The DC New 52 isnt doing what it set out to do with Superman

#1 Posted by satankid (6 posts) - - Show Bio

This latest attempt at getting the “whipper snappers” back into reading comics has failed on every point. Making Superman in his 20’s and smarmy just caters to what 50 year old writers and artists THINK kids act. It makes no sense to revamp and modernize a hero (or just take his red under-roos off) by using Dan Jurgens and George Perez who was a veteran 20 years ago. they’re not new and they have no idea how this new generation sees themselves or the world.Get new talent and give other artists and writers a shot!

#2 Posted by Lvenger (19129 posts) - - Show Bio

Action Comics is a great, enjoyable read. Morrison is doing interesting things with Superman whilst keeping to his essential roots. However I completely agree with your points about the Superman series. The series is floundering under Perez and Jurgens. The story is rehashed plot points over and over, there's nothing unique about the title. I've already dropped it as I've had enough of the poor quality of the title. Lobdell and Rocafort could surprise me but given his work on Superboy and the Teen Titans, I doubt it.

#3 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Ac is awesome...but yeah...the Superman title is suffering...Should have just let Grant write both titles...

#4 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

Ac is awesome...but yeah...the Superman title is suffering...Should have just let Grant write both titles...

They really should. The only negative I have with Action is that it's still stuck in the past.

#5 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@ThanosIsMad said:

@SandMan_ said:

Ac is awesome...but yeah...the Superman title is suffering...Should have just let Grant write both titles...

They really should. The only negative I have with Action is that it's still stuck in the past.

The Superman title is kinda ruining what Action Comics is trying to do...
#6 Posted by Lvenger (19129 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThanosIsMad said:

@SandMan_ said:

Ac is awesome...but yeah...the Superman title is suffering...Should have just let Grant write both titles...

They really should. The only negative I have with Action is that it's still stuck in the past.

Isn't issue 10 set in the present? Although I haven't read it yet, I spoiled myself slightly by looking at the images on here and I saw Superman talking with the Justice League. Or is it still set in the past, just a bit further on from the first story arc?

#7 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

No it's still set in the past which is great IMO. I love to read more of the younger brasher superman. Also I'm totally On board with what dc has been doIng with Superman. Perez's run was a mess. jurgens run started strong but has gotten pretty weak. The last issue won me back a little but nevertheless I'm still excited about Scott coming onboard

#8 Posted by Lvenger (19129 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Thanks for that. That's all I want to know till I read it.

#9 Posted by Z3RO180 (6431 posts) - - Show Bio

I have read the first three issues of the superman title and i liked them but the writer has said that DC has resircted what he could do causeing a lot of rewrites on every issue of his run but the new creavite team of Lobdell and Rocafort will be great for the suprman title. Red Hood and The Outlaws is an amazing read As well as Superboy I read both these titles and they are really good so with Lobdell and Rocafort both working on the superman title will be great for it.

#10 Posted by mattydeNero (525 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me preface by saying I'm a long-time Superman reader and fan. After reading the horrible conclusion to issue #10 yesterday, I have totally put the previous year out of my mind. Nothing major happened in Superman in 2012, which leads me to believe that if there was a title DC could've gone without in the first wave, it unfortunately was Supes' self-titled IMO. But what's done is done. My main concern now is what Scott Lobdell is going to bring to the table. Teen Titans, Ravagers, Superboy...those are "teen" themed books that can get away with going way outside of the box to get the story across. If anyone has read those books, you'll know what I'm talking about. Superman needs big, bad, powerful villains. We have yet to see hardly any of Supes' classic rogues. Now, rumor has it that Lobdell is going to take a crack at Bizarro. Should be interesting. I just hope Supes gets rolling with issue #0. Thank goodness the character has Grant Morrison in his corner.

#11 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lvenger said:

@ThanosIsMad said:

@SandMan_ said:

Ac is awesome...but yeah...the Superman title is suffering...Should have just let Grant write both titles...

They really should. The only negative I have with Action is that it's still stuck in the past.

Isn't issue 10 set in the present? Although I haven't read it yet, I spoiled myself slightly by looking at the images on here and I saw Superman talking with the Justice League. Or is it still set in the past, just a bit further on from the first story arc?

The present comes in issue 14.
#12 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattydee007 said:

Let me preface by saying I'm a long-time Superman reader and fan. After reading the horrible conclusion to issue #10 yesterday, I have totally put the previous year out of my mind. Nothing major happened in Superman in 2012, which leads me to believe that if there was a title DC could've gone without in the first wave, it unfortunately was Supes' self-titled IMO. But what's done is done. My main concern now is what Scott Lobdell is going to bring to the table. Teen Titans, Ravagers, Superboy...those are "teen" themed books that can get away with going way outside of the box to get the story across. If anyone has read those books, you'll know what I'm talking about. Superman needs big, bad, powerful villains. We have yet to see hardly any of Supes' classic rogues. Now, rumor has it that Lobdell is going to take a crack at Bizarro. Should be interesting. I just hope Supes gets rolling with issue #0. Thank goodness the character has Grant Morrison in his corner.

Uhm, he is taking a crack at Eradicator and majorly retconning how the eradicator came about. They're called the Eradicators now and might have to do with a war on Krypton before it was destroyed. He might possibly do something about Bizarro but not yet, he did say he is going to revamp some of the older villains, and pointed out how they could be more realistic like Bizarro and Toyman.

#13 Posted by sinestro_GL (3122 posts) - - Show Bio

I dropped the Superman title about 4 issues back. It was SUCH a shame. During last between March and September of last year, I became a HUGE Superman fan and was super excited for the reboot of Superman - I felt somewhat betrayed by the writing team.

Sure Action Comics is great and all...but I'm not feeling any of the Superman love that I felt this time last year.

#14 Posted by Lvenger (19129 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: Cool thanks for that. @mattydee007 said:

Let me preface by saying I'm a long-time Superman reader and fan. After reading the horrible conclusion to issue #10 yesterday, I have totally put the previous year out of my mind. Nothing major happened in Superman in 2012, which leads me to believe that if there was a title DC could've gone without in the first wave, it unfortunately was Supes' self-titled IMO. But what's done is done. My main concern now is what Scott Lobdell is going to bring to the table. Teen Titans, Ravagers, Superboy...those are "teen" themed books that can get away with going way outside of the box to get the story across. If anyone has read those books, you'll know what I'm talking about. Superman needs big, bad, powerful villains. We have yet to see hardly any of Supes' classic rogues. Now, rumor has it that Lobdell is going to take a crack at Bizarro. Should be interesting. I just hope Supes gets rolling with issue #0. Thank goodness the character has Grant Morrison in his corner.

To be honest I don't trust Lobdell any more than Jurgens. His work on Superboy and the Titans has been quite disappointing so I'm not holding out any hopes whether he can improve the series. In fact I've dropped Superman. Action Comics and Justice League are far better reads for Superman fans IMO.

#15 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lvenger: DC really needs to get their head of the gutter. Superman needs new blood. Young writer. Superman, despite contrary belief, is a character that can work on any genre. Sci-Fi, horror, Fantasy, ect. You just need a GREAT creative team with GREAT ideas and your all set.
#16 Posted by Lvenger (19129 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: Shame we currently have neither a great creative team nor any great ideas. DC seem to be focusing exclusively on Batman rather than the character which made it all possible. A real shame. Batman doesn't need 4 individual titles and besides I'm not a fan of Tony Daniels' writing having endured it for a while pre new 52 and until recently, the Dark Knight hasn't been much good either.

#17 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lvenger: DC seems to be paying attention only to Batman. Which is a shame like you said. Batman has been successful for a couple of years now. They really need to pay attention to Supes now. Especially with his movie coming out next year. They really should fire Superman's editor or change him.
#18 Posted by Lvenger (19129 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: You mean Matt Idelson? And what exactly is an editor's job on a comic book?

#19 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is the hardest comic character to write for. I can't wait for the days where issue after issue of a Superman comic are consistently rated high.

#20 Posted by Hemen (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, i dont care about the Superman title. The Action Comics title is what sells most and is what is most important for Superman. As long as the Action Comics title does well that is what counts.

#21 Posted by SuperJimmy (20 posts) - - Show Bio

I think superman needs some more exploration into krypton's origin and all that. Make it a mysterious story like image's saga or something (I mean what happened on krypton), leaving some intriguing hints, and then let superman solve the mysteries and learn from his own culture and what he can do with it to help our planet. That'd be a great story with actions and cool discoveries and deeper meanings if done right.

#22 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive: Probably...But if you analyze... Superman is actually a very flexible character...He is able to fit in many genres...
#23 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: I can only see him fitting in the Superhero, and Sci-Fi genres. I do not see a suspenseful Superman story at ALL. Or a dark one, for that matter.

Psychological, sure. But that's about it. It is a shame too. Superman is my favorite comic character of all time, and yet, I have to endure more bad than good.

#24 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive: Who knows? Maybe he can actually fit in other genres too. All you need is a great writer with a great imagination.
#25 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: Very true. Scott Snyder said he'd love to write for Superman. He said he'd do a dark story. I want to see how that would work.

#26 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive: We need someone like Scott Snyder on the Superman title ASAP
#27 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: Agreed wholeheartedly.

#28 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive: Let's see what Lobdell does...Can't be worse...
#29 Posted by TheTimShow (78 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey, the New 52 brought me into comics and I think they did a pretty good job on it (with the exception of Perez's Superman).

#30 Posted by mattydeNero (525 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

Superman is the hardest comic character to write for. I can't wait for the days where issue after issue of a Superman comic are consistently rated high.

I totally agree. Maybe not so much wanting high "ratings" but at least good stories we'll always remember.

#31 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattydee007: True. But I guess they go hand in hand.

#32 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Twentyfive: Just give both Titles to Grant Morrison and tell him he can do what he wants.
#33 Posted by SupahForeigner (227 posts) - - Show Bio

I find the current Superman title such a let down for such an iconic character. Hopefully some changes are under-way soon and I pray that it's not Scott Lobdell; his already ruined two titles, one of them being one of my favourite characters.

#34 Posted by Zulu300 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

what is the difrence to the series, have only JLA and AC and I love' em. The heroes from JLA are all have new begins I think, but Batman is not starting over in his series, Please teel me if I am wrong :) and explain,

#35 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is easy to write for. The problem is that the "creative" teams of DC right now is mainly garbage and they all fall into the common trap of "he's too powerful and therefor not understandable" Everyone can relate to Superman, most people in both ways that he is relatable. We have all been Children and we looked up to someone that we thought was great. And Most of us have been put in a place where we had absolute authority over a situation and we had to make a call on whether to do x or y. People for some reason don't realize that they can relate to superman in the second mode and because the writers also don't they don't understand the character and can't right a good story.

#36 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

Superman is easy to write for. The problem is that the "creative" teams of DC right now is mainly garbage and they all fall into the common trap of "he's too powerful and therefor not understandable" Everyone can relate to Superman, most people in both ways that he is relatable. We have all been Children and we looked up to someone that we thought was great. And Most of us have been put in a place where we had absolute authority over a situation and we had to make a call on whether to do x or y. People for some reason don't realize that they can relate to superman in the second mode and because the writers also don't they don't understand the character and can't right a good story.

You obviously have not read the new 52 superman. please put some thoughts into your posts.

Superman have been depowered so much that he is nothing like "too powerful and therefore not understandable"

Additionally, Action comics has made Superman really relatable and if anything Grant Morrison is the writer who understand Superman the most. Considering he wrote one of the best story - All Star Superman. Even in all star, he was over the top powerful and it was one of the most sold comics for YEARS!

Also please don't pretend you're only talking about the superman title because you mentioned creative teams and its obviously you meant more than one.

#37 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Durakken said:

Superman is easy to write for. The problem is that the "creative" teams of DC right now is mainly garbage and they all fall into the common trap of "he's too powerful and therefor not understandable" Everyone can relate to Superman, most people in both ways that he is relatable. We have all been Children and we looked up to someone that we thought was great. And Most of us have been put in a place where we had absolute authority over a situation and we had to make a call on whether to do x or y. People for some reason don't realize that they can relate to superman in the second mode and because the writers also don't they don't understand the character and can't right a good story.

You obviously have not read the new 52 superman. please put some thoughts into your posts.

Superman have been depowered so much that he is nothing like "too powerful and therefore not understandable"

Additionally, Action comics has made Superman really relatable and if anything Grant Morrison is the writer who understand Superman the most. Considering he wrote one of the best story - All Star Superman. Even in all star, he was over the top powerful and it was one of the most sold comics for YEARS!

Also please don't pretend you're only talking about the superman title because you mentioned creative teams and its obviously you meant more than one.

#1 Please actually read and comprehend before responding.

#2 New 52 Superman is trash, just like most of the other New 52 versions of characters.

#3 Everyone, including the DC creative teams say that he's too powerful which makes it so he's not understandable. I said that that is bullshit and that thinking is responsible for how bad Superman is written most of the time.

#4 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Action Comics and Superman are just barely readable titles that show a complete lack of understanding how characters develop over time, that a character does not fundamentally change like they want you to believe. But it is also a little bit worse than that because if you read the two side by side the character shown in Action Comics and Superman have different personalities, motivations, and power levels. So radically that they might as well be referred to as two different characters. If you consider either "good" you either have low standards or are way too forgiving.

#5 Nope, I'm not talking about just the current team, because they aren't the only ones involved in the direction that was decided upon. From what I understand there was a large meeting between all the writers, editors, etc and they discussed what they wanted to do and the direction of most if not all the titles to some degree. So while I believe that there is someone on some of the teams that know what they're doing and just got shafted (Gail Simone probably) the majority simply don't get it and I never pretended to talk about anything else.

#6 As to Morrison writing a pretty crap book. Certain people are only good when they are writing in their element. Action Comics Flashpoint is not Morrison's element. Justice League Flashpoint is not Geoff Johns's element. Any Lobdell book he is currently writing, not his element. There is a huge difference between writing the way Morrison wrote All Star Superman and what is required for Action Comics, and the same can be said of Geoff Johns and several others. While I don't have any doubt that these guys are good writers when they write what is in their wheel house (Batman RIP for example) and I love them when they are doing that, but when they are doing these other things it is just painful for me, because they don't understand the characters or are too limited or something. If there is one person I blame all of what I hate about DC on I'd go with Dan Didio most likely based on what I have heard about his views on many things and the fact that he is in charge. If I could have a second person to blame it on I'd go with Jim Lee. Those two are probably the worst things that have happened DC, but that is just my opinion.

#38 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken: I can safely say that you have no idea what you're talking about. I doubt you even read a single issue of Superman or action comics.

#39 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: And I can safely say that regardless of your denial the facts remain the same and some other meaner things that I'm not sure I'm allowed to say on these forums. More over, if you have nothing to say, which you clearly do not, other than running your foot into your own mouth, you should say nothing at all.

#40 Posted by Hemen (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken: Retard, Action Comics is the third best selling dc title and is actually quite good you fat cunt who can only bench 5 pounds,

#41 Edited by capelesscrusader (103 posts) - - Show Bio

The biggest problem with the Superman books is that his supporting cast has been largely sidelined. For decades, Lois Lane served a critical role to the stories by leaping into situations that, in the real world, would have gotten a reporter killed. She was able to delve into complex issues of government corruption, underworld activity, and corporate abuses because Superman would always be there to save her.

By relegating Lois to a behind-the-desk role in the main Superman title, they have taken away what has, for nearly all of the character's 80+ year history, been his "muse".

Want good Superman stories? Have Lois get out from behind her desk and running around Metropolis again.

-----

CapelessCrusader.org

#42 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hemen: That only goes to show what low quality garbage can be sold to people. It doesn't mean anything as far as quality is concerned

#43 Posted by Hemen (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay first Durakken i am sorry for the insults and words i said to you.

Two, You are right about that many things with low quality can sell good (if it has good marketing behind). But i personally like the Action Comics book and find it being good quality. You should read the first issue. Again i apologize for being rude.

#44 Posted by daw327 (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare:

They should in some of Superman's interesting villains like Livewire, Volcana, and Neutron! (But yeah! They should also include Bizarro and The Toyman!)

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