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    Thor

    Character » Thor appears in 8586 issues.

    Thor Odinson is the All-father of Asgard /God of Thunder, offspring of All-Father Odin & Elder-Goddess Gaea. Combining the powers of both realms makes him an elder-god hybrid and a being of no perceivable limits. Armed with his enchanted Uru hammer Mjolnir which helps him to channel his godly energies. The mightiest and the most beloved warrior in all of Asgard, a staunch ally for good and one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse/omniverse. Thor is also a founding member of the Avengers.

    So Lets Talk MCU Thor/Asgardians & Magic...

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    w0nd

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    #51  Edited By w0nd

    @uugieboogie: I think they are more than that, but they got carried away with the weapons they used and even the vehicles, they over did the scifi route in the movie. Loki and Frigga displayed what looked like "magic" though. I think even Odin put loki in his place when talking about them being gods.

    here we go

    Loki: I went down to Midgard to rule the people of Earth as a benevolent God, just like you.
    Odin: We are not gods. We're born, we live, we die, just as humans do.
    Loki: Give or take five thousand years.



    I find it odd Odin in the movie was quick to deny being a god, when every other version of him threw that title around whenever he could, even when he is wrong, he had the "I am a god, I can do whatever i want" attitude
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    Asgaard

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    And this is why I'm starting to hate the MCU; they're butchering some of their most important characters. I hope DCEU doesn't go that route with Wonder Woman.

    Why is so hard to acknowledge the fact that comics and live action are very different mediums with very different rules?

    You seriously think that the God concept fits the world that was introduced in MoS? Comic book movies aren't made just to comic book readers...

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    deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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    @m_man: All you say is soul forge. That's your whole argument. They are not wrong, you just need to understand that magical things can be based in science. And that is what is happening here

    If anything you are saying the asgardians are wrong about their own magic.

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    uugieboogie

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    Also, I hate the hypocrisy in Fiege. "Magic is unbelievable" YET MAKES FILMS ABOUT A MAN WHO SURVIVED A GAMMA BURST (which would kill ANY other human instantly), A MOVIE ABOUT A SUPEHERO THAT HAS A HAMMER WHO HE AND A FEW OTHERS CAN ONLY LIFT, A MOVIE WITH A TALKING RACCOON, AND A MOVIE WHERE AN ALIENPROCREATED WITH A HUMAN BEING, A PERSON OF AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SPECIES FROM AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PLANET!

    Feige is one of those atheist scientific people that believes there's a logical explanation for everything. He's basically like Tony Stark..

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    Petey_is_Spidey

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    @asgaard said:
    @petey_is_spidey said:

    And this is why I'm starting to hate the MCU; they're butchering some of their most important characters. I hope DCEU doesn't go that route with Wonder Woman.

    Why is so hard to acknowledge the fact that comics and live action are very different mediums with very different rules?

    You seriously think that the God concept fits the world that was introduced in MoS? Comic book movies aren't made just to comic book readers...

    How are they different worlds AT ALL? Both are fictional. Both contain alien species. Both contain HUMAN BEINGS that posses traits and abilities that a real human being simply just can't do. Both are controlled by a writer/director. Both are made for fans who are interested in superheroes. I honestly don't see the difference.

    Not only that, but you cannot create a world like the MCU or DCEU and than turn around and call magic "Unbelievable and impossible". Your being a hypocrite.

    And why would magic not work in the DCEU? They have ONE film out, which showed nothing that contradicted the existence of Gods or magic. And even if they did, this early in their universe they can honestly just go back and change it.

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    WastelandMan

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    #56  Edited By WastelandMan

    @uugieboogie:

    Please don't use Destiny as a reference when their ENTIRE lore is filled w/ plot holes. "Also Warlocks have long studied the Traveler, mastering some of its arcane energies. Its true purpose still remains a great mystery, but discovering truth has always driven you into the unknown. Now, our enemies are the only thing that stands between you and the lost wonders of our Golden Age."

    Also, if you don't want me to use Destiny as an example, what about the Covenant from Halo? Holy ring. Great journey. Also, arcane =/= magic.

    You keep using the same scene & the same quote. Thats one thing

    I used multiple quotes

    that still doesn't explain Loki & Mjolnir.

    It doesn't need to be explained. It's exact workings aren't meant to be explained, like I said. And I quote one of the scientists who work on the film:

    "They key to making this work is not explaining things too much, i.e. avoiding “the midichlorian solution.” It may seem silly to us that Odin can say something to the hammer and it can know whether Thor deserves to wield it. Or that Thor’s costume magically flies onto him when he’s in possession of a hammer. Or that there is a hammer that can give you superpowers. But, as this Cosmic Variance post (not written by Sean) points out, that’s the point! It is so advanced that it looks like magic to us."

    & Thor doesn't say its very advance technology, he says "Your ancestors called it magic and you call it science, well I come from a place where they're one in the same thing". He's not essentially saying his people just use advance tech. He could be implying that science itself is primitive magic, or he can be implying they use both magic & science a bit of mystical science.

    Not according to the person who worked on the film:

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    Saying something is the same as the other isn't saying they use both. It's saying what they CONSIDER to be magic is the same as science à la: a quantum field generator is a "soul forge" or a wormhole generator is a "bifrost".

    Marvel does this get a wider audience & appeal to more people. You have to think about the people who don't believe in higher beings & ppl don't get the magic concept & scientific people who believes there's an explanation for everything. You still have to make a film that relates to those ppl too so why not make it a mystery & let each person have there own perception of it.

    I agree. But perception is relative and not what actually is. Multiple people one of which actually wrote for the film say it's advanced tech but they keep its exact workings to give it a feel of mysticism but it's still not magic.

    You say Thor is the one who basically said they use advanced tech right? In the beginning of AoU its completely the opposite when it comes to everyone trying lift Mjolnir.

    A device coded to only be used by people with certain traits seems perfectly fine to me.........we already have those.....Mjolnir is just a significantly more advanced version.

    I never said being from a different dimension had anything to do with magic. What I'm saying his you keep saying ppl on screen keeps referencing them as using advanced tech. They also reference Thor & the Asgardians as being aliens from a different planet. Asgard sits in a different dimension, thats goes to show how much on screen in character they know about the Asgardians.

    How does being from a different dimension make you less of an alien...?

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    Petey_is_Spidey

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    #57  Edited By Petey_is_Spidey

    @uugieboogie said:
    @petey_is_spidey said:

    Also, I hate the hypocrisy in Fiege. "Magic is unbelievable" YET MAKES FILMS ABOUT A MAN WHO SURVIVED A GAMMA BURST (which would kill ANY other human instantly), A MOVIE ABOUT A SUPEHERO THAT HAS A HAMMER WHO HE AND A FEW OTHERS CAN ONLY LIFT, A MOVIE WITH A TALKING RACCOON, AND A MOVIE WHERE AN ALIENPROCREATED WITH A HUMAN BEING, A PERSON OF AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SPECIES FROM AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PLANET!

    Feige is one of those atheist scientific people that believes there's a logical explanation for everything. He's basically like Tony Stark..

    Yeah, he seriously thinks a physicist could travel to the Harry Potter world and explain what's going on, I literally facepalmed when he said that bull crap.

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    uugieboogie

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    #58  Edited By uugieboogie

    @w0nd said:

    @uugieboogie: I think they are more than that, but they got carried away with the weapons they used and even the vehicles, they over did the scifi route in the movie. Loki and Frigga displayed what looked like "magic" though. I think even Odin put loki in his place when talking about them being gods

    I just think they way they went about to let each person's perception be their own answer. CBM aren't made for just comic book fans so they need a broader audience which is why the mystery doesn't give a definitely answer that would lean closer to one audience than the other.

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    WastelandMan

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    #59  Edited By WastelandMan

    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: All you say is soul forge. That's your whole argument.

    Because you keep ignoring what I say. That's YOUR whole argument.

    They are not wrong, you just need to understand that magical things can be based in science. And that is what is happening here

    Yes what is LABELED magic is actually based in science, you mean.

    If anything you are saying the asgardians are wrong about their own magic.

    "The premise is based on the idea that Thor and company aren’t gods, they just have much more advanced technology than we do."

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    If anything you're saying the writers and actual scientists are wrong about their own film. Why do you keep ignoring their terms are different than ours?? What they call magic is actually science. What they call the bifrost and soul forge are actually machines. This point flies over your head and into another dimension each time I make it.

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    Asgaard

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    @asgaard said:
    @petey_is_spidey said:

    And this is why I'm starting to hate the MCU; they're butchering some of their most important characters. I hope DCEU doesn't go that route with Wonder Woman.

    Why is so hard to acknowledge the fact that comics and live action are very different mediums with very different rules?

    You seriously think that the God concept fits the world that was introduced in MoS? Comic book movies aren't made just to comic book readers...

    How are they different worlds AT ALL? Both are fictional. Both contain alien species. Both contain HUMAN BEINGS that posses traits and abilities that a real human being simply just can't do. Both are controlled by a writer/director. Both are made for fans who are interested in superheroes. I honestly don't see the difference.

    OK dude there is no difference... Funny stuff is that Iron Man is incredible popular in live action but not in comics, not saying you are wrong because you are obviously right... Pointless discussion when you make this claims...

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    uugieboogie

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    @m_man said:

    @uugieboogie:

    Also, if you don't want me to use Destiny as an example, what about the Covenant from Halo? Holy ring. Great journey. Also, arcane =/= magic.

    Lol, google "arcane energy" & let me know hat you end up with.

    I used multiple quotes

    No you used the same 2 or 3 over & over again. Especially the one about her being "goo-goo" eyed used it out of context to make it fit your argument.

    It doesn't need to be explained. It's exact working aren't meant to be explained, like I said. And I quote one of the scientists who work on the film:

    "They key to making this work is not explaining things too much, i.e. avoiding “the midichlorian solution.” It may seem silly to us that Odin can say something to the hammer and it can know whether Thor deserves to wield it. Or that Thor’s costume magically flies onto him when he’s in possession of a hammer. Or that there is a hammer that can give you superpowers. But, as this Cosmic Variance post (not written by Sean) points out, that’s the point! It is so advanced that it looks like magic to us."

    Key words is that he says it looks like magic to us. Not all in that statement does he say it isn't magic. The whole purpose is to leave it up to the imagination & that statement is literally backing everything I said in my previous post.

    Saying something is the same as the other isn't saying they use both. It's saying what they CONSIDER to be magic is the same as science à la: a quantum field generator is a "soul forge" or a wormhole generator is a "bifrost".

    Going by your logic what stops science from just being primitive magic? The Asgardians technically were around first right? They came down early in human history & left their influence right? So wha stops "science" from just being primitive magic?

    I agree. But perception is relative and not what actually is. Multiple people one of which actually wrote for the film say it's advanced tech but they keep its exact workings to give it a feel of mysticism but it's still not magic.

    Perceptions is 9/10 of the law. Please read Feige's take on Dr Strange & then talk me about what the President of Marvel studios thinks about the perception of the films.

    A device coded to only be lifted by people with certain traits seems perfectly fine to me.........we already have those.....Mjolnir is just a significantly more advanced version.

    A device coded TOLD to give super powers, makes lightning turn into clothes/armor & only by lifted by the those deemed worthy. Seriously? Lets take about Odin just holding Loki in his hand & completely changes his characteristics. There's ALOT of things in Thor's background that can't be chalked p to advanced technology.

    How does being from different dimension make you less of an alien...?

    First you said I said him being from a different dimension makes him magical (never said that) now you're saying that I'm saying him being from a different dimension doesn't make him an alien (I never said that either) are you reading my post. Anyone belonging to a foreign country or nation is technically an alien. What I'm referring to his Fury basically saying they're from a different planet. The BARELY know anything about the Asgardians so you taking what they say as gospel doesn't make sense. I'm referencing him being from a different dimension to say that the people on earth don't know too much about the Asgardians.

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    uugieboogie

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    Yeah, he seriously thinks a physicist could travel to the Harry Potter world and explain what's going on, I literally facepalmed when he said that bull crap.

    LMAO you read that too? He really needs to be stopped lol. You can't have someone like that with no imagination be in charge of comic book movies.

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    FearTheLiving

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    As far as I can tell it is essentially magic they're just calling it science that you can't understand. As long as it looks that same, acts the same, and doesn't really hinder anything I'm fine with it.

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    Petey_is_Spidey

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    @m_man: There's no way you can logically explain a hammer, that can control the weather, that can return to it's wielder with just a thought or movement of a hand, that cannot be lifted unless you are "worthy, that if held to the sky, brings down lightning that instantly teleports you to another "realm" and that can change it's definition of worthy just by some old geezer whispering close to it, as science.

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    Petey_is_Spidey

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    Also, what's weird is how Odin calls humans mortals and refers to himself as immortal, but later in the EXACT SAME film he tells Loki they're mortal and live and die and what not.

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    uugieboogie

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    @m_man:

    We can just agree to this agree, I doubt this argument would anywhere.

    Also, what's weird is how Odin calls humans mortals and refers to himself as immortal, but later in the EXACT SAME film he tells Loki they're mortal and live and die and what not.

    Lmao exactly

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    Asgaard

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    #67  Edited By Asgaard

    @feartheliving said:

    As far as I can tell it is essentially magic they're just calling it science that you can't understand. As long as it looks that same, acts the same, and doesn't really hinder anything I'm fine with it.

    It's a plot device that allows the Asgardians to still be Asgardians and fit the Mcu world building...

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    uugieboogie

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    As far as I can tell it is essentially magic they're just calling it science that you can't understand. As long as it looks that same, acts the same, and doesn't really hinder anything I'm fine with it.

    I think this is a good interpretation

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    WastelandMan

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    #69  Edited By WastelandMan

    @uugieboogie:

    Lol, google "arcane energy" & let me know hat you end up with.

    No Caption Provided

    Nope. No mention of magic anywhere.

    No you used the same 2 or 3 over & over again.

    Not for you specifically. The other quotes kept getting ignored.

    Especially the one about her being "goo-goo" eyed used it out of context to make it fit your argument.

    Claim with no evidence. Show me I used it out of context. It wasn't.

    Key words is that he says it looks like magic to us. Not all in that statement does he say it isn't magic.

    If it was magic, it didn't need to look like it now does it.

    The whole purpose is to leave it up to the imagination & that statement is literally backing everything I said in my previous post.

    No, the whole purpose is to give the tech the appearance of magic while not actually it being magic to satisfy everyone.

    Going by your logic what stops science from just being primitive magic? The Asgardians technically were around first right? They came down early in human history & left their influence right? So wha stops "science" from just being primitive magic?

    It could be "magic" if it's labeled that way but it's just that, a label. What matters is what it actuall isand not what it's called.

    Perceptions is 9/10 of the law.

    Perception is often wrong.

    Please read Feige's take on Dr Strange & then talk me about what the President of Marvel studios thinks about the perception of the films.

    Already did ages ago:

    I just watched the Neil deGrasse Tyson ‘Cosmos’ series, which is amazing, and which may as well be an acid trip. It is mind-bending and it’s all based in physics and based in quantum mechanics. We’re going to play a lot with the notion of that as an explanation for how the sorcerers do what they do.

    Quantum physics is going to explain how sorcerers do what they do. Quantum physics isn't magic.

    A device coded TOLD to give super powers, makes lightning turn into clothes/armor & only by lifted by the those deemed worthy. Seriously? Lets take about Odin just holding Loki in his hand & completely changes his characteristics.

    "They key to making this work is not explaining things too much, i.e. avoiding “the midichlorian solution.” It may seem silly to us that Odin can say something to the hammer and it can know whether Thor deserves to wield it. Or that Thor’s costume magically flies onto him when he’s in possession of a hammer. Or that there is a hammer that can give you superpowers. But, as this Cosmic Variance post (not written by Sean) points out, that’s the point! It is so advanced that it looks like magic to us."

    There's ALOT of things in Thor's background that can't be chalked p to advanced technology.

    Tell that to the scientists who helped make the film. Also a lot of things in science fiction is impossible. Doesn't make it magic.

    First you said I said him being from a different dimension makes him magical (never said that)

    Never said that. I inferred it.

    now you're saying that I'm saying him being from a different dimension doesn't make him an alien (I never said that either) are you reading my post.

    Dude.......................you said and I quote:

    "What I'm saying his you keep saying ppl on screen keeps referencing them as using advanced tech. They also reference Thor & the Asgardians as being aliens from a different planet. Asgard sits in a different dimension, thats goes to show how much on screen in character they know about the Asgardians."

    As if being in a different dimension contradicts the characters calling asgardians aliens. How could that NOT be what you meant??? It seems like you're trying to save face.

    Anyone belonging to a foreign country or nation is technically an alien. What I'm referring to his Fury basically saying they're from a different planet.

    Initially, you didn't say he said they were from a different planet, you said he called him an alien.

    The BARELY know anything about the Asgardians so you taking what they say as gospel doesn't make sense. I'm referencing him being from a different dimension to say that the people on earth don't know too much about the Asgardians.

    I brought what he said up because you were taking what Loki and Frigga said as gospel.

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    WastelandMan

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    #70  Edited By WastelandMan

    @petey_is_spidey said:

    @m_man: There's no way you can logically explain a hammer, that can control the weather, that can return to it's wielder with just a thought or movement of a hand, that cannot be lifted unless you are "worthy, that if held to the sky, brings down lightning that instantly teleports you to another "realm" and that can change it's definition of worthy just by some old geezer whispering close to it, as science.

    Ask the people who made the film:

    "They key to making this work is not explaining things too much, i.e. avoiding “the midichlorian solution.” It may seem silly to us that Odin can say something to the hammer and it can know whether Thor deserves to wield it. Or that Thor’s costume magically flies onto him when he’s in possession of a hammer. Or that there is a hammer that can give you superpowers. But, as this Cosmic Variance post (not written by Sean) points out, that’s the point! It is so advanced that it looks like magic to us."

    It may seem silly and illogical to you, but you can say that about pretty much anything in science fiction like the Matrix....doesn't mean it's magic.

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    deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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    @m_man: I ignore the soul forge because I don't see how it is relevant. I acknowledged it earlier but you keep bringing it up like it proves something. You don't get that the asgardians call their own abilities magic, and that this magic is based in science. You say its science yet there's no science that can explain their abilities fully. Why don't you want it to be called magic? One could even define science we can't understand is magic.

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    uugieboogie

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    #72  Edited By uugieboogie

    @m_man:

    • The word is "Arcane Energy" not arcane. Please use it as its completely used in the quote in the game.
    • "If it was magic, it didn't need to look like it now does it." makes no sense
    • Reread my post... You're taking what it is being said by onscreen characters as being fact. Onscreen characters have simply referred to Thor from being fro ma different planet (this is not the case), then you have Widow saying they're from legends saying they're basically gods. All they know about the characters are from legend... THEY DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT THE ASGARDIANS <---- THAT is what I'm saying. I'm not saying they aren't aliens & I'm not saying being from a different dimension makes you "magical". My point in bringing up what Fury said & what Widow said is to show that they really don't know anything about the Asgardians. So why are you taking what they say as gospel? I take what Loki & Frigga say because its about themselves, clearly they know about themselves. You literally are ignoring everything I'm saying to you.
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    WastelandMan

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    #73  Edited By WastelandMan

    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: I ignore the soul forge because I don't see how it is relevant. I acknowledged it earlier but you keep bringing it up like it proves something. You don't get that the asgardians call their own abilities magic, and that this magic is based in science.

    ..........The fact they label things that have nothing to do with magic names like "soul forge" and "bifrost" just shows what they call things don't matter. How you can not possibly comprehend that point is beyond me. What matters is the actual people who MADE the film and what it actually is, not what it's called.

    You say its science yet there's no science that can explain their abilities fully.

    A lot of things in fiction especially in science fiction is never fully explained....doesn't mean it's magic. The Matrix isn't explained fully, therefore it's magic. If we could explain something fully, we'd have Asgardian tech and the Matrix wouldn't we?

    Why don't you want it to be called magic?

    Has nothing to do with what I want but what it actually is.

    One could even define science we can't understand is magic.

    Ignorance is not magic.

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    WastelandMan

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    #74  Edited By WastelandMan

    @uugieboogie said:

    @m_man:

    • The word is "Arcane Energy" not arcane. Please use it as its completely used in the quote in the game.

    Arcane energy is not a term you can look up a definition of. It's often associated with magic but so is the term arcane in general. Doesn't mean it's magic. That's a sophistic argument.

    "If it was magic, it didn't need to look like it now does it." makes no sense

    Why make it look like magic? Why not just make it magic?

    Reread my post... You're taking what it is being said by onscreen characters as being fact.

    .........................You did so first. Are you forgetting when you brought up what Loki and Frigga said?

    Onscreen characters have simply referred to Thor from being fro ma different planet (this is not the case), then you have Widow saying they're from legends saying they're basically gods. All they know about the characters are from legend... THEY DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT THE ASGARDIANS <---- THAT is what I'm saying. I'm not saying they aren't aliens & I'm not saying being from a different dimension makes you "magical". My point in bringing up what Fury said & what Widow said is to show that they really don't know anything about the Asgardians. So why are you taking what they say as gospel? I take what Loki & Frigga say because its about themselves, clearly they know about themselves. You literally are ignoring everything I'm saying to y

    You're projecting hardcore here. My point was that characters say a lot of things. They called a quantum field generator a "soul forge". Does that mean it's an actual forge of souls? Well? Does it? No because you're completely selective with your standards. On top of this, for the billionth time, their terms are different than ours. It was explicitly stated their terms for magic is actually technology:

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    (This quote, by the way, you claimed was out of context but when I asked you how so, you completely ignored it.) What matters is what the WRITERS of the film say. You know, the people who actually MADE the film in question? The people who know their film better than anyone else? You know, those people? Maybe listen to them instead of acting like you know better than the people who actually made it?

    So you have example in-film of characters giving supernatural names to completely natural technology (soul forge, bifrost) and writers of the film even SAYING that what they call magic is just technology and science. How you can possibly deny this just blows my mind.

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    @m_man: Your point is entirely irrelevant. You somehow think that because they come up with stupid names that they can't use magic? What?

    Yeah the people who made the film made the characters refer to their abilites as magical. The people who made the film had frigga say she taught Loki magic and illusions, not science.

    More sci fi irrelevant stuff.

    But its not what is.

    That's your personal definition.

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    uugieboogie

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    @m_man said:

    Arcane energy is not a term you can look up a definition of. It's often associated with magic but so is the term arcane in general. Doesn't mean it's magic. That's a sophistic argument.

    You literally just completely avoided it, lol. Arcane Energy is associated w/ magic exclusively. Next time you bring up a reference (Destiny) make sure you know what you're talking about.

    Why make it look like magic? Why not just make it magic?

    I literally went over this multiple times... The film is made to branch out to a wider audience. There are people who are idk Feige who believe there's a logically explanation for everything. The mystery that it leaves you with is what draws to more ppl. I've said this, @jayc1324 & so has @petey_is_spidey. Reread my post... You're taking what it is being said by onscreen characters as being fact.

    .........................You did so first. Are you forgetting when you brought up what Loki and Frigga said?

    I brought up what Loki & Frigga said about THEMSELVES & compared it to what other people (who aren't even Asgardian) has said about them. You think Nick Fury knows more about the Asgardians than they do about themselves?

    You're projecting hardcore here. My point was that characters say a lot of things. They called a quantum field generator a "soul forge". Does that mean it's an actual forge of souls? Well? Does it? No because you're completely selective with your standards. On top of this, for the billionth time, their terms are different than ours. It was explicitly stated their terms for magic is actually technology:

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    (This quote, by the way, you claimed was out of context but when I asked you how so, you completely ignored it.) What matters is what the WRITERS of the film say. You know, the people who actually MADE the film in question? The people who know their film better than anyone else? You know, those people? Maybe listen to them instead of acting like you know better than the people who actually made it?

    So you have example in-film of character giving supernatural names to completely natural technologys (soul forge, bifrost) and writers of the film even SAYING that what they call magic is just technology and science. How you can possibly deny this just blows my mind.

    You keep comparing ONE scene that contradicts multiple others. Read this post or post 63 if you will. This is what everyone here is trying to tell you. You're so stuck on this "soul forge" thing. That can easily be flipped... Like I said before Asgardians were around first correct? They came down to earth & were worshipped as gods & left behind some of their influence correct? Again what stops science from primitive magic? What stops them from only calling it advance science/technology because stye don't understand it? They doesn't mean its not magic it means they don't understand it. This debate w/ you is just too much, lol you can agree w/ whatever you want, everyone is different w/ different views.

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    WastelandMan

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    #77  Edited By WastelandMan

    @uugieboogie:

    You literally just completely avoided it, lol. Arcane Energy is associated w/ magic exclusively. Next time you bring up a reference (Destiny) make sure you know what you're talking about.

    The "arcane energy" given to characters is from the traveler which uses advanced technology. You're arguments are beyond sophistic. Only one who needs to play the game is you.

    I literally went over this multiple times... The film is made to branch out to a wider audience. There are people who are idk Feige who believe there's a logically explanation for everything. The mystery that it leaves you with is what draws to more ppl. I've said this, @jayc1324 & so has @petey_is_spidey. Reread my post...

    I'm saying it's not magic. Is this not what we're discussing?

    You're taking what it is being said by onscreen characters as being fact.

    Now you're straight up lying. I only brought up what Fury said to show you shouldn't take what characters say seriously. The basis of my arguments are from what the WRITERS and SCIENTISTS say.

    I brought up what Loki & Frigga said about THEMSELVES & compared it to what other people (who aren't even Asgardian) has said about them.

    And Thor said what is called magic and science are the same.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    They called a wormhole generator a "bifrost" quantum field generator a "soul forge".

    You think Nick Fury knows more about the Asgardians than they do about themselves?

    You think you know better than the multiple people who made the film?

    You keep comparing ONE scene that contradicts multiple others.

    So the bifrost AND the soul forge were in just one scene that were the same? (that's sarcasm so don't say I'm saying you said that)

    This is what everyone here is trying to tell you.

    I see plenty of people here acknowledging it's science............but okay.

    You're so stuck on this "soul forge" thing. That can easily be flipped... Like I said before Asgardians were around first correct? They came down to earth & were worshipped as gods & left behind some of their influence correct? Again what stops science from primitive magic? What stops them from only calling it advance science/technology because stye don't understand it? They doesn't mean its not magic it means they don't understand it.

    Simple........the fact it was never magic to begin with. They just labeled it "magic". This actually works perfectly with what I'm saying. Asgardians terms for science is magic hence where humans got the concept of magic but humans couldn't understand their tech so they labeled magic as something they can't understand but it's still science and tech........

    This debate w/ you is just too much, lol you can agree w/ whatever you want, everyone is different w/ different views.

    Yeah, I'll go with the multiple writers and scientists statements who made the film instead of someone on the internet.

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    #78  Edited By WastelandMan

    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: Your point is entirely irrelevant. You somehow think that because they come up with stupid names that they can't use magic? What?

    Hey, man, take it up with the Asgardians I didn't name their technology.

    Yeah the people who made the film made the characters refer to their abilites as magical. The people who made the film had frigga say she taught Loki magic and illusions, not science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    More sci fi irrelevant stuff.

    Totally relevant but you can't consider anything outside your narrow perspective.

    But its not what is.

    Not according to the people who made the film......but you know way better than the people who actually made the movies, right?

    That's your personal definition.

    Want to show me the official definition that says ignorance is magic? It's not in any dictionary I own..........only one with personal definitions is you. That's been your entire argument with this word play you've been making this entire time.

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    @m_man: Why would I need to consider anything else. We are talking about Thor. Who cares about the matrix?

    Are you not hearing my point that magic and science are very similar here? That in this case the magic is based in science but is still magic?

    I never said ignorance was magic. There are many definitions for the word.

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    WastelandMan

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    #80  Edited By WastelandMan

    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: Why would I need to consider anything else. We are talking about Thor. Who cares about the matrix?

    Just showing how something not being able to be explained doesn't make it magic. Thor with his technology and the technology in the Matrix........both can't be explained.......both aren't magic. This is so surreal to me that you can't understand this.

    Are you not hearing my point that magic and science are very similar here? That in this case the magic is based in science but is still magic?

    Nope. It's science. Really advanced tech. Writers/scientists who worked on the film say it is.

    I never said ignorance was magic. There are many definitions for the word.

    You said what we can't understand in science can be called magic. What we don't understand is ignorance. It's literally the same thing. And no, there is no definition of magic that includes ignorance or lack of scientific knowledge.

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    @m_man: What I don't understand is how the matrix is relevant.

    Writers who works on the film also had the characters say its magic. I know no science that can do what Loki can do. Science and magic are very similar here. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Not knowing stuff doesn't equal magic. But yes. What we don't understand can be called magic.

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    uugieboogie

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    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: What I don't understand is how the matrix is relevant.

    Writers who works on the film also had the characters say its magic. I know no science that can do what Loki can do. Science and magic are very similar here. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Not knowing stuff doesn't equal magic. But yes. What we don't understand can be called magic.

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    WastelandMan

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    #83  Edited By WastelandMan
    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: What I don't understand is how the matrix is relevant.

    Dude.......both films has tech based in science. Both can't be explained. If you're going to call the tech in MCU magic you'd have to call the tech in Matrix magic too by your own standards. Do you consider the tech in the Matrix magic? Well do you?

    @uugieboogie: Writers who works on the film also had the characters say its magic.

    Writers also had characters say a quantum field generator is a "soul forge". Which you always ignore.The writers THEMSELVES said it's advanced technology.

    I know no science that can do what Loki can do. Science and magic are very similar here.

    I know no science that can do what's shown in the Matrix. Does that mean the Matrix uses magic by your own logic?

    Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Not knowing stuff doesn't equal magic. But yes. What we don't understand can be called magic.

    Based on nothing but your personal definition. Show me ANY dictionary that says ignorance is magic :|

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    HaveAtThee

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    #84  Edited By HaveAtThee

    You guys are all arguing in circles.

    MCU Asgard = Weird aliens with powers

    Marvel Comics Asgard = Mystical deities with powers

    Not hard to see the difference. The MCU thinks it's easier to explain them as aliens rather than gods. They're not interested in anything more than how best they can tap into as many key demographics as possible.

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    @m_man: I don't ignore it. I acknowledge that the magic is based in science.

    Matrix is still as irrelevant as ever. To answer your question, no I don't. But I consider the enchantments and abilities Loki shows to be magic and so do other MCU characters.

    Never said ignorance is magic

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    WastelandMan

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    #86  Edited By WastelandMan

    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: I don't ignore it. I acknowledge that the magic is based in science.

    Matrix is still as irrelevant as ever. To answer your question, no I don't. But I consider the enchantments and abilities Loki shows to be magic and so do other MCU characters.

    By your own logic, you'd have to consider the Matrix tech magic because you can't explain the tech in the Matrix just like you can't explain the tech in MCU. They call it magic. Cool. For the Zillionth time: what Asgardians call magic isn't what we consider magic and is actually their word for science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    "The premise is based on the idea that Thor and company aren’t gods, they just have much more advanced technology than we do."

    This is just so bizarre. You're literally saying the multiple creators and scientists of the film are wrong and you know more about their own project than they do. This is like the ultimate denial of reality. It's likely telling someone wearing a hat in front of you they're not actually wearing a hat.

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    @m_man: More matrix crap

    Magic isnt their word for science. They are two separate words, but they involve each other a lot. If you take what Thor and the other asgardians say about magic into account with what the movie makers say it is clear that there is magic, but it is based in science. I've already said multiple times that they are right. The characters calling it magic are right too though. You are looking at it in a black and white manner with no room for gray area.

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    WastelandMan

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    #88  Edited By WastelandMan

    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: More matrix crap

    Magic isnt their word for science. They are two separate words, but they involve each other a lot. If you take what Thor and the other asgardians say about magic into account with what the movie makers say it is clear that there is magic, but it is based in science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    I've already said multiple times that they are right. The characters calling it magic are right too though. You are looking at it in a black and white manner with no room for gray area.

    They are right too because what they consider magic is different to what we do. Their "magic" is advance technology. There's plenty of room for gray area, magic may eventually come to MCU but as of right now, nothing magical as been shown.

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    GoodBoy6

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    @m_man said:
    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: More matrix crap

    Magic isnt their word for science. They are two separate words, but they involve each other a lot. If you take what Thor and the other asgardians say about magic into account with what the movie makers say it is clear that there is magic, but it is based in science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    I've already said multiple times that they are right. The characters calling it magic are right too though. You are looking at it in a black and white manner with no room for gray area.

    They are right too because what they consider magic is different to what we do. Their "magic" is advance technology. There's plenty of room for gray area, magic may eventually come to MCU but as of right now, nothing magical as been shown.

    there wont be magic.you should know that as soon as Odin said "We are not Gods".if they are not divine beings then there is no magic in this universe,Mcu.

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    Asgaard

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    @goodboy6 said:
    @m_man said:
    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: More matrix crap

    Magic isnt their word for science. They are two separate words, but they involve each other a lot. If you take what Thor and the other asgardians say about magic into account with what the movie makers say it is clear that there is magic, but it is based in science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    I've already said multiple times that they are right. The characters calling it magic are right too though. You are looking at it in a black and white manner with no room for gray area.

    They are right too because what they consider magic is different to what we do. Their "magic" is advance technology. There's plenty of room for gray area, magic may eventually come to MCU but as of right now, nothing magical as been shown.

    there wont be magic.you should know that as soon as Odin said "We are not Gods".if they are not divine beings then there is no magic in this universe,Mcu.

    GoodBoy6 there is a difference between opinion and Agenda... And we already know your opinion, you are incapable to add anything to the theme that you keep bumping with the same words...

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    GoodBoy6

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    @asgaard said:
    @goodboy6 said:
    @m_man said:
    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: More matrix crap

    Magic isnt their word for science. They are two separate words, but they involve each other a lot. If you take what Thor and the other asgardians say about magic into account with what the movie makers say it is clear that there is magic, but it is based in science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    I've already said multiple times that they are right. The characters calling it magic are right too though. You are looking at it in a black and white manner with no room for gray area.

    They are right too because what they consider magic is different to what we do. Their "magic" is advance technology. There's plenty of room for gray area, magic may eventually come to MCU but as of right now, nothing magical as been shown.

    there wont be magic.you should know that as soon as Odin said "We are not Gods".if they are not divine beings then there is no magic in this universe,Mcu.

    GoodBoy6 there is a difference between opinion and Agenda... And we already know your opinion, you are incapable to add anything to the theme that you keep bumping with the same words...

    what???I dont know why is this even a debate anymore.this universe is based on Earth 199999 in which there is only some advanced science and only aliens.we should accept that.I admit,I was also arguing about this but not anymore.

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    Asgaard

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    @goodboy6 said:
    @asgaard said:
    @goodboy6 said:
    @m_man said:
    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: More matrix crap

    Magic isnt their word for science. They are two separate words, but they involve each other a lot. If you take what Thor and the other asgardians say about magic into account with what the movie makers say it is clear that there is magic, but it is based in science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    I've already said multiple times that they are right. The characters calling it magic are right too though. You are looking at it in a black and white manner with no room for gray area.

    They are right too because what they consider magic is different to what we do. Their "magic" is advance technology. There's plenty of room for gray area, magic may eventually come to MCU but as of right now, nothing magical as been shown.

    there wont be magic.you should know that as soon as Odin said "We are not Gods".if they are not divine beings then there is no magic in this universe,Mcu.

    GoodBoy6 there is a difference between opinion and Agenda... And we already know your opinion, you are incapable to add anything to the theme that you keep bumping with the same words...

    what???I dont know why is this even a debate anymore.this universe is based on Earth 199999 in which there is only some advanced science and only aliens.we should accept that.I admit,I was also arguing about this but not anymore.

    Cool then, now there is no reason for you to bump similar threads... Avoid that in Thor forums or a least do it when you add something new to the discussion...

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    #93  Edited By GoodBoy6

    @asgaard said:
    @goodboy6 said:
    @asgaard said:
    @goodboy6 said:
    @m_man said:
    @jayc1324 said:

    @m_man: More matrix crap

    Magic isnt their word for science. They are two separate words, but they involve each other a lot. If you take what Thor and the other asgardians say about magic into account with what the movie makers say it is clear that there is magic, but it is based in science.

    "In one scene Jane makes goo-goo eyes at Thor as he talks about all this apparent magic just being very advanced science."

    I've already said multiple times that they are right. The characters calling it magic are right too though. You are looking at it in a black and white manner with no room for gray area.

    They are right too because what they consider magic is different to what we do. Their "magic" is advance technology. There's plenty of room for gray area, magic may eventually come to MCU but as of right now, nothing magical as been shown.

    there wont be magic.you should know that as soon as Odin said "We are not Gods".if they are not divine beings then there is no magic in this universe,Mcu.

    GoodBoy6 there is a difference between opinion and Agenda... And we already know your opinion, you are incapable to add anything to the theme that you keep bumping with the same words...

    what???I dont know why is this even a debate anymore.this universe is based on Earth 199999 in which there is only some advanced science and only aliens.we should accept that.I admit,I was also arguing about this but not anymore.

    Cool then, now there is no reason for you to bump similar threads... Avoid that in Thor forums or a least do it when you add something new to the discussion...

    agreed.finally we are on the green branch :).

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    THORSON

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    ASGARDIANS ARE SO DEPOWERED. ODIN HAS SHOWN NOTHING, THOR HAS SHOWN NOTHING, WARRIORS 3 HAS DONE NOTHING, LOKI HAS DONE NOTHING MAGICAL, FRIGGA HAS DONE NOTHING. 3 MOVIES OF NOTHING.

    I'M TIRED OF DEFENDING MCU THOR

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    HaveAtThee

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    It seems they've taken a turn toward the mythological, with Hela proclaiming herself as the Goddess of Death and wondering what Thor was the god of.

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    @thorson said:

    ASGARDIANS ARE SO DEPOWERED. ODIN HAS SHOWN NOTHING, THOR HAS SHOWN NOTHING, WARRIORS 3 HAS DONE NOTHING, LOKI HAS DONE NOTHING MAGICAL, FRIGGA HAS DONE NOTHING. 3 MOVIES OF NOTHING.

    I'M TIRED OF DEFENDING MCU THOR

    yep, no mystical feel at all.

    DCEU seems more mystical.

    though Ragnarok looks cool.

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    HaveAtThee

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    DC definitely have no qualms about portraying Wonder Woman as a goddess. Doesn't make her any less relatable (hate that term).

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    rogueshadow

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    #100 rogueshadow  Moderator

    I want it to be magic, but it isn't.

    Idiot, yes it is. Magic is more fleshed out now.

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