will never match long running comics because its actually impossible, so theyre wasting theyre time doing so over it. complain if the movie is bad, or the acting sucks, because thats actually something that could have been fixed. its a business, and while its not one hundred percent about money, it is about money and has to be about it first, because it takes money to make it in the first place, otherwise, it doesnt even exist. and you already know this, and so do I, so why even sweat it?
I apologize for digging in your older statements my friend, but this was such a wonderful post. I know it's old but I could not agree with you more man, great job, I know you don't require my praises but I must give them anyway!
So if you know me and you prolly don't you know I'm a big Thor fan. So I'm on the IMDB and I was checking out the casting for the new movie. Anthony Hopkins as Odin, which is cool but I couldn't help but notice that Heimdall doesn't really look much like Heimdall. Because he's black. Before you all go nuts and talk like I'm some kind of racist hear what I gotta say. I'm not racist, there's plenty of black, hispanic, asian, alien, artificial intelligent characters in comics and I think that's great. My problem lies in the fact that, especially in movies, they throw in the "token minority" when it doesn't even fit. The Norse were white people. No big deal they were from Europe. So their Gods looked like they did. Big f'n deal. Why change that just because you "want to appeal to a bigger market" or some such thing. Maybe this guys a good actor and he'll portray the character well or whatever you never know I'm just saying. While I'm on the subject why is it that some writers feel it so important to throw in a black person that they come up with this lame character who's sole concept is they're "the Black Guy". I know black people and I gotta say, to them, it's not that big of a deal. Believe it or not they're complex individuals just like everyone else with they're own lives and opinions and they don't fit this cookie cutter image that they always get in the media. It's crap. I hate it. Let's hope for something different for Heimdall, or I'll kill whoever did their casting and wear their skin to cast the sequel.
Yes I agree with this as well. The same was done with the Avatar last airbender, where they casted whites as the leads and an indian. It made no sense as it wouldn't make to have a black Norse god/goddess. However, I don't understand what black panther has to do with any of this, please explain??
This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:
Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along
with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely
increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.
Comment and Save
Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other
Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll
send you an email once approved.
Log in to comment