i'm not saying among the fans.. but in recent comics and animations... is he being the biggest jobber is his class?

i personally think he is.. made by the writers.. and i don't like it.

Pretty much every powerhouse has been more "streamlined" and dumbed down since the days of Disassembled and House of M. It was part of the whole "let's make Marvel more cool and gritty and realistic!@" era of Bendis and Millar. Seeing as these guys were indie street-level writers handling major superhero properties, they needed to tailor the characters to suit their style of storytelling, hence the gradual disappearance of "deus ex machina" moments with characters.

@ssj_god: I think nearly every character goes through periods where they are the resident jobber. I think Wonder Man had through role for most of his career. Galactus was one throughout most of the nineties and early to mid 2000s. I think it only really hit Thor starting five or six years ago. It seemed he could do nothing right. In the Amadeus Cho Prince of Power mini he was Thor: God of Blunder. In Thor: The Deviant Saga he lost to the same guy twice without trying anything different. You had SIEGE where he played a very small role and got his butt kicked despite Asgard itself being under attack. He was sucker punched and koed with one blow several times so I don' think his appearances in Avengers titles did him any favors either. Matt Fraction wrote Thor as a selfish, gullible moron with only a couple of lackluster battles. The Hulk vs Thor dvd and Hulk: Let the Battle Begins were humiliating. Hulk fans who didn't care much for the character and usually cheered when he lost were starting to feel sorry for him. AvX was probable the worst where he constantly talked big, but when down the fastest compare to the likes of Red Hulk or Gladiator. A lot of time is may not even be the losing, but the way he lost. His battle with Emma was one long humiliation.

It seems to have changed one Aaron took over. In Thor's own book he started giving him some impressive battles and higher-end feats. I think the same with some of the Avengers titles where Thor has been shown to be a true peer of the other top-tiers and has shown to be a bit more intelligent in battle or impressive showing against Apocalypse and opening up a portal to kill one of the twins.

Every character is downgraded when their either participating with street levelers or are forced to face villains far weaker and less powerful then themselves due to belonging in an unsuitable team, Thor is not the biggest jobber out of mid-tier characters in comics but I cant say the same for his animation/movie counterpart.

In comics I'd say Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer jobs more.

Silver Surfer is a hardcore jobber. MMH is sort of a jobber too.

I think Thor's main problem is that his fans overrate him in their own minds.

I don't think it is that. I think part of it is trying to resolve the dilemma of his high showings in his solo book, what his powers can do in theory or are sometimes shown to do with his showings in team books or low appearances. For instance, Thor is supposed to be a highly experience warrior with a warriors reflexes. Why then did he get koed by his own hammer when someone grabbed his arm three times in a short span of time? If he is losing a pure physical fight why does he not try to fly up, charge up an extra strong lighting bolt, and unleash it to defeat his foe instead of constantly going back and forth? If he can survive dozen punches from an enraged Hulk why is it he sometimes is knocked out by a single punch from someone weaker?

He's definitely up there.

dude.. the guy was made from a real god... was told to have unrivaled strength.. was told strongest marvel hero till date by stan the man lee himself (remember.. hulk was already made by then).. and in his opening series the god of thunder showed such powers that now a days so called 'way over god level' characters will feel shame............ if after this... fans says now a days thor... who doges bullet in avengers movie.. brawls with hulk in every animation movie and ends up nothing more than his punching bag.. constantly gets beaten by the likes of iron man.. who shouldn't even hope to defeat thor in reality... is jobbing.. and you say fans overrate him in their own minds.. that really doesn't sound right

he is fine in his own adventures, on midgard , with a team he just fails everytime lol

@deaditegonzo:

and yes.. silver surfer is a big jobber aswell. if not jobbing.. he and thor are among few 'hero' characters who has the potential to become face of marvel.. and pose real challange to the champ of dc.. superman... but that face of marvel is occupied by the likes of spiderman, hulk, ironman, wolverine.. who doesn't even have the potential to stand up to superman (not taking cosmic spidey), and now a days i think hulk is powered by toon force aswell.. :D

And here we go again

hehe... this is thor forum .. and you can't deny the fact that.. the running downgradation of the character.. left this forum with just only these kind of comments.... what can you expect when the character just doesn't stand upto his own standard? :D

I remember an 80's issue of Avengers where, I believe the Masters of Evil were beating the crap out of several members including Cap, and the issue ends with thunder booming and lightning striking and all the bads look up in horror as you see the words "Have at thee!" and the issue ends. That's the kind of respect he should get from any and all writers and if they cannot adhere to that they should not be allowed to write him. I realize he'd most likely lose to Thanos or Galactus or even a totally enraged Hulk, but not to a group of earth-bound faux Avengers like he did in Seige. Aaron's run is putting the thunder back in Thor's swing.

@iaconpoint: to tell you the truth.. i do believe a madly enraged hulk will beat thor if thor brawls with him... which is the only thing thor doing with him recently.. but if not jobbing... and thor uses his other powers too (and mjolnir too).. he should be able to defeat hulk even in his enraged state...potentially i do see totally enraged hulk's strenght little above thor's... and hulk should be the only one among avengers.. who can hope to put up a serious challange to thor (ruling out surfer ofcourse, who totally goes to thor's class).. not the likes of ironman.... geez.. these days it seems like even logan can speedblitz thor.

Thankfully Aaron's title has rejuvinated Thor plenty. Such an excellent story.

@ssj_god: My argument of Hulk over Thor stems from the fact that Hulk's strength is only limited by his anger. If Thor throws down he could absolutely beat Hulk, but he needs to take care of the task at hard, not prolong the battle simply because he's enjoying the fight.

And I'm in agreement that the Surfer has been punked on the last couple of decades. He should be almost as feared as Thor. Unfortunately, I don't think Slott has the chops to return him to greatness.

I've never read any Slott work so I'm just hoping the Surfer title can be good. I love the Surfer as he has a huge history in Marvel of being one of the holy trinity of powerhouses (other two being Thor and Hulk of course). I remember for a long time Surfer and Thor were constantly compared in terms of overall power.

i totally know what you mean.. and that's the thing what i meant by brawling with a totally pissed of hulk.. but you know what. if thor gets out of the total brawling part.. he can defeat even enraged hulk... i'm not saying it'll happen everytime.. but.. thor simply can attack his magical blast from outside hulks range.. afterall.. hulk can't fly.. he won't be able to jump to every height.. and as a fact.. rage gives hulk unrivaled strength.. not indestructibility.. now i won't say it's undoubted.. but attackes like god blast.. should kill hulk.. not saying anything crazy like busting up planet.. or time traveling or going through warmhole like things.. but a regular battle.. thor should have the power (not just strength) to defeat madly enraged hulk...... and i think he is more intelligent than hulk too (not bruce).. but in a brawl and a hand to hand strength fight.. yes.. badly raged hulk > thor.

i believe.. it's like this (character potential wise.. not shown wise).. at base level..

thor strength = 10/10

hulk strength = 9/10

but.. say hulk is very very badly enraged, then

hulk strength = 11-14/10 (varies)

but.. as we know.. thor has other atributes too.. in most of which.. he really outclasses hulk big time.

not being biased.. this is my opinion..

but i'm ok if hulk takes victory few times.. but all the time.. making the thunder god look like 'puny god' is not ok :(

Oh you guys just do what I do wish for another fans favorite character to get jobbed. Its much more fun for instance Batman has been demoted to incompetent genius for Luthor to prove his superior intellect, Superman had his arm broken by Zod in hand to hand combat, Master Chief lost in a voting battle to Captain America, and a pet character of Bendis Victoria Hand is dead. All is well.

if THOR was like batman and won all time it would get boring and there would be no story. Heroes need to have struggles and problems within the story or it would be boring. Even if THOR is a jobber, THOR still remains one of the most powerful for a jobber.

@thorson: batman doesn't always win. But carry on.

He lost about maybe 5 times in 70+ years. wow!

@ssj_god:

Personally I'd say that Kalibak is the biggest jobber in this class. He is one scary assed guy with unspeakable power, savagery, and a great healing factor at his disposal. His Beta-Club is a fearsome weapon both up close and personal, as well as from long range. But he has had very few opportunities to showcase his formidability.

To the Odinson's credit, he wins a LOT more than Kalibak is allowed to. IMO.

Sticking to Marvel, it's between the Surfer and Thor.

@heraldofganthet: Its hard to think of Kalibak a serious threat when freakin Tawky Tawny gutted him like a trout.

Yes, Thor's God-blast is extremely powerful but it wouldn't kill the Hulk because Hulk is truly indestructible. Hulk has taken things far worse than a god blast. Hulk has no limits unlike Thor.

Well that's a lie.

@dum529001: Hulk was taken out by Iron Man in a falcon style punch.

@tigerkaya:

Its hard to think of Kalibak a serious threat when freakin Tawky Tawny gutted him like a trout.

Yeah that. *smh* As a huge Grant Morrison fan from way back, I STILL don't know what the hell he was thinking writing that into the Final Crisis. Tawky Tawny aside, he and Orion (and Lightray, and Mr Miracle,...) have had some slobberknockers in the New Gods related books though.

In the hands of a writer that truly appreciates all things Jack Kirby, he could be handled as the serious (and carnivorous) threat that he is. I'm pulling for him at least. I don't know why, but I just see the potential in him The big lug!;)

@heraldofganthet: Hey I hear ya. In truth I find the New Gods were far better in an alternate universe like the Earth One titles away from the New 52 titles. I'm really tired of all the New Gods save Darksied made to look like incompetence to prompt up Superman and the other DC heroes and Darksied being the only New God used. I would rather see more Highfather show a presence and threat as to why he's Darksied equal and opposite.

@tigerkaya:

Hey I hear ya. In truth I find the New Gods were far better in an alternate universe like the Earth One titles away from the New 52 titles. I'm really tired of all the New Gods save Darksied made to look like incompetence to prompt up Superman and the other DC heroes and Darksied being the only New God used. I would rather see more Highfather show a presence and threat as to why he's Darksied equal and opposite.

I agree. It's for this reason that I loved Walt Simonson's run on "Orion", the Dog of War's solo book from a couple of years back. He gets it. And while I don't mind the Fourth World interacting with the DCU proper, I too would love to see Highfather just completely lose his cool over something and tear s**t up in retaliation. But he is a peaceful warrior, so he tends to exemplify self-control. So we'll see. Hopefully they give Simonson his old job back (although ironically, Grant Morrison hit the ball out of the park with his characterization of the New Gods during his run on "JLA Vol.1". I don't know what happened in the Final Crisis though...)! :(

@heraldofganthet: Highfather losing his S*&T would be one of those rare special occasions which to me would be far better. Makes the build up of confrontation feel epic in proportion. To me I thought the best way for New Gods to go was in Justice League Beyond. Much better than Death of the New Gods.

@tigerkaya:

Highfather losing his S*&T would be one of those rare special occasions which to me would be far better. Makes the build up of confrontation feel epic in proportion. To me I thought the best way for New Gods to go was in Justice League Beyond. Much better than Death of the New Gods.

I like your style, sir. I've never even heard of Justice League Beyond before, so I'm going to have to research that one.

By the way, thanks for the "Follow"! I will return the favor posthaste!:)

@tigerkaya said:

@dum529001: Hulk was taken out by Iron Man in a falcon style punch.

I never said Hulk couldn't be knocked out, I only said Hulk can't be killed and in the end his power is limitless. Ironman's power can rise to Hulk/Thor levels for a few seconds. Ironman has done stuff like this with Count Nefaria as well.

He probably is these days.

@deaditegonzo: Darkseid is the king of the jobbers

I just think he's underrated sometimes.

He has problems with Angelica, Magneto, Air-Walker, Firelord, the Hulk, Gladiator, Rulk, Juggernaut, Rachel, the Sentry, She-Hulk....you name it most bricks give Thor a major problem, maybe its Thor's fighting style?

no I think just bad writing.

Film & cartoons depict him has a huge jobber

@uugieboogie: He was badass in EMH though.

That was it & that lasted what? 2 seasons.

just has to find the right writer is all. Any character will shine under the right light.

Thor just needs a writer worthy to tell his story.

Not some PC writer just a Thor writer.

So much to work with why is it so hard?

I mean Odin alone screams story after story , then you put his sons in the mix and you get epic tales that lasted the ages.

Toss in some swag with Balder and you get Thor and Loki picking on sparkle boy , I mean how hard is this stuff?

Apparently for some it's the equivalent of mounting a mission to Mars from their basement... all but impossible and entirely beyond their reach.

there was this

While not in Thor's power class, one of the biggest jobbers over the years has been Hank Pym. He was frequently the first Avenger knocked out by whatever villain they were facing. Like when he was knocked out by a pencil. Yep, a pencil. The guy who can grow to the size of abstract cosmic entities, who can lift skyscrappers and one of the smartest men in marvel is bested by a yellow number 2. Has Thor ever been beaten that easily?

not at all

If you honestly look at how he's being treated these days, yes, he's very well approaching it.