Why does Jeph Loeb try to make Supergirl stronger Superman?

  • 54 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Posted by Frozen (16449 posts) - - Show Bio

It's been debated on this site by several users on this site that Superman is far stronger, he easily beat her in a recent issue. We all know that Superman is stronger than Supergirl, why does Jeph Loeb try and change this?

#2 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

i'd say the current supergirl writers are trying to push that. in Loeb's case, in his own supergirl run he made it clear why supergirl seemed stronger than superman but actually wasn't........its cuz she was new to earth n woke up completely empowered so she never held back whereas superman always holds back to not endanger the people around him.

#3 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

she is stronger. this is a mute point.

#4 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen: Supergirl was never proven to be Clark's superior. It was mentioned by Clark himself that the reason it appears that she's his superior is due to the fact that she holds nothing back. Clark's upbringing has forced him to constantly watch what he does and protect his secret, in turn forcing to hold back the majority of his power.

Can't find the scan at the moment but Clark mentions that he could stop Kara at any moment if he so desired.

Moderator
#5 Posted by Frozen (16449 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

she is stronger. this is a mute point.

False.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Frozen: Supergirl was never proven to be Clark's superior. It was mentioned by Clark himself that the reason it appears that she's his superior is due to the fact that she holds nothing back. Clark's upbringing has forced him to constantly watch what he does and protect his secret, in turn forcing to hold back the majority of his power.

Can't find the scan at the moment but Clark mentions that he could stop Kara at any moment if he so desired.

I know she isn't stronger. I know she is stronger, it just annoys me what writers like Loeb try and do.

#6 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen: Well that matters not since in the New 52, Kal has already been proven to be her superior in a couple of occasions.

Moderator
#7 Posted by Frozen (16449 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Frozen: Well that matters not since in the New 52, Kal has already been proven to be her superior in a couple of occasions.

Nice. Do you have the scans? I saw them a couple of days ago but can't seem to find them.

#8 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: oh like when he wanted to guide her after seeing she cant do it alone and she said no and said your going to have to fight me to come with you and he let her go like a little pussy being called out. and dont give me he didnt want to hurt her or people were around. she is dangerous on her own thats why he was there. letting her go, pussy.

#9 Posted by Billy Batson (58343 posts) - - Show Bio

Better question: Why do people take Loeb's writing seriously?
BB

#10 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen: Clone of Superman beats Kara within an inch of her life( according to commentators) in Superman #6:

They had a brief encounter in Supergirl #2 where Kara throws everything she has at Kal and he shrugs it all off and then tosses her into the air as if she's nothing:

Moderator
#11 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: I didn't understand a single thing you tried to say there. Are you arguing against me or insulting me?

Moderator
#12 Posted by Frozen (16449 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@Deranged Midget: oh like when he wanted to guide her after seeing she cant do it alone and she said no and said your going to have to fight me to come with you and he let her go like a little pussy being called out. and dont give me he didnt want to hurt her or people were around. she is dangerous on her own thats why he was there. letting her go, pussy.

Superman > Supergirl. It's already been proven, and yes. Superman does hold back.

#13 Edited by Frozen (16449 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@JohnnyWalker: I didn't understand a single thing you tried to say there. Are you arguing against me or insulting me?

I don't know what the hell he is trying to say, but nice scans. They really do prove that when serious, Superman is stronger. I'd bet Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel could take Supergirl too.

@Billy Batson: I don't know what the hell happened to him. He did great with Batman.

#14 Posted by joshmightbe (24759 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen: This is the same guy who made Red Hulk strong enough to knock out a watcher, who are about on par with Celestials in power so nothing he does surprises me

Online
#15 Edited by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: arguing. sorry rushed it. there was a recent issue. cant remember which. supergirl fought someone and won and then superman swooped in and grabbed her. he told her she needs guidance from him and that hes taking her in. she refused and told him hed have to fight her to give in. he let her go. even though he thought her a danger to the planet he let her go. if he was that much stronger he could have taken her in easy but didnt.

#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@Deranged Midget: oh like when he wanted to guide her after seeing she cant do it alone and she said no and said your going to have to fight me to come with you and he let her go like a little pussy being called out. and dont give me he didnt want to hurt her or people were around. she is dangerous on her own thats why he was there. letting her go, pussy.

Gibberish.@Billy Batson said:

Better question: Why do people take Loeb's writing seriously?
BB

This.

#17 Posted by SoA (5248 posts) - - Show Bio

is it a bad thing that a female character is stronger than a male character? is this the argument?

#18 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen: Wonder Woman has proven to be both Supergirl and Powergirl's superior in strength and skill.

@JohnnyWalker: Is this New 52? It sounds like Clark since he isn't exactly the type to force another person to do something against their will. That doesn't make him any weaker of a character.

Moderator
#19 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: yep new52. so far he hasnt been a push-over. until now. when she mentioned fighting he didnt try to debate he just said 'just go'. pretty lame.

#20 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

Better question: Why do people take Loeb's writing seriously?
BB

Eh, he's written good stuff before, especially regarding Batman, but along with many other "acclaimed" writers, he's dropped the ball.

Moderator
#21 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@Deranged Midget: yep new52. so far he hasnt been a push-over. until now. when she mentioned fighting he didnt try to debate he just said 'just go'. pretty lame.

He's proven his superiority in two cases already, he doesn't need to do it again.

Moderator
#22 Posted by Billy Batson (58343 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Billy Batson said:

Better question: Why do people take Loeb's writing seriously?
BB

Eh, he's written good stuff before, especially regarding Batman, but along with many other "acclaimed" writers, he's dropped the ball.

Not really. His Batman wasn't any good :-/
BB

#23 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson: I thought it was good :P Hush and Long Halloween were pretty interesting.

Moderator
#24 Posted by Billy Batson (58343 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen said:

@Billy Batson: I don't know what the hell happened to him. He did great with Batman.

Don't be silly :)
BB

#25 Posted by Billy Batson (58343 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget:

His Batman stories were pretty much the same. Just read this for LOLs. :p
BB

#26 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

cuz he sux

#27 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@JohnnyWalker said:

@Deranged Midget: yep new52. so far he hasnt been a push-over. until now. when she mentioned fighting he didnt try to debate he just said 'just go'. pretty lame.

He's proven his superiority in two cases already, he doesn't need to do it again.

Ya!! plus this is superman were talkin abt,firstly he wldnt want to trash his fortress,he wldnt hurt a girl,no no, he wldnt hurt his Cousin!! he took a full force kick from wonder woman and dint retaliate he wldnt hurt ppl he cares abt, Kara ws just being too much of a hothead for him to waste his time on her at tht moment :P and he wanted to test her at the same time. his exact words were "go. now. prove me wrong."

#28 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez said:

cuz he sux

So does Supergirl.

KC Superman is pure badass though.

#29 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

@Batnandez said:

cuz he sux

So does Supergirl.

KC Superman is pure badass though.

yeah she is pretty boring same with babs, I really only liked her as oracle

#30 Posted by Onemoreposter (4101 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

she is stronger. this is a mute point.

.....moot.....

#31 Posted by Jekylhyde14 (747 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it stems from the fact that the way Superman comics have portrayed women in the past has come under immense scrutiny in the past few decades. The fact that Supergirl was cast in the role as second fiddle to Superman Pre-Crisis is a part of this. The suggestion that Superman is naturally stronger is now seen as sexist and degrading to Supergirl. Loeb's attempt to make her stronger than Clark and the recent fight where she was beating on him are both geared towards making amends for the past. These writers are, more or less, going out of there way to show you that they aren't being sexist when they approach Supergirl and her relationship to Superman. This is done with the best of intentions and I at least agree that Supergirl should be regarded as a powerful hero on her own even if I don't necessarily think she should be stronger than Superman or even that Pre-Crisis writers were trying to be sexist when they wrote her in the past.

As far as the new 52 version of Supergirl goes, I don't think she is actually more powerful than Superman. Kal was obviously holding back when she was beating him down in Supergirl #2, and it has been explained that she developed her powers a bit faster than he did thanks to the fact her rocket was caught in orbit around the sun for a time. However, the writers did want to illustrate that Supergirl is a major powerhouse in the new DC universe so she shouldn't be underestimated by Superman or anyone else. It wouldn't bother me if they ended up on equal footing where power was concerned.

#32 Posted by SC (13390 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeph Loeb has magical powers that allow him to see the fictional characters in true and objective ways. Hence he tries to realistically represent the characters as they actually are in reality. Except Jeph Loeb is using his magical powers for evil and nefarious purposes! You mighty reader, you must use your magical powers to counter the evil warlord and save both Superman and Supergirl! Only you, and no other reader, only you can read and interpret comic book characters power levels the way they were meant to be, as per your preferences, conveniently enough. Only you can correct this injustice perpetrated by the evil warlord Loeb, only you can spread the truth about the Superman and Supergirl who are not actually fictional characters with fluctuating power levels to fit the demands of the story, only you can inform the world of the objective feats and history that prove, prove your interpretation of the Superman and the Supergirls true strength levels are reality, only you can ignore the mystic meta battle trolls that attempt to delay you from reaching Truth Kingdom on the Reality Mountain. Assemble Falkor, assemble Yikka, assemble Artax. **Phew** That was a really long sentence.           

Moderator
#33 Posted by Jekylhyde14 (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

Jeph Loeb has magical powers that allow him to see the fictional characters in true and objective ways. Hence he tries to realistically represent the characters as they actually are in reality. Except Jeph Loeb is using his magical powers for evil and nefarious purposes! You mighty reader, you must use your magical powers to counter the evil warlord and save both Superman and Supergirl! Only you, and no other reader, only you can read and interpret comic book characters power levels the way they were meant to be, as per your preferences, conveniently enough. Only you can correct this injustice perpetrated by the evil warlord Loeb, only you can spread the truth about the Superman and Supergirl who are not actually fictional characters with fluctuating power levels to fit the demands of the story, only you can inform the world of the objective feats and history that prove, prove your interpretation of the Superman and the Supergirls true strength levels are reality, only you can ignore the mystic meta battle trolls that attempt to delay you from reaching Truth Kingdom on the Reality Mountain. Assemble Falkor, assemble Yikka, assemble Artax. **Phew** That was a really long sentence.

LOL! Oh lord... battle threads have ruined superhero comics forever, haven't they?

#34 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that is what the current writers trying to do.

#35 Edited by azza04 (1492 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course Kal is stronger, he's a muscular kryptonian male while Supergirl is a petite 110lbs kryptonian female....of course he's going to be stronger.

#36 Posted by Raiiyn (3597 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Frozen: Clone of Superman beats Kara within an inch of her life( according to commentators) in Superman #6:

They had a brief encounter in Supergirl #2 where Kara throws everything she has at Kal and he shrugs it all off and then tosses her into the air as if she's nothing:

In the new 52, Kara still doesn't even understand her powers. This is a poor example of Kara's strength level.

@SC said:

Jeph Loeb has magical powers that allow him to see the fictional characters in true and objective ways. Hence he tries to realistically represent the characters as they actually are in reality. Except Jeph Loeb is using his magical powers for evil and nefarious purposes! You mighty reader, you must use your magical powers to counter the evil warlord and save both Superman and Supergirl! Only you, and no other reader, only you can read and interpret comic book characters power levels the way they were meant to be, as per your preferences, conveniently enough. Only you can correct this injustice perpetrated by the evil warlord Loeb, only you can spread the truth about the Superman and Supergirl who are not actually fictional characters with fluctuating power levels to fit the demands of the story, only you can inform the world of the objective feats and history that prove, prove your interpretation of the Superman and the Supergirls true strength levels are reality, only you can ignore the mystic meta battle trolls that attempt to delay you from reaching Truth Kingdom on the Reality Mountain. Assemble Falkor, assemble Yikka, assemble Artax. **Phew** That was a really long sentence.

lmaooo<3

#37 Posted by Lvenger (21233 posts) - - Show Bio

Supergirl is not stronger than Superman both pre and post New 52. Pre New 52, she just holds back less and Superman has said that he holds himself in check to prevent him harming anyone with his unleashed power. When he's cut loose, those feats and others prove he's more powerful than Supergirl.

As for post Flashpoint/New 52 incarnations, all that has been said about Supergirl's powers is that she was stronger than Superman when he was her age. This was due to Supergirl's pod orbiting the sun for half a decade or so, allowing her to absorb more sunlight directly than Superman.

In a scuffle in Supergirl 2, Kara belted Superman through the Great Wall of China and he shrugged it off before BFRing up into the atmosphere. In any case, the evidence shows that Supergirl is not superior to Superman just more willing to go all out with her abilities than he is.

#38 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Raiiyn: Not necessarily. It's proven by a recent issue in Supergirl that she's spent the entirety of 5 years in her spaceship rotating around the sun consuming solar energy. She's gained in five years what it took Clark his entire life. She is at no disadvantage, he's simply more powerful at this stage even when taking into notice that she doesn't hold back.

@Lvenger said:

Supergirl is not stronger than Superman both pre and post New 52. Pre New 52, she just holds back less and Superman has said that he holds himself in check to prevent him harming anyone with his unleashed power. When he's cut loose, those feats and others prove he's more powerful than Supergirl.

As for post Flashpoint/New 52 incarnations, all that has been said about Supergirl's powers is that she was stronger than Superman when he was her age. This was due to Supergirl's pod orbiting the sun for half a decade or so, allowing her to absorb more sunlight directly than Superman.

Moderator
#39 Posted by Saren (25112 posts) - - Show Bio

Loeb always goes overboard when writing characters he created in their preliminary appearances. He was the one who introduced Supergirl to the post-Crisis DCU (the Kara Zor-El version, not the Linda Danvers version) in the second arc of Superman/Batman, he was put in charge of her ongoing, and he couldn't resist showing off his fancy new toy, as it were. It's the reason why he wrote Supergirl casually chumping Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern and Flash one after the other despite the fact that all three have showings to the contrary outcome (for instance, she beat Flash by tricking him into running out onto the moon and thus passing out due to the lack of air, despite the fact that Flash has run on the surface of the moon before and simply run back to the Watchtower before he could run out air). He created Red Hulk (as Red Hulk, not Thunderbolt Ross), and wrote him chumping Surfer, punching out a Watcher, humiliating Odinforce Thor, etc etc. He created Hush and made him look like some kind of unfathomable criminal mastermind who could make the world's greatest detective scratch his head, and then after that Hush quickly became a loser who was bankrupted by Catwoman and left as a punching bag for rhinos. Give him the chance to create a character who has no prior power showings or continuity hangups, and you're essentially giving him free rein to punch every other character's continuity and prior power showings right in the jewels.

Moderator
#40 Posted by Raiiyn (3597 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: I understand your viewpoint but Clark has also had time to learn about his abilities and grow with them. Kara walked out of a ship with abilities she never had before that completely threw her off. She is still learning about her own capabilities.

#41 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Loeb always goes overboard when writing characters he created in their preliminary appearances. He was the one who introduced Supergirl to the post-Crisis DCU (the Kara Zor-El version, not the Linda Danvers version) in the second arc of Superman/Batman, he was put in charge of her ongoing, and he couldn't resist showing off his fancy new toy, as it were. It's the reason why he wrote Supergirl casually chumping Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern and Flash one after the other despite the fact that all three have showings to the contrary outcome (for instance, she beat Flash by tricking him into running out onto the moon and thus passing out due to the lack of air, despite the fact that Flash has run on the surface of the moon before and simply run back to the Watchtower before he could run out air). He created Red Hulk (as Red Hulk, not Thunderbolt Ross), and wrote him chumping Surfer, punching out a Watcher, humiliating Odinforce Thor, etc etc. He created Hush and made him look like some kind of unfathomable criminal mastermind who could make the world's greatest detective scratch his head, and then after that Hush quickly became a loser who was bankrupted by Catwoman and left as a punching bag for rhinos. Give him the chance to create a character who has no prior power showings or continuity hangups, and you're essentially giving him free rein to punch every other character's continuity and prior power showings right in the jewels.

THIS.

#42 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Raiiyn: Yes but she also has zero restraints. She's using her power to the full extent and it's proven that she's had just as much solar absorption, or more, than Clark has.

Moderator
#43 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

Why does it matter if Supergirl is stronger than Superman?

#44 Posted by Frozen (16449 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Why does it matter if Supergirl is stronger than Superman?

She isn't. It matters because it can contradict his feats.

#45 Posted by Raiiyn (3597 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it ever stated that she has been using her abilities to the full extent? I would think she still is unaware of what the full extent is?

#46 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen said:

@fodigg said:

Why does it matter if Supergirl is stronger than Superman?

She isn't. It matters because it can contradict his feats.

It's a reboot.

#47 Posted by Deranged Midget (17973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Raiiyn said:

@Deranged Midget: Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it ever stated that she has been using her abilities to the full extent? I would think she still is unaware of what the full extent is?

No, you're right, it's never been outright stated, but it's best assumption. She's never been taught to keep her powers in check nor does she care that much either. The way she's struck at Clark in their first meeting showed that she held nothing back as she sent him flying through the Great Wall and he didn't even fight back the entire time. He was merely trying to talk.

Moderator
#48 Posted by Raiiyn (3597 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Deranged Midget: Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it ever stated that she has been using her abilities to the full extent? I would think she still is unaware of what the full extent is?

No, you're right, it's never been outright stated, but it's best assumption. She's never been taught to keep her powers in check nor does she care that much either. The way she's struck at Clark in their first meeting showed that she held nothing back as she sent him flying through the Great Wall and he didn't even fight back the entire time. He was merely trying to talk.

And I can understand why that would be the assumption. I don't think she really understands her powers as of yet though and think she is still capable of more once she does. He was trying to talk yes, he didn't try to hurt her or anything. They haven't really had an all-out fight though, have they?

#49 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Raiiyn: If they did have an all out fight, Superman would destroy her.

#50 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Supergirl's strength is overrated. Here are characters that are stronger than her:

  • Superman
  • Captain Marvel
  • Power-Girl
  • Classic Thor
  • Wonder Woman
  • Martian Manhunter
  • Thanos

Etc. It goes on, but she ain't that strong.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.