The Bat Mother

Posted by RazzaTazz (9630 posts) - - Show Bio
In terms of a group of heroes, Gotham City's generally fare pretty poorly when it comes to a feminine presence.  While that is not to take away from the likes of any of the Batgirls or Batwoman, the fact is that most of the characters do not have a mother type of figure in their lives outside of the memory of one.  Bruce, Dick, Tim, Jason all only know their mothers as a memory.  In other cases as with Cassasndra the mother figure is elusive and not really in her life either.  There are of course some mother-like influences.  For instance, the services which Alfred performs are those which are generally considered more feminine even if he himself is also a strong male figure in all of their lives.  Another example is also Leslie Thompkins, while not acting as a mother per se, still acts as a moral guide and provides advice that one might expect from a mother.  Outside of these two though there is also another mother figure in for the Gotham heroes, albeit one less conventional, and that is Talia.  While she is mostly absent from the lives of these characters she has indeed in the past proven to be extremely loyal to her son Damian.  In another sense, she also acts as a sort of surrogate mother figure to Jason from time-to-time, even going so far as to be there and sort of responsible for his second birth (from the Lazarus Pit.)  Of course, in many ways the tales of Gotham City are those of an extreme, however it is not usually considered that one of those extremes is a strong father figure (that being Bruce) but no corresponding female figure to aid him.  
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#1 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Disney also has a hate for moms. Most movies of theirs kill them off or never had them to start. Single dads seem to be for more engaging stories somehow it seems.

#2 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3939 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice, very true.

#3 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daveyo520 said:

Disney also has a hate for moms. Most movies of theirs kill them off or never had them to start. Single dads seem to be for more engaging stories somehow it seems.

I finally got to my computer so I can now reply/quote you. I think this is a good point, but not so much a hate. Also, not just having mothers lost but also fathers. Both Princess and the Frog and Tangled were missing Father figures, and if you count Cinderella's Step-Mother as a Mother figure, it was also only missing a father.

Though I do agree that Disney seems to have many single fathers, perhaps because it instils a sense of loss with the Princesses. I do not know.

#4 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hawkeye446: Fiction seems to have a lot of orphans too. Like in comics. In Gotham alone there are so many rich boys who's parents died. Like a lot.

#5 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daveyo520: Yussss. Again. I think it is because it is an easy way to make the character have a sense of loss, and therefore opens up different ways to build the character and progress with stories and such. I mean take Batman for example. His whole Superhero 'career' started because his parents were killed. Without that he would be plain old [rich] Bruce Wayne.

#6 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hawkeye446: That is true. However in most stories the people find a sense of closer and have a happy ending. Batman became crazy when his parents died and won't stop.

#7 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Daveyo520: Yes, very true. But with Disney movies and other fiction, them finding closure means they are at peace and happy. For Bruce to get completely past that would change his character A LOT! Not to mention he hasn't gotten very far in 70 years so it may take a while. Though, I haven't read anything with Joe Chill so I don't really know that whole situation.

#8 Posted by Daveyo520 (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hawkeye446: Ya, so he will never find it. That is what I was using to separate Batman and Disney characters. Joe Chill was taken care of a while ago, but crime still exists.

#9 Posted by SmoothJammin (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't Talia just issued a half a billion dollar bounty on Damian's head?

#10 Posted by entropy_aegis (15306 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmoothJammin said:

Hasn't Talia just issued a half a billion dollar bounty on Damian's head?

Yep.

#11 Posted by battyfan1 (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz: Talia as a bat mother figure......you are joking right?.......right?

#12 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz said:

While she is mostly absent from the lives of these characters she has indeed in the past proven to be extremely loyal to her son Damian. In another sense, she also acts as a sort of surrogate mother figure to Jason from time-to-time, even going so far as to be there and sort of responsible for his second birth (from the Lazarus Pit.)

Putting a bounty on Damian's head sure is a strange definition of loyalty, and mothers don't due what Talia did to Jason in bed, and I'm not talking about tucking him in. Let's face it Talia is crazy and not fit to be anyone's mother

#13 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm actually going to crawl into a hole until Talia dies. I can't take seeing her character so horrifically destroyed like Morrison has been doing.

#14 Posted by entropy_aegis (15306 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@RazzaTazz said:

While she is mostly absent from the lives of these characters she has indeed in the past proven to be extremely loyal to her son Damian. In another sense, she also acts as a sort of surrogate mother figure to Jason from time-to-time, even going so far as to be there and sort of responsible for his second birth (from the Lazarus Pit.)

Putting a bounty on Damian's head sure is a strange definition of loyalty, and mothers don't due what Talia did to Jason in bed, and I'm not talking about tucking him in. Let's face it Talia is crazy and not fit to be anyone's mother

LMAO.

#15 Posted by Saren (25660 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

I'm actually going to crawl into a hole until Talia dies. I can't take seeing her character so horrifically destroyed like Morrison has been doing.

Rucka did it better.

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#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (15306 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

I'm actually going to crawl into a hole until Talia dies. I can't take seeing her character so horrifically destroyed like Morrison has been doing.

Now go hide in that hole or else.

#17 Posted by RazzaTazz (9630 posts) - - Show Bio

@battyfan1: @BlackArmor: I was not saying that she is a good mother figure, just that she fulfills the role of a mother in some sense

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#18 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz: eh, she of course biologically fulfills the role where Damian is concerned and she also raised him to some capacity, but when it comes to everyone else not so much. Calling her a mother figure to Jason is kinda like calling Ducard a mother figure to Bruce....well it would be like that if Bruce and Ducard had gotten it on, its actually much weirder to brand the Talia Jason relationship as mother and son figure. I have to go back to Morrison's Batman and Robin but I'm pretty sure her entire current relationship with Dick is not liking him and trying to kill him. She's certainly not any kind of mother to Bruce, and for the rest of the Bat family I don't even think I've ever seen her talk to any of them unless you count Catwoman (which I don't) this doesn't mean that she doesn't have any relationship with them period but it does imply that she doesn't have anywhere near a motherly relationship good or bad with them. With Damian yeah shes a mother figure, with Jason it's creepy and its a stretch but you could say she is, but for the entire bat family while she's a strong female presence (usually a menacing one) she doesn't quite reach mother figure status, more like that disturbed baby sitter who tried o drown you in the tub when you were 5

#19 Posted by battyfan1 (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@RazzaTazz: eh, she of course biologically fulfills the role where Damian is concerned and she also raised him to some capacity, but when it comes to everyone else not so much. Calling her a mother figure to Jason is kinda like calling Ducard a mother figure to Bruce....well it would be like that if Bruce and Ducard had gotten it on, its actually much weirder to brand the Talia Jason relationship as mother and son figure. I have to go back to Morrison's Batman and Robin but I'm pretty sure her entire current relationship with Dick is not liking him and trying to kill him. She's certainly not any kind of mother to Bruce, and for the rest of the Bat family I don't even think I've ever seen her talk to any of them unless you count Catwoman (which I don't) this doesn't mean that she doesn't have any relationship with them period but it does imply that she doesn't have anywhere near a motherly relationship good or bad with them. With Damian yeah shes a mother figure, with Jason it's creepy and its a stretch but you could say she is, but for the entire bat family while she's a strong female presence (usually a menacing one) she doesn't quite reach mother figure status, more like that disturbed baby sitter who tried o drown you in the tub when you were 5

thats what i see talia as......not a mother figure at all......and LOLS to the bold part cause i can actually see her doing that

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