Have We Seen The End of Talia al Ghul?

  • 76 results
  • 1
  • 2
Posted by No_Name_ (17403 posts) - - Show Bio

Grant Morrison is known to be a master of turning things on their head, particularly when it comes to some of our most beloved characters. For him, the DC Universe and its properties are his giant play pen, and he can do with them virtually what he wants. Or so it seems. So what is Morrison planning to do with Batman next?

About a week ago DC Comics announced that they would begin publishing what they called the "Second Wave" of "The New 52." Essentially, books that were not doing as well in sales would be swapped out for new titles starting May, 2012. The announcement also listed some of the upcoming new books the publisher is planning to release, including the highly anticipated return of Grant Morrison's BATMAN, INC.

Since Morrison's BATMAN, INC. went on hiatus late last year, Bat fans have been waiting for news of when Morrison would return to finish his story. It's no wonder, either, since the man left so many questions about the Bat family and the future of the character unanswered. This May, Morrison will return to BATMAN, INC. So with that in mind, we decided to look at where he last left The Dark Knight.

After reading through BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES I am beginning to think Morrison has more twists and turns up his sleeve than any of us are expecting, and one of those major twists will involve Batman's old flame, Talia al Ghul. If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

== TEASER ==

Talia al Ghul is a very unique character. Since we first met her, Talia has struggled to find the balance between the two men in her life: her allegiance to her father and her undying love for Bruce Wayne. Through everything, no matter how often she disagrees with Bruce, she continued to demonstrate her love for him. Which is why her final appearance in BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES seems so out of character for her.

At the end of that story we find out that Talia is "Leviathan," that she is and has been the force in opposition to Bruce and that she has built herself an army that would rival her father's League. Taking on the name "leviathan," which is defined as a one of the seven demons of hell, in Demonology. There are references made to Leviathan in the Torah, in Ancient Middle Eastern lore and in Christianity. The thing is, Talia has never referred to herself as "The Demon Head." So is this really Talia al Ghul?

During Morrison's run on Batman we witnessed the 'Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul' crossover event. During that story a wounded and decrepit Ra's al Ghul captured Damian and plotted to transfer his soul into Damian's body; essentially using Damian as a vessel. Now, Ra's can't transfer into any body, only that of a relative. This is why Damian would have been such a good choice. During this story both Batman and Talia teamed up in order to save Damian from that fate, and Ra's was forced to transfer into his son, The White Ghost. However, Ra's was dissatisfied with the White Ghost as a host. Could it be that this was a temporary solution for Ra's until he found a more suitable host?

Looking at the language in those last few pages of BATMAN: LEVIATHAN one thing is certain, this did not sound like Talia. Bragging about her power and the countless assassins she has under her command certainly does not sound like the Talia al Ghul who had always worked under her father. Based on the language, Talia sounds a lot like Ra's al Ghul. The fact that Talia refers to Batman as "Detective" only serves to reinforce this theory. It would make sense that Ra's would be going after Batman and placing a bounty on Damian's head since Batman did, after all, "take something from" Ra's; namely, Damian. Ra's plans from the start of the resurrection crossover was to use Damian as a vessel.

Could it be that Ra's transferred into Talia, albeit temporarily? If so, this wouldn't be the first time. In an episode of 'Batman Beyond' titled 'Out of the Past,' Ra's transfers his soul into Talia. Kind of creepy, right? Do you think this is plausible? Are you looking forward to BATMAN, INC.?

#1 Posted by redhoodx (75 posts) - - Show Bio

No way, to think that ras al gual reffered to batman as beloved makes me want to gag. thats why I'm sure its her. and the reason you feel this way is because morrison wrote this. morrison is great with everybody but stephanie brown, jason todd and talia al gual. He portays these characters completly different from what they should be.

#2 Posted by danhimself (21903 posts) - - Show Bio

OR....Talia is still really pi$$ed that Damian chose Bruce over her

#3 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29330 posts) - - Show Bio

If this is true, then Morrison is stealing an episode of Batman Beyond.

#4 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27336 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:

If this is true, then Morrison is stealing an episode of Batman Beyond.

Best BB episode everrrr. Especially Batman the musical at the start.
#5 Posted by DarthShap (874 posts) - - Show Bio

It could be but I doubt it. Talia has been in full heel mode for more than seven years now, ever since Countdown to Infinite Crisis. She joined the society of evil by herself, then we learned that she had hidden Damian away from his father, that she had hidden Jason away from Bruce, that she trained him and slept with him, then she tried to murder Dick through Damian and finally she declared her own son an enemy of the family and started to grow another one, all of that before becoming Leviathan.

What I am trying to say is that her being a full heel is not exactly news.

Now that could be a nice twist but I do not know if Morrison would be comfortable with taking something directly from Batman Beyond and I am not even sure he was that involved in the resurrection of Ra's al Ghul.

That being said, the absence of Ra's in Morrison's run is intriguing but I doubt Morrison would have left Nightwing and Red Robin use the character if he had plans for him in the future.

#6 Posted by ReVamp (22859 posts) - - Show Bio

I know a RainEffect bait when I see one.

Rainy, get yo ass down here.

#7 Posted by NightFang (9640 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: That was one freaky episode.

#8 Edited by Fhiz (426 posts) - - Show Bio

In a recent interview Morrison actually said he hated Ra's.... Sooooooo, yeah. Doubt it. What we get in Leviathan Strikes is the story ending where it began, at Batman and Son. To quote Talia at the climax of that story after Bruce turned her down, "then it's war, and you're responsible." Leviathan is that war.

#9 Edited by animehunter (1515 posts) - - Show Bio

If Ra's al Ghul did somehow take over Talia's body, which I hope is the case, so calling Batman beloved could be a way to rattle him and keep Batman of his game, or Talia has gotten over Batman and has fully embraced her father's mission.

So, as Talia is one of my favorite characters and don't believe she would behave in this manner especially towards Bruce, here's hoping for the body switch scenario.

#10 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29330 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightFang said:

@InnerVenom123: That was one freaky episode.

@spiderbat87 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

If this is true, then Morrison is stealing an episode of Batman Beyond.

Best BB episode everrrr. Especially Batman the musical at the start.

I'm still waiting for Bruce Timm to make an animated feature about the "Near Apocalypse of '09".

#11 Posted by Fhiz (426 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison on Ra's: CA: So we'll see a lot more of her and Ra's and...? GM: We'll see a bit more of those characters, because... I don't like Ra's al Ghul much, and I think it was actually a good idea to get rid of him. http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/08/08/grant-morrison-talks-about-action-comics-his-batman-mega-story/#ixzz1kc9A8VHt

#12 Posted by WolfMonkey (302 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: they seem to be doing that alot... it's common to see original comics adapted for the cartoons, but doing the opposite is different. it just doesnt feel right....

#13 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

I was thinking Talia was growing that new Damian in Batman and Robin as a new host for Ra's....

#14 Edited by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

I know a RainEffect bait when I see one.

Rainy, get yo ass down here.

When I saw this on the front page, my reaction was instantly "GTFO!!!" 
 
It's because Morrison doesn't have the slightest idea on how he should be writing Talia al Ghul. He's got amnesia, I swear. He's forgotten that, during the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, he personally wrote Talia as loving and devoted to both Bruce and Damian. Now, she's just this one-dimensional cop out of Ra's. I mean, even the writer's of Gotham City Sirens had the right idea, that she was intent on wiping Selina's mind to protect the identities of Bruce and Damian. 
 
I so hope to everything holy in the comic book world that she is being possessed. I'm sick and tired of seeing her loyalty to Bruce raped like this (it isn't the first time ... Death and the Maidens anyone?).
#15 Posted by EugeneSaxe (227 posts) - - Show Bio

Have we seen the end of a comic book character? Did you really print that?

#16 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1639 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate reruns...

#17 Posted by The Impersonator (4306 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

If this is true, then Morrison is stealing an episode of Batman Beyond.

Best BB episode everrrr. Especially Batman the musical at the start.
#18 Posted by super_psycho (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison why do you do this?

#19 Posted by ReVamp (22859 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

@ReVamp said:

I know a RainEffect bait when I see one.

Rainy, get yo ass down here.

When I saw this on the front page, my reaction was instantly "GTFO!!!"

Yeah, knew you'd say something like that.

@EugeneSaxe said:

Have we seen the end of a comic book character? Did you really print that?

We have.

#20 Posted by Billy Batson (56895 posts) - - Show Bio

BB

Online
#21 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@super_psycho said:

Morrison why do you do this?

OMG I KNOW RIGHT?!
#22 Posted by super_psycho (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

BB

#23 Posted by super_psycho (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

@super_psycho said:

Morrison why do you do this?

OMG I KNOW RIGHT?!

Tell them that Talia loves bruce and she is not an enemy.

Grant morrison needs to get it through his thick egg like head

#24 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29330 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

BB

Genius.

#25 Posted by thiagofonseca (39 posts) - - Show Bio

So the father is possessing the father? i don't know about that... doesn't feel right.

#26 Posted by Danial79 (2207 posts) - - Show Bio

If Ra's is possessing Talia, then that will make for an awesome and creepy story. H.P. Lovecraft used this idea (in 1933) to create one of the creepiest stories I've ever read: The Thing on the Doorstep.

#27 Posted by acomicbooklook (55 posts) - - Show Bio

The answer to the question is NO. And I love that two-part episode of Batman:Animated Series, Like a few have said, This is Comic Books, you never see the end of a character (except uncle Ben). Of course that's not true if your reading indy books, like the ones I talk about in the last episode of A Comic Book Look:

#28 Posted by BransonHuggins (97 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow a lot of hate for Morisson. I don't get it either. I mean yes, he has changed a lot of things, but come on, it's good. Then again that's just my opinion, and all of you so OBVIOUSLY have yours.

#29 Posted by Wolverine0628 (398 posts) - - Show Bio

I've seen that Batman Beyond episode. It was creepy. But that might be a better solution than if Talia has actually turned on Batman and possibly her own son. I'm a really big Talia fan, so I hope she hasn't suddenly changed her character.

#30 Posted by katanalauncher (937 posts) - - Show Bio

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

#31 Posted by entropy_aegis (13610 posts) - - Show Bio

Suddenly changed her character? lol wut? she's been like this ever since Death and Maidens which was published after Hush and was written by Rucka.Morrison just improved on it,cause Rucka made her Nyssa's slave.

And no I don't think Ra's is possessing her,Morrison does'nt use cheap plot twists like Jeph Loeb.

I think Talia will eventually reform and die,and the guilt of what she was and why she did what she did will fall upon the men around (Batman,Ra's maybe others like Bane,Lex etc.)

#32 Posted by Mercy_ (92081 posts) - - Show Bio

@katanalauncher said:

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

She clearly says in the article before any spoiler-y details regarding Talia are given

If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

Moderator
#33 Posted by BatUniverse (111 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutelly awesome, of course I'm going to follow this one, but I feel a little sad for Talia.

Sniff, Sniff.

#34 Posted by battyfan1 (203 posts) - - Show Bio

better question is does anyone care?

i love grant's run.....and Talia is actually very much in character....have people been reading about her appearances in the bat books over the years?

#35 Posted by katanalauncher (937 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

@katanalauncher said:

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

She clearly says in the article before any spoiler-y details regarding Talia are given

If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

Yes, because clearly I could have avoided a suggestive spoiler on the main page of the website

#36 Posted by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't in the same Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul said that Talia can't be the host? Don't he said the host had to be male and of his blood?

Also a bit confused because the title of Leviathan Strikes said "before flashpoint" and so this series will be before that too, right? or is like the others? :S Confused

@Billy Batson said:

BB

LOL :D, no problem anyway, I hate Talia but poor Dami :'(

PD: Oh and I loved the Batman Beyond episode though it scared me a bit, you have no idea of how much I laughed at "Batman: the musical" was like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0urb6lU-FkI

#37 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering its Grant Morrison I say just about anything is possible with regard to the Batman and Ra's. It would be creepy as all hell though if he transferred his essence into Talia for the story though, but hardly surprising.

#38 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know... I think there's merit to this theory. I found it to be really out of character as well. I'm looking forward to Batman, Inc. if only because I'm dying to see where Morrison is taking the story and how he's going to finish it off -- it's sure as hell been long enough. I personally think Damian is going to be killed off by the end of this whole thing, but I'm just speculating.

#39 Posted by Saren (24316 posts) - - Show Bio

YES DIE TALIA DIE

Moderator
#40 Posted by fivestarga (239 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Batman should just bite the bullit and wed Talia. If I were him, and presented with the opportunity to really have a positive effect on the world by reducing the amount of criminals through assasination...I'd be all for it. Plus, they'd have an amazing child.

#41 Posted by entropy_aegis (13610 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

YES DIE TALIA DIE

LOL

#42 Posted by War Killer (19485 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the idea of Ra's controlling Talia, sounds like something sick he would do to further his goals. Plus I agree that everything from those few panels do sound like "Talia" is holding a grudge against Bruce, which Ra's has plenty of things to fit that bill.

Either way, I do hope Talia ends up joining Bruce's side again as I honestly believe she's his best chance at a possibly lasting relationship.

Online
#43 Edited by BatClaw89 (144 posts) - - Show Bio

  

  Babs must have seen the Batman Beyond cartoon last night on the Hub.
#44 Posted by vandinejd_1991 (220 posts) - - Show Bio

I totally agree although I doubt he will since the episode is over 10 years old now and Timm hasn't done anything in years.

#45 Posted by CrimsonTempest (307 posts) - - Show Bio
@fivestarga said:
I think Batman should just bite the bullit and wed Talia. If I were him, and presented with the opportunity to really have a positive effect on the world by reducing the amount of criminals through assasination...I'd be all for it. Plus, they'd have an amazing child.
They already have. Meet Damian Wayne.
#46 Posted by The Mast (740 posts) - - Show Bio

I hadn't read this yet due to being super busy and all over the place with work.

What is with this site and spoilers in the titles? "Is the woman at the end of Batman: Leviathan Strikes, Talia?" is a spoiler. Don't warn us in the article when it's already ruined. Shoddy.

#47 Posted by No_Name_ (17403 posts) - - Show Bio

@katanalauncher said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@katanalauncher said:

Way to put a spoiler in the title Babs, not everyone is caught up with Batman.

She clearly says in the article before any spoiler-y details regarding Talia are given

If you have not yet read BATMAN INCORPORATED: LEVIATHAN STRIKES you may want to do so before you read any further.

Yes, because clearly I could have avoided a suggestive spoiler on the main page of the website

I didn't spoil anything with that title. I was teasing my theory. Doesn't mean it has happened.

#48 Edited by cosmo111687 (1488 posts) - - Show Bio

I generally agree with you, Babs. I think that Talia probably is Ra's. All the clues point to it. Her change in behavior, the fact that she calls him Detective, how the name Leviathan could be a coded reference to The Demon Head.

Also, an additional point of interest that may or may not have any significance, is that if you remove Talia's name from Leviathan, letter by letter, you are left with four letters - "EVHN". I don't know what significance "EVHN" has, but it clearly has some since "four letters" is emphasized in Talia's speech bubble, hinting at something bigger (maybe an acronym for something?).

#49 Edited by WildValentine (289 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally think that anyone who admits to not liking a character in an interview should not be writing them. That'd be like if I was hired to write Superman, I'd intentionally DESTROY his character!

#50 Posted by Teerack (4548 posts) - - Show Bio

If we've learned anything from batman it's that you can't keep a Al Ghul down.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.