You know in Thunderbolts, Satana was so eager and pleased to see that Moonstone was on her team, well her welcome was really quite... friendly. So friendly that I think Jeff Parker tweeted that word balloons had to cover where her hands were hugging Moonstone. She by the way if things sound confusing, had embraced Moonstone from behind in embrace. Just a hug. Surprise hug. I didn't know this when I was reading it, to me it just made things look more inappropriate lol but... hey, maybe they should have had that here? Big word balloons cover parts. I am sure that would not have made it even more blatant..
Brutally Honest: What's Up With Naked Thor?!
" @Emerald Dragonfly said:<3" @queenfrost_: Then I pity you and your brother. This kind of stuff IS NOT NORMAL.DAMN IT ALL, there were times when ones used to write great stories WITHOUT ANY ASKHDKLASHDKASHD LIKE THAT and others used to read them and smile. "I agree. These heathens. How dare they. Pity those un-normals!! There use to be a time, when I could read a comic without having to see the women, colors, young and old people.If I wanted reality I would leave my fort at go outside.Not in my comics thanks!"
" @Multiverse said:
" @hitechlolife said:What's more human than getting naked with someone you love? "
"I don't see what the big deal is. Inf fact it's a more natural display of sexuality than things like Star Saphire's crystal thong. "I just thought this was kind of funny. Thor and Sif are supposed to be deities. Star Sapphire gets her powers from aliens. From a human perspective, there isn't really anything natural in either example. "
I would tend to agree with the idea that nothing is more human than nakedness. My point regarding the Thor and Sif example is that neither of them are human. One could ask, what's more Asgardian than getting naked with someone you love? For the record, if i were drawing a scene like the one between Thor and Sif or a similar one between Hal and Carol I would go for full frontal nudity from both characters.
You know, ratings aren't just for kids. I'm 22, and I don't want to see nudity and innuendo in my comics (OR graphic violence, before someone starts the tired argument that I think gore is okay but hate nudity). Why are some people so upset by the fact that some of us simply don't want too read that stuff? Most people here who are against such content in their comics stated their case calmly and with out malice (except Emerald Dragonfly. You could stand to calm down a little, my friend) and were met with hostility and mocking. Are we not entitled to our own opinions? Should we all be forced to read MAX comics now? Thank you to all those with differing opinions that nevertheless respect mine and others like it.
That's not a bad topic for discussion.
The major companies probably should meet together and try to make an agreement on a kind of rating system they all would follow.
As good as it sounds, I'm still very iffy on it. The other mediums all go through certain hoops to get published. Video games have to be licensed by the console creators, my knowledge of tv and movies is pretty lacking, but I believe they're required to go through similar hoops as well to see the light of day.
However, to my knowledge, normal print books don't go through a rating system like those mediums do, and never have. But that's due to their nature. They don't need to get broadcasted or accessed from a third party, so they're free from any kind of restrictions those other mediums get.
Ugh, I have no clue what should be done.
About the page itself, I don't think it's bad at all. It seems pretty tactful in what it's conveying.
Either way, we should be worried about some idiot finding that comic and making a big fuss about it like so many other things in the past. Hopefully it doesn't happen.
Brutally Honest: What's up with the rating system?
If the comic book industry include anything strong sexual or violent content, they should put the correct ratings. In that way, the readers will know who are these comic books for. Plus, they don't have to skim through pages to see if there is anything wrong with the picture. If I had a kid, I wouldn't want him or her to read comic books with mature content. Same thing goes for Hollywood. They bring trailers to TV and say the ratings or post them in newspapers. But T+ for the first issue of The Mighty Thor which has nude content? Wow.
Now that I think about it, what kind of 13 year old would want to read a comic about a super hero going through erectile dysfunction and the insecurities our culture drags with it? That alone kinda moves it into more mature territory, don't you think?
Babs might be onto something. It's not the sex or nudity, because it's still done in good taste, but it's the context that makes it really iffy. I haven't read the comic, but just establishing this scene makes it apparently a subplot to the entire story for the time being.
To all the people who think Babs or anyone else is making a knee jerk reaction to some innocuous nudity (which is itself a knee jerk reaction, go figure), really look at the page and think about what's being conveyed here. I think it's a subject for an older age range not because it deals with sex, but because it deals with an issue that affects grown adults, not hormonal teenagers.
It's possible that I don't remember everything that's in TLH. Why I like it is that, while those things are included, they are not illustrated graphically, or detailed. Also, maybe I shouldn't have used the word 'clean.' It's not a happy fairy tale, it's a murder. But that type of violence isn't as offensive to me.
" @Vance Astro said:I agree with your point I just didn't think those comparisons worked." @FadeToBlackBolt said:My point is that society has its priorities skewed. Sex is something to hide people from, but extreme violence is ok. "" This annoys me to be honest. It's OK to show Thor beating the monsters to death with a hammer, but not for Sif to kind of ask why their sex life has fizzled? The same thing with Watchmen, people were up in arms about Manhattan's junk littering the scene, but were fine with Ozymandias committing Genocide and having it be a good thing. "In what way is beating up monsters a fair comparison to Thor and Sif talking about their sex life...same question with your Watchmen reference..in what way are those two things even comparable? How is a fake genocide comparable to ACTUALLY seeing a characters member in a movie? I don't understand that... "
I totally agree. I myself live in Belgium, Europe, and out here we have always viewed the American priority list of what's bad for your children and what isn't as a bit skewed. Somehow, most Americans believe that exposing your children to harsh violence is better than having them hear a swearing word or having them read a sexually explicit comic book panel. That's just weird to most of us Europeans. I'd rather have my 13 year old kid reading something like that scene in The Mighty Thor, than some of the very explicit violent scenes in several T+ comic books. Besides, if your kid is a 13 year old, I'm pretty sure they should already know pretty much everything there is to know about sexual interaction between human beings via their parents, and, to a lesser extent, their teachers at school. If not, internet will educate them on this, and not for the better.It just feels wrong, it's like I were to say to my kid: when you grow up, it's okay to go rip someone's head off, as long as you don't do the nasty with a woman you may or may not love. Honestly, I'd rather have my 16 year old have sex with their boy/girlfriend whom they have a steady relationship with and whom they love, than have him/her be in physical fights with other kids. "I don't think we can call the violence in a T+ RATED comic "extreme".Don't get me wrong.I agree with your point but seeing Thor beat the hell out of a fictional monster..even if he mutilates and there's blood and guts like when Sentry ripped Ares in half.It's fantasy.The reason that parents get so up in arms about talk of sex and showings of nudity in popular media is because they don't want their children to think sex at a young age is something they should be having or talking about with peers of the opposite sex so they don't want them to see what the characters do and imitate.The same with swearing.People don't want their kids to swear therefore they don't want them to hear or read swearing so they don't pick it up or think it's acceptable language.As you can see violence only becomes an issue when it's something that an impressionable person can pick up.Like how how violent video games are attacked.You see there was so much outrage for games like Mortal Kombat and GTA where you can kill and mutilate human beings but in a game that is just as violent like Halo or Resident Evil that is just as violent they don't receive the same attention when you're killing Zombies,Monsters and Aliens.So I don't think that parents are saying "It's ok to rip someone's head off as long as you don't do the nasty with a woman" I think it's more thinking it's less likely someone is going to imitate what they saw Thor do to a Frost Giant or Juggernaut, or Surtur than it is to imitate what he's doing with Sif.
I ask again, what 13 year old is gonna understand the insecurities and frustration ED can give to a guy? It doesn't matter if the kids know what sex is or have had it already, or how much tact the creative team has employed to convey it, this is still a subject that goes way over their heads at that age.
That's the only racy thing in the book.The fact is that most books are for an older audience but they shoot for a lower rating so that they can get more people have access to the book and can purchase it.I agree that a 13 year old isn't going to understand much about "ED" but to change the rating of a book because of one scene would be absurd.Unless the nudity was actual and you could see all of Thor and Sif's parts and\or they used inappropriate language.
" @bringdeath: It's not the portaryal, it's the subject.I ask again, what 13 year old is gonna understand the insecurities and frustration ED can give to a guy? It doesn't matter if the kids know what sex is or have had it already, or how much tact the creative team has employed to convey it, this is still a subject that goes way over their heads at that age. "
Agreed...but I'm going to put my 2 cents in anyway...
" I feel like jumping into this would be like jumping into the firepit with oil slathered over my body--it's a LOSE LOSE situation either way. "
When it comes to Thor, I've always seen him as a super hero who is not "incredibly" popular among young people. Yes, some young people may read Thor, but I've always thought that "most" young people would be turned off by the language that Thor uses. On a further note, though, if this is such a problem, people should really be looking into heroes and villains as a whole, not just Thor. In one of the Dark Avengers issues you have Bullseye and Moonstone going at it on a table. Not only that but you have SPIDER-MAN SLEEPING AROUND WITH ALL THESE WOMEN!!!!! There's a hero that many young people look up to! What's that teaching the youth of today? I think this issue has been around for a while, it just took a scene like this to bring it to light. Alas, though, it is rated T+ book so if you don't want your kid to read things like that BE A PARENT and look through the issue, don't just assume the world is something like Mayberry or Pleasantville.
@Babs You're overreacting. You find way just as "graphic" representations of sex in any Junior High and High School English class. This is no big deal and what they're saying is not explicit, it's implicit.
" @NeoMantis said:Agreed." The only shocking thing about this is that anybody could be shocked by it.Sheltering your children to the point where they are not aware of the fundamentals of human reproduction at age 16 is not "responsible parenting". "Damn straight.Pretty lame issue for a return of the "Brutally Honest" videos. "
I tend to think over-zealous supervision of censorship for the purposes of protecting "children" is usually more tied to personal preference than anything else. I remember when two of the girls from Glee participated in a GQ photoshoot where they were scantily clad and suddenly everyone was blabbing on about how they're suddenly a bad example to children. What kind of kid reads GQ?
It's not the 40's anymore, a boy doesn't skip down the block to buy Lucky Strikes for his mom and toss an extra dime in for a comic. The audience has changed, the medium has shifted, and sex as well as discussion of sex is something that has existed in storytelling for thousands of years.
I couldn't see the dialogue in the picture, thankfully I have the comic and I think if this were a film it could still fall under a PG-13 rating. I mean, they're naked but they're talking only about Thor's glowing wound....it's hardly all that risque.
I think censorship is horrible. Teens are... ( NEWS FLASH )HAVING SEX! I don't think Marvel did anything wrong, I think parents who find this offensive are living in a delusional world. With all the violence in comics, a lil nookie isn't that serious. Not like they drew an erect penis! I'm so over these uptight people. The real world is FAR worse then anything drawn in a comic book! If you want to shelter your child, well they will rebel and wind up a junkie on 16 and pregnant! Don't hide things from kids, not saying show them absurd things either, find a balance. Talk to YOUR KIDS! That's a crazy IDEA but it works! Oy people need to get a grip, it's 2011, not 1950!
Are you guys for real? What is wrong with this? A TEEN is not a kid , Americans and their puritanism .... even then this is T+ right? For 16 years and up right? This is ok by then ... heck I would even let my 16 year old (if I had one) to read stuff like Heavy Metal for crying out loud.
How the nudity is handled here is not that graphical , I mean do you see her nipples? Any sexual organ being depicted?
Also to those making a big deal about Thor's inability to copulate , it says right there he couldnt because he has been wounded , I would like to see you perform when wounded .... sigh
But what would I expect from a society that deemed necessary to sensor Sailor Moon transformations from tv for example? Also you worry that a kid would see Thor's penis? Anyone can just look down when taking a shower ..... so in the end all I am saying that it is ridiculous to make such a fuss about this.
Well, what I would like to know is who are the children that are being corrupted or over-exposed to these things and has it really had any sort of damage on them? People act as though children/teens are somehow being corrupted or harmed when they see these things and yet I haven't found a single adult who can reflect on something like this and consider it to be destructive to who they were then or are now.
When I was 6 I saw Top Gun, Kelly McGillis and Tom Cruise in compromising, nude (though not explicit) positions merely caused momentary curiosity and confusion and that was the end of that. No subsequent nightmares or perversions. When I was 16, I saw Nip/Tuck and saw quite a bit of Mcnamara thrusting. Did I rush into promiscuity or hide my head in shame? Nope. I was fine.
Also, keep in mind, we're talking about comics...you know where some of the popular guys like say Wolverine have razor sharp claws they enjoy jabbing into people? The same medium where people regularly hit each other's faces and are armed with all sorts of weaponry. A medium where we've seen people killed? Even in the 60's when the beloved Gwen Stacy got her neck snapped...where were the legions of people opposed to that? But a junkless, obscured Thor is apparently offensive?
" Are you guys for real? What is wrong with this? A TEEN is not a kid , Americans and their puritanism .... even then this is T+ right? For 16 years and up right? This is ok by then ... heck I would even let my 16 year old (if I had one) to read stuff like Heavy Metal for crying out loud.In Mexico we get the sex ed at 12 years old (the federal legal age of consent) , also how the nudity is handled here is not that graphical , I mean do you see her nipples? Any sexual organ being depicted?Also to those making a big deal about Thors inability to copulate , it says right there he couldnt because he has been wounded , I would like to see you perform when wounded .... sighBut what would I expect from a society that deemed necessary to sensor Sailor Moon transformations from tv for example? Also you worry that a kid would see Thor's penis? Anyone can just look down when taking a shower ..... so in the end all I am saying that it is ridiculous to make such a fuss about this. "Well with sentences like that I'm certain this post was made by a kid. At least I hope that's the case.
Maybe I missed this along the way and I don't know if it makes a difference to anyone, but (at least in Norse mythology) Thor and Sif were married. Is it so wrong to show a husband and wife having a conversation in their marital bed about if he still finds her attractive or not?
I'm a lifelong reader of comics, and a single Father of two boys.
I would not have a problem letting my son read this book, however, I screen these kinds of things before I just hand them on. My boys are precocious, and have been watching Batman and Superman cartoons and Justice League (both incarnations) for a long while now. For my money, those ratings are a guideline, they clue me in as to what "might" be in there. Let's face it, Kids are learning more about sex in today's "Health" classes than they are from this kind of thing in a comic book. If they ask questions, that's only to the good I say. I agree with Babs that the content of that discussion, framed by the artistic nudity, is of very mature content.
That said, I'd rather have my kids ask me what all that means, "Well, Son, Thor and Sif are married, and sensuality is an important part of a committed relationship, and Sif is concerned Thor just isn't into her that way anymore." As opposed to answering, "Daddy, what's Male Enhancement?" Every 10 minutes during a Superbowl game. As parents, we need to have some notion of what our kids are reading. T+ is about right, Sex and Violence, for example, very M...as it is also about folks that are turned on by Violence, which is a much pricklier discussion for Dad. No pun intended.
@sEsposito7: It's possible that I don't remember everything that's in TLH. Why I like it is that, while those things are included, they are not illustrated graphically, or detailed. Also, maybe I shouldn't have used the word 'clean.' It's not a happy fairy tale, it's a murder. But that type of violence isn't as offensive to me.
1. I am not attempting to cricize your comic book reading choices as what you read is up to you.
2. My thought on why nudity gets a stronger reaction from people than violence relates to TV. When watching nudity on TV, even if it is censored, someone was probably actually naked. When watching someone get killed on TV no actual person died. In summary, nudity can seem more "real" than violence.
3. Showing the gruesomeness of violence can teach important lessons. Specifically that violence causes real pain and suffering to people. That is less clear if all one sees is the smoke coming from a criminal's gun when they shoot someone.
I think my problem with it is the temptation. If you read about a gruesome murder, you're probably not going to go kill someone. But if you read about some sort of sexual theme, the thoughts are probably going to be there.
Also, I agree with you about the TV reaction, and how "real" (or not) it seems.
Thus with that in mind I honestly have less issues with that scene of Thor and Sif, than lets say the scene of Sentry ripping Ares in half during Siege.
@FadeToBlackBolt: Yes I saw the movie. It's indeed pretty accurate for this point, hadn't thought of it.
I've been reading this page for over a year now and 'till now I haven't post any comment (I wasn't even signed up in Whiskey Media), but this topic really touched me.
I'm from Spain, and here we're allways making fun about how you americans have to rate absolutley everything and how that's destroying the movie industry, turning good movies into soft shit just because it HAS TO BE PG13. Seriously, I'm surprised (in the worst way) to see that even comic fans are up to this kind of "censor" behavior that the Parent Associations made. Seriously, I don't want my comics to start beeing the same out-of-guts shit their movie adaptations (or any other action movie in the past 12 or so years) are right now. There isn't even a nipple in that page and you're all like "Oh crap, children can see tits in comics, what are we gonna do....".
Shame on you guys, I'm really dissapointed.
(sorry for my bad english, I tried my best, I hope you can understand me at least)
" Even for 13 year olds this is absolutely acceptable. In fact I would encourage more of this sort of thing for young readers. I mean why is it dangerous to show this, when it's fine to have violence in every third panel? "I agree. The Sentry ripped Aries in half like he was used toilet tissue but it's a crime to show two lovers((mind you who aren't even engaged in sex in the current scene)). Far be it from me to go into a full rant but I believe that's when someone needs to exercise some parenting skills.
" Now that I think about it, what kind of 13 year old would want to read a comic about a super hero going through erectile dysfunction and the insecurities our culture drags with it? That alone kinda moves it into more mature territory, don't you think?Babs might be onto something. It's not the sex or nudity, because it's still done in good taste, but it's the context that makes it really iffy. I haven't read the comic, but just establishing this scene makes it apparently a subplot to the entire story for the time being.To all the people who think Babs or anyone else is making a knee jerk reaction to some innocuous nudity (which is itself a knee jerk reaction, go figure), really look at the page and think about what's being conveyed here. I think it's a subject for an older age range not because it deals with sex, but because it deals with an issue that affects grown adults, not hormonal teenagers. "I really tried to express this in the video and the post that it goes beyond them being nude. But I guess some people are just going to read/see/hear what they want to and ignore my argument anyway.
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