The Thor Movie and why the Black Panther sucks.

  • 104 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Posted by DeathinFire (281 posts) - - Show Bio

So if you know me and you prolly don't you know I'm a big Thor fan.  So I'm on the IMDB and I was checking out the casting for the new movie.  Anthony Hopkins as Odin, which is cool but I couldn't help but notice that Heimdall doesn't really look much like Heimdall.  Because he's black.  Before you all go nuts and talk like I'm some kind of racist hear what I gotta say.  I'm not racist, there's plenty of black, hispanic, asian, alien, artificial intelligent characters in comics and I think that's great.  My problem lies in the fact that, especially in movies, they throw in the "token minority" when it doesn't even fit.  The Norse were white people.  No big deal they were from Europe.  So their Gods looked like they did.  Big f'n deal.  Why change that just because you "want to appeal to a bigger market" or some such thing.  Maybe this guys a good actor and he'll portray the character well or whatever you never know I'm just saying. 
 
While I'm on the subject why is it that some writers feel it so important to throw in a black person that they come up with this lame character who's sole concept is they're "the Black Guy".  I know black people and I gotta say, to them, it's not that big of a deal.  Believe it or not they're complex individuals just like everyone else with they're own lives and opinions and they don't fit this cookie cutter image that they always get in the media.  It's crap.  I hate it. 
  
Let's hope for something different for Heimdall, or I'll kill whoever did their casting and wear their skin to cast the sequel.

#1 Posted by They Killed Cap! (2243 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with the token role in movies...its annoying some people will take much offense to it. Race is made an issue when both sides and I do mean both sides of the arguments make it an issue. I think some people think race issues are dead and or dying and could legitamately be there, but I think often bring it up keeps it alive. Even if the bringing up is simply asking is race still an issue, well now it is because you just raised the question.
#2 Edited by OhTru (1583 posts) - - Show Bio

It doesn't bother me at all, Asgardians follow cycles of Birth, Death, Re-Birth, More Death and More Re-Birth so why wouldn't an Asgardian be reborn into someone else's body? Heck even Aliens like BRB can be worthy of Asgrad and Loki was even reborn into the body of a woman, a guy with a penis pops up in the body of someone with breasts and a vagina...really weird rebirths have been happening all the time. I don't see the issue with some guy being reborn as a black dude as long as the actor can pull off a good role.
In the modern critically acclaimed story by JMS the character Heimdall is reborn in the body of man called Ezra, he's a human living on the Gulf Coast and is a survivor of Katrina. The last time I checked the black population of America was quiet a significat percentage so Heimdall in the JMS story could have easily been a black dude. Another point is some of the Asgardian religion has now become a big fashion thing for modern NeoNazis, some of those boneheads even get themselves Odin prison tattoos.  If casting a black dude can keep idiots out of the movie theatres then I have no probelms with  Idris Elba playing a role in the movie.

#3 Posted by IrishX (2343 posts) - - Show Bio

I understand your point OP but did I miss the part where "the Black Panther sucks"?

#4 Posted by StrongestOneThereIs (6490 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's a dumb idea as well 
They were of a Caucasian culture
Why would one be black
There is an Asian as an Asgardian too 
 
@OhTru:
Good point
 
@They Killed Cap!:
Good point

#5 Posted by DeathinFire (281 posts) - - Show Bio
@OhTru: You know I didn't even think about the death/rebirth cycles.  It makes sense that way.  Sad because I'm pretty sure I read that arc you're talking about.  The one where Thor is the first to come back after Ragnarok and he has to awaken all the others or whatever?  I guess the main thing I care about is whether or not this guy has the chops to play Heimdall.  I can't say for sure because I don't think I've seen him in anything.  I'm not really upset that they have a black guy.  I'm upset I guess because Heimdall is changed.  I'm still a little angry they dropped the guy from True Blood but we'll see how this other guy turns out.  I may be wrong.   
 
Please God, just not another Daredevil or Ghost Rider.  I can't take another one of my favorites going down the toilet.
#6 Posted by StrongestOneThereIs (6490 posts) - - Show Bio
@DeathinFire said:
" @OhTru: You know I didn't even think about the death/rebirth cycles.  It makes sense that way.  Sad because I'm pretty sure I read that arc you're talking about.  The one where Thor is the first to come back after Ragnarok and he has to awaken all the others or whatever?  I guess the main thing I care about is whether or not this guy has the chops to play Heimdall.  I can't say for sure because I don't think I've seen him in anything.  I'm not really upset that they have a black guy.  I'm upset I guess because Heimdall is changed.  I'm still a little angry they dropped the guy from True Blood but we'll see how this other guy turns out.  I may be wrong.    Please God, just not another Daredevil or Ghost Rider.  I can't take another one of my favorites going down the toilet. "
With the actors they have planned for it
i can't see it being bad
#7 Posted by Taliax (493 posts) - - Show Bio

I never ever see these threads when a white actor plays a minorities role in a film? Where is the outrage about Prince of Persia not being Persian, Angelina Jolie playing the African American role in Wanted, or Ben Kingsly in Gandhi, don't get me started on Dragonball, the new Tekken movie, Egyptians and numerous others. Seems to me that the OP is more bothered by it than the supposed PC crowd. 
 
Also how do you know how all black people feel? Where you elected by them?

#8 Posted by Vathers (87 posts) - - Show Bio
@Taliax: 
 
First of all, Persian means Iraqi.  Find me an Iraqi that looks like the Prince of Persia.  Then you'd have a point.  Angelina Jolie was terrible in Wanted.  Every black person I've met will agree, Black Panther is simply the cure all for black inclusion. 
#9 Edited by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm as liberal as they come...except when it comes to the world of political correctness. It’s just a world of absurd rules we have to now adhere to to prevent wounding their girlish over-sensitivities. I don't care how much we're "not allowed" to say it, I'll never stop saying retarded. Not to mention the "nay-sayers" don't even seem to understand the actual meaning of the word. The Norse were Caucasian…it’s not racist to not have someone of darker skin, it’s called being period accurate. Big whoop! But from a film studio standing point, this isn’t art, but business. They’re in the game to make a profit and they’re willing to exploit and sell out the artistry as much as possible to get it. So casting an African American in the role means, to them, more demographic appeal, ergo more seats filled, more tickets bought, more green in their pocketbooks. It’s all become one greedy-induced, capitalistic, money game, unfortunately.       

#10 Posted by avwhite (124 posts) - - Show Bio
Maybe he was just the best actor they found. Maybe they just decided that, for mythological deities that don't really exist, it doesn't matter. Maybe they just want to level the playing field and give some needy black actor a chance or exposure. Maybe some people don't see race...Just saying these things are possible. I would be worry whether he does a good job as an actor before I ever realized the color of his skin. The fact that this was your primary reaction is alarming.
 
This is not a historical picture, it's based on a very fictional comic book who very loosely bases their mythology on other mythology. The Thor from Norse mythology never transforms into a disabled human, Asgard is never set in the middle of America either. Thor never has a red haired clone or meets an alien with same abilities as him that wields a magic axe. This is not real life there is a lot room for leeway. And lets be honest there aren't very many African American characters in Thor's canon, and as an African American who reads Thor comics I've felt alienated. So while you might seem off put by it, I embrace it because it's finally a step to include a community that has been for so long alienated from things as basic as FANTASY films. 
 
Also I see you didn't mention Natalie Portman, an Israeli born Jewish actress, She's not from Europe, in fact most of the actors in the film are not of Nordic decent. So if your argument is about the character's ethnicties not matching the ethnicities of the actors portraying them, you've already failed because not a single one of them is Scandinavian. 
 
It's also important to mention that the African American population is not large enough to have an effect on how successful this movie is so its illogical to think that they would try to use an African American actor as a ploy to garner more money. Take avatar for instance, there is a single black character in the film and he is an unknown playing a blue alien, so no one knew he was black. Lord of the Rings has no black characters. Harry Potter even...other then extras in the background. And these are some of the most successful films of all time. I can go on and on, but in all honesty there is NO GOOD reason to exclude characters from a fantasy film that is not based on real life or history. You would have a point other wise but for this...no. 
 
One  last thing, a history lesson of sorts,...there were black people all over Europe since classical Greece. Ever heard of the Moors. In fact there are sotries about barbarians and vikings who had "ebony skin". 
 
I'm not trying to be rude or inflammatory. But this has offended me.
#11 Edited by avwhite (124 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vathers said:

" @Taliax:   First of all, Persian means Iraqi.  Find me an Iraqi that looks like the Prince of Persia.  Then you'd have a point.  Angelina Jolie was terrible in Wanted.  Every black person I've met will agree, Black Panther is simply the cure all for black inclusion.  "

You are incorrect about Persians.
 
First of  all in modern terms Persia is Iran NOT Iraq. Contrary to popular belief they are no the same country.

Second of all, In ancient times the Persian Kingdom was made up of parts of North Africa, Parts of Asia (including the Middle East and Asia Minor) and parts of Europe. Macedonia anyone? You know that Kingdom in Greece that Alexander the Great was from? The Prince of Persia is set in ancient times in this Kingdom, not the modern Iran, OR Iraq. 
 
Lastly whether Angelina was terrible in the movie or not is irrelevent. The point the poster made was quite clear. Where was the thread about her portraying a character of another race? How come no one was upset with that? Furthermore that was a film based on a true historical story with real people. And she got nominated for an Academy Award for best actress so apparently someone thought it was good (although I don't feel she deserved a nomination because she's an awful actress).
#12 Edited by avwhite (124 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vathers said:

" @avwhite:   Look I don't give a shit about the history lesson.  All I know is I served in the war in Iraq twice, and Afghanistan once.  I've seen plenty of the locals and I never met one who had the muscular definition the Prince had.  Who cares, none of them look even remotely close to the resemblance Jake Gyllenhal has an actor.  And he even sounds like the Prince.    Many people were upset by Angelina being in the movie, including TMZ.  Famous names get nominated in bad films.  Happens all the time. "

IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN are not PERSIA. The Persia that the game is based on is ANCIENT PERSIA, it encompassed parts of Africa, Europe and Asia. So you going to Iraq has S**T to do with what ANCIENT PERSIANS looked like. If you actually did care about the history lesson and took the time to read, you would have realized how completely ignorant you sound. It's obvious you don't care about history, because you just completely discounted it and made an ass out of your self.  You don't know what you're talking about. End of discussion.
#13 Posted by Vathers (87 posts) - - Show Bio
@avwhite: 
 
Yeah.  For you it is.
#14 Edited by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio

...I think you're both jokes. So shut up! No one cares. And just so you know, you're not allowed to swear around these parts. So edit your post or else you'll probably be banned.

#15 Posted by avwhite (124 posts) - - Show Bio
Yeah you're a joke too. Just not a very funny one. But thanks for the tip.
#16 Edited by CATMANEXE (17052 posts) - - Show Bio

lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  are not descended from any human race
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,  another world, or
dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect. 
In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the 
view of the believer.
so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window. 
there is no more of an "accuracy" to be followed there than there is in what
color a unicorn is supposed to be. lol.
 
the only thing that leaves now, is the notion that there is a " man of color "
in the film, because Hollywood is pandering to demographic groups.
well what do you think they were doing in the first place in the comics
when they made everyone white, so that much cancels itself out doesnt it?!

#17 Edited by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio
@avwhite said:

"Yeah you're a joke too. Just not a very funny one. But thanks for the tip. "

Well doesn't the kid who seems to think himself some premature Joseph Campbell have a mouth? Good for you! You sure showed me. I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now. Maybe if you make your writing a little more bold, people will actually pay attention to what you have to say. There's another tip I thought you could use.
#18 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@Taliax said:
" I never ever see these threads when a white actor plays a minorities role in a film? Where is the outrage about Prince of Persia not being Persian, Angelina Jolie playing the African American role in Wanted, or Ben Kingsly in Gandhi, don't get me started on Dragonball, the new Tekken movie, Egyptians and numerous others. Seems to me that the OP is more bothered by it than the supposed PC crowd.   Also how do you know how all black people feel? Where you elected by them? "
Actually Ben Kingsley is Indian, his real name is Krishna.  Also Persians are technically white, so the prince being white is irrelevant.  The guy in the Tekken movie is half Asian, so close enough.     There were a ton of people that complained about Dragonball Z and Wanted, maybe not on the vine but they're out there.
 
Who cares if Heimdall is being played by a black guy.  I just want a good actor in the role that can pull off the character. Maybe this guy auditioned and they gave it too him just because he was that good, who knows.  Could be like Kingpin though where this guy was a good actor and had the stature they were looking for. I mean can you name a white guy that could have pulled off the Kingpin?
 
Plus Heimdall is a secondary character, so whats the big deal?
#19 Edited by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATMANEXE said:

"lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  are not descended from any human race
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,  another world, or dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect.  In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the  view of the believer. so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window.  

I'm going to cry nay! Isn't the fact that comic book Heimdall just isn't black argument enough? This whole issue has been overcomplicated. I don’t think anyone goes to Marvel Comics expecting an accurate representation of Nordic Anglo-Saxon mythology, so what’s the purpose of the White Queen obsessived fan boys longwinded classroom rant? It would seem he’s merely stroking the ego of a seemingly self-crowned premature Joseph Campbell. No one is discussing the Marvel incarnations accuracy to the literal myth, that has little relevance here, we’re talking film to comic authenticity. That’s all this dilutes to - Heimdall is not of dark skin.   

#20 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@avwhite said:

 
Lastly whether Angelina was terrible in the movie or not is irrelevent. The point the poster made was quite clear. Where was the thread about her portraying a character of another race? How come no one was upset with that? Furthermore that was a
film based on a true historical story with real people. And she got nominated for an Academy Award for best actress so apparently someone thought it was good (although I don't feel she deserved a nomination because she's an awful actress). "
Am I reading this right? Are you really trying to say that Wanted was based on true historical story with real people? lol
#21 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@MysterioMaximus said:
" @CATMANEXE said:

"lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  are not descended from any human race
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,  another world, or dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect.  In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the  view of the believer. so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window.  

I'm going to cry nay! Isn't the fact that comic book Heimdall just isn't black argument enough? This whole issue has been overcomplicated. I don’t think anyone goes to Marvel Comics expecting an accurate representation of Nordic Anglo-Saxon mythology, so what’s the purpose of the White Queen obsessived fan boys longwinded classroom rant? It would seem he’s merely stroking the ego of a seemingly self-crowned premature Joseph Campbell. No one is discussing the Marvel incarnations accuracy to the literal myth, that has little relevance here, we’re talking film to comic authenticity. That’s all this dilutes to - Heimdall is not of dark skin.   

"
It's pretty well established that Marvel movies are not the same continuity as the comics,  So as far as the movie universe goes, Heimdall is of dark skin.
#22 Posted by CATMANEXE (17052 posts) - - Show Bio
@MysterioMaximus said:

" @CATMANEXE said:

"lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  are not descended from any human race
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,  another world, or dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect.  In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the  view of the believer. so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window.  

I'm going to cry nay! Isn't the fact that comic book Heimdall just isn't black argument enough? This whole issue has been overcomplicated. 

"
you forgot the second half of my post, if not to just adress the first actually
 
@CATMANEXE said:

the only thing that leaves now, is the notion that there is a " man of color " in the film, because Hollywood is pandering to demographic groups. well what do you think they were doing in the first place in the comics when they made everyone white, so that much cancels itself out doesnt it?! "

 @MysterioMaximus said: 

I don’t think anyone goes to Marvel Comics expecting an accurate representation of Nordic Anglo-Saxon mythology,


 
they dont even have that, so you missed my fairly simply laid out point? they dont have a race. its established however and
whenever it can be by the imagination of the believer. 
 
@MysterioMaximus said:


I don’t think anyone goes to Marvel Comics expecting an accurate representation of Nordic Anglo-Saxon mythology, so what’s the purpose of the White Queen obsessive’s longwinded classroom rant? It would seem he’s merely stroking the ego of a seemingly self-crowned premature Joseph Campbell?  

"
what does my own post have to do with supporting avwhites opinions , much less avwhite. do i really care about this?   
is this really fact, or the way you feel about something irrelevant?
 
@MysterioMaximus said:


No one is discussing the Marvel incarnations accuracy to the literal myth, that has little relevance here, we’re talking film to comic authenticity. That’s all this dilutes to.    

"
actually many are talking about both. as for the problem with that see my post. 
#23 Posted by avwhite (124 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin: @Green Skin said:
" @avwhite said:

 
Lastly whether Angelina was terrible in the movie or not is irrelevent. The point the poster made was quite clear. Where was the thread about her portraying a character of another race? How come no one was upset with that? Furthermore that was a
film based on a true historical story with real people. And she got nominated for an Academy Award for best actress so apparently someone thought it was good (although I don't feel she deserved a nomination because she's an awful actress). "
Am I reading this right? Are you really trying to say that Wanted was based on true historical story with real people? lol "
Oh, actually that was a mistake on my part. I confused wanted with the other film she starred in called "A Mighty Heart" where Angelina played a character "outside" her race. It came out around the same time. My bad. I'll admit to my mistakes.
#24 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@avwhite said:
" @Green Skin: @Green Skin said:
" @avwhite said:

 
Lastly whether Angelina was terrible in the movie or not is irrelevent. The point the poster made was quite clear. Where was the thread about her portraying a character of another race? How come no one was upset with that? Furthermore that was a
film based on a true historical story with real people. And she got nominated for an Academy Award for best actress so apparently someone thought it was good (although I don't feel she deserved a nomination because she's an awful actress). "
Am I reading this right? Are you really trying to say that Wanted was based on true historical story with real people? lol "
Oh, actually that was a mistake on my part. I confused wanted with the other film she starred in called "A Mighty Heart" where Angelina played a character "outside" her race. It came out around the same time. My bad. I'll admit to my mistakes. "
ok cool.  kinda figured that's what you were talking about.
#25 Posted by avwhite (124 posts) - - Show Bio
@MysterioMaximus said:
" @avwhite said:

"Yeah you're a joke too. Just not a very funny one. But thanks for the tip. "

Well doesn't the kid who seems to think himself some premature Joseph Campbell have a mouth? Good for you! You sure showed me. I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now. Maybe if you make your writing a little more bold, people will actually pay attention to what you have to say. There's another tip I thought you could use. "
I really don't give a crap what you do. I don't know you. Oh yeah, failed come back.
#26 Posted by avwhite (124 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin: yeah, I'm sorry about that.
#27 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@avwhite said:
" @Green Skin: yeah, I'm sorry about that. "
lol, no biggie
#28 Posted by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:
" @CATMANEXE said:

"lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  are not descended from any human race, 
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,  another world, or dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect.  In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the  view of the believer. so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window.  

I'm going to cry nay! Isn't the fact that comic book Heimdall just isn't black argument enough? This whole issue has been overcomplicated. I don’t think anyone goes to Marvel Comics expecting an accurate representation of Nordic Anglo-Saxon mythology, so what’s the purpose of the White Queen obsessived fan boys longwinded classroom rant? It would seem he’s merely stroking the ego of a seemingly self-crowned premature Joseph Campbell. No one is discussing the Marvel incarnations accuracy to the literal myth, that has little relevance here, we’re talking film to comic authenticity. That’s all this dilutes to - Heimdall is not of dark skin.   

"
It's pretty well established that Marvel movies are not the same continuity as the comics,  So as far as the movie universe goes, Heimdall is of dark skin. "
 But by that logic, Thor could be dark skinned and you wouldn't have an issue with it. I don't think that comment holds water whatsoever.

@CATMANEXE said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:

" @CATMANEXE said:

"lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  are not descended from any human race
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,  another world, or dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect.  In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the  view of the believer. so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window.  

I'm going to cry nay! Isn't the fact that comic book Heimdall just isn't black argument enough? This whole issue has been overcomplicated. 

"
you forgot the second half of my post, if not to just adress the first actually
 
@CATMANEXE said:

the only thing that leaves now, is the notion that there is a " man of color " in the film, because Hollywood is pandering to demographic groups. well what do you think they were doing in the first place in the comics when they made everyone white, so that much cancels itself out doesnt it?! "

 @MysterioMaximus said: 

I don’t think anyone goes to Marvel Comics expecting an accurate representation of Nordic Anglo-Saxon mythology,


 
they dont even have that, so you missed my fairly simply laid out point? they dont have a race. its established however and
whenever it can be by the imagination of the believer. 
 
@MysterioMaximus said:


I don’t think anyone goes to Marvel Comics expecting an accurate representation of Nordic Anglo-Saxon mythology, so what’s the purpose of the White Queen obsessive’s longwinded classroom rant? It would seem he’s merely stroking the ego of a seemingly self-crowned premature Joseph Campbell?  

"
what does my own post have to do with supporting avwhites opinions , much less avwhite. do i really care about this?   
is this really fact, or the way you feel about something irrelevant?
 
@MysterioMaximus said:


No one is discussing the Marvel incarnations accuracy to the literal myth, that has little relevance here, we’re talking film to comic authenticity. That’s all this dilutes to.    

"
actually many are talking about both. as for the problem with that see my post.  "

I'm not following pretty much any of this. You broke it all up and convoluted to the point of essentially loosing me. At the end of the day, what this thread is about, ultimately, is that the Marvel Comic character is not how they’re portraying him on screen from a visual standing point. This is why I brought up Emma freaks comments, they're out of context. The real mythology has nothing to do with the original post. You’re living in a world where people complain when clowns aren’t bearing bleached white skin, symbiotic space goop doesn’t bond with bodybuilders and goblins more so resemble Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. We’re an anal-retentive and notoriously nitpicky fan base that lives amongst a Hollywood mass marketing machine that churns out its fair share of glorified toy commercials. When departures happen (no matter the detail) it can raise concerns.

#29 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@MysterioMaximus said:
" @Green Skin said:

 But by that logic, Thor could be dark skinned and you wouldn't have an issue with it. I don't think that comment holds water whatsoever.


I wouldn't have an issue with it, if they wanna have a black thor, go for it.  I don't  get hung up on race,  I'm more concerned about an entertaining movie.  There, water held.
#30 Posted by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio
@avwhite said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:
" @avwhite said:

"Yeah you're a joke too. Just not a very funny one. But thanks for the tip. "

Well doesn't the kid who seems to think himself some premature Joseph Campbell have a mouth? Good for you! You sure showed me. I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now. Maybe if you make your writing a little more bold, people will actually pay attention to what you have to say. There's another tip I thought you could use. "
I really don't give a crap what you do. I don't know you. Oh yeah, failed come back. "

...failed sarcasm detector, Joe. I’m noticing some redundancy with you. You seem to enjoy announcing victories you claim to have, yet no one else seems to notice, and take pleasure hiding behind trampy fictional blondes. Mommy must be proud!

#31 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

Beside, Volstag seems to more out of place than Heimdall as far as casting goes.I'm surprised people don't complain about that.

#32 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@MysterioMaximus said:
" @avwhite said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:
" @avwhite said:

"Yeah you're a joke too. Just not a very funny one. But thanks for the tip. "

Well doesn't the kid who seems to think himself some premature Joseph Campbell have a mouth? Good for you! You sure showed me. I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now. Maybe if you make your writing a little more bold, people will actually pay attention to what you have to say. There's another tip I thought you could use. "
I really don't give a crap what you do. I don't know you. Oh yeah, failed come back. "

...failed sarcasm detector, Joe. I’m noticing some redundancy with you. You seem to enjoy announcing victories you claim to have, yet no one else seems to notice, and take pleasure hiding behind trampy fictional blondes. Mommy must be proud!

"
You're trying to rip on him for having an avatar?   Dude everyone uses avatars, yourself included.  don't be that guy.
#33 Posted by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:
" @Green Skin said:

 But by that logic, Thor could be dark skinned and you wouldn't have an issue with it. I don't think that comment holds water whatsoever.


I wouldn't have an issue with it, if they wanna have a black thor, go for it.  I don't  get hung up on race,  I'm more concerned about an entertaining movie.  There, water held. "

With all due respect, friend, your water’s held about as well as a Louisianan levee. I wasn’t talking about you personally so much as the community. You cannot aim to please everyone, but you rightfully should target a majority. Face fact, most people wouldn’t go for any Thor that’s not the spitting image of the comic incarnation. And I understand not being overly concerned with race, but I cannot understand this sort of mentality that seems to believe ethnicity is entirely trivial. I couldn’t disagree more. Race authenticity isn’t arbitrary in all cases. In fact, I’d argue that on a character like Marvel’s Thor, it plays a fairly pivotal role in the recognizable importance of the character. You wouldn’t have Wolverine without claws, Doc Ock without tentacles, why Thor without his golden mane? Physicality and comic-accurate and identifiable aesthetics do have a role to play; perhaps not top priority, but I think it’s naive to think otherwise.

#34 Posted by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:
" @avwhite said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:
" @avwhite said:

"Yeah you're a joke too. Just not a very funny one. But thanks for the tip. "

Well doesn't the kid who seems to think himself some premature Joseph Campbell have a mouth? Good for you! You sure showed me. I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now. Maybe if you make your writing a little more bold, people will actually pay attention to what you have to say. There's another tip I thought you could use. "
I really don't give a crap what you do. I don't know you. Oh yeah, failed come back. "

...failed sarcasm detector, Joe. I’m noticing some redundancy with you. You seem to enjoy announcing victories you claim to have, yet no one else seems to notice, and take pleasure hiding behind trampy fictional blondes. Mommy must be proud!

"
You're trying to rip on him for having an avatar?   Dude everyone uses avatars, yourself included.  don't be that guy. "
Absolutely not! I'm ripping on him for being a rather rude and egotistical "internet tough guy," one that can't even post a real-world photo whatsoever. What's it to you anyway?
#35 Posted by CATMANEXE (17052 posts) - - Show Bio
@MysterioMaximus said:
  "

I'm not following pretty much any of this. You broke it all up and convoluted to the point of essentially loosing me.

"
first part is true. second isnt. i wrote what i did in simple words. there really wasnt anything to read into nor figure out.
there was no master plan.
 

 At the end of the day, what this thread is about, ultimately, is that the Marvel Comic character is not how they’re portraying him on screen from a visual standing point.


 
wasnt what was being said since the beginning of the thread. maybe thats what your posts were about, but not the most of it. you didnt make the thread so you cant really even make this claim, you know? most of what was brought up here was race determined in the real wordl, ours, specifically of the believers of these mythological characters, and of that real world mythology from which the comic was dedicated to. hence my first post, again.
 

 This is why I brought up Emma freaks comments, they're out of context. 


 
 no you didnt. avwhite (just say it) posts have exactly nothing to do with mine. you commented that your currently engaged in a flamewar with avwhite. its irrelevant to the point i tried to make. thats between you two.
 

The real mythology has nothing to do with the original post. 

see above.
 

You’re living in a world where people complain when clowns aren’t bearing bleached white skin, 


 
no im not! lol. this how your hometown is?
 

symbiotic space goop doesn’t bond with bodybuilders and goblins more so resemble Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. 
 
im aware. but the point of that is. also whats the point of making fun of the film version of Green Goblin.
the majority well recieved the alteration?
 

I'm part an anal-retentive and notoriously nitpicky fan base that doesnt make up the whole

fixed.
 

that lives amongst a Hollywood mass marketing machine that churns out its fair share of glorified toy commercials. 

old news. what does this matter. you willingly buy its comcis and various products and pay to watch its shows right?
i guess Hollywood and big business arent the only guilty parties you know. they sell people what they ask for.
 

When departures happen (no matter the detail) it can raise concerns. 


 
well yes it can. so can anyhting. but theres really no point to that otherwise. alot of these people raise concerns...
over well anything at all, when in fact, there really is nothing to be concerned about.

 but so far what youve said, has failed to explain what is " nay " to the points i made. in fact your only point
actually ended up supporting my own statement. i like your style dude. ive read alot of your posts and theres alot of 
intelligence in them, without restrictions, so understand that is the reason i continue with this. but i dont
really see the fault in my post, nor the contradictions, though if there is one, im interested in seeing it.
 
this was my post, not avwhites which is whose post your actually debating against with your points.
i'll anotate it.

 lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
1. the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  
are not descended from any human race
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,   
another world, or
dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect.  

2. In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the 
view of the believer. (established fact by Marvel themselves)  
so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window.  

3. there is no more of an "accuracy" to be followed there than there is in what
color a unicorn is supposed to be. lol. (this applies to either Marvels or our
version of jythology. peoples perceptions define either. in real life, different groups
believed in these beings and more than likely saw different things. Marvel has established this 
as the same)

 
4. the only thing that leaves now, is the notion that there is a " man of color "
in the film, because Hollywood is pandering to demographic groups.
well what do you think they were doing in the first place in the comics
when they made everyone white, so that much cancels itself out doesnt it?!  
(again, big point here. one cant say Marvel making everyone white in Thor was
originally they way they wanted to go about it. not only were they catering to demographics 
themselves, but also to commands handed down from the CCA, which forbade them to make
point of ethnics other than white, and sexes other than male. and definatly no homo, not even
a hint. also notice even the skin tones were all the same exact ? limited ink colors man!
but the large part was they were in fact catering to politics and demographics in the first place 
when they made these characters, so both points really cancel the other one out. i need no better 
example that the fact that Black cat was originally made African-American, but the company couldnt
allow Spider-man (or chose not to) have a racially diverse potential love interest, much less main
villian. thus the original concept was used for Storm of the X-men instead. but if Black cat shows up
in a film, and she is black, and people say she isnt supposed to be, actually she is.)

#36 Posted by MysterioMaximus (931 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATMANEXE said:
" @MysterioMaximus said:
  "

I'm not following pretty much any of this. You broke it all up and convoluted to the point of essentially loosing me.

"
first part is true. second isnt. i wrote what i did in simple words. there really wasnt anything to read into nor figure out.
there was no master plan.
 

 At the end of the day, what this thread is about, ultimately, is that the Marvel Comic character is not how they’re portraying him on screen from a visual standing point.


 
wasnt what was being said since the beginning of the thread. maybe thats what your posts were about, but not the most of it. you didnt make the thread so you cant really even make this claim, you know? most of what was brought up here was race determined in the real wordl, ours, specifically of the believers of these mythological characters, and of that real world mythology from which the comic was dedicated to. hence my first post, again.
 

 This is why I brought up Emma freaks comments, they're out of context. 


 
 no you didnt. avwhite (just say it) posts have exactly nothing to do with mine. you commented that your currently engaged in a flamewar with avwhite. its irrelevant to the point i tried to make. thats between you two.
 

The real mythology has nothing to do with the original post. 

see above.
 

You’re living in a world where people complain when clowns aren’t bearing bleached white skin, 


 
no im not! lol. this how your hometown is?
 

symbiotic space goop doesn’t bond with bodybuilders and goblins more so resemble Mighty Morphing Power Rangers. 
 
im aware. but the point of that is. also whats the point of making fun of the film version of Green Goblin.
the majority well recieved the alteration?
 

I'm part an anal-retentive and notoriously nitpicky fan base that doesnt make up the whole

fixed.
 

that lives amongst a Hollywood mass marketing machine that churns out its fair share of glorified toy commercials. 

old news. what does this matter. you willingly buy its comcis and various products and pay to watch its shows right?
i guess Hollywood and big business arent the only guilty parties you know. they sell people what they ask for.
 

When departures happen (no matter the detail) it can raise concerns. 


 
well yes it can. so can anyhting. but theres really no point to that otherwise. alot of these people raise concerns...
over well anything at all, when in fact, there really is nothing to be concerned about.

 but so far what youve said, has failed to explain what is " nay " to the points i made. in fact your only point
actually ended up supporting my own statement. i like your style dude. ive read alot of your posts and theres alot of 
intelligence in them, without restrictions, so understand that is the reason i continue with this. but i dont
really see the fault in my post, nor the contradictions, though if there is one, im interested in seeing it.
 
this was my post, not avwhites which is whose post your actually debating against with your points.
i'll anotate it.

 lol. i got to say this whole entire thread thus far is an epic fail.
want to know why?
 
1. the Asgardians, the Marvel Comics ones,  
are not descended from any human race
theyre Asgardians and they are Gods from a magical land, as in,   
another world, or
dimension if you want, which also includes races of Dwarfs, Trolls, Demons, ect.  

2. In fact, the way they appear is actually defendant on the 
view of the believer. (established fact by Marvel themselves)  
so that throws the entire race argument and notion directly out of the window.  

3. there is no more of an "accuracy" to be followed there than there is in what
color a unicorn is supposed to be. lol. (this applies to either Marvels or our
version of jythology. peoples perceptions define either. in real life, different groups
believed in these beings and more than likely saw different things. Marvel has established this 
as the same)

 
4. the only thing that leaves now, is the notion that there is a " man of color "
in the film, because Hollywood is pandering to demographic groups.
well what do you think they were doing in the first place in the comics
when they made everyone white, so that much cancels itself out doesnt it?!  
(again, big point here. one cant say Marvel making everyone white in Thor was
originally they way they wanted to go about it. not only were they catering to demographics 
themselves, but also to commands handed down from the CCA, which forbade them to make
point of ethnics other than white, and sexes other than male. and definatly no homo, not even
a hint. also notice even the skin tones were all the same exact ? limited ink colors man!
but the large part was they were in fact catering to politics and demographics in the first place 
when they made these characters, so both points really cancel the other one out. i need no better 
example that the fact that Black cat was originally made African-American, but the company couldnt
allow Spider-man (or chose not to) have a racially diverse potential love interest, much less main
villian. thus the original concept was used for Storm of the X-men instead. but if Black cat shows up
in a film, and she is black, and people say she isnt supposed to be, actually she is.)

"

Well firstly, I didn’t mean it’s hard to follow in the sense of content, but rather that it’s actually just legitimately physically difficult to read and follow (and reply to) with all the separations and tampered with quotes. It's just a unique style of posting that I'm not exactly used to. No offence. Secondly, I cannot help but feel you’re living in one delusion of grandeur. My examples weren’t so much reflections of my opinions, so much as common complaints associated with Dark Knights Joker not being prima-white, Topher Grace not being Brock build, and Green Goblin not resembling much of any Goblin I’m familiar with. I cannot help but feel you’re living under a rock if you think that I would be the only one perturbed by these departures, nor did I say that I specifically was anyway. For my part, the only one that actually bothered me, though I personally would always rather the more comic accurate, was Green Goblin, nor am I picking on the suit so much as just stating a simple truth. The thing indeed resembles a power ranger. Comic book anal retentiveness isn’t MysterioMaximus exclusive; doubtful I’m even one of the worst. We’re infamous for it, so much so that standup comic Patton Oswald even wrote an entire rant on the topic. It’s just kind of hard for me to believe that you’ve not seen the regular and inevitable nitpicking from many upon many fans of comic books. And the ultimate point to my replies to you is simple: To some people aesthetics have value. By no means would I consider them above story, but I do think that visual accuracy has some part to play and in a series like Thor, ethnicity matters more than it has ever in a comic book adaptation. If you disagree, to each their own. By no means will something like Heimdall being black have much (or really any) sway over how I feel when I walk out of the theater, but I won't lie either...I would much prefer him how he's shown in the comics.

As for the other guy, my apologies to never remembering his name, he doesn’t really matter. I’m just trying to point out that he slightly derailed the topic. That is all.

#37 Posted by CATMANEXE (17052 posts) - - Show Bio

sorry for the delay, my internet connection dropped nice and low. pay for high-speed, get dial-up speed.
thus is my life.

@MysterioMaximus said:


Well firstly, I didn’t mean it’s hard to follow in the sense of content, but rather that it’s actually just legitimately physically difficult to read and follow (and reply to) with all the separations and tampered with quotes. No offense.

couldn't be helped. you posed several statements and rebuttals in single sentences. i broke them down to answer them individually and directly.
so none taken. expect it to be phrased the same way, i'm going to have to ask you to suffer.

Secondly, I cannot help but feel you’re living in one delusion of grandeur.


I'm afraid thats just another thing your feeling.

My examples weren’t so much reflections of myself,


Didnt think they were persay, yourself and a small group though. And you were referring to my statement in a fashion that
you were saying your own personal opinions in parts, so i addressed them as that.

so much as common complaints associated with Dark Knights Joker not being prima-white,


I have seriously never seen that one until right at your post.

Topher Grace not being Brock build, and Green Goblin not resembling much of any Goblin I’m familiar with.


I know of them, but there was obviously a reason for it. if you really look at comic book films so many details are in fact
not right from the comics its ridiculous. also the majority of the people that registered these opinions also complain
about the original versions they should be just like anyways. its sort of a weak point, and its off base but ill get to that.

I cannot help but feel you’re living under a rock if you think that I would be the only one perturbed by these departures, nor did I say that I specifically was anyway.

neither did i so im not. i referred to you as part of a group, not the whole. i said that specifically and highlighted it so you would've be confused.

For my part, the only one that actually bothered me, though I personally would always rather the more comic accurate, was Green Goblin, nor am I picking on the suit so much as just stating a simple truth. The thing indeed resembles a power ranger.

that was the way you felt. likewise the dewsign went over well with the audience share. it was also done for reasons. ill get to that as well

Comic book anal retentiveness isn’t MysterioMaximus exclusive; doubtful I’m even one of the worst.

see above

We’re infamous for it, so much so that standup comic Patton Oswald even wrote an entire rant on the topic. It’s just kind of hard for me to believe that you’ve not seen the regular and inevitable nitpicking from many upon many fans of comic books.

Patton Oswald,  sorry but he doesnt really matter in the grand scheme of things. i mean it. so much for his rant. Seinfeld rants about things too.
and of course ive seen it, i referred to it in every post. but its also not the exclusive feeling either. this site and every thread on it is a very testament
to the varied difference of opinion within comic fans, and i mean its varied. im sure youve seen that. also means that the opinion your subscribing
to doesnt cast everyone's vote. in fact theres a good reason its the most popular opinion. its the same as the opinions that mudsling a celebrity.
the same as the drunk obnoxious guy (just a comparison, dont take it too literally) thats yelling. is the one that people pay the most attention to
because its shocking, negative and loud. the city likes its sunshine, but it loves its dirt even more.


 


 
 

And the ultimate point to my replies to you is simple: To some people aesthetics have value. By no means would I consider them above story, but I do think that visual accuracy has some part to play and in a series like Thor,

i heard that opinion, and presented my reason why it wasnt right, but was actually moot. you quoted me and said " nay " but didnt provide why it
was " nay " you just iterated this same point.

ethnicity matters more than it has ever in a comic book adaptation.



because? your also going to have to link actual proof of this one BTW. sorry to call it out.you actually dodged this by using examples like Venom,
who isnt a change from his ethnicity in the comics.

If you disagree, to each their own. By no means will something like Heimdall being black have much (or really any) sway over how I feel when I walk out of the theater.

well that kind of cancels out the whole thing then?

As for the other guy, my apologies to never remembering his name, he doesn’t really matter.
I’m just trying to point out that he slightly derailed the topic. That is all.

who? avi? i dont agree there either. first off topics are always free flowing here. they dont need to nor will meet how you want them regimented.
thats freedom of speech. and i thought (?) made interesting points. the thing is (?) made a contrary opinion and put (?)self under fire. that
actually took some balls. still and again that has nothing to do with me. i can point out the fact that that person is okay with change in movies
when theyre own favorite character was done completely different on film. that is also saying something. avi felt offended by the
nature of the thread, and especially alot of the underlying points. that is that users right to post what they think, regardless of format.
 
---
now for the part im getting to.
first off, movies are never the same as their comic counterparts. im sure youve noticed. but do you know why?
because its impossible for them to be.
1. most of these comics took place in stories over several years, in several books. and i mean a long time.
it would literally be impossible to fit them into a movie. notice how movies like Watchmen and Sin City were almost
spot on (i say almost, and yes, some fans threw tizzes about the differences even there. that should tell you something).
they only had a few books. and they never changed in anyway themselves...
2. most comics and characters have changed and evolved majorly over time. the styles keep changing, the characterization,
the costumes, the powers, the characters themselves. so its pretty in passe to even claim what a character is supposed to
be exactly like you know? your version of preference for the character im sure differs from another fans.
3. theyre movies. duh! its an entirely different medium then a comic. if it looked and sounded (whereas it would be determined
in everyones head) just like a comic, it would be a comic, and not a movie. thats pretty self-explanatory
4. the money. want to know why Green Goblin looked the way he did? because they pitched the original costume at the theater
and they pissed themselves laughing. they knew theyre was no way anyone was going to see that as cool, nor believable.
maybe in a low-budget B movie, but not this. in fact im sure youve seen Ross's redesign. that was the next stage. but the overall
team involved just didnt like it/ and couldnt make it actually work on film.
5. continuing from that, alot of stuff in comics does not work in real life, physically. they can try and try and it just doesnt work.
definatly not with the resources at hand which, some may believe otherwise, studios are limited in. in fact most super hero
movies have not been most studios priority.
6. the idea has to sell to not only the studio, but to the masses as well. if it doesnt do that, it doesnt get financed and it doesnt get
greenlit. thats just the deal and there is no compromise, and no love for comic fans nostalgia. it indeed has to be something that
demographically is tested and considered a safe bet that it will make its money back, in fact comics themselves, and any product,
because ultimately thats what art is when its for sale has to do this. theyre number one legal responsibility is to their stockholders
and nothing else. and do you know how many people not only have to see a movie, but buy the DVD as well before a movie
pays for its own budget, and before a studio makes a profit? take that into account then the fact that no one wants to work for
peanuts either. you see, it has to be this way. its not a question of should. its either this, or nothing. we get no superhero movie
except for the wonderful low-budget Roger Corman Fantastic 4 movie
7. this is the big one, and i say this often and everyone dodges this one, but this is fact. the majority of the viewing audience, expected,
needed, and will, worldwide, do not read comics. they do not know the history of these characters. they also do not care about it either, made obvious
by the fact that they didnt bother with comics in the first place because that, yes, looked stupid and childish to them. this sint everyone of course.
but it is the significant percent of the viewing audience. the part that matters. the part that pays that aforementioned bill. so, while trying to make this
like the comic on one hand, it needs to be something those people want to see. taking one outside of oneself, you can pretty logical look over
any issue and say to yourself " would someone who has never even heard of this, and not only doesnt read comics, but doesnt have any interest
in even action cartoons want to see this? would my mother? " because these are the type of things that matter, and matter in that way that if theyre
not there, the movie does one of two things. it doesnt happen, which is less likely because the studio nows what theyre doing and why, and will
already have augmented the comic to fit what they need to have to make a film, or two, it flops hard. know what happens if we make movies just
like their comic counterparts? especially the early silly, 4 color inked, extremely racists ones? they crash and burn and then Hollywood says
" You know what, these superheros are a lost cause, dump them and lets go back to making Spaghetti Westerns for awhile so we can recover
from the financial disaster this just caused us."

want one additional movies are different from comics, especially in Marvels case? because all of their properties and the stories
and things related to the characters, are tied up in different movie companies. each have to not only ask permission each and
every time they use something, they have to pay them a sum. this is why it was Beta Ray Bill in the Planet Hulk animated, something
which alot of people where pissed about. Silver Surfer was working for Fox, he couldnt come play in Lionsgates sandbox. This factors
in to live action films being changed as of course, most superheros stories are intertwined, and its one of the largest parts of the comic-verses
continuity.

all that outside what was already said, its a different continuity. its a reboot of the comic. its Ultimates. its streamlined and made into something
more modern for everyone, because while the 40's comics worked, they worked in the 40's and for the small group that read them, which like
this or not, were predominantly children. that stuff worked then and for that, but it doesnt now. Stan Lee can vow for this as he changed his name
just because of the fact that even that was looked that down upon at the time. dont you notice how comics...now, are completely different versions
than they were? they evolved. in fact alot of the current standards made are in fact to open them up for a huge surgance of new readers coming in
after seeing the movies and meeting the characters for the first time. look at the costume designs on the Grant Morrison run of X-men for example mirroring the movie ones.
likewise, its not the 40's and 50's, so the movies need to be modernized as well. mathematically, and including the above factors and many more, it just
wont work.

now to get to this " token black person" thing
now, lets cut the fat out here and get to the real issue. race. it is. do you want to know how i can say that?
here, i'll show you. this is Heimdall....






notice a difference? yeah, pretty much everything about him. in fact his physical features are even different.
n fact his hair color even changed tone. so much for that then.

so were are the examples where being black in a white role didnt work. well, we have Wilson Fisk, aka Kingpin, and Catwoman.
some fans didnt like this. but heres some things ive noticed. first off Catwoman.

this is Eartha Kitt. this went over well, no lie



K. So why was Hale berry Catwoman. Token black person? But she was the star of the film, so that doesnt add up?
Because WB wanted to make a movie about a black Catwoman? Nope. Because Hale Berry showed dedication to the role,
and because audiences at the time wanted to pay to see her on film. Thats why.
But, this one nosedived right? Ive heard tow reasons for this. One, because Catwoman isnt black. Two, because the story was wrong.
I hope youve guessed why that assessment is wrong? Its because the majority of the people that are going to pay to see the movie dont care
about the comics, they dont read them, and they dont care what color Catwomans skin is, see Eartha Kitt. the movie bombed because
it was poorly done, and it wasnt interesting. They tried to get a solo Catwoman film off the ground ever since  Pfeiffer , but after enough research they
found that not enough, key word, people were interested. So they kept it on the drawing table, and finally got it greenlit, bit it failed, because even though
Catwoman has alot of fans, this movie wasnt going to work.



Now to the less infamous character. Kingpin. Why was Kingpin black. Well, one of the reasons was because it is actually more realistic for the Kingpin of
crime in Hells Kitchen New York to be a black man. Right? Nope. Because the movie needed o appeal to an African-Amercian demographic?
Nope. I read the interviews on this when it was in production. The film studio went out of their way to not give Michael Clarke Duncan this
role. he didnt fit the images they already had figured out for the white character. but alot of the crew of the film went to bat heavily to make sure it was him,
and theyre sole reason was because they liked the guy so much. they loved hanging out with him, which i should note yet another difference
in the way a movie is made then a comic, and an important factor in determining how it comes out. this is a team of coworkers on a job site.
thats what it is. its important to have people who get along, and can work with each other and act off each other. otherwise the film will fall apart.
otherwise actors will leave before its up.

so theres the big lack of proof that any of this actually matters, nor makes a real difference. because it never really has.

aside from the point i already made, which well, no real reason given why thats wrong either.
cant really see one single problem with Heimdall being a brother, in fact i will bet you know
after the movie comes out, the larger gripes from some of the comic book readers will be entirely
different changes than this one. and hey, its just Heimdall. imagine the outrage if it were Thor.
but would that be wrong? No, but it wouldnt sell because society is still not open minded enough
nor advanced to remove themselves from the trivial. 
Maybe someday...
It really only is a matter of perception, and that is a  fact that cant be ruled out of the equation.  
To me being bothered by this stuff is as bad as when a character that wasnt stated to be turns out to be LGBT.

bottom line is though, comic fans can complain about this until there blue in the face,
but films will never match long running comics because its actually impossible, so
theyre wasting theyre time doing so over it. complain if the movie is bad, or the acting sucks,
because thats actually something that could have been fixed.
its a business, and while its not one hundred percent about money, it is about money and has to be about
it first, because it takes money to make it in the first place, otherwise, it doesnt even exist. and you already know this,
and so do I, so why even sweat it?
#38 Posted by Vathers (87 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATMANEXE: 
 
Ma-Ma-Ma-Monster POST Post post......
#39 Posted by DeathinFire (281 posts) - - Show Bio
 
Holy crap what a can of worms.
@Taliax:
 Not real excited about Prince of Persia.  Never read Wanted.  Never saw Ghandi.  Dragon Ball movie was crap. 
 
@avwhite: I'm sorry if I offended you.  You are not being rude.  My point is like I said earlier, that I'm not really upset that Heimdall is now black, I'm upset that he's been changed.  If they cast a white guy as Luke Cage I'll be angry again (probably more so).  I don't know of the actor maybe he'll do a great job.  Most likely he'll have maybe a couple lines because honestly, how much does Heimdall even talk?   I didn't even know about Natalie Portman, it may sound ignorant but in the movies of her I've seen, she looks white. 
 
I'm not as concerned about the Nordic myth as I am a portrayal of the comics I read.  However, that guy from True Blood who they were gonna use as Thor I'm pretty sure is Scandanavian.  Doesn't matter that much because Thor was worshipped in other places in Europe as well Germany for example.  I know there was black people in Europe long long ago.  I know the Visigoths at one point were living in Northern Africa.  Doesn't matter the first thing I look at when an actor is playing a comic character is "Do they look the part?".  Then comes "Do they act the part?".  I was angry when I first saw Night Owl's costume in Watchmen.  I was angry that Jennifer Gardner played Elektra because she didn't look the part.  I'm happy that Rhodie was still black in Iron Man (also happy about Don Cheadle instead, but I digress).  I'm happy with Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury 1. Because he looks just like the Ultimates' Fury  2.  He's a great actor.  Even though the movie continuity is different then all the others it's still something familiar.  So what I'm doing now is flipping out over something really insignificant because "The fictional character I'm used to seeing has changed!!!".  
 
So onto the other part.  No I don't speak for the entire race I just know that the black people that happen to want to be friends with me will generally watch a movie and not really care if there's no black people in the movie.  What bothers them (and me) is when they throw in this lame stereotypical black guy where the character doesn't really fit.  I don't necessarily think it's other black people that want to see this lame walking stereotype in movies, but someone sure seems too. 
 
@MysterioMaximus: You pretty much said it in the last statement of that post.
#40 Posted by CylonDorado (1867 posts) - - Show Bio


Words can not express how much I don't give a *$#@ about Heimdall. I'd probably go see the movie if he was played buy the hunchback from 300 (in full makeup).   
 
But Black Panther is cool. So WTF?
#41 Posted by BlackestShite (243 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
" It's pretty well established that Marvel movies are not the same continuity as the comics,  So as far as the movie universe goes, Heimdall is of dark skin. "

I think its about time they got over it
#42 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackestShite said:
" @Green Skin said:
" It's pretty well established that Marvel movies are not the same continuity as the comics,  So as far as the movie universe goes, Heimdall is of dark skin. "
I think its about time they got over it "
AMEN!
#43 Posted by Mr.Hulk_Smashin'! (2569 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought the Kingpin was pretty good actually.

#44 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2727 posts) - - Show Bio
@DeathinFire: 
 
So...erm....why does Black Panther suck?
I think I missed that bit.
#45 Posted by biggkeem89 (1421 posts) - - Show Bio

Seeing that gods really don't have physical forms, and appear to different people in different ways, any god could be any race. I have no problem with Heimdall being black. Idris Elba is a stellar actor, and would do the role justice.  I don't care whose black  or white, as long as the actor does a good job. Heimdall could be a Indian dwarf for all I care, as long as the acting is good.The fact that anyone is pissed because a FICTIONAL character is another race in a movie is probably a sign that they need to seriously investigate their racial prejudices. And just saying Black Panther sucks is stupid. BP is a king, a hero, and a role model. He is one of the only black superheroes that is not stereotypical. He is not just some racial quota, but a legitimate "A-List" hero. So, I hate to play the race card, but they're a smell of racism in the air.....smells like crap
#46 Posted by Gylan Thomas (2727 posts) - - Show Bio
@They Killed Cap!: 
 
This is an old thread but gotta say some folk might called not bringin' up the race thing ignoring it.
#47 Posted by DevilmanEX (617 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm missing something.........what does BP suck?

#48 Edited by PowerHerc (82744 posts) - - Show Bio

Heimdall being a black character in the movie is  stupid and ridiculous.   
Would the politically correct hollywood establishment feel compelled to make a god from an an african religion white?  Would they depict the gods of the Wakandans as multi-racial? I doubt it, and I would'nt expect or want them to.  Asgardians being white makes sense given the race of the people who created/worshipped them.  Naturally, the P.C. media has to tinker wtih this to express their own politics and supposedly appease the sensitivities of others like them.  It's crazy. 
 
 
Oh, and Black Panther sucks for the same reason any other character sucks or does'nt suck.  Personal opinion.  Same reasoning applies to wahy a character is cool or not.
#49 Posted by llagrok (677 posts) - - Show Bio

Heimdall was known as the "hviteste æsir" or the whitest god, if you will. It makes absolutely no sense for him to be black. I have no problem with there being black warriors in valhalla, but a black god? And Heimdall of all people? Just plain stupid.

#50 Posted by Fire-brand (2308 posts) - - Show Bio
@avwhite said:
" Maybe he was just the best actor they found. Maybe they just decided that, for mythological deities that don't really exist, it doesn't matter. Maybe they just want to level the playing field and give some needy black actor a chance or exposure. Maybe some people don't see race...Just saying these things are possible. I would be worry whether he does a good job as an actor before I ever realized the color of his skin. The fact that this was your primary reaction is alarming.
 
This is not a historical picture, it's based on a very fictional comic book who very loosely bases their mythology on other mythology. The Thor from Norse mythology never transforms into a disabled human, Asgard is never set in the middle of America either. Thor never has a red haired clone or meets an alien with same abilities as him that wields a magic axe. This is not real life there is a lot room for leeway. And lets be honest there aren't very many African American characters in Thor's canon, and as an African American who reads Thor comics I've felt alienated. So while you might seem off put by it, I embrace it because it's finally a step to include a community that has been for so long alienated from things as basic as FANTASY films. 
 
Also I see you didn't mention Natalie Portman, an Israeli born Jewish actress, She's not from Europe, in fact most of the actors in the film are not of Nordic decent. So if your argument is about the character's ethnicties not matching the ethnicities of the actors portraying them, you've already failed because not a single one of them is Scandinavian. 
 
It's also important to mention that the African American population is not large enough to have an effect on how successful this movie is so its illogical to think that they would try to use an African American actor as a ploy to garner more money. Take avatar for instance, there is a single black character in the film and he is an unknown playing a blue alien, so no one knew he was black. Lord of the Rings has no black characters. Harry Potter even...other then extras in the background. And these are some of the most successful films of all time. I can go on and on, but in all honesty there is NO GOOD reason to exclude characters from a fantasy film that is not based on real life or history. You would have a point other wise but for this...no. 
 
One  last thing, a history lesson of sorts,...there were black people all over Europe since classical Greece. Ever heard of the Moors. In fact there are sotries about barbarians and vikings who had "ebony skin". 
 
I'm not trying to be rude or inflammatory. But this has offended me.
"
lol, idris elba has been in like three movies this year. he was in The Losers, Takers, and Legacy all in 2010. heis far from needing money or exposure. i have no problem with the token minorities, i just wish that they found a more appropriate place for them. i do like idris elba and i think he'll do a great job.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.