I had a chance to meet Dave Gibbons in London at a comic book convention, and he brought up a very interesting critic on Superman ( take note Gibbons is famous with Alan Moore for giving us the best Superman run of the Bronze Age) he said even though supermans message of hope is great and Optimistic and a idealistic character there is something creepy about it he told me Superman comes off at times looking like a bunch of Utopian 19th Century literary nonsense telling me while Siegel and Shuster were very left leaning it didn't mean superman was meant to be seen in such a way. He told me other stuff about him and Alan Moores Superman Year One idea which was scrapped by DC so instead they made watchmen very interesting which i will post tomorrow. His talk told me a week ago to watch MOS again and make a analysis on the film and it all makes sense. Superman in MOS is already better then his enemies matter a fact he has proven them wrong. Being a fan of Superman for 35 years reading his comics Superman i admired being a symbol of Hope about a idea of idealism, though i realized that if Superman is portayed has a becon of hope to mankind and if we fans hero worship him instead of being inspired by Superman and lead on are own example which superman being there to guide us, Superman comes off has no different from Lex Luthor and Darkseid and Brainaic.

See if Superman is portrayed has a man leading mankind instead of mankind following him with there own two legs without him carrying them he doesn't seem different from his enemies. Superman made mistakes in MOS , his villains like Darkseid and Brainaic, Lex see themselves has perfection in there deluded minds. A superman that doesn't see himself has perfect and makes mistakes makes it more problematic for his enemies. One problem with superman i have is that his enemies seem actually right when they critic him. Lex Luthor brought up a great point in one comics saying " Superman also has a god complex why? Why would a being cry over the fact that he cant save everyone ,or hold himslef with high morality being alruristic, looks like a person with god complex to me from what i see but a person that is in denial of it" I know i can go on a philosophical discussion about this but i would go off to much, Dave Gibbons gave me a great point and even he wasnt happy with how Superman and Modern Superman takes too much from the Silver Age thinking that in America the the 50s was not a great time to be a Woman, Minority and how fake the silver age was which was apparent in the comic book stories.

I don't fully agree or disagree, It is a matter of preservative. A god complex can have many aspects, and you can imply that many aspects of a persons qualities and actions indicates one.

Superman wanting to save everyone is compassion, not being able to, and being upset about it, is normal behavior because he is closer to being able to do so, than anyone person (or is portrayed a such). To give you perspective, have you ever failed at something? Like not getting a job, or not winning a game or race? Don't you feel worse the closer you are to achieving your goal when you don't? Coming in second place vs coming in last, missing the winning shot by an inch, or losing the game by a point, or not getting the job after the 3rd interview vs just getting 1 interview.

I know this is not the exact situation, but I think it shows the example that the closer you are to a goal, the more it weighs heavily on you when you don't achieve it. I also think some of this comes for the concept of the more you do, the more you feel you need to do. Its not a perfect thorough implementation by any means, but its a comic just trying to convey an idea.

Sure with lives it probably shouldn't be the same, I think his attitude reflects the lose, while he is still happy he saves what he can, but I think saving so many people increases his sense of responsibility and that's why he feels for those he can't save.

You can still say this leads to a God complex but so can many peoples actions, like people who donate but are sad that is all they can give...if it is a god complex it is certainly not a bad one!

Lex Luthor just brought it up i dont agree with what he says but he has a great point also, Gibbons does have a great critic on how McCarthy Era Superman Silver Age bugs him and how thats the perception of superman everyone has been brainwashed to think is superman LOL. Modern Age Superman no matter how mopey is still going to grow up to be the Silver Age Version. I love his critic on the character and this is coming from a guy who loves Supermans message. I love your response great one, MOS Superman kinda makes himself more stronger then his villains cause he makes mistakes Darkseid and Brainaic see themselves has perfect in there mind what they do is flawless. Its very ironic that the superman people wanted is no different from them in a way. Gibbons and i had a great discussion on superman and he brought up his usually Philosophical Debate with Watchmen and Supermans ideas, also brought up how Lex Luthor should be portrayed more of a Objectivist in the form of Ann Ryan and Atlas Shrugged

Wait so is this a complaint or the opposite?

No its just me making a very interesting point and in a way its kinda a complaint :)

So... All the "as" are written as "has"?

Lol sorry about that

@drudox19:

I meant to add, its cool you got to talk to gibbons, happy you enjoyed the conversation!

Also the Irony of Lex referring to anyone else as having a God Complex should be quite apparent. If there was ever a case of Someone living in a glass house throwing Stones, it would be this... It exemplifies Lex's own insecurity and distaste for someone surpassing him in public stature as well has his hypocrisy.

Superman acts as a moral compass by following humanities best philosophies, not setting them, while Lex himself would rather set rules than follow. Lex hates him for being a symbol of what is right because he knows his moral compass takes him in the wrong direction and Superman reminds him of that every day, while at the same time showing up Lex in public standing.

Lex says Superman teaches people to rely on him, but Superman's intent is to encourage people how to follow his example, and if you look at those around Superman, that is what actually happens, you don't see the Flash or Batman or even Lois sitting around waiting for Superman when they are in position to take action.

Basically don't trust Lex, he is not known for his honesty.

MOS the message makes sense Jor EL said they will follow you in time, this is why i love the message of All Star Superman it was superman dying and him saying Mankind its time to take what i have given you i am not holding your hand anymore i am gone. Yes Lex Luthor isnt known for honesty MOS superman already proves Lex wrong now it will have the opposite effect Lex Luthor thinks hes perfect superman doesnt. Whats funny to me is that i had a Philosophical argument of a guy bashing MOS saying MOS was a Plutocratic message of Superman. I was like your evidence is because Clark was reading Plato (-__-) lol i told him you ever think its referring to clark reading the allegory of the cave i don't think superman believes in Plutocracy lol. The cave Allegory could also me Clark will guy some people but some will turn against him because they dont want to see the light thus Jor EL message of they will join you but you have to give them the choice to.I mean really Superman believes in a plutocracy.

My issue has is Dave gibbons problem is that some writers make superman come off has a 19th century american expressionist, with Utopian 19th sci fi era thinking which Dave told me is kinda creepy lol but loves Superman idealism and positiveness he just doesnt like the superman people are programmed to like came from the McCarthy era lol

@drudox19: This is tosh I'm afraid. And flies in the face of EVERYTHING that Superman stands for. Dave Gibbons and you get the wrong end of the stick. If you honestly think MOS Superman is a better inspiration, you have a long way to go in understanding the character.

this is really interesting.......it partly describes why i loved how the army was used in the movie.

Flies in the face of what Superman stands for which is what excalty Utopianism :( that was Gibbons point at times Superman comes off has a Utopian wet dream in his eyes. I wouldn't bash Dave he gave us For the Man who Has Everything and What happened to the Man of Tommorrow. Also Superman when he was created was about social change ( Superman was a socialist) he was a social crusader matter fact there was no AMERICAN WAY when Superman appeared has i said happened in the McCarthy era . I am ok with what Superman is and his ideals where just making a point that is all. Alan Moore is worst he is a great writer that gave us a good bronze age run on superman, he says Superman comes off has a nice Fascist this i don't agree with. I can see what he is trying to say, my point was that Superman that makes mistakes makes things work out better with his villains because my problem is if we portray Superman in a perfect light the irony will be he is kinda like Brainaic or Darkseid who in there minds already know they are perfection. Lvenger your idea of Superman i probably don't agree with but i respect your views

Superman has many interpretations i mean Frank Miller wrote Superman the way he did in the dark knight returns cause he was bothered with how Superman was being written in that time, not that he hated Superman he just didn't like how Superman was being written he felt that Superman especially in a era of the cold war would be very against the government just like how you feel about MOS Superman frank felt Superman was better then how he was seen in the comics at the time. You can tell Frank was a Fan of Jerry Siegel vision of Superman being the Social Crusader which IMO is missing still to this day of Supermans character new 52 is trying to bring that version to light i see. I know people hate what frank did with Superman in TDKR but i can understands franks frustration in that Superman wasn't the Social Crusader