The day the music died(SPOILERS For Superman/Batman)

#1 Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude (2633 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay so I've been reading Superman/Batman, the New 52 version. The first arc has New 52 Supes and Bats meeting Earth 2 Superman and Batman. The only two characters I've seen in the New 52 who behave and act exactly like their pre-New 52 counterparts. The characters I wanted to have their OWN series!!!!! Have been officially replaced with the darker, ruthless, and dangerous, main universe New 52 versions. This all happened in Superman/Batman. The only reason I was reading it was because I wanted to experience the GOOD Superman and Batman. This is what happened.

Some being from Apokolips, they never said who it was and I didn't recognize it, had pulled N52 Supes and Bats to the Earth 2 universe. And then after fighting off some villains the Apokoliptian said that it approves of the N52 Superman and Batman. Saying, and I quote,

"Ruthless, raw and dangerous"

So yeah!! The New 52 Superman and Batman are ENDORSED BY APOKOLIPS!!!! AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT FINDS THIS UNSETTLING?!?!? DC IS OUTRIGHT SAYING AND CONFIRMING THAT THE DARKER, EDGIER, AND BLATANTLY 90'S STYLED SUPERMAN AND BATMAN ARE BETTER THAN THE VERSIONS OF THEM THAT ARE IN NEARLY EVER FACET THEIR PRE-NEW 52 SELVES!!!

And believe it or not. That scene wasn't the worst. Oh no. They went FURTHER!! It's the scene that takes place AFTER the first one is what ticked me off the most. That officially killed any tiny shred of faith I had in DC's comics division.

Earth 2 Superman. The Superman that was in fact the living reincarnation of pre-New 52 Superman. The Superman that SHOULD have been the mainstream Superman in the reboot............ CONDONES THE NEW 52 SUPERMAN!!! HE CONDONES THE CLEARLY RECKLESS, AGGRESSIVE AND DANGEROUS PERSON WHO HAS ALL OF HIS POWERS!!!

So yeah............... To those at DC?

#2 Posted by JLDoom (2310 posts) - - Show Bio

Kind of an overreaction if you ask me...

#3 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2633 posts) - - Show Bio

@jldoom: I'm already going through the idiotic darker fake Spider-Man over at Marvel. This is just DC hopping on the bandwagon and trying to condone the way they are portraying their mainstream Superman by having one that's basically the Superman everyone already knows and loves and grew up with, saying that this new Superman who's clearly a loose cannon is doing a good job. He even calls him DANGEROUS!!!

#4 Edited by cameron83 (7185 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude said:

@jldoom: I'm already going through the idiotic darker fake Spider-Man over at Marvel. This is just DC hopping on the bandwagon and trying to condone the way they are portraying their mainstream Superman by having one that's basically the Superman everyone already knows and loves and grew up with, saying that this new Superman who's clearly a loose cannon is doing a good job. He even calls him DANGEROUS!!!

I think DC doesn't even care about their old universe anymore. Sooner or later they may make a statement in their comic in which they might make a shot against the old universe and say something like "out with the old,in with the new" or something like that. They are never going back to the old universe,the dye has definitely been cast.

I only read the new 52 stuff for events that seem slightly interesting,like Trinity War (it looks interesting,so I just wanna see how it is). It still has some fun stories (like the Batman stuff),but overall...I don't like it.

At the same time,the old universe had many many many many many many faults,especially near the end where it seemed as if DC stopped trying,so maybe they could do a partial reboot,but only keep the good/essential parts.

One of the things I liked was the depowerment of the Flash. He was so powerful in the old universe that it made no sense for him to even have enemies.

#5 Edited by JLDoom (2310 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude: I still think you should calm down, man. It's not worth it. I haven't even read the story, I'm just saying it's not worth getting worked up about.

#6 Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude (2633 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: It's just things like this where I cannot HELP but complain and voice my opinion on it.

As for DC towards the end? Yeah I admit, it was FAR from perfect. However it only got that messed up due to things like Amazons Attack, Countdown(Which was just stupidity personified and had NOTHING to do with Infinite Crisis), and Cry for Justice. Yeah they should have rebooted. Rebooted in the sense of removing all the clutter of those horrible events, while leaving everything basically the same. To unburden the universe so it would have a cleaner and fresher feel to it.

#7 Posted by cameron83 (7185 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: It's just things like this where I cannot HELP but complain and voice my opinion on it.

As for DC towards the end? Yeah I admit, it was FAR from perfect. However it only got that messed up due to things like Amazons Attack, Countdown(Which was just stupidity personified and had NOTHING to do with Infinite Crisis), and Cry for Justice. Yeah they should have rebooted. Rebooted in the sense of removing all the clutter of those horrible events, while leaving everything basically the same.

It's funny because those were the exact events I was referring to :)

#8 Posted by danhimself (22481 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude: I agree with your entire post...I even said something similar to it after the last issue

#9 Edited by JetiiMitra (8479 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree-ish with your points, but not to the same extent. I took it to mean that the title will be about them maturing into the heroes that the Earth 2 versions are. Or at least closer. Batman and Superman in this title don't even bear resemblance to the ones in their own titles or JL. Since this is still really early in the game chronologically, there's plenty of time for them to get there.

As far as Earth 2 being the "living reincarnation of pre-New 52 Superman," he wasn't. He believed that both Bruce and himself were infallible and openly admitted that he believed he should be the most powerful being on Earth. As for him condoning our Superman, he doesn't. He says "When the time came, you did the right thing. Remember that." I don't believe he was talking about the shard. I think he was talking about saving Lois and Catwoman. That was the only "time" that mattered, because obviously he didn't think keeping the shard was the right thing to do.

#10 Posted by ShadowSwordmaster (13612 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: I agree with you on that and didn't Kaiyo wanted to stop darkseid in the first place ?

#11 Posted by JetiiMitra (8479 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: I agree with you on that and didn't Kaiyo wanted to stop darkseid in the first place ?

No, she was just running from him.

#12 Posted by ShadowSwordmaster (13612 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran: That's right and it said it in Darkseid villains month book too if I remember.

#13 Edited by Saint_Wildcard (10114 posts) - - Show Bio

This is sooooooooooo interesting.

#14 Posted by PapiNacho (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think it would be actually exiting for a Pre52 fan because it hints at where Greg Pak wants to take the character in his future run. He is reminding his younger self that at the core he is the same person and that he can choose to be better.

#15 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1405 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

As for him condoning our Superman, he doesn't. He says "When the time came, you did the right thing. Remember that." I don't believe he was talking about the shard. I think he was talking about saving Lois and Catwoman. That was the only "time" that mattered, because obviously he didn't think keeping the shard was the right thing to do.

I would think it would be actually exiting for a Pre52 fan because it hints at where Greg Pak wants to take the character in his future run. He is reminding his younger self that at the core he is the same person and that he can choose to be better.

These were basically my thoughts on the issue.

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#16 Posted by Squalleon (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

As for him condoning our Superman, he doesn't. He says "When the time came, you did the right thing. Remember that." I don't believe he was talking about the shard. I think he was talking about saving Lois and Catwoman. That was the only "time" that mattered, because obviously he didn't think keeping the shard was the right thing to do.

@papinacho said:

I would think it would be actually exiting for a Pre52 fan because it hints at where Greg Pak wants to take the character in his future run. He is reminding his younger self that at the core he is the same person and that he can choose to be better.

These were basically my thoughts on the issue.

I agree with the previous posters.

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#17 Posted by SanoHibiki (1521 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesmfan said:

@mitran said:

As for him condoning our Superman, he doesn't. He says "When the time came, you did the right thing. Remember that." I don't believe he was talking about the shard. I think he was talking about saving Lois and Catwoman. That was the only "time" that mattered, because obviously he didn't think keeping the shard was the right thing to do.

@papinacho said:

I would think it would be actually exiting for a Pre52 fan because it hints at where Greg Pak wants to take the character in his future run. He is reminding his younger self that at the core he is the same person and that he can choose to be better.

These were basically my thoughts on the issue.

I agree with the previous posters.

I concur.

#18 Posted by Jake Fury (18384 posts) - - Show Bio

My thoughts:

The point (IMO) was that the younger versions of Clark & Bruce would one day live up to the high standards set by their older and more mature Earth 2 counterparts. Superman showed glimpses when he saved E2 Lois and Catwoman.

Just my 2 cents.

#19 Edited by TheAcidSkull (17923 posts) - - Show Bio

you misunderstood the Point of what that scene was trying to do.

The fact that the younger versions of batman and superman were able to make the right choice while the older wiser ones decided that they should be the main enforcers of earth without any fail safe shows that when the new 52 versions grow up they'll be better heroes.

Trickster thought that the younger versions wanted the power of the crystal, when in reality they just wanted a fail safe if anything went bad. Pak has talked about how Superman is a symbol of hope, he specifically writes the angry version of superman, so when he grows up we could see the growth of his character.

#20 Posted by Z3RO180 (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude just be quite and stop moaning. You people wanted a younger non boys out superman who was not married to lois lane and now that you have it you hate it. If this is how you react just stop reading comics.

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#21 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

You do know that this was both Bruce and Clark at their earliest right? I mean, it essentially reflects perfectly with how Grant Morrison wrote Clark in Action Comics two years back. Take a deep breath and relax mate.

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#22 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2633 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by Z3RO180 (6447 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Edited by Saint_Wildcard (10114 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180: Lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Some people dont want any change ever. They want the same story over and over and over again. Its exiting to them. Kind of like my mom and those damn tele novelas (mexican soap operas)

#25 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2633 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_rog_el: Name one instance where there's a story for the New 52 Superman that couldn't have been done without it being the classic Superman? If anything we are getting the same stories over and over again NOW because of this stupid reboot as they keep having to go over things that already happened!!!!!!!

#26 Posted by PapiNacho (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@smart_dork_dude: All of Morrison's run hinged on the fact Superman was younger and depowered, as did JL: Origins and Batman/Superman. Additionally Lobdell's He'll on Earth storlline also hinged in Krypton being different from its pre-52 version. Superman Unchained is actually the only major storyline that I could see happening Pre-52.

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