@saint_wildcard: I sense you want to agree to disagree so I'm fine with ending this short discussion here. We don't agree on many Superman matters anyway so I guess it's to be expected. I just don't get why you'd like a flawed version of Superman when the previous version was human enough to care about but morally good enough to be inspired by.

@w0nd:

Every member on the team became corrupted, and I highly doubt superman "made" them.

Well, I didn’t exactly say that Lord Superman “made” all his teammates evil. They didn’t save Flash sometime before those events; maybe still shaken form that, they decided to try other methods, and who knows, maybe it even worked short term. But from there it pretty much prototype of Injustice.

Justice Lords Lobotomizing doomsday was horrific to everyone.

I need to re-watch this episode. If my memory serves me right, crowd cheered for Lord Superman.

You are correct sir

@lvenger: Could be because I didn't start reading comics (nor was I fan of Superman) till the new 52 started :P . So Superman throwing people of buildings and choking Batman made me smile (and wasn't as shocking to me as to you) but what made me fall in love with the character were moments like the ones in Zero Year and BM/SM (first arc). Im just not a fan of the Superman that is perfect as soon as he puts on the cape that the Donner films and TAS gave us. Im sure I would like some Pre 52 stories, but that wont change the fact that I LOVED the Jeans and Shirt Superman.

@lvenger: Mark Waid had Superman threaten people too. In Post-Crisis, Superman has threatened a lot of people, it's not N52 exclusive.

As far as Lobdell's run is concerned, Geoff is Anti-Monitoring most of his run because he got the N52 characterization all wrong.

@frozen: You're still mad about Superman threatening Batman? Dude, dry your tears, that was a much younger Superman who was a bit impatient and hot headed.

1.) He was much younger then.

2.) He was dazed by the Parademon that blew up.

3.) He heard GL talking about taking him out.

4.) This was the first time they met, he had no idea who Batman and GL were.

5.) Batman attacked first.

6.) Batman deserved it after that last time you inspired speech in Infinite Crisis.

Anyway, that Superman is long gone. That was Morrison's Superman, not Pak, Geoff, Lobdell or anyone else who wrote Superman post-5 year skip.

Lois called him out on it right after. I stand corrected though, the only people who looked shocked were the cops, then the news reporters came

@w0nd: It wasn't the DCAU Superman, it was alternate Superman.

yeah i know, we were talking about the justice lords one.

@superguy1591: He didn't throw people to their dooms in an unpleasant way nor did he terrorise people and put wife beaters in hospital for a long period of time. That's the kind of threatening I don't like to see from Superman. Besides, Mark Waid's so called threat was only to make the gun shop owner see the error of his ways. It's exclusive to New 52 Superman that he threatens people in an unpleasant and completely out of character way. Superman isn't a character that works when threatening others, it misses the point of what Superman is supposed to do and rather than have him try and use his powers to nudge the world to be a better place, those showings have him force his power onto others as an oppressor.

@lvenger: We've been over this, Morrison's Superman was the Golden Age Superman lifted straight from Action Comics # 1 (The original).

In that comic, Superman did the exact same thing...except, he held the politician by his ankle and ran on a telephone wire threatening to drop him. He also threw the wife beater into a wall and, almost certainly, broke his spine. The Golden Age Superman also threw a guy into another county...he didn't catch the guy, the guy died. As far as threats are concerned, JS-JS's Superman made threats after every sentence.

N52 Superman's early depiction was an homage to the truest Superman before Congress and commercialism got a hold of him.

As far as Waid, so it's okay for Superman to make threats as long as it has a lesson to teach?

@superguy1591: Yes I know, it doesn't mean I like it. The main reason why I liked Morrison's early jeans and T shirt Superman stuff was that Superman still did care about people and protecting those who could't protect themselves. That's not from the Golden Age Superman. Were it not for that, I'd be even more critical of New 52 Superman. And dude it is so lost on me as to why you don't want Superman to be a good person. Do you get off on him being a jerk, an angry edgy brute or the low points we've seen of him? Because believe me, even more committed Superman fans than myself have dropped The New 52 completely for the injustice they see being done to Superman amongst other DC characters. In countless reviews whenever the New 52 Superman acts poorly, people always refer to "this isn't how the real Superman would act." That's a problem if ever I saw one.

And really, the truest Superman? Not the version encapsulated in All Star Superman? The GA version may have been the original but the truest version of Superman is one that doesn't act like the GA version does. Who's a good hearted, morally certain and genuinely kind person in a complex, horrible world. Congress and commercialism didn't ruin Superman, they made him better (though I do hate the Silver Age Superman.) By the 1970s, we were getting the real kind of Superman stories that made the character the icon he is, one who was still a good person but faced with real, daunting problems. And then in the modern era, that hit its peak with a lot of strong runs on Superman. Vastly superior than the current runs.

i agree the first of the post

I liked him. The personality and the whole vibe you got from him was awesome. His power nefing didn't really seem all that bad. At the end of the day he was still one the most powerful leaguers. Though i didn't understand his extra vulnerability to electricity. Seemed odd.

Just wanna share my opinion on New 52 superman.

Personally i'm disgusted with how easily i was led astray by some of the viners here who dislike the new 52 superman. Normally i like giving things a chance but i broke out my pitchfork and torch with new 52 Superman. Then i decided to back and read my justice league trade paper backs and some of the other new 52 superman stories and i was astonished by what i found. He's not that bad [i can't stress that enough]. In justice league origin yeah he attacked green lantern and bats but only because they attacked first and he was curious to see what they knew. After realising they were fighting the good fight he had no trouble fighting alongside them. Throughout the book he was quiet but when he spoke people listened. The reason is perfectly summed up by the flash in book two and it is because he his charismatic. In throne of atlantis he saved people. I don't know why viners like Lvenger and others are saying he's stopped saving people when in said book as soon as he saw the wave was coming he jumped to people's rescue stopping the aircraft carrier. Yeah he doesn't talk as much but that's mainly because he's a more tactical fighter ending things quickly because he knows he can. He is not arrogant nor does he think himself over anybody. In fact the way he shows wonder woman why he likes being clark kent is one of the most heart warming things i've seen him do in a long time. Then we have the trinity war and the dreaded doctor light incident. First of all i implore people to pick up the trinity war TPB and read it throughly. Superman was that distressed because he thought he'd killed someone that he ended the fight between the justice league and the JLA and let himself be taken into custody. Wonder woman even said that he may not come back from it. Now we could have him spending the rest of his life brooding over it and thinking woe is me but rather he moved past it and is becoming a better hero. Yes he's recently killed doomsday but then what did he do. He showed his level of commitment to saving people and took all of the doomsday particles into himself and became doomsday's new prision. Personally i believe new 52 superman is going to surpass pre 52 superman and become a better superman in the same way i believe MOS superman will become better than Reeve's superman. It will take time but i'm sure it will happen.

Peace.

@lvenger:

1.) I don't want Superman to be a jerk, that's the last thing I want from Superman, I just want Superman not to be a punching bag to a certain character that always gets away with it. Instead of the Post-Crisis' "turn the other cheek" mentality, I would much rather get a Cyclops or Captain America character who stands up to the punk and calls him out on it. Whenever Superman allows that happen it pisses me off, he's supposed to be the guy that looks out for his teammates. That is why I prefer N52 Superman, he won't allow it.

As far as Superman being a good person, it's clear that you and I have differing opinions on what that means. I consider a good person as a person who wants to do good, no matter how much he's tempted to cross the line. Doesn't mean that ever once in a while he can't accidentally cross over, it just means that when he does, he learns from it and becomes a better man (Byrne's Superman was a good characterization with killing Zod and junk). You want him to be a moral paragon of virtue and honor who stays white and strays to light grey. You misunderstand me if you think I want Superman to start killing people left and right, I don't, I just want him to come across as a real person.

As far as some of the people dropping the N52, I notice them. They're not really Superman fans as much as they're fans of nostalgia, conservatism and popular ideals. They want Superman's shorts back. Why? Because he wore them from 1938-2011. No collar, too! Otherwise, besides the 22 year old Kal being immature in the early days of the N52, he's yet to become this jerk that you claim he is.

Finally, I don't like All-Star Superman, not because of the characterization or anything, but purely due to my dislike for Morrison's work. The Jimmy and Bizzaro storylines were too much for me, I didn't know what I was reading and, when I did, I was uncomfortable/weirded out. The art didn't help the case either, I wanted to throw up. I've always conceded that Morrison's writing is too smart for me.

Also, you can't claim to hate SA Superman, but think Congress and Capitalism didn't ruin the character. Because listeners wanted to hear new and more exciting tales, Superman develop more and more powers until we had the SA version. Due to congress, he went from a social crusader to a flag totter who taught us nothing and fought for no one.

And don't doubt N52 Supes just yet, once Pak is done with Doomed and with Geoff working Superman, N52 Superman is about to reach levels of awesome that will last a decade.

He was the best Superman ever.

I don't care if his powers were nerfed, it was a MUCH needed nerf. It's pretty hard to take a guy seriously when hes with a team who are all weaker than him by far and can bench press earth plus has heat vision>freeze breathe, ray vision etc.

I don't even think most Superman fans realize how OP Superman is seriously.

Ignore Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Dr. Fate, and Flash being equal or more powerful than him. They were also nerfed and MM was one-shotted many times throughout the series.

He was great in Superman:TAS

Season one of JL he was a bit dull, but season 2-JLU, he was awesome, and a bit darker than I thought they would make him.

@the_stegman: Yeah even the creators of the show admit they did a pretty bad job with Supes in the first season.

Superman is only likeable to me when he is fighting or being a bro for the little guy, the whole I'm the big boyscout fucks it up for me. That's why I like Young Justice Superman better than any of the other Animated Supermen.