WHY do you want superman strong or weaker?

#1 Posted by SOG7dc (7564 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone has their opinion of how strong Supes should be but im curious as to why you want him a particular way. Why do you want him super powerful or why do you like Byrne level supes?

#2 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (6361 posts) - - Show Bio

I like his power where it is right now.

#3 Posted by The Stegman (25165 posts) - - Show Bio

He should be the physically strongest hero on Earth, and for the most part...he is, so I'm good.

#4 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18047 posts) - - Show Bio

He should be the physically strongest hero on Earth, and for the most part...he is, so I'm good.

#5 Posted by SOG7dc (7564 posts) - - Show Bio

I like his power where it is right now.

He should be the physically strongest hero on Earth, and for the most part...he is, so I'm good.

yes but WHY? thats why i made the thread. why do you want him where you want him in terms of power??

#6 Posted by The Stegman (25165 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@rulerofthisuniverse said:

I like his power where it is right now.

@the_stegman said:

He should be the physically strongest hero on Earth, and for the most part...he is, so I'm good.

yes but WHY? thats why i made the thread. why do you want him where you want him in terms of power??

..Because he's Superman, he's the greatest hero to ever live (metaphorically speaking). He's strength should reflect that.

#7 Edited by SanoHibiki (1605 posts) - - Show Bio

Through stronger is not always better, I prefer Superman to be “first among equals” and of the strongest beings on Earth.

Years ago I bought the pirate DVD with Super’s animation. There were words on it:

Infinite power.

Noble heart.

Legendary fate.

These words pretty much summarize my feelings on this question.

#8 Edited by Squalleon (4643 posts) - - Show Bio

I

@the_stegman said:

He should be the physically strongest hero on Earth, and for the most part...he is, so I'm good.

This.

I like him strong because it showcases his kind heart, he is the exception in the "Power corrupts" rule and the more powerful he is the more visible it is. He is the strongest hero on earth if he wanted he could rule over us with an iron fist but his noble spirit doesn't misuse that power. Plus he was created to be above human capabilities and after that to be something we strive to be, so him getting beaten by humans like the Flash or Green Lantern goes against the core of the character.

#9 Edited by Bezza (3778 posts) - - Show Bio

why? Because his whole USP is being "super", being the most powerful of earths heroes. I don't want a silver age god, but I want someone who if he digs deep can over-come any obstacle. Sort of where his power level is in recent comics.

#10 Posted by RDClip (1150 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't care what his power levels are. His powers should serve to tell good stories, not vice-vera.

#11 Posted by MetalJimmor (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

As others have said, he should be the strongest hero on Earth.

To me, Superman represents two things. Power and will. He is what it means to be strong. There is nothing that he could not accomplish, and yet with all the power in the world he still has the will to resist temptation and strive to be our humble servant. Our protector. Superman doesn't demand or ask anything of us, he simply gives with everything he has. His strength is surpassed only by the love and compassion he has for all of us.

Superman is what we should strive to become. Powerful and strong, either physically, politically, or monetarily, and with the strength of will to use that power for the betterment of our fellow man, and not for our own gain.

Superman should be the strongest hero on Earth because if there were so many checks and balances from other heroes who were his better, his will wouldn't be as shining as it is now. He'd be kept in check by outside forces, not by his good nature.

#12 Posted by Lvenger (20864 posts) - - Show Bio

So many great comments have summed up my views in a very well written way. Superman's Pre Flashpoint and current level is the near perfect balance between not reaching Silver Age ridiculousness whilst still keeping Superman as the most powerful being on the planet who is able to overcome nearly any obstacle put against him with sheer physical might and sheer good will inclined towards doing the right thing no matter what the cost to him may be.

Online
#13 Posted by Novemberx2 (465 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it makes zero difference,

all heroes are practically invincible, because they are protagonists of the story, thus they cannot die.

the only difference between say spiderman and superman is spiderman get injured a lot easier and more frequently so to build tension, because superman is all powerful its more difficult for writers to use an injured superman to build tension. but either way the results are the same... Spiderman wins, Superman wins.

#14 Posted by Whowatchesthewatchmen (81 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is Superman because he is an infinite amount more powerful than everyone but chooses not to be evil, or take charge, and is always holding back.

#15 Posted by westy206 (733 posts) - - Show Bio

I think seeing as he has so many powers they should all be turned down a tiny bit. Apart from him being invulnerable.

This way he needs to really be on the ball and make sure he's doing everything tactically right otherwise if he's so much stronger than everyone else why would he ever use eye beams or if they are so powerful why would he ever bother punching someone.

#16 Posted by Blackstripe (47 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mind there being characters like Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, Captain Atom, Wonder Woman and other such heroes that can rival his power. I think it's really shallow to say that if Superman isn't clearly the absolute strongest, then his character is devalued. Superman is more than that.

Now, for me Superman should be humble regardless of how powerful he is. He should be kind, noble and mature. He shouldn't never be cocky or rash, except in stories set in his youngest days perhaps. That's the important thing to me. In terms of power levels? It honestly doesn't matter. Superman determines how strong other top tier characters are.

If Superman can lift 'only' 2,500,000 million tons (think about how ridiculous applying 'only' to that sounds), then that automatically means Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom and Wonder Woman can lift somewhere in that ballpark too. If he can move the moon, so can they. In that regard, whether he is Byrne-level, or Silver Age level really doesn't effect his standing relative to the other top tiers.

#17 Posted by JordanIsntSuper (42 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't want superman being able to move planets or turn back time with his powers, that kind of power makes things too easy and it becomes boring. But besides that I don't care how strong he is as long as he has villains that can challenge him and hurt him. Strong villains make superman interesting; without them he's just a super powerful guy that stops all crime without even trying.

#18 Posted by PowerWoman (3457 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman should be as powerful as Pre-beyonder or TOAA

#19 Posted by Blackstripe (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman: You're supposed to explain your reasons, not just state your preference. ;)

#20 Posted by PowerWoman (3457 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackstripe: Superman=good,Justice,power,true,way,and light,he could be beat anyone,any evil being,Could do people could never do things,superman should be infinite powerful,overcome all the difficulties and problems

#21 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Consistent. But none of that SA crap please.

#22 Posted by dum529001 (1649 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mind there being characters like Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, Captain Atom, Wonder Woman and other such heroes that can rival his power. I think it's really shallow to say that if Superman isn't clearly the absolute strongest, then his character is devalued. Superman is more than that.

Now, for me Superman should be humble regardless of how powerful he is. He should be kind, noble and mature. He shouldn't never be cocky or rash, except in stories set in his youngest days perhaps. That's the important thing to me. In terms of power levels? It honestly doesn't matter. Superman determines how strong other top tier characters are.

If Superman can lift 'only' 2,500,000 million tons (think about how ridiculous applying 'only' to that sounds), then that automatically means Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Captain Atom and Wonder Woman can lift somewhere in that ballpark too. If he can move the moon, so can they. In that regard, whether he is Byrne-level, or Silver Age level really doesn't effect his standing relative to the other top tiers.

Interesting.

#23 Posted by AllStarSuperman (22317 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-Flashpoint

#24 Posted by SOG7dc (7564 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you guys are missing the point of this thread. Let me explain:

Say "Jimmy" wants superman to be the "kryptonian god". I'm asking WHY Jimmy wants that. I think it was @Bezza@ that said he wanted Superman to be weaker (i think he said Byrne levels) my question is why he wants him weaker.

#25 Posted by Kumquatodor (118 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with "powerful Superman" is that you run the risk of having "Oh no! With all my speed and strength, I couldn't save Lois!" despite the fact that Superman was dodging LIGHTNING a few seconds ago.

Powerful Superman raises a question: "How strong is Darkseid/Zod/etc?". If Superman tanks supernavae one minute, how does he manage to hurt similar enemies?

Powerful Superman also de-values the Justice League. If he can think 10000000x faster than a human, what's the point of Batman? If he can casually outrun light, what is the point of the Flash? If he can move planets, what is the point of MM/WW? If he can do all these things, why is there still crime ever?

And when Superman is fighting an equal/stronger opponents, I find myself asking "Why is the planet still in one piece?",

It is just illogical for Superman to be ultra-powerful because that would make him incompetent due to all the crime in the world.

#26 Posted by MetalJimmor (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

@kumquatodor:

The general answer to your last couple points is simple. Superman can't be everywhere at all times.

Batman is useful in the Justice League because his seedy little mind thinks in a way that Superman doesn't. He's suspicious and paranoid and doesn't trust humanity, or even his own comrades, to not cause harm. So he dedicates all his time and energy into gathering detailed intelligence and thinking of ways to counter different threats, and planning for threats that haven't come yet. Superman is an optimist, and is more inclined to wait for the threat to come before dealing with it.

Flash should be faster than Superman anyway, since that's his ONLY power. But beyond that Flash has the speedforce. He can use his faster than light speeds on Earth without destroying it, Superman can't. This is also why Superman can't stop all crime on Earth, because he can't use his maximum speed without damaging the Earth and killing countless people every time he tried to stop a crime on the other side of the world. Beyond that, Superman isn't omniscient so he can't even be aware of every single crime on Earth.

Martian Manhunter has powers Superman doesn't. Telepathy, intangibility, invisibility, and shapeshifting. All of which would be amazingly valuable to Superman on their own, but together it makes Martian Manhunter a highly specialized character for information gathering and infiltration while also being a heavy hitter Superman can rely on.

Wonder Woman is a superior hand to hand fighter than Superman, and though he is the more powerful of the two she comes with an innate resistance to his biggest vulnerability. Magic. She can take on magical foes with ease that might prove fatal to Superman because of the nature of their two power sets.

And the biggest reason the Powerful Superman needs the Justice League is that he simply can't be everywhere at once. If two powerful supervillains are attacking two different cities on Earth and there's a giant meteor being pulled down toward Earth by a third, what could Superman do? Destroy the meteor and leave the two powerhouse villains to kill millions? No, he calls the Justice League. Wonder Woman deals with one villain, Aquaman the other, then Batman gets sent out to deal with the meteor magnet machine as Superman stops the meteor that is already on it's way.

Even the strongest man on Earth needs help sometimes.

#27 Posted by Kumquatodor (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: That would be fine, but the problem is that he CAN go lightspeed on Earth without destroying it. He has obtained TWENTY years worth of medical knoweledge in FIVE MINUTES! He has dodge lightning! He has searched a planet and found a single person in seconds.

"Powerful Superman", as you can see, is just a MAGNET for PIS and CIS. While "just" being as fast as the Flash, this is easily exploited to "Flash can be everywhere at once, so can Supes!"

With WW, she is less vulnerable to magic until the writer decides their equal.

MM, while having more powers, they are rendered useful when Supes becomes a master of disguise and can read atoms.

#28 Edited by MetalJimmor (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

@kumquatodor:

It seems your problem isn't with Powerful Superman so much as it is bad writers. Superman certainly isn't the only character that writers like to ignore established limits, powersets, weaknesses, and basic logic for.

Also. Dodging lightning isn't very impressive when we're discussing characters that can bench press a skyscraper.

#29 Edited by Kumquatodor (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: Very true, my problem is bad writing.

But "Powerful Superman" is a magnet for bad writing. It seems so easy for writers to make Superman unbeatable until the writers need him to be beatable.

And a sidenote: lightning is the speed of light. If Supes dodges that, then why would he ever get hit by anything?

#30 Posted by MetalJimmor (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

@kumquatodor:

Lightning is actually much slower than the speed of light. Lightning is energy, but it isn't light energy, it's electricity. To put it in perspective, a bolt of lightning can move about 140,000 miles per hour. Light travels at about 186,000 miles per second. Light is roughly 4,900 times faster than lightning.

Also. Wolverine seems to have just as much of a draw for bad writers as any Superman. Regenerating from his skeleton? What? And he isn't nearly as powerful as Superman. A bad writer can get a hold of any character. Just ignore those stories and focus on the good ones.

#31 Posted by Kumquatodor (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: I concede with lightning being STL, but it still is ridiculous when Supes gets hit in a fight.

Wolverine is a huge problem to me, even worse than Supes. I'm never sure if Wolvie can die at a missile or if he is essentially Deadpool.

And I would ignore bad writing, but it gets harder to do that when the power level intrude. For instance: New 52 Supes was relatively weak. He was certainly not a push-over, but he could not move a planet. Enter the next writer. Superman went from weaker in one issue to bench-pressing the planet for five days straight with no strain.

#32 Posted by MetalJimmor (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

@kumquatodor:

Super speed has always been a power of his though. His earliest incarnations were still "Faster then a speeding bullet". There's also a lot of characters in DC similarly fast. Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, possibly Aquaman. Other kryptonians. Shazam and Icon as well. You get the idea.

I agree with you on the Wolverine front. I really want to like the character but his regeneration is so inconsistent half the time.

Keep in mind New 52 Superman is a hero who's still developing his powers. He's still exploring and trying to find his upper limit, so it actually makes sense for his powers to take sudden leaps every so often. Superman as a character also holds back a lot, so while he may seem much weaker than he should be it can usually be summed up as him not going ll out.

Really we just need a better editorial who watch out for huge power fluctuations though. That doesn't necessarily mean Superman being powerful is a bad thing on it's own, just that writers need to be more responsible about it. After all, it doesn't matter what the character's strength level is, Wolverine or Superman, even a character with no powers at all, the writers tend to do what they want with the character.

#33 Posted by Kumquatodor (118 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: Superspeed is fine, but he seems to forget about in all of his fights.

10,000,000 tons to planets for 5 days is too huge a jump to deal with.

I would like better editorial. And it is true that "Powerful Superman" is not inherently bad, its just a slippery slope.

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