What went wrong with Lobdell's run.

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#1 Posted by Roliepolieolie (12 posts) - - Show Bio

First off. The guy has no idea how to write kids/teenagers. I'm sorry, but he really doesn't have even the 1st clue. Enough of my mini-rant. Give some constructive points.

#2 Posted by danhimself (22217 posts) - - Show Bio

honestly other than the obvious editorial screw ups and retcons I think this is the best Teen Titans has been since Geoff Johns wrote the book....it may not be great but it's far from the worst thing on the shelves...at least it's better than the majority of Volume 4

#3 Edited by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

honestly other than the obvious editorial screw ups and retcons I think this is the best Teen Titans has been since Geoff Johns wrote the book....it may not be great but it's far from the worst thing on the shelves...at least it's better than the majority of Volume 4

Agreed with all of this. As for what went wrong with this good but far from perfect series I think that it was too re imagined and that since nothing was sacred it kind of lacks direction in spite of the clearly defined goals of the first arc, everything is still all over the place and nothing is really defined well enough. It gives it a loose feeling despite the otherwise decency of the book making it hard to get behind. On top of all of this I maintain the "The Culling" was the series low point and as it's climax it makes the whole thing feel worse than it is just because the high point was kind of lame

#4 Posted by Roliepolieolie (12 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you guys like the dialogue? I dropped the book at issue 6 because I just couldn't stand the interactions between the characters. Just my opinion. I would be open to jumping back on when a completely fresh arc starts.

#5 Posted by danhimself (22217 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@danhimself said:

honestly other than the obvious editorial screw ups and retcons I think this is the best Teen Titans has been since Geoff Johns wrote the book....it may not be great but it's far from the worst thing on the shelves...at least it's better than the majority of Volume 4

Agreed with all of this. As for what went wrong with this good but far from perfect series I think that it was too re imagined and that since nothing was sacred it kind of lacks direction in spite of the clearly defined goals of the first arc, everything is still all over the place and nothing is really defined well enough. It gives it a loose feeling despite the otherwise decency of the book

I think it would have been much better if they would have stuck with their original plan to have this be a continuation of Volume 4 and have N.O.W.H.E.R.E. capture Superboy and brainwash him into fighting the other Titans...because that would mean that Wonder Girl, Superboy, and Kid Flash would have been forced to stick with their original personalities and backstories...it could have also prevented the changing of Tim's backstory....the problem was that they relaunched Superman and Supergirl from the ground up making it hard for Superboy's origin to stay the same and thus changing the Teen Titan's book fundamentally....they didn't actually change anything until after Superboy #1 so you still get the feeling that this is the pre Flashpoint Superboy in that issue

#6 Edited by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: I wasn't aware of that plan, it explains so much I really wish they would have followed through and dealt with the consequences later.

#7 Edited by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@Roliepolieolie said:

Did you guys like the dialogue? I dropped the book at issue 6 because I just couldn't stand the interactions between the characters. Just my opinion. I would be open to jumping back on when a completely fresh arc starts.

It's corny and kind of forced but there's worse out there

#8 Posted by Roliepolieolie (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@Roliepolieolie said:

Did you guys like the dialogue? I dropped the book at issue 6 because I just couldn't stand the interactions between the characters. Just my opinion. I would be open to jumping back on when a completely fresh arc starts.

It's corny and kind of forced but there's worse out there

Haha too true. At least it's no Hawk and Dove. *shivers

#9 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@Roliepolieolie said:

@BlackArmor said:

@Roliepolieolie said:

Did you guys like the dialogue? I dropped the book at issue 6 because I just couldn't stand the interactions between the characters. Just my opinion. I would be open to jumping back on when a completely fresh arc starts.

It's corny and kind of forced but there's worse out there

Haha too true. At least it's no Hawk and Dove. *shivers

Oh great, You just brought back my nightmares, thanks allot

#10 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing wrong with Scott Lobdell's run.

#11 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Roliepolieolie said:

@BlackArmor said:

@Roliepolieolie said:

Did you guys like the dialogue? I dropped the book at issue 6 because I just couldn't stand the interactions between the characters. Just my opinion. I would be open to jumping back on when a completely fresh arc starts.

It's corny and kind of forced but there's worse out there

Haha too true. At least it's no Hawk and Dove. *shivers

You do know Hawk and Dove was written by Sterling gates which also wrote a very beloved run on Supergirl right?

I know the internet hates Rob liefeld but seriously, lets be a little objective here. We're talking about dialogues not art.

#12 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

I quite like it. I'm not completely sold on the characterisations of most characters

What concerns me is that Cassie has the fashion sense of someone of the 90s.

#13 Posted by Outside_85 (8016 posts) - - Show Bio

Originally it was how the characters were portrayed that bothered me, right now it's just the massive amounts of melodrama between them...swear there are some scenes where I hear the violin playing in the background...

"Artemis who I just met...NOOOOO!" (I'd have understood Tim's reaction if he had been around her for some time...not just an hour)

#14 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: We didn't mention Leifeld we were genuinely in agreement that the dialogue sucked independently of the art

#15 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32193 posts) - - Show Bio
@sethysquare

Nothing wrong with Scott Lobdell's run.

#16 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@sethysquare: We didn't mention Leifeld we were genuinely in agreement that the dialogue sucked independently of the art

While I disagree on that. I think Sterling Gates is a great writer and I love his run on Supergirl and as far as I can tell I thought Hawk and Dove was pretty good as well. I skimmed through but did not purchase them because I do not have interest in the characters.

#17 Posted by The_Tree (7076 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@BlackArmor said:

@danhimself said:

honestly other than the obvious editorial screw ups and retcons I think this is the best Teen Titans has been since Geoff Johns wrote the book....it may not be great but it's far from the worst thing on the shelves...at least it's better than the majority of Volume 4

Agreed with all of this. As for what went wrong with this good but far from perfect series I think that it was too re imagined and that since nothing was sacred it kind of lacks direction in spite of the clearly defined goals of the first arc, everything is still all over the place and nothing is really defined well enough. It gives it a loose feeling despite the otherwise decency of the book

I think it would have been much better if they would have stuck with their original plan to have this be a continuation of Volume 4 and have N.O.W.H.E.R.E. capture Superboy and brainwash him into fighting the other Titans...because that would mean that Wonder Girl, Superboy, and Kid Flash would have been forced to stick with their original personalities and backstories...it could have also prevented the changing of Tim's backstory....the problem was that they relaunched Superman and Supergirl from the ground up making it hard for Superboy's origin to stay the same and thus changing the Teen Titan's book fundamentally....they didn't actually change anything until after Superboy #1 so you still get the feeling that this is the pre Flashpoint Superboy in that issue

That's upsetting. I'd be cutting Lobdell so much slack if they went this route.

#18 Posted by Zoch81 (223 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked new Teen Titans plus think nothing wrong with Scott Lobdell's run I think been good so far

Online
#19 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@BlackArmor said:

@sethysquare: We didn't mention Leifeld we were genuinely in agreement that the dialogue sucked independently of the art

While I disagree on that. I think Sterling Gates is a great writer and I love his run on Supergirl and as far as I can tell I thought Hawk and Dove was pretty good as well. I skimmed through but did not purchase them because I do not have interest in the characters.

Fair enough opinion, I checked it out and was unimpressed by the dialogue but it's cool if you disagree

#20 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

I think its the weakest of Lobdell's books right now. RHATO has been great, from what I understand Superboy is good although I haven't read it personally... its not that I don't like his run on Teen Titans, it just feels like something is missing from it. Its not a bad book, it just doesn't feel like a Titans book.

#21 Posted by SupahForeigner (227 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read all the Teen Titans books, but those which I have read were pretty good in my view. The next two upcoming issues look promising from the cover, hope the cover reflects the story inside the comic book. 

#22 Posted by danhimself (22217 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

@danhimself said:

@BlackArmor said:

@danhimself said:

honestly other than the obvious editorial screw ups and retcons I think this is the best Teen Titans has been since Geoff Johns wrote the book....it may not be great but it's far from the worst thing on the shelves...at least it's better than the majority of Volume 4

Agreed with all of this. As for what went wrong with this good but far from perfect series I think that it was too re imagined and that since nothing was sacred it kind of lacks direction in spite of the clearly defined goals of the first arc, everything is still all over the place and nothing is really defined well enough. It gives it a loose feeling despite the otherwise decency of the book

I think it would have been much better if they would have stuck with their original plan to have this be a continuation of Volume 4 and have N.O.W.H.E.R.E. capture Superboy and brainwash him into fighting the other Titans...because that would mean that Wonder Girl, Superboy, and Kid Flash would have been forced to stick with their original personalities and backstories...it could have also prevented the changing of Tim's backstory....the problem was that they relaunched Superman and Supergirl from the ground up making it hard for Superboy's origin to stay the same and thus changing the Teen Titan's book fundamentally....they didn't actually change anything until after Superboy #1 so you still get the feeling that this is the pre Flashpoint Superboy in that issue

That's upsetting. I'd be cutting Lobdell so much slack if they went this route.

it's not Lobdell's fault though....it's editorial who made the changes...he's doing the best with what he's been given

#23 Posted by mathematicscore (167 posts) - - Show Bio

RHATO (I'm officially in love with this acronym) is great, and I loved his Generation X run back in the day, so I disagree with him not being able to hand youngsters/dialogue. That said, I'm not all that well versed in Teen Titans history, and have only been paging through the current book (and Superboy for that matter) on the stands. I think that since Teen Titans is one of those concepts that owes a lot to continuity, the reboot throws a lot of curve balls.

Also, what Black Armor said about the climax being lame is true; that may be coloring perception of the book as a whole, which I think is unfair.

#24 Posted by LittleRedRobinHood (27 posts) - - Show Bio

The new Teen Titans is great.... they just need to kill off Skitter ^_^

#25 Posted by htb106 (1641 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually really like Lobdell's run but a lot of stuff that Lobdell has wrote or hinted at DC have decided they can't use which makes a lot of the story look messy.

#26 Posted by Comiclove5 (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@LittleRedRobinHood said:

The new Teen Titans is great.... they just need to kill off Skitter ^_^

When was the last time we so her I think they basically have.

I wanted hate Lobell run but I can't.

#27 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32193 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing but as it's not exactly the same as the run before him all the fans bitch and moan 

#28 Posted by nitsen (21 posts) - - Show Bio

It all seemed to get a little bad around around the time Superboy joined the team and Lobdell started pushing characters together in relationships. It just seems, to me, that Lobdell might not be the best writer for relationship stuff. I haven't read anything he's written pre New 52 so I could be wrong.

#29 Edited by MrMiracle77 (1659 posts) - - Show Bio

I stopped at issue 2 when I realized that I was getting little more than the sloppy-seconds from Lobdell's X-Men run.  The opening story arc involves a secret organization that *gasp* secretly hates and fears teenage superheroes!

#30 Posted by Sinestro2828 (1511 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

Originally it was how the characters were portrayed that bothered me, right now it's just the massive amounts of melodrama between them...swear there are some scenes where I hear the violin playing in the background...

"Artemis who I just met...NOOOOO!" (I'd have understood Tim's reaction if he had been around her for some time...not just an hour)

I hate the new titans, designs and all, and I especially hate how they undid the histories of Wolfman's Titans & left us with Lobdell's subpar version.

Oh yeah, and I agree introducing Artemis, who still has a growing fan following thanks to her exposure on Young Justice, only to kill her off, just seems like epically bad story telling.

#31 Posted by Boyletson (22 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott's run on Teen Titan's definetly the best, but after issue 10 thing started to pick back up.

#32 Edited by darth_jones (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@Roliepolieolie said:

First off. The guy has no idea how to write kids/teenagers. I'm sorry, but he really doesn't have even the 1st clue. Enough of my mini-rant. Give some constructive points.

I think you said the most important thing already. In addition to terrible terrible art, there's: Cliche and uninteresting characters. Dismantling continuity without any respect for the previous incarnations we've known before. Unnecessary crossovers.

#33 Posted by htb106 (1641 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Lobdell's run, and why would he need to write just teenagers properly, they're super powered ( some even god-like ) teens.

#34 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12415 posts) - - Show Bio

i was thinking of picking up The book a while back but I'm just not interested in the changes.pretty much the story with most of the New 52. it doesnt help that its giving off an x-men vibe. and whats with all the Battle Royale-esque kidnapping kids and forcing them to fight each other in comics lately?

#35 Posted by Outside_85 (8016 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: A combination of Hunger Games hype and limited imagination?

#36 Posted by grenade728 (748 posts) - - Show Bio

I enjoyed the books up until the Culling, but now that its over, and we have this Cassie story arc (which I think is okay, but not great), I think it will keep getting better.

#37 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12415 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt: A combination of Hunger Games hype and limited imagination?

seems like a logical explanation.

#38 Posted by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I love the Titans, they are my favorite superhero team in comics. My problem with Lobdell's run is that it feels like a rehash of what he did with the X-Men in the 90's and that is so disappointing to me because they(Lobdell and DC editorial) could have easily continued where Krul left off and they didn't. I loved the Geoff Johns run and I really enjoyed the J.T. Krul run on the book. The rest of volume 4 was hit or miss for me (mostly miss). I also don't like what Lobdell is doing with Superboy either. BTW the best run of that was the Jeff Lemire run.

#39 Posted by darth_jones (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@htb106 said:

I like Lobdell's run, and why would he need to write just teenagers properly, they're super powered ( some even god-like ) teens.

To make them believale/relatable characters? Just because they have super powers doesn't mean they're not teenagers. They're supposed to feel human and real not like flat cut outs with flashy abilities. All the best superheroes are very human characters that feel real. Superman? An incredibly powerful being who happens to be one of the most human characters in existence (well at least he used to be). Spider-Man? Popular because he has real human teenage-young adult problems and feels like a teenager. Have you ever read Marv Wolfman's Titans? Or Geoff Johns's Titans? Or Young Justice? Or New Mutants? Or Spider-Man? Jeez.

Just...really? "Why would he need to write just teenagers properly?" Is that serious?

#40 Posted by BatWatch (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

A shorter conversation is, "What went right?"

Here are some negative points.

Mediocre costume design (on average)

NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

Poor rationale for team.

Lackluster villains.

Unnecessary and negative continuity changes.

Tim Drake is kind of stupid and jerkish.

Forgetting of subplots (what was that about Bart being wanted or some such revealed way back in issue...six I think?)

NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

Stupid unexplained plot points. Eg. Danny the Street, Travel back in time with dinosaurs)

Twelves issues in, and the team still doesn't have a clue how to work together which goes back to Tim being stupid.

Harvest and the Culling

The ********** of Tim Drake.

Mediocre dialogue.

Poor pacing

No current rationale for team

And with that last point, I am finally out of things that come to mind off the top of my head. I could probably double the list if I actually considered it for awhile.

I wish there was some way to get this in front of Lobdelll.

#41 Posted by darth_jones (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights: Add Turning Wonder Girl into a skanky thief and change mediocre costume design to atrocious. Also add bad art and everything about Skitter. I'm not sure how I feel about Bunker. As much as I hate stereotypes it is different to see a more flamboyant gay character fighting crime. While I give props for diversity, it does feel a little forced. So, I remain fenced on Bunker.

#42 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Posted by BatWatch (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

@darth_jones said:

@PsychoKnights: Add Turning Wonder Girl into a skanky thief and change mediocre costume design to atrocious. Also add bad art and everything about Skitter. I'm not sure how I feel about Bunker. As much as I hate stereotypes it is different to see a more flamboyant gay character fighting crime. While I give props for diversity, it does feel a little forced. So, I remain fenced on Bunker.

I always find it odd that people think of Bunker as flamboyant. The interpretation of the character is in your mind. When I read him, he is a little more emotionally expressive and excitable than the average guy, but he is hardly a queen...at least in my way of viewing him. Honestly, if I had not seen the commentary on "Teen Titans has a gay character," all over comicvine, I probably would have been surprised when he outed himself in Teen Titans...5, I think.

Personally, I like Bunker, and I think Skitter could be interesting, but Lobdell has failed to develop her. Is she conscience? Is she like an animal? Does she ever turn back to a human form? What is going on with her anyway. Poor writing on Lobdell's part, but I'm not sure the character is without promise.

I have mixed feelings about the costume design.

With Cassie, I feel like I am looking at the same character with an entirely different set of life circumstances. With Tim and Connor, I feel like I'm looking at completely new characters. Bart...(chuckles) Bart is exactly the same.

#44 Posted by darth_jones (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

Just a heads up, his Teen Titans was number 3 on the New York times best seller list.

http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/2012-09-30/paperback-graphic-books/list.html

And number 10 this week

http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/2012-10-07/paperback-graphic-books/list.html

quite literally shocking.

@PsychoKnights said:

@darth_jones said:

@PsychoKnights: Add Turning Wonder Girl into a skanky thief and change mediocre costume design to atrocious. Also add bad art and everything about Skitter. I'm not sure how I feel about Bunker. As much as I hate stereotypes it is different to see a more flamboyant gay character fighting crime. While I give props for diversity, it does feel a little forced. So, I remain fenced on Bunker.

I always find it odd that people think of Bunker as flamboyant. The interpretation of the character is in your mind. When I read him, he is a little more emotionally expressive and excitable than the average guy, but he is hardly a queen...at least in my way of viewing him. Honestly, if I had not seen the commentary on "Teen Titans has a gay character," all over comicvine, I probably would have been surprised when he outed himself in Teen Titans...5, I think.

Personally, I like Bunker, and I think Skitter could be interesting, but Lobdell has failed to develop her. Is she conscience? Is she like an animal? Does she ever turn back to a human form? What is going on with her anyway. Poor writing on Lobdell's part, but I'm not sure the character is without promise.

I have mixed feelings about the costume design.

With Cassie, I feel like I am looking at the same character with an entirely different set of life circumstances. With Tim and Connor, I feel like I'm looking at completely new characters. Bart...(chuckles) Bart is exactly the same.

haha you need to work on your gaydar lol. Bart seems like old Impuls- Bart not kid flash-bart. I'm ok with Impulse Bart though.

#45 Posted by BatWatch (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

It's very sad that Lobdell's run is selling so well. It simply is not very good.

Seriously, what does Bunker do that makes him so flamboyant? I say it is all in the mind of the reader.

#46 Posted by darth_jones (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights said:

It's very sad that Lobdell's run is selling so well. It simply is not very good.

Seriously, what does Bunker do that makes him so flamboyant? I say it is all in the mind of the reader.

Yeah I agree. As for bunker:

I think these images speak for themselves. #stereotyped

#47 Posted by tahmidk (283 posts) - - Show Bio

We need Marv Wolfman or Geoff Johns

#48 Edited by Teerack (5221 posts) - - Show Bio

The only problem I have with teen titans is the spider-girl is a wasted character, and should be replaced with someone cooler like Static or Raven. The writing in my opinion is great, This thread should just be titled "I want to read the comics I read 5-10 years ago"

Although it did kind of piss me off when he killed off Artemis for no real reason. :\ but that might of been the writer of Batman and Robin's fault.

Online
#49 Posted by BatWatch (2350 posts) - - Show Bio

@darth_jones said:

@PsychoKnights said:

It's very sad that Lobdell's run is selling so well. It simply is not very good.

Seriously, what does Bunker do that makes him so flamboyant? I say it is all in the mind of the reader.

Yeah I agree. As for bunker:

I think these images speak for themselves. #stereotyped

Touche.

#50 Edited by Wboy (442 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel it's so reimagined I have no idea what to think of it anymore. Like when I think of JL I think of maybe some characters, their iconic symbols, maybe the watch tower. With this I have no clue what to think.

Skitter needs to go away and never skitter back..heh. No srsly why is she even there.

Bunker.....neutral to dislike. He's not much as a character. The only ones I really only like are Red Robin, Superboy, and Wondergirl...the teenrity @_@

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