Loki #10

Thor #04

In line with the Whisper and Odin unworthy just P.I.S. for this Change.

What a dumb reason to give this new chick the name Thor, is marvel really this desperate to give Thor's name to someone else?

I get that the name Thor holds meaning, but even so, that is his name whether he is worthy of it or not, it isn't a title. Also its not like he did anything horrible to make him unworthy or he's a bad guy now. That's just dumb, he can't even use his own name. He was thor before he was worthy of Mjolnir so why should he not be Thor now that he is unworthy again??

This just makes me hate female Thor more. Seeing thor, or Odinson, standing there with a fake arm giving up his name is just annoying. They are destroying Thor in every way possible.

i dont mind the arm but yes the name WFT marvel?

His name's still Thor in my book, regardless of what the writers want to say.

I still think that people are getting too worked up over the name. It's not a big deal. Eric Masterson went as Thor and he wasn't Odinson. He just inherited the power like the current Thor has. It's really a tiny detail that has no bearing on the actual story and just used for branding purposes.

No it isn't a tiny detail, don't confuse Thor with Mjolnir, Odin gave Eric Masterson Thor power and form, and the original was sealed in his mind, female Thor is Thor because she is worthy of Mjolnir, why Loki wasn't Thor in Axis #09? he like Cap and others also were worthy of Mjolnir, Thor was Thor before he was worthy of Mjolnir, didn't Jason Aaron wrote young Thor as Thor in TGOT?

But anyway who said Eric Masterson was a story that needed a reboot?

@asgaard: Cap and Loki weren't transformed by the hammer if I'm remembering correctly. They were just able to wield it. The new Thor has been transformed into Thor much like Masterson or Blake while wielding the hammer. I know it's different because the Thor we all know and love is still around, but all I'm saying is that it doesn't matter for the story if they call her Thor or not. It just makes sense to have her named Thor for the publicity and branding purposes.

I'm not sure by what you mean in your last statement. I didn't say anything about Masterson needing a reboot.

@cap10nate: Sure you makes sense for her to be called Thor, because BRB was called Beta Ray Thor (although that was dumb too)

But thor now going by "Odinson" makes absolutely no sense.

@jayc1324: that's a different situation since BRB happened thirty years before they decided to make this story.

Thats like being mad that Black Widow never told Steve Rogers that she dated a guy who was an American that looked exactly like his ex partner before Brubaker decided to make it a thing.

You were the one who compared Female Thor to Masterson, and if Eric was a very bad idea, why female Thor is a good idea for the story? (not sales), since she (Human Probably Roz) doesn't have any kind of connection with Asgard and the nine Ten realms, 3 issues were out and issue 4 preview and the book didn't go anywhere, she is pointless to Asgard, after his identity revelation where will the book go? Plus this Pr stunt ended the awesome TGOT, made and is making a lot of damage to Odin and Thor as honored warriors, and butched a lot of the concepts of the hammer itself, Mjolnir never made anyone behave like the Asgardians and yes Loki was transformed by Mjolnir in Axis, He just not went Super Saiyan like female Thor if she is Roz, because the Pr stunt needs to look like a female version of Thor, and Loki doesn't, that's what this book is all about, sell a female version of Thor, not other character wielding Mjolnir, if not Agent Roz didn't need to have blonde hair, that never happen before, it's ridiculous i really don't know where Aaron will go next to sell this book.

I respect your opinion and if you like this change and new book, but as Thor fan this is how i feel about this Pr stunt.

@cap10nate: BRB is not a different thing and Aaron even said that story is part of what mad him want to do this.

And no, that's like Steve rogers giving up his name because he lost his shield.

@asgaard: I also agree with your point of damaging Thor and odin as honored warriors. Fake Thor uses Mjolnir and beats him and he just gives up? That's not the thor I know.

Progressives and Feminsts would throw a temper tantrum so it's best just to ruin a character they don't even read

Thor shouldn't stop the fight with Fury after the whisper, he should fight him to dead with honor, isn't that what the Asgardian religion is all about? With that being said if Odin is unworthy how can he still be the King and All Father of Asgard, so for this book the Asgardian religion also is in off mode, although that is what defines the Asgardians.

Curious is that this book written by the same writer, is also destroying one of the TGOT most important messages that was, what really means to be a GOD? For me that is the most interesting characteristic about Thor, both his parents are Gods, he is not like Hercules or WW, his place is and always was between the other Gods, his destiny is to be the King of Gods, he is the one that chooses to protect mankind as a God, guess Aaron also forget about that.

@cap10nate: used to make the book sell cuz it won't sell squat without HIS name and fame.

@thunderingthorfan: Sadly, a lot of people fell for it. Luckily there are still those of who can tell the difference between the real God of Thunder and some two-bit replacement conjured up because change.

@jayc1324: Anybody wearing an Iron Man suit obviously becomes Iron Man. What about the time Bucky became Captain America for a few seconds when he caught the Cap's shield in the movie? :/ Argh... I once let a friend borrow a jacket for a few days. Under Marvel logic... *sigh*

The violation of character concept in this case is profound. Aaron has many sins against him if there is a Comic Book version of Hell for writers.

That's just lazy reasoning..

Marketing. Just plain old cynical marketing.

Still with this? Hating on the gender of this character is just puerile at this point. The horse isn't dead, it's freaking mincemeat.

My only issue is not knowing what the whisper is and the mystery behind who the new Thor is. It's not as interesting as Aaron had hoped it would be because the only thing that would shock anyone reading the book is if it turns out she isn't Roz.

I do admit there are a few things that grate in terms of inconsistencies, but I'm not off the fence yet on this one. Plus, with the nonreboot reboot going on this May, who knows what's going to happen to this book? I keep hoping to enter a thread on the subject where posters talk about the story, criticisms and all, and not about this "chick".

My opinion.

@ms-lola: few things???

(Whisper, Odin unworthy, Thor was Thor before he was worthy of Mjolnir, None of the other characters, (including Loki) had speech and physical changes after being worthy)

Aaron deconstructed Thor's identity and personality just to sell other character as Thor (Pr stunt), he butched some of the character concepts only for sales, you can introduce a new character without the sacrifice of the original character, but that is not what Aaron is doing.

So let's discuss the new book, even if we could forget the whisper and Odin unworthy, after 3 issues and issue 4 preview, the book doesn't go anywhere, even in her story, there are several clues that she is Roz but Aaron keeps writing only for the sales.

I m not hating anyone, i just don't get why she is called Thor, can you explain that? If the new Thor was agent Phil Coulson same story why would he be called Thor have Asgardian Speach and blonde hair after being worthy of Mjolnir?

well screw this bs reason I still won't read that publicity stunt hack of a character.

@asgaard: We've had this discussion before and I've enjoyed it. I think you raise some very valid points. Again, your criticism of the name of Thor I can understand, it's the fixation others seem to have on her gender, and her gender only, that I can't be bothered with any longer. I want to talk about what the book has failed to accomplish (which you have done), not about this "chick" and such.

It's not you. I'm on board with your problems with the whole set up with the new Thor. It's still too early for me to completely leave this title because while I personally don't like having Roz take on the Mjolnir, I do like having Thor (THE Thor) enjoying a story line free of the Avengers and to an extent, Loki.

@ms-lola: Keeping the discussion on the new book story, (the horse is dead) Roz (i made a topic why i think it's her) is a Jason Aaron character her story is merged with Roxxon, she can carry that story line, but my question is what else? I think a Thor comic book should be more connected to Asgard and the 10 realms, i don't think she has much to offer to the myths of Asgard, she can't disappoint Odin for loving both Midgard and Asgard, and she probably will end up being Loki best friend or love interest and that is not what i like to see between Loki and Thor, and i would like to bring a new interesting plot for Roz has Thor, but i really can't.

I m very biased because i like Sif a lot, and this was the perfect opportunity to give her some more attention, she never was worthy of Mjonir and she could carry all the Asgard and the 10 realms story lines, as she did in JIM, her relation with her brother Heimdall could be more developed and since Angela brought back the Aesir and Vanir differences i love to see her perceptive of that, because along with Odin and Thor she is one of the few renaming Asgardians, Freyja and the warriors 3 or even Angela are not Asgardians in the full extend of that word, she is worthy i hate to see her along the warriors 3 on the moon and one of them says that no one could lift mjolnir, P.I.S. the Agent of Shield is more worthy than Sif, don't buy it, TGOT was great but Aaron didn't use Sif there, i think he doesn't like the character, it's unfair to Sif and other female characters from Thor books that after so many story's, the writer choose one of his own creations with no character development and no connection to Asgard to be the focus of the main Asgard comic book.

If Aaron choose Roz because it's also easy to get rid of her, what is really the point of her story? Since we already saw that Mjolnir influence her behavior, can't see how she will be an interesting character, i don't think Mjolnir should have some kind of self awareness, but this is what Aaron is selling, and for now it's selling well, because she is Thor, but i would like that this story wasn't only made for the sales, i would like to see Sif in the spotlight to get her own book in the future, or a team up with Angela if her book didn't survive, even there marvel is not playing well, i don't know if it's a good idea to have 2 Asgardian comic books with female lead at the same time, female Thor is taking all the attention from Angela book and we see that in the sales, and it would be very bad if Angela book fails, because she is not going anywhere.

I m also not quitting on the book, at least until we know what was that whisper, but if that was some small big thing like (the hammer was for Angela), i don't know? I think the new book has a lot of problems, but Asgardians never Quit, (except with whispers), the problem is not in her gender, but in what marvel is doing to the original character to create her as Thor, but you are right some comments don't have anything to do with the story or the new book, but it's not easy to see one of your favorite characters be sacrificed only for sales.

lousy

I cannot agree with you more. I don't want to smudge up what you've said because it's perfect as is, except maybe the part about Roz becoming Loki's best friend since Verity has taken up that role (another thing that makes me disappointed because of Leah...)

I do agree with the focus on the new Thor taking away from Angela. I can't imagine how Marvel would think it wouldn't, considering how much they pushed the marketing on the female Thor and just kind of, left it flat with Angela. I know you have some issues with Angela as well with the way she's been behaving, but what you suggested with Sif jumping into her book is brilliant. Really, really brilliant. With Angela slowly deprogramming herself from Heven's way of life, Sif would be the perfect mentor in guiding her into the Asgardian way. Angela can't help but respect the warrior that is Sif. I don't know if I've told you, but I am a big fan of Sif myself. The small portion of JIM where she interacted with her brother Heimdall was too little!

You shocked me with your theory about the Mjolnir belonging to Angela. I don't even know how that would even work? It would take away the entire history of the thing! I really, really hope they aren't going that route. I am with you on not liking how the Mjolnir appears to be an entity of some sort as well. Makes no sense. Plus, Aaron introduced Roz as someone who invited Thor to her graduation party for a lark, but yet she doesn't have much knowledge of what the Mjolnir stands for? As an Asgardian? Again, makes no sense.

While I am also a huge fan of the Warriors Three, I do remember there being a female character added to their group through a short mini series although I can't recall it entirely. She was part wolf, or had some Asgardian blood transfused into her. I can't remember her name, but couldn't she have been a potential wielder of the Mjolnir since she was originally from Earth?

I'm driving myself a little cuckoo with all this, haha. I am enjoying discussing this with you as you are very knowledgeable. I've learned a lot from you, thank you. :)

@ms-lola: Thanks i feel the same about your posts :)

Aaron said in several interviews that these are the only suspects

The thoughts are human so it's between Roz and Jane, here is why i think it's Roz

http://www.comicvine.com/thor/4005-2268/forums/female-thor-is-agent-roz-1639013/#12

Aaron Last Interview

Part of Mjolnir story

So there is a link between Thor and Mjolnir that wasn't undone yet, is this how Aaron will explain why she will go super saiyan, with Thor life force? Has you know i also think that Mjolnir shouldn't be a character, but in the whole canon, this was the only thing that could make some sense, but i bet that Aaron will write something new that doesn't fit the myths from the past like the whisper.

JIM was awesome, but not so awesome when BRB was there, the Asgardian warrior Sif shouldn't be affected by any Man, God or Alien, i like Bill but it's poor writing to make him her potential love interest, i also would liked more interaction between Sif and her brother Heimdall, but i think that's also time to make Loki and Heimdall to start to really dislike each other.

Angela if well written has huge potential, i can see several stories for her, unlike Roz, imagine a war between the Angels and Mephisto, with Asgard, Hela and Surtur between, there were the deals for Angela and Loki, the Valkyries with Brunnhilde and Sif could support the Angels (with other Queen), Amora could work for Surtur and trick Odin and Hela to make them release all the Valhalla warriors, Thor has to protect Midgard from this war etc, was from the top of my head but Angels Gods and Demons have a huge potential at least for me, was only my impression or does the ruthless assassin Angela fears Volstagg? And her new sister, will this Asgard new heir survive the reboot that is not a reboot but will Reboot the MU?

You and I have similar tastes, I never did enjoy Beta Ray Bill's interactions with Sif. The further away he is from her, the better.

I am even more convinced now that you're right about Thor's life force being responsible for the Super Saiyan effect on Roz (haha) based on the events with Doctor Strange. The couple of panels I saw tonight from the issue coming out on Wednesday makes it seem Thor was under the impression the Mjolnir was being wielded by his mother, and not this unknown female:

The way this female Thor speaks to Thor matches a lot of how Roz would behave. Not a good thing, but then again, Thor is all over the place. It's hard seeing him less concerned about Earth and more concerned about himself and his hammer. (:/)

Thanks for the Aaron comments. I'm put out that he still refers to Roz as Thor's new love interest, but looks like Mjolnir will be going on an adventure of sorts and hopefully at the end of it, we'll get Thor back to normal, whatever that normal is going to be.

I'd wish no woman would read Thor, given the fan base.

is there any comic fan base filled with creeps and weirdos?

@cgoodness: Thor's they can keep him I'll never touch his books now

why?

@cgoodness: Lot beard braids in a tizzie over a character change that won't mean a left over golden apple tomorrow, regardless of race, gender or fill in the blank thing, no base should push away new fans, simple as that. You may not think this is about gender and it's more about quality control. It is. Just didn't see a lot of tact when this whole thing started. Yep it's the web. But that pressed my button, that happens from time to time.

If the price is the destruction of the Original character, how do you think fans should react?

I have no problem with her gender like i said above, (If the new Thor was agent Phil Coulson same story why would he be called Thor have Asgardian speech and blonde hair after being worthy of Mjolnir?).

You can bring new characters to the spotlight without deconstruct everything that is establish, even if we forget why she is called Thor, Aaron himself six moths ago was writing Thor God of Thunder, and the unworthy young Thor was Thor not just Odinson, don't you think that fans will react negatively if he is writing only for the new fan base, and that writing doesn't make any sense, because only has the sales purpose?

Also Thor's hand is way too big in that picture.

@darling_luna: good. Exit stage left please. Thorriors don't need new "fans" that casually advocate the destruction of what has been established for the REAL fans for years. REAL THOR fans need only apply here. His stories are too good for you anyway. Enjoy the less than mediocre PR stunts you have now....

@darling_luna: I'm not like that and I've been a Thor fan for 15+ years. Not all the fans are crazy.

Only military goes by last names and last I checked friends still use first names and family. Thor would never part with his name given at birth. Shameful how do they expect anything good to come of that. No women would want to go by another's name as well. Then on top of it all a man's name. Thor is not a mantle he was born. He grew and the powers that be gifted him as all gods of any pantheon with powers...weather and storms and a warriors spirit. Not to be taken or given by Odin or any other but his own birth like a mutant of the gods. That's why he is Thor. ..The power of Thor. No other soul like Thor and that's why I read the book.

The same with Odin and Sif and Loki.

@asgaard: Aaron: I want to tell the real story of Mjolnir.

Translation: I want to alter Mjolnir's origin in ways that will justify me screwing Thor out of it and giving it to the poser.

His mother would never agree to this for when he was born she named him... Oh he'll no you go get your name back lol Thor or do not show your face at the dinner table. Hell has no fury like a mothers. She be more likely to say... how you going to take a man's name (his first name ) what is wrong with you?

"The power of Thor... Belongs only to Thor! And you are not he!" One of my favorite lines so far.

Shame he gave up the name later on when She Thor somehow used the hammer sooo much better than he could...

@lvenger: Yup. Not only does that make no sense, but apparently that is all it takes to get Odinson to give up. He should still be pissed about her having the hammer, not sad about it, no matter how good she is.

It makes a certain amont of sense that Thor, as noble and honorable as he likes to present himself, would give up his own name in a time when he feels unworthy of it. In case he now has to go out and do less honorable things, his old name (in his mind) wont suffer for it. It's not completely logical, but then again, Thor is viking god, not a professor of languages and philosophy.

Does it make any sense that the woman takes the name of Thor when she is out swinging the hammer? It's different, I think. Inside and so far unspoken on page, she knows who she is, in there, she will never call herself Thor, but to people around her, when she has the hammer in hand; to her it's the 'superhero name' she goes by. Its the same the way Clark Kent doesn't identify himself as Superman, but it's what he answers to when he puts on the cape.

I dont think he saw it as her doing it better than him, but just the fact that she got it to act differently than he managed.

But I think there is a clue in all of this, Mjolnir is on some level sentient now, it actively chooses who can and should use it rather than be wielded by whoever happens to be worthy (explaining why Odin couldn't lift it either, and dismissing the notion that Thor is 'unworthy'). And here is perhaps a bomb; perhaps what Nick Fury whispered to Thor was not aimed at him, but something aimed at Mjolnir, an old dwarf spell that 'woke' it up. With the whole 'Man on the Wall, knows just about everything' it's not unreasonable to think that old Norse/dwarven spells were also recorded.