Brutally Honest: What's Up With Naked Thor?!

#51 Posted by Out_of_Space (720 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe Sara is right.

#52 Edited by ArtisticNeedham (2234 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC:   Thanks.  Monkey Boy has a page on comicvine if you want to check out more about him/his comic.   and its on sale at cafepress.
I got issue #1 of Thor the Mighty, but I don't have unlimited funds, so I couldn't keep up buy that and what I was already buying, so I dropped it in hopes of buying the trades.  But I haven't done that yet.  So sad it was canceled.  My brother was buying it too.  It seemed really good.
Wasn't the new Flash an all ages comic?  or just the first issue?
#53 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2194 posts) - - Show Bio

I saw nothing wrong with that scene.  It falls in line with things from other comics with similar ratings.

#54 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7595 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it would be more of a concern if it were to be alluded to that he had left her a smoldering ruin, but yeah this is a tight line to walk sometimes.  

#55 Posted by Doctor Damn (740 posts) - - Show Bio

Teen plus is fine for suggestive or blatant sexual themes, IMO. I remember reading arguably worse in High School. I couldn't tell you what, but there was a lot of talk of bosoms and stirring in English class.

#56 Posted by bingbangboom (746 posts) - - Show Bio

This is silly, basically T+ is equal to a PG-13 movie that allows for things including some nudity. It is nothing that is obscene or disgusting but just rather realistic. Art looked good too so don't really know what the big deal is.


It is stuff like this with people complaining that holds the medium back from being treated in the same fashion as movies or novels. Just because there is sex or nudity doesn't make it mature. Especially since most books have violence but we never call into question if all things that have violence should be mature.
#57 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

What's wrong with nudity?

#58 Posted by mikeisonfire (11 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you're looking too much into this. That did not look 'that' graphic nor was the dialog demeaning, vulgar, or explicit. You've got to remember that Thor is based off of Greek mythology, which in itself can be considered pretty graphic, gory, and vulgar.
I am a parent myself, and if my teenage daughter were to read this, I would be alarmed or up-in-arms about it.

#59 Posted by Jimbo (28 posts) - - Show Bio

Do they teach Shakespeare in US schools?  It's like hardcore pornography compared to this.

#60 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio
@ASLAN186 said:
" What bothers me is not the nudity or the dialogue itself, but rather the implied use of sex as a metaphor for love. Having this scene take place in the bedroom serves to represent the intimate nature of their relationship. However, what it also does is reinforce the idea that the intimacy of their relationship comes exclusively from engaging in sexual activity , and what can happen is an impressionable mind can develop the association that sex = love. While it is true that sex is perhaps the greatest expression of love, the converse is not true. So what can ultimately happen is people going through life with idea that love comes from sex and not the other way around. IE "I should have sex with this person so they will love me." Because the stereotype of personal intimacy is so often portrayed in media through the device of sexual intercourse as we develop it is easy to get the idea that intimacy can ONLY be achieved by sex, which leads to unhealthy relationships. "
This is a very good and well argued point! Love has been increasingly portrayed as a functionary of sex for years and years and popular media is to blame, without a doubt. There's virtually no responsibilities that the media is held to, and children and young adults end up taking the brunt of it. There was a psychological study done last year that I read about in Science Magazine where the researchers polled a group of college and high school students from different age groups with questions pertaining to sex and love. The results were alarming in that an overwhelming majority of the younger participants were under the impression that love was a byproduct of sex. I can't seem to find a link to the article, or else I would post it here...
#61 Posted by SC (12729 posts) - - Show Bio
@Primmaster64 said:
" What's wrong with nudity? "

Its not violent enough. 

Human body = impure and unclean, so its time to start up the killing machine = )

@ArtisticNeedham:  Thank you for the info on Monkey Boy! I will check that now! Good for you as well, thats awesome! 
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#62 Posted by GothamRed (2562 posts) - - Show Bio

to be honest i've never looked at the rating, and even though it has pictures it's only as explicit as your mind makes it, if it makes you feel better, imagine Sif saying it really fast and with no emotions, could work

#63 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

 

I can think of worse things in comics than Thor having trouble in the sack.

 

 

Can't remember the rating on this one though.

 

@InnerVenom123 said:

"ROFL! Thor's hammer is just shooting sparks tonight, I see? "


Hey it happens to the best of us. Although it's shocking Sif isn't doing anything for him.

Must be something on his mind.

#64 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio

I want more sexual themes in T rated comics.I want Greek Myth level filth going on.Stuff that would make Dionysus blush.

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#65 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"Thor should be naked in every comic. "


 
#66 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@isaac_clarke said:
" @Vance Astro said:
"Thor should be naked in every comic. "


"
Thor should start every comic off in the nude standing at the highest point in Asgard.
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#67 Posted by ImperiousRix (1069 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's probably a bit much for the T+ rating, but then again it is just ONE scene, and the content is very much implied.  Does that mean the entire comic should be rated Mature for a single instance like this?  I'm not so sure.


I think it's the problem with film ratings and game ratings in the like.  There are films with content that skirt two different ratings, and it kind of arrives at the issue of how MUCH is in the film or the extent that determines the rating.

And it isn't as if comics rated for younger audiences don't portray explicit violence.  Hob Goblin was just decapitated (his killer, Phil Urich, holding his decapitated head and talking to it) in an issue of Amazing Spider-Man, the  flagship of Marvel publishing, and it did not draw a Mature rating.
#68 Posted by Eyz (3095 posts) - - Show Bio
@isaac_clarke said:
"

 

I can think of worse things in comics than Thor having trouble in the sack.

 

 

Can't remember the rating on this one though.

 

@InnerVenom123 said:

"ROFL! Thor's hammer is just shooting sparks tonight, I see? "


Hey it happens to the best of us. Although it's shocking Sif isn't doing anything for him.

Must be something on his mind.

"
That was a simple "T" for the whole Agent X series like most Udon/Gail Simone Deadpool!
#69 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"Thor should start every comic off in the nude standing at the highest point in Asgard. "



 
#70 Posted by davidnappy (17 posts) - - Show Bio


Teen + I think is fine for this.  It's a comic based on a norse god with two grown adults mentioning that they didn't have sex.  I think it is more harmful to pretend that sex doesn't happen or that it's a bad or improper thing.  We have these bubbles we put our children in that eventually do more harm than good. 

#71 Posted by Xenozoic Shaman (410 posts) - - Show Bio

Whether or not you're being too PC or not, I think it's great that you're brave enough to raise the question.  It's worth re-evaluating our position on these things now and then, as we tend to drift a little over time.


I remember reading Wolverine and Jubilee #3, and seeing the panels where Logan chopped off a man's head.  They didn't show much in the way of blood or gore, but it was rated T+.  This seemed like a fair compromise given the rating.  With regards to this issue of Thor, I must say that it's somewhat on the edge, and possibly a little beyond the T+ rating.  Ratings-wise, I don't think either of these on their own are so terrible, but combined, they have more force.  Still, they could do far worse.  They did cover them where it counts, and the dialog would probably go over many kids heads.  (Kids being younger than the teen rating.)

Also, Tony's "Little Thor" comment was funny. ^_^  
#72 Posted by danhimself (22313 posts) - - Show Bio

they didn't show anything but his chest...yeah they implied that they've had sex but how is that inappropriate for the 16 and up crowd?

#73 Edited by Wattup (648 posts) - - Show Bio

This is why I read Tiny Titans.

#74 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
@isaac_clarke said:
" @Vance Astro said:
"Thor should start every comic off in the nude standing at the highest point in Asgard. "



"

AWESOME

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#75 Posted by Multiverse (276 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know whether comic books need a universal rating system or not. I tend to think that the problem with rating systems is they tend to focus more on age level than on content. I would prefer that rating systems specify in some way the amount of nudity, sex, violence, and vulgar language in a comic book. Obviously, children could seek out comics specifically because of their content but, as has been pointed out, it is the job of parents to decide what they want their children. People have different standards of what they consider appropriate and I think focusing on content rather than age might make it easier for people to make choices about what to read.
#76 Edited by Xenozoic Shaman (410 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else notice how those panels would seem somewhat Conan-like if they colored Thor's hair black and we ignored the speech balloons?

#77 Posted by Om1kron (1170 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm all for this, kids are bad asses anyway. Why try to shelter them in some kind of innocence shell when we know that doesn't exist. 


I love comic books that read like a movie you would see on tv or such. no different than live action wonder woman running around like a hooker in neon tights trying to tie you up in ropes.   
#78 Posted by Sobe Cin (599 posts) - - Show Bio

Devil's advocate here. So here is my problem with all of this. If we are wanting to hide nudity and other subject matters to teenagers because they are only 16- then why do we allow them to drive cars and have jobs. Parents want their children to be adults by 16, but when it comes to nudity they are too young. This a double standard. I'm in my thirties and I don't have kids, but even when I was that age I was expected to be an adult, yet I was not allowed to participate in adult things. How can you expect a child to grow up if you shield them in one aspect and push them out the door expecting to fend for themselves.

#79 Posted by SolthesunGod (278 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really think it's necessary for teens to find out about Thor's erectile dysfunction but.....at least the art was beautiful.

P.S More videos I really enjoy them. I don't have any friends into comic books love the video discussions of recent issues and stories keep them up please and more frequent too!

#80 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm also assuming little kids will be looking to buy Thor comics based on the new movie. Some little kid could come into the CBS, see oh a new Thor #1 issue, and buy it. I wouldnt want my little brother to read that. It doesn't bother me personally, but i'm 19.

#81 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

Its for 16 years and older. Its perfectely fine.

#82 Posted by DoctorTrips (127 posts) - - Show Bio

Naked Thor really isn't a big deal, neither is naked Thor and Sif having a saucy metaphorical conversation about being 'into her'. Teenagers today see far more worse things on television and the internet (such as Degrassi, Secret Life of an American Teenager, and five thousand other things) that address sex in a very open straight-forward manner. Rating or no teens don't need to be forewarned about something so, honestly, tame to what everyone usually sees.

I think the main point of contention would be that Thor is a mainstream character, but really that shouldn't make any difference. Teenagers have read and seen Watchmen, which had a lot of nakedness in it, and there wasn't a big fuss (from what I could tell). I also didn't see a big hubub about that scene in Teen Titans a few years back where Ravager was completely naked and trying to seduce Tim Drake - and they're in a title called Teen Titans. Even though Tim should be in his mid twenties if it wasn't for the stupid sliding timescale. But I digress.

I'm sure there was a point in there somewhere but I lost my train of thought...

#83 Posted by Nasar7 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's fine. The "do I not cause you to stir" bit is corny wordplay but otherwise it's pretty tasteful, art included.

#84 Edited by Xenozoic Shaman (410 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

" Its for 16 years and older. Its perfectely fine. "

Isn't teen 13-19?  (T+ rating)  I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's worth clarifying the exact minimum age of the book, as many consider those years of difference as somewhat dramatic when it comes to the number of changes a teenager can go through.  Just curious as to the exact age minimum they're referring to.  The way it was worded in the article made me wonder if that 16+ thing was Marvel's system or the new DC one.
#85 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio

What's shown in this comic is pretty tame to be honest.It's not going to change anyone's life.It should definitely be teen.

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#86 Posted by King Quisling (1980 posts) - - Show Bio

What wasn't up with naked Thor?!?!
#87 Posted by jloneblackheart (5499 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor butt crack!

I'm no prude, but it caught me off guard a bit. I have no real comments regarding the ratings, but I will say the scene definitely gets you thinking about what may or may not be appropriate, both in the writing and the art.


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#88 Posted by Hunter114 (829 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really see a problem with this... the imagery isn't that graphic in my opinion and we don't really see "anything"


I also think that the Asgardian dialect kinda masks the speech a little... but I grant that if you already know what they are talking about, then you will understand it.... and if a teen rating is 16 plus, then I kinda hope that readers already know and understand the concept of sex and sexuality anyway.

So, is it appropriate? - Well I don't know the context of the comic, so I can't really say... but on it's own out of context it doesn't seem that inappropriate to me.
#89 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio

You could only see as much of Thor as you would see of a guy in a speedo at the beach.

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#90 Posted by Feliciano2040 (654 posts) - - Show Bio
@NeoMantis said:
" The only shocking thing about this is that anybody could be shocked by it.Sheltering your children to the point where they are not aware of the fundamentals of human reproduction at age 16 is not "responsible parenting". "
Damn straight.

Pretty lame issue for a return of the "Brutally Honest" videos.
#91 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio
@Feliciano2040 said:
" @NeoMantis said:
" The only shocking thing about this is that anybody could be shocked by it.Sheltering your children to the point where they are not aware of the fundamentals of human reproduction at age 16 is not "responsible parenting". "
Damn straight.Pretty lame issue for a return of the "Brutally Honest" videos. "
That's not really fair to say. Sarah raised an important issue that got a good conversation going and she was actually brutally honest and gave her opinion. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it lame. Plus, as multiple people have stated already, it raises a bigger issue: that of censorship and ratings in comings.
#92 Posted by hitechlolife (194 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see what the big deal is. Inf fact it's a more natural display of sexuality than things like Star Saphire's crystal thong.

#93 Posted by TypingKira (3509 posts) - - Show Bio
 I think that the violence shown in comics is way worse than this, Babs, and really, this is kind of tame. It's okay to show Odin beating the living crap out of Thor or Thor bashing brains our with a hammer is okay, but two mature adults who are more than ready for this kind of relationship together in bed isn't okay? 

Aren't they kind of married anyway? Sort of? Sometimes they are. . . 

And while to a point I think you're right, many other users have also stated that it should be the parent's job to watch what their kids are reading. T+ means kids my age (or a little younger), not little 13 year old kids. 

Besides that, it's Coipel, so it's like fine art ;}
#94 Posted by Multiverse (276 posts) - - Show Bio
@hitechlolife said:
"I don't see what the big deal is. Inf fact it's a more natural display of sexuality than things like Star Saphire's crystal thong. "

I just thought this was kind of funny. Thor and Sif are supposed to be deities. Star Sapphire gets her powers from aliens. From a human perspective, there isn't really anything natural in either example.
#95 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow...interesting.  That issue certainly does press some buttons.  Still...its not greatly beyond the pale of indecency...not yet anyway...

#96 Posted by RobertG (46 posts) - - Show Bio


Aren't we all naked under our close?  Who cares if some one is naked?  The fact that we care so much about nudity says a lot about ourselves as a society.  It's only a big deal to see a naked person because our society says we should hide it.  Is it really bad?  I question that school of logic, it makes no sense at all.  You can blow some ones head of in a comic and show a pair of boobs in another, and every one will be in an uproar about the boobs.  Don't all of you people think that killing is worse than people having sex?  There should be nothing to be "shocked" about!!  I hope I live to see a future where we are a little more open minded and a little bit less sheltered about things that don't really matter.  I gotta tell you, if I saw this at 13 years old, I don't think it wouldn't be something I did not have a pretty good understanding of already.  If your a parent with a teenager that can't handle an image like Thor naked, and I might add his "private parts" were covered in shadows, then I think it's long over due to sit them down and talk about the birds and the bees. 

 

Sorry 'bout the rant, these kind of conversations kinda get me goin'!!!

#97 Posted by B'Town (2336 posts) - - Show Bio

Lately I have been hunting down kid friendly comics for my niece and nephew.  These days, I am hyper sensitive as to what is appropriate and what is not.  I have been looking for books for younger readers but have also been paying attention to what teens are reading, my niece and nephew are not teens yet so I wouldn't buy them this Thor book, but I have to say, I would not buy it for them even if they were old enough.


I read plenty of adult comics, anyone who knows me around here would agree that I am no prude, still I don't believe teens should be reading this.  

I'm with Sara.
#98 Posted by hitechlolife (194 posts) - - Show Bio
@Multiverse said:
" @hitechlolife said:
"I don't see what the big deal is. Inf fact it's a more natural display of sexuality than things like Star Saphire's crystal thong. "
I just thought this was kind of funny. Thor and Sif are supposed to be deities. Star Sapphire gets her powers from aliens. From a human perspective, there isn't really anything natural in either example. "
What's more human than getting naked with someone you love?
#99 Posted by Blurred View (363 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't the point of this scene that nothing is up with naked Thor?


...Hey, I skimmed through and didn't see anyone say that yet. It had to be fixed.

Okay, may as well be a little constructive. I agree with the idea of a universal rating system over each company doing their own. That should just be common sense. Not that I want to see the return of a group like the Comic Code Authority. But some agreement to use the same ratings between DC and Marvel would be good.

As for this scene in particular, there's really no issue here. The issue was rated T+, and this scene fits perfectly into that. Sif and Thor are nude, but we don't actually see anything due to strategically placed shadows. Shadows, along with smoke and water, have been used to obscure nudity as long as I've been reading comics. So there's really nothing that remarkable or explicit about this specific scene. It had two characters with their nudity obscured who were only talking about sex. If this was too much for a T+ book, then what is even the point of a T+ rating?
#100 Posted by tonis (6202 posts) - - Show Bio

the rating system in any media is a double edged sword.

It does allow parents who want to be informed of what the material is considered by some sort of standards and practice, HOWEVER, for that to work it requires responsible parenting to a large extent to be effective. We all know the person at the checkout, or collecting the ticket stubs isn't going to be responsible enough to enforce or do the parenting for you. Yea a kid might have a tough time buying a Playboy at the book store, but he certainly isn't likely to get crap for buying a Thor.

The other side of the sword is the fact that with MANY kids, teens especially, by giving a 'mature' rating you actually just entice them to want to get their hands on it. Lets face it, teens typically want to grow up and do grown up things. Saying something has mature content doesn't deter them, it just puts a highlight on the fact that if they wanna feel grown up, here's something considered for grown ups.

So, should we have rating systems for media? yes, so you know what to expect.

Should we rely on THAT as the method to preventing kids from seeing material they shouldn't? No, because it's not a solution unless strictly enforced (which it's not), it's a suggestion.

It's up to parents to determine the real solutions and to try to bring up responsible kids.

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