Should Marvel's God Characters Be Vulnerable To Death?

#101 Posted by DEGRAAF (8344 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely there should be less death in comics!!!

Specially gods. I was unhappy with Sentry killing off gods (specially since he made it look like it was nothing) but now that i look back if you kept it to just that i would be ok with it. I even like the idea od a God Butcher but i do think it should be harder to kill a god and death should be used less in general.

I believe Gods should be like the movie "The One" If one dies then the others should gain the fallen one's power (until the fallen rises again) bc that's also the only beings that i think should be able to come back from the dead are the gods. Anything considered less then a god type should not be allowed to come back to life (unless that is their mutant ability)

#102 Posted by rondoudou (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@MuyJingo: well like i said it wod seeem god is a classfication of being in marvel tham anything else,sunce aevanced aliens qcknowldge thor as a divnity but not hulk

#103 Posted by MrNoFear (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Before anyone talks crap about Superman being indestructible they should just take a honest look at THOR. Just sayin'. THOR is a LEGIT GOD. WHO CAN'T DIE. How do you relate to that?

#104 Posted by crazed_h3ro (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorr is one of, if not, the best new Marvel Villain introduced. His back Story is just amazingly well written in the current issue. It made the gods look like jerks in the process which was very humorous.

#105 Posted by AmazingWebHead (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, but it should be VERY hard to kill them. Especially guys like Odin and Surtur.

#106 Posted by AmazingWebHead (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

@tensor said:

Marvel concept of god is a big joke ,hulk smack around thor all the time an reed richards is smarter than him.If it was me writing thor an other gods in marve,he l would be more on galactus level.

...Dude, this is the Hulk you're talking about. HULK! IS STRONGEST! THERE IS!!! Did you see how badly he trounced Onslaught?

#107 Posted by blackkitty (398 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course gods should be able to die. What is the purpose of a death god if they weren't. Or, look at the Olympians, they killed off the Titans to become the reining gods, but, if the Titans weren't able to be killed, this could never have been accomplished. Now, that being said, bringing gods back to life should also be easier, as they are a vital piece of the universe. Case in point, Isis had to assemble most of Osiris's body before he could be brought back to life. It's all about the mythos. making them unkillable would destroy many of the god myths.

Second, I have to agree. If Thor, Hercules, etc had no fear of dieing, they cease to be heroes as they are no longer risking their own lives to protect others.

#108 Posted by Deadcool (6901 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

@Naamah_Obyzouth said:

Yes

I hate how weak the gods are portrayed by Marvel. It literally sickens me.

It's just the same (or even worse) in DC.

But yeah,they should be immortal and powerful...like how Thor Is portrayed.I love it.But I also love how they are not invincible.

This guy!

#109 Posted by PowerHerc (86141 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@PowerHerc said:

Yes, Gods should be vulnerable to death but only by the most extremely powerful threats.

or by great stories

That is how a god SHOULD die

like a true man

You are right; "Or by great stories."

True.

#110 Posted by Rumble Man (11197 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: Skurge is a man,

rest his soul

their death should be an epic closer to the legacy that they build

#111 Posted by PowerHerc (86141 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man:

Though he was a villain, Skurge was a still a true warrior and a great character.

Walt Simonson gave him one of the best deaths in the history of comics before comic book death became so common and cheap.

#112 Posted by Rumble Man (11197 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc: I don't mind resurrections so long as they are written tastefully

#113 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4672 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc:

I still say this thread is a shot at Thor, and has been covered up with a title that technically references two gods in the article, you can't count Loki! Should marvel gods be vunerable to death or rather Should Thor be vunerable to death? I think Gods should be vunerable to death ,to answer the question, but only to high tier characters.

#114 Posted by PowerHerc (86141 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@PowerHerc: I don't mind resurrections so long as they are written tastefully

I agree. I don't like it when a poorly written story cheapens a well-conceived, well-told death.

@evilvegeta74 said:

@PowerHerc:

I still say this thread is a shot at Thor, and has been covered up with a title that technically references two gods in the article, you can't count Loki! Should marvel gods be vunerable to death or rather Should Thor be vunerable to death? I think Gods should be vunerable to death ,to answer the question, but only to high tier characters.

This thread could well be a shot at Thor, but when you're one of the greatest characters in comics people are going to take shots. I'm somewhat used to it.

We pretty much agree about when Marvel Gods should be vulnerable/susceptible to death.

#115 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4672 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@Rumble Man said:

@PowerHerc: I don't mind resurrections so long as they are written tastefully

I agree. I don't like it when a poorly written story cheapens a well-conceived, well-told death.

@evilvegeta74 said:

@PowerHerc:

I still say this thread is a shot at Thor, and has been covered up with a title that technically references two gods in the article, you can't count Loki! Should marvel gods be vunerable to death or rather Should Thor be vunerable to death? I think Gods should be vunerable to death ,to answer the question, but only to high tier characters.

This thread could well be a shot at Thor, but when you're one of the greatest characters in comics people are going to take shots. I'm somewhat used to it.

We pretty much agree about when Marvel Gods should be vulnerable/susceptible to death.

True, Um have you heard anything about Herc getting his Powers back?

#116 Posted by PowerHerc (86141 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

True, Um have you heard anything about Herc getting his Powers back?

No, I haven't heard a thing. Have you?

#117 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4672 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope, I will keep checking though! I'll let you know if I hear something!

#118 Posted by Perfect 10 (1610 posts) - - Show Bio

there are a lot differences between gods and people like hyperion. one they age differently (some choose an age at which to stop aging all together), their creation, what it takes to kill them, how they feed on and are connected to their worshipers, and how they dont truly die. this whole god butcher storyline might change this but no god has "died" died yet. the asgardians for example have died several times for they live in the cycle of ragnarok. loki, odin, thor, hercules have all "died" in one form or another and always come back. how is this different from other characters? well usually the non god characters are thought to be dead but actually aren't. winter solidier, jean grey (the first time), mockingbird and others were THOUGHT to be dead but in fact werent dead at all. yes there should be something powerful enough to kill a god, but it cant just be something as common as a gun, cancer or some sort and so far it that hasnt been the case. they dont die naturally so no dying of old age, they dont get sick. the only way a god can die is if they are killed. what could be more menacing or frightening then something or someone who could kill a god?

#119 Posted by THORSON (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

no. or else marvel would be another dc comic.

#120 Posted by PowerHerc (86141 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

Nope, I will keep checking though! I'll let you know if I hear something!

Me, too. Thanks.

#121 Posted by THORSON (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

@argusx said:

@cameron83 said:

@Naamah_Obyzouth said:

Yes

I hate how weak the gods are portrayed by Marvel. It literally sickens me.

It's just the same (or even worse) in DC.

But yeah,they should be immortal and powerful...like how Thor Is portrayed.I love it.But I also love how they are not invincible.

Can you explain that? In marvel the average god gets taken down by low superhumans but in DC the average god can smack around heralds so how is it worse in DC.

DC creates most of their characters too overpowered, even for a someone like batman is too overpowered. It can become boring if they are invincible all the time or if they win all the time. The outcomes become to predictable.

Somewhere Stan Lee states or someone else (i can't fully remember), he or they wanted every character to have a point to where they can all be defeated. EG B lists or C lists beating A list characters.

DC barely allows B lists to defeat an A list.

That's why probably why they struggle to make movies and can only stick with batman and superman. while marvel is stacked.

#122 Posted by Paracelsus (1933 posts) - - Show Bio

Why not? If supernatural entities like vampires of werewolves can be killed permanently then why not Gods?

Terry

#123 Edited by seekquaze (728 posts) - - Show Bio

@MuyJingo said:

Also there is omnipotence central , nexus of the gods, and it has records of all the gods that existed, so why arent super-mutants like magneto or jean grey in that library, or be allowed to access it?

Kind of the same thing as the Nazis deciding if someone is a Jew or not.

No, it is not. As I and I think several others have mentioned in this article gods are a specific class/species of being. This is proven by the scientific Eternals drawing a difference, the High Evolutionary draws a difference, guys like Desak and Gor going only after specific beings, the links gods have with the cultures that worship them, aliens drawing a clear difference, gods controlling the afterlife, etc. That is like saying Mephisto is some mutant.

And can there be one Internet conversation that does not have someone bring up the freaking Nazis. Marvel's gods are not nazis. Nazis and Jews are human. Marvel's gods are something else altogether.

#124 Posted by Naamah_Obyzouth (4750 posts) - - Show Bio

@GothamRed said:

@Naamah_Obyzouth: If you hate them being weak so much then why do you want them to be vulnerable to death?

Because Gods can in almost all cases and do at times die. But they do not die, in the same terms as humans do. Even the Titans in Greek mythology did not completely fall off the face of existence, they went to Tartarus... Which is also a primordial Titan as well. Like Gaia the (Earth) and Uranus (Sky) When Cronus (Time) castrated his father Uranus... he did not really die in human terms, he just became useless and lost his will to rule. He became the sky for real... They even make reference to him after his supposed "death"

What about "Death" the Grim Reaper... Should Death be immune to death?

And in many Mythologies Death is just another name for a God.

#125 Posted by w0nd (5058 posts) - - Show Bio

The god's being introduced in the first place screwed up the curve. People want gods to be invincible deity, but then you can't place Thor in regular avengers stories because it is beneath him, then people complain there is a lack of Thor. Thor has to be depowered otherwise he would be dealing with universal threats constantly, snapping his fingers and dealing with the problem on one page.

I don't mind him being alien (or what ever you want to call it) that people worshiped, because at that point in time his people were the strongest and thus worshiped as gods, but people evolved, mutated got powers what ever.

#126 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7166 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think of Asgardians, Olympians and their ilk as gods at all.

I think their powers simply had them taken as gods by archaic mortal men and women.

I like the life movie adaptation of the theme. Meaning, they are more akin to a multidimensional race not of our earth, extraterrestrials if you will with, insofar as the common man is concerned, godlike power.

#127 Posted by TheGodofThunder (689 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even see them as aliens as they have always been apart of earth and whatnot, just didn't live on earth. Hard to explain. Alien implies they came from somewhere else and yes, to us mortals, they did come from somewhere else, but we are thinking terrestrially. They have always been a part of earth dimension wise.

#128 Posted by DEADPOOL (2909 posts) - - Show Bio

Gods may be more special if mortals in comics weren't granted god-like power through science/mysticism. The gods are still incredibly powerful though and not to be taken lightly, and the example being used (Sentry/Void) is more of a unique case since he's so freakin' powerful; a vastly powerful psionic with reality-warping abilities which really puts him in the same league as cosmic entities (which are above Terran gods).

#129 Posted by seekquaze (728 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

I don't think of Asgardians, Olympians and their ilk as gods at all.

I think their powers simply had them taken as gods by archaic mortal men and women.

I like the life movie adaptation of the theme. Meaning, they are more akin to a multidimensional race not of our earth, extraterrestrials if you will with, insofar as the common man is concerned, godlike power.

Warren Ellis introduced the idea that Marvel's gods are only advanced aliens, but that theory has been dismissed. In the films they are some sort of advanced aliens, but virtually every writer for decades has treated them as being actual gods. The Eternals, advanced aliens and High Evolutionary have all referred to them as such and treated them differently than other lifeforms. The HE admits there are parts of them he does not understand. Galactus has called them gods. So in the loosest definition some of them may be considered aliens since not all of them are not originally from Earth they are not aliens like the Kree or Shi'ar. They are not a powerful race or being that was mistakenly worshipped as gods like Apocalypse. They are gods as classified in the Marvel Comics Universe.

#130 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7166 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

I don't think of Asgardians, Olympians and their ilk as gods at all.

I think their powers simply had them taken as gods by archaic mortal men and women.

I like the life movie adaptation of the theme. Meaning, they are more akin to a multidimensional race not of our earth, extraterrestrials if you will with, insofar as the common man is concerned, godlike power.

Warren Ellis introduced the idea that Marvel's gods are only advanced aliens, but that theory has been dismissed. In the films they are some sort of advanced aliens, but virtually every writer for decades has treated them as being actual gods. The Eternals, advanced aliens and High Evolutionary have all referred to them as such and treated them differently than other lifeforms. The HE admits there are parts of them he does not understand. Galactus has called them gods. So in the loosest definition some of them may be considered aliens since not all of them are not originally from Earth they are not aliens like the Kree or Shi'ar. They are not a powerful race or being that was mistakenly worshipped as gods like Apocalypse. They are gods as classified in the Marvel Comics Universe.

Technically, what you're saying is correct and sound. It's all well and good.

However, if you really think about it, the word "god" is just that ... a word. As far as I'm concerned, it's Marvel's term to denote the inter-dimensional race, with direct links to earth, known as "Asgardians" or "Olympians".

They are certainly not gods in the "omnipotent" sense of the term, nor are they gods in the "omniscient" sense. Ergo, they are not "gods". They are beings, replete with personalities and flaws, from a dimension or a realm (i.e. Asgard or Olympus if you will) that lies outside the confines of the Marvel U's planetary system (another dimension therein) - so neither are they 'aliens' in the traditional sense of the word I suppose. (Though really, it amounts to the same.)

Thor being the 'god of thunder' would suggest he is the deity from whom all lightening and thunder on earth originate ... so, who or what is Zeus then? (Not to mention, science begs to differ). This very notion is false, ergo once again, they are not gods per say.

They appear as gods to mortals, only because their lifespans are Immortal in comparison (though most have a finite beginning and many, a forecasted end as well), as are their powers. Call them gods, call them inter-dimensional/multidimensional beings or "aliens", it boils down to the same thing really.

Gladiator is an "alien" because he comes from a race (Strontians) inhabiting a planet part and parcel to the Marvel Universe. I get that distinction. But I'd be hard pressed to delineate the differences between so-called 'gods' (like Thor) and Gladiator insofar as 'godly' might is concerned. If their respective denominations come from the fact Thor hails from another Realm, where Gladiator a planet part of the same universe as Marvel earth, then as far as I'm concerned, the difference lies only in this flimsy distinction based in the origin of each respective species.

But yeah, we can call them 'gods'. Again, boils down to the same IMHO.

#131 Posted by rondoudou (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII: but "god " have does not mean omnipotent or omniscient, for most of human history in almost every language it did not mean that,also some atheists say even if there is just one god, we shouldn't call him god because he is not worthy of worship, he still would appear to us as "god" be cause in comparision he is more powerful than us ,so even an omnipotent being, so again call him god or "alien" it still boils down to something very simular to what you said

#132 Posted by seekquaze (728 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

However, if you really think about it, the word "god" is just that ... a word. As far as I'm concerned, it's Marvel's term to denote the inter-dimensional race, with direct links to earth, known as "Asgardians" or "Olympians".

But there are many inter-dimensional races, yet not all of them are called gods or claim to be gods. One can argue the frost giants or dwarves have ties to Earth, but they do not claim to be gods. So far beings like this there is obviously a difference.

@Super_SoldierXII said:

They are certainly not gods in the "omnipotent" sense of the term, nor are they gods in the "omniscient" sense. Ergo, they are not "gods". They are beings, replete with personalities and flaws, from a dimension or a realm (i.e. Asgard or Olympus if you will) that lies outside the confines of the Marvel U's planetary system (another dimension therein) - so neither are they 'aliens' in the traditional sense of the word I suppose. (Though really, it amounts to the same.)

Thor being the 'god of thunder' would suggest he is the deity from whom all lightening and thunder on earth originate ... so, who or what is Zeus then? (Not to mention, science begs to differ). This very notion is false, ergo once again, they are not gods per say.

In your first paragraph you are applying a monotheistic view of godhood. That view of godhood does not apply to pantheonic gods. Some would argue the abstract beings are closer to what we would call gods and rarely they are called that (though they traditionally acknowledge Thor and like's claims of godhood) yet Eternity is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. Your using a very limited definition of godhood that does not work with the real world let alone many fantasy settings.

The second paragraph might apply to the real world in certain mythologies and certain fantasy settings, but not in others. Marvel is one of those that it does not apply to therefore it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Thor is a god as far as Marvel is concerned.

@Super_SoldierXII said:

They appear as gods to mortals, only because their lifespans are Immortal in comparison (though most have a finite beginning and many, a forecasted end as well), as are their powers. Call them gods, call them inter-dimensional/multidimensional beings or "aliens", it boils down to the same thing really.

Gladiator is an "alien" because he comes from a race (Strontians) inhabiting a planet part and parcel to the Marvel Universe. I get that distinction. But I'd be hard pressed to delineate the differences between so-called 'gods' (like Thor) and Gladiator insofar as 'godly' might is concerned. If their respective denominations come from the fact Thor hails from another Realm, where Gladiator a planet part of the same universe as Marvel earth, then as far as I'm concerned, the difference lies only in this flimsy distinction based in the origin of each respective species.

But yeah, we can call them 'gods'. Again, boils down to the same IMHO.

I don't think so. Galactus is hardly anyone I would consider mortal yet he has referred to Thor as a god. Yes, one can argue they are a type of multidimensional alien. One can say a deer and a shark are both animals. They does little to help describe them since their differences are so great. The same with gods and other types of "aliens" if not more.

You mention Gladiator and the Strontians. Are the Strontians inherently magical? Do they run an afterlife? Do they defy attempts at science to understand them? Is there a metaphysical link between the Stronians and some other culture that if the Stronians fall the culture is weakened in some way or falls? If origin is the only difference why do the likes of Desak and Gor go after only gods and not other powerful beings? Surely, a rogue Stronian could do as much damage if not more than any god?

You are saying the only difference between gods and other types of aliens is point of origin. What I am saying is there is clearly far more than that.

#133 Posted by Pyrogram (43657 posts) - - Show Bio

Should Marvel's God Characters Be Vulnerable To Death? - Yes.

If not their would be no point having them in comics if you are not scared at-all they would die.

#134 Posted by seekquaze (728 posts) - - Show Bio

Were a number of posts from this post deleted or lost? I just return from a trip and a number of posts I know were here before are not here now.

#135 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (623 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes but with special situations needed.

Hulk and Sentry should NEVER be able to kill a god. Gods are essentually always magical beings and thus while Hulk or Sentry should be able to break every bone in their body, and basically turn them into quivering pools of flesh they should not be able to kill them.

Things like Gorr's weapon or other magical or godly weapons of course could bypass this as they are also magical and have an origin akin to the gods.

So I think Yes gods should be able to die, but only if fighting a fellow magical being or magically endowed being. Or a weapon of magical origin.

#136 Posted by rondoudou (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: i think they where "lost" in the upgrade

#137 Edited by New_World_Order (13893 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes.

#138 Posted by HaveAtThee (864 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Marvel Universe gods should only be vulnerable to death by those like them or more powerful (like Celestials or Skyfathers or more). Marvel and their writers are just atrocious when it comes to continuity and any kind of established rules dealing with their gods, or any of their incredibly powerful characters. Their powerset or omnipotence change at the whim of the writer and editor to serve a specific story.

#139 Posted by tupiaz (2258 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem is that people expects gods to be God which is not the case. Gods (the nordics anyway) can die. Baldr killed by Höðr (tricked by Loki). Being a god doesn't mean internal life in the nordic mythology all the worlds (Asgard, Midgard, Jötunheimr, Hel among others) is destroyed doing Ragnarök and the new world is created by Líf and Lífþrasir.

#140 Posted by rondoudou (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@perpetr8rmike: also sentry himself was actually an avatar of a cosmic entinty from another univserse

#141 Posted by Perpetr8rMike (623 posts) - - Show Bio

@perpetr8rmike: also sentry himself was actually an avatar of a cosmic entinty from another univserse

Thats in some versions I have heard many different versions.

#142 Posted by Arkadyred (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamdamage: No..Its bad writing...

Its more of a christian hating heathen Gods doctrine.

#143 Posted by Starbrander (153 posts) - - Show Bio

Asgardians can be killed.

#144 Posted by THORSON (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

depends on the god.

#145 Posted by VoraciousSouls (169 posts) - - Show Bio

In Norse mythology, Gods were only immortal in that they had incredibly long lives, they could be killed by a mortal, but they were all incredibly strong and tough to avoid that, they were all very talented fighters and superhuman, that's why they were considered "gods", not because they literally couldn't be killed.

In fact, in the Ragnarok, many of the Gods were prophesied to be killed, Thor was meant to be killed by the venom of jormungandr seven (iirc) steps after killing the world serpent.

Odin was to be swallowed and killed by fenrir the giant wolf.

So the real mythology behind the Gods is quite different than the invincible marvel versions.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.