I've just had an article about the need for escapism in film and how we need a character like Superman.

You can read it here: http://goodmoviesbadmovies.com/2013/06/18/we-need-escapism-we-need-superman/

Nah. Deep, compelling introspection>Fantasy escapism

Lucid Schizophrenia > Deep, compelling introspection... :D

Superman's creator created him out of escapism in a way. (In the lack of a father figure)

Superman and Batman at the start, before the silver age, where pretty damn serious and had a more social background, Wonder Woman was design because of this and as a strong female model, that ws still a female model.

Heck, Batman lived on New York and his villain had no fantasy at all on them, The Joker in TDK is the first Joker we saw in the comics.

Heck Batman from the Nolanverse ending, looks like Earth 2/Golden Age Batman with the fact he retire, leaves Robin to be Batman and goe to live happy with Selina.

People often ignore this and decide to belive the Silver Age was the start of everything, the weird nutjob years and they where never serious and had no social background behind them.

People often forgets the most succesfull movie of all time, Gone with the wind, says screw escapisms and the movie show you living in a fantasy is bad and punish everybody because of this.

People like you though, often forget that the highest grossing movies of all time include the Marvel Cinematic Universe, The Harry Potter series, The Star Wars series, and the James Bond series.

A story with deep compelling introspection AND fantasy escapism trumps either extreme...you extremist.

@nerx said:

@knightrise said:

Nah. Deep, compelling introspection>Fantasy escapism

Ha! So much this!

This is a myth, only Star Wars is in that list, by tickets sell Avengers is in the number 35 of the most succesfull movies of all time, Hollywood dont use tickets sales number, because this number is getting smaller, if Gone With The Wind came out the same year that Avengers without 3D would had made over 3 billion bucks without a problem.

Star Wars is not about escapism, it has a backgorund and is not mindless fun, those are the Prequels, everybody hated the Prequels for that reason, it deal with big problems that people often ignores so the escapism argument looks valid.

The Original Star Wars trilogy sold more tickets that the Harry Potter franchise, the Marvel Movies and The Lord of The Rings.

The more expensive the ticket is, the bigger that movie box office number are, that dont mean they are selling more tickets, this is a myth based on the fallacy that box office = ticket sells.

202,044,600 tickets for Gone With the Wind

76,768,200 tickets for the Avengers

74,455,400 tickets for The Dark Knight

57,601,400 tickets for Rises.

50,422,400 ticktes for Ironman 3.

Where has it been established that you can't have fun while having mature introspection?

^This.

Good man

Considering Gone with the Wind wasn't released in modern times and never got as much money as as the ones you put it in with, makes ticket sales:

@perezite: So tickets sales dont count, how many times people see them dont count, how much they love them dont count, the only that counts is the money argument.

Horrible dumb argument, because that mean the best movie of all time is Avatar because it curbstomps the Avengers box office and the second best movie of all times is Titanic that also curbstomps the Avengers.

Is called inflation, just because the numbers are bigger dont mean it made more money, because the value of money changed with the years.

$2,782,275,172 to Avatar

$1,511,757,910 to The Avengers

In economics, inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.^[1] When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. Consequently, inflation reflects a reduction in the purchasing power per unit of money – a loss of real value in the medium of exchange and unit of account within the economy.^[2][3] A chief measure of price inflation is the inflation rate, the annualized percentage change in a general price index (normally the consumer price index) over time.^[4]

Basic economics say, if you adjust the inflation so the tickets sales fit the prices for the year Avatar came out:

$3,301,400,000 to Gone with The Wind, yes it curbstomp Avatar.

Yeah...and in that top ten adjusted for inflation thingy, HOW MANY of those were movies with strong escapist, fantastical, and or block buster elements?

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

According to Box Office Mojo, about eight.

1. Star Wars

2. The Sound of Music.

3. Titanic.

4. The Ten Commandments.

5. Jaws.

6. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

7. 101 Dalmatians.

Also, could you HONESTLY say that, if gone with the wind were to be released now, that it would make half as much money as the big movies with said strong escapist, fantastical, and block-buster elements? That's the point I'm trying to make. In this present moment in history, NOT decades ago in the 40's, escapism, the fantastical, and the block-buster are generally larger crowd drawers AND pleasers than the depressing or introspective type movies that have nothing else but drama to drive them and it's often the movies that can combine both that do the best in this day and age of ours. Saying Gone with the Wind is the highest grossing movie of all time when adjusted for ticket price inflation and great and all, but irrelevant to our time. A time where a similar drama like Gatsby has to have someone like Jay-Z doing the music for it (some would say completely ruining the 1920's atmosphere, but I haven't seen the movie, so I can't say) in order to get the kind of money that studios like Pixar or Dream Works and genres like the Superhero movies get all the time.

@perezite: Star Wars was about the heroism, Luke family dies and loses everything, not escapism.

The Sound of Music is about Nazis, not escapism.

Titanic is about love, but the love story end in tragedy, not escapism.

The Ten Commandment is a Bibble movie, not escapism.

Jaws is about a the social problem a shark cause to society, not escapism

Snow White is a fairy tale, fairy tales have dark and sinister morals, not escapism.

101 Dalmatians is about animal rights, not escapism.

This movies deal with real problems in a fantasy way, but they deal with them.

Star Wars even deal with problem with the father figure, is not about leaving reallity because reallity suck and i want to live in a fantasy world without reallity in it.

If movies should be just mindless fun and being Fast Food, i have no problem with al movies being like Micheal Bay movies, i have problem with people that belive movies should be banal superficial cgi plotless messes.

Was Toy Story 3 about escapism?, they where going to die at the last scene, wwas about moving forwad in your life, Shrek was about how people care about the looks more that the essence of people, if you cant get the message of this movies and notice real dealing with real problem, you have severe problems dude.

Also Superhero movies dont make money, The Incredible Hulk failed, Captain America was only won like 20 million dollars, Watchmen won little money and some Superhero movies made money thanks to 3D, without 3D would had failed.

Inception is in the top 200 most succesfull movie of all time by tickets sale, was fun as hell, had action scenes, great SFX and a plot.

People hate it because it shows, introspective movies dont have to be boring and that fantasy movies dont have to be senseless escapism.

Also it made more money that several Superhero movies put together.

You confuse escapism with fantasy, escapism is not dealing with problems and reallity, thats why many people hate those movies.

The character arent humans, are robots, so what is the point?

Transformers is the best example of escapism.

The Harry Potter series and Star Wars series are horrible examples. Over half the characters died before the end of the series. They were basically real stories in fantastic settings.

I'm confused.

• For her part, JK Rowling says that the central theme is death: "The theme of how we react to death, how much we fear it. Of course, I think which is a key part of the book because Voldemort is someone who will do anything not to die. He's terrified of death. And in many ways, all of my characters are defined by their attitude to death and the possibility of death."
  • Dumbledore orders his own death by Snape after he's poisoned to death trying to destroy the Hocrux.
  • Snape dies after being betrayed by Voldemort, loses the love of his life to his archenemy, to getting said love killed.
  • list of casualties from final battle
  • just reread the series, you'll see how grim it is

You can have both together you know.

My whole point was this, i never saw Harry Pottrer enough to see what was going on, but i notice it deals with real problems, reallity is there, escapism is about leaving reallity.

Skyfall the most succesfull Bond movie is about the Oedipus complex that Bond and Silva have, is about Kain and Abel and how brothers compete for the love of his mother, also about a horribly bad mother figure and explain Bond is prety much a sex maniac because of his Oedipus complex, he uses sex because he need to feel the love of a woman, very real problems.

Avatar the most succefull modern movie, is exploring the western civilizations material obsession and so call superiority, the beauty of nature and our dwindling awe of it, the nature of allegiance and sacrifice, not escapism.