From looking at a scan where superman met his parents before krypton exploded; as shown below. Man her own son she can't stand him because he has human characteristics.
Superman
Character » Superman appears in 18939 issues.
Sent to Earth as an infant from the dying planet Krypton, Kal-El was adopted by the loving Kent family and raised in America's heartland as Clark Kent. Using his immense solar-fueled powers, he became Superman to defend mankind against all manner of threats while championing truth, justice, and the American way!
Superman's mom a racist ?
What mother wants to see their full grown son wearing underwear over their spandex pants? And don't even get me started on the headband.
So she is more of a bigot, than a racist, given how blurry race and racism is, one could argue this a number of ways. Speciesism could apply but thats even more blurry. Essentially an argument of semantics really. In any case I agree with @PowerHerc:
At least on the evidence given.
" @TheCrowbar: because race isn't refering to his physical appearance (white, brown haired, wearing underwear on the outside) , but rather the entire species that raised him (humans). she is racist against the entire human race. "It's his physical appearance that's different not his species. Remember Jor'el and her were part of the Science Guild while guys like Zod(Who shares a similar build and has hair like Kal) were part of the military, after Zod's attacks you'd have apprehensions of big muscular men too.
" @PowerHerc said:"wrong idea of race buddy. "
No, she's not racist. Despite his upbringing and appearance Superman is still a white Kryptonian (same as her).
She's a snob. She can't accept or believe that her son would be or could become a 'savage.' "
Well, Superman is from Kypton, so he's native to the same planet as she is, and he's white, same as her and Jor-El, hence; they're the same race.
How many ideas of race do you claim there are?
Which idea of race is it then?
Kryptonian women are snobs.
remember alura?
or kara when she gets pissed?
someone needs to teach them a lesson in humility.
I vote darkseid or cyborg superman.
" Kryptonian women are snobs. remember alura? or kara when she gets pissed? someone needs to teach them a lesson in humility. I vote darkseid or cyborg superman. "Not all just the main universe *cough*Power Girl *cough*
" @entropy_aegis said:" Kryptonian women are snobs. remember alura? or kara when she gets pissed? someone needs to teach them a lesson in humility. I vote darkseid or cyborg superman. "Not all just the main universe *cough*Power Girl *cough* "
What's power girl done?
and alura was annoying as hell, the only comicbook character to actually get on my nerves,i was just waiting for zod to destroy her,but while it did'nt happen she still got blown apart.
all hail lex luthor.
Kryptonian women are snobs.
remember alura?
or kara when she gets pissed?
someone needs to teach them a lesson in humility.
Yeah, maybe someone should kill them all. Oh, right, humanity did kill most of them. That'll teach them uppity women some humility.
The internet is filled with disgusting people, I think I'm done with ComicVine.
" @entropy_aegis:
Kryptonian women are snobs.
remember alura?
or kara when she gets pissed?
someone needs to teach them a lesson in humility. Yeah, maybe someone should kill them all. Oh, right, humanity did kill most of them. That'll teach them uppity women some humility. The internet is filled with disgusting people, I think I'm done with ComicVine. "
What's so disgusting? and it's not like they did'nt deserve to get blown apart and supes himself sent the remaining to the phantom zone.
" @berfel said:That you think "snobby" women need "a lesson in humility", and would like to have villains do it. I hope you don't feel the same way about the real women in your life.What's so disgusting? and it's not like they did'nt deserve to get blown apart and supes himself sent the remaining to the phantom zone. "" @entropy_aegis:
Kryptonian women are snobs.
remember alura?
or kara when she gets pissed?
someone needs to teach them a lesson in humility. Yeah, maybe someone should kill them all. Oh, right, humanity did kill most of them. That'll teach them uppity women some humility. The internet is filled with disgusting people, I think I'm done with ComicVine. "
And "deserve to get blown apart"? Genocide's the thing, 'cause they deserved it? Hundreds of thousands deserved to get killed, cause the women are snobs? Yahoo, species extinction, that'll teach 'em a lesson, being all uppity and rude. Parades in the streets, they're all dead. And this in a discussion thread implying that "Superman's mom is a racist" based on some disparaging remarks. Killing hundreds of thousands is "deserved" - because of the behavior of a few individuals. Using this logic Earth deserved to get the vengeance those Kryptonians wanted to deal out, because vastly more Kryptonians died at the hands of humanity than the other way around.
I really didn't like Superman taking his long walk, I found the whole thing silly. Now I think I'm beginning to understand why he's unsure about whether what he stands for means anything when many of the people he thinks he's defending have this sort of shaky moral and ethical foundation. Yes, disgusting.
" @entropy_aegis:@entropy_aegis said:You do know that he's more annoyed with the specific group known as Kryptonian Women, and that killing in a comic book is closer to a prank than a real murder." @berfel said:That you think "snobby" women need "a lesson in humility", and would like to have villains do it. I hope you don't feel the same way about the real women in your life. And "deserve to get blown apart"? Genocide's the thing, 'cause they deserved it? Hundreds of thousands deserved to get killed, cause the women are snobs? Yahoo, species extinction, that'll teach 'em a lesson, being all uppity and rude. Parades in the streets, they're all dead. And this in a discussion thread implying that "Superman's mom is a racist" based on some disparaging remarks. Killing hundreds of thousands is "deserved" - because of the behavior of a few individuals. Using this logic Earth deserved to get the vengeance those Kryptonians wanted to deal out, because vastly more Kryptonians died at the hands of humanity than the other way around. I really didn't like Superman taking his long walk, I found the whole thing silly. Now I think I'm beginning to understand why he's unsure about whether what he stands for means anything when many of the people he thinks he's defending have this sort of shaky moral and ethical foundation. Yes, disgusting. "What's so disgusting? and it's not like they did'nt deserve to get blown apart and supes himself sent the remaining to the phantom zone. "" @entropy_aegis:
Kryptonian women are snobs.
remember alura?
or kara when she gets pissed?
someone needs to teach them a lesson in humility. Yeah, maybe someone should kill them all. Oh, right, humanity did kill most of them. That'll teach them uppity women some humility. The internet is filled with disgusting people, I think I'm done with ComicVine. "
"You're right, simple killing in comic books has pretty much been devalued to little more than a prank, no more important than a hot foot or soap on your windows at Halloween. Does that make mass murder high comedy? But really, that's an excellent summation of the situation.
You do know that he's more annoyed with the specific group known as Kryptonian Women, and that killing in a comic book is closer to a prank than a real murder. "
And no, he's not "annoyed" with Kryptonian women. If he were annoyed he would want them to be given a good lecture. He wants them taught a "little humility" by mass murders, torturers, and master criminals (Darkseid, Cyborg Superman, and Luthor so far - maybe he'd like the Joker to get involved.) It's strange that he's stereotyped Kryptonian women (and wants them all taught that "humility") based on the behavior of an extremely limited sample in a thread asking if Superman's mother was a racist because she was "snobby" about her son dressing in skin-tight spandex and wearing his underwear over his pants.
I wouldn't say she's racist. She's snobbish, perhaps a little xenophobic, but not racist. Considering that Superman's her biological son, they are the same race. What's coming through is probably more like what people have said; he's been raised on a primitive world and therefore she's acting the same way an aristocrat would to their child running off to live with peasant farmers.
" @TheCrowbar:@TheCrowbar said:"You're right, simple killing in comic books has pretty much been devalued to little more than a prank, no more important than a hot foot or soap on your windows at Halloween. Does that make mass murder high comedy? But really, that's an excellent summation of the situation.And no, he's not "annoyed" with Kryptonian women. If he were annoyed he would want them to be given a good lecture. He wants them taught a "little humility" by mass murders, torturers, and master criminals (Darkseid, Cyborg Superman, and Luthor so far - maybe he'd like the Joker to get involved.) It's strange that he's stereotyped Kryptonian women (and wants them all taught that "humility") based on the behavior of an extremely limited sample in a thread asking if Superman's mother was a racist because she was "snobby" about her son dressing in skin-tight spandex and wearing his underwear over his pants. "
You do know that he's more annoyed with the specific group known as Kryptonian Women, and that killing in a comic book is closer to a prank than a real murder. "
LOL,looks like someone needs to stop taking their stuff too seriously.
" @TheCrowbar:@TheCrowbar said:Of all the Kryptonian women we've seen, they're all batty. Power Girl is the only one with a shred of sanity and she's from a different universe, so she doesn't count. Every other Kryptonian woman has had a "I'm going evil because it's Tuesday" syndrome. It's not really teaching someone humility when you blow up the planet they're on, which really seems to be a running theme for Kryptonians no?"You're right, simple killing in comic books has pretty much been devalued to little more than a prank, no more important than a hot foot or soap on your windows at Halloween. Does that make mass murder high comedy? But really, that's an excellent summation of the situation.And no, he's not "annoyed" with Kryptonian women. If he were annoyed he would want them to be given a good lecture. He wants them taught a "little humility" by mass murders, torturers, and master criminals (Darkseid, Cyborg Superman, and Luthor so far - maybe he'd like the Joker to get involved.) It's strange that he's stereotyped Kryptonian women (and wants them all taught that "humility") based on the behavior of an extremely limited sample in a thread asking if Superman's mother was a racist because she was "snobby" about her son dressing in skin-tight spandex and wearing his underwear over his pants. "
You do know that he's more annoyed with the specific group known as Kryptonian Women, and that killing in a comic book is closer to a prank than a real murder. "
LOL,looks like someone needs to stop taking their stuff too seriously. "Says the individual with over 2400 posts to a web site dedicated to comic books. How you react to the world, even fiction, defines and is defined by your character. A sociopath is a sociopath, even if he's talking about fictional women he wants to see taught some humility by the villains he adores or the race he loved seeing exterminated because they "deserved it."
" Of all the Kryptonian women we've seen, they're all batty. Power Girl is the only one with a shred of sanity and she's from a different universe, so she doesn't count. Every other Kryptonian woman has had a "I'm going evil because it's Tuesday" syndrome. It's not really teaching someone humility when you blow up the planet they're on, which really seems to be a running theme for Kryptonians no? "
Of a planet of billions of inhabitants how many of those women have we seen? And it looks like humanity in the DC universe is picking up on that running theme. Or would it be a false conclusion to decide humanity is a race of genocidal maniacs based on the behavior of General Lane?
But as far as them all being "batty", I'd say there's you're right, there's lots of evidence of that. Survivors of horrible events often behave irrationally, it goes with the territory. "Teaching them a little humility" is more likely to confirm their bias rather then convince them the universe can be trusted.
" @entropy_aegis:@entropy_aegis said:LOL,looks like someone needs to stop taking their stuff too seriously. "Says the individual with over 2400 posts to a web site dedicated to comic books. How you react to the world, even fiction, defines and is defined by your character. A sociopath is a sociopath, even if he's talking about fictional women he wants to see taught some humility by the villains he adores or the race he loved seeing exterminated because they "deserved it." "
Predictable , whenever guys like you are pushed in to a corner ,you resort to attacking postcounts,websites,comics etc.
an insecure idiot is always an idiot.
they're fictional characters ,GET OVER IT.
you're probably one of those morons who probably think alan moore should be crucified for writing the killing joke.
yeah i'm a sociopath ,I DARE YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
darkseid should rape alura while kara is forced to watch.
" @TheCrowbar said:" Of all the Kryptonian women we've seen, they're all batty. Power Girl is the only one with a shred of sanity and she's from a different universe, so she doesn't count. Every other Kryptonian woman has had a "I'm going evil because it's Tuesday" syndrome. It's not really teaching someone humility when you blow up the planet they're on, which really seems to be a running theme for Kryptonians no? "Of a planet of billions of inhabitants how many of those women have we seen? And it looks like humanity in the DC universe is picking up on that running theme. Or would it be a false conclusion to decide humanity is a race of genocidal maniacs based on the behavior of General Lane? But as far as them all being "batty", I'd say there's you're right, there's lots of evidence of that. Survivors of horrible events often behave irrationally, it goes with the territory. "Teaching them a little humility" is more likely to confirm their bias rather then convince them the universe can be trusted. "
And i'd like you to tell me the name of the character that defines me.
general lane is awesome.
hopefully lex gets around to killing the remaining kryptonians,starting with supergirl.
" @TheCrowbar said:Funny because in the New Krypton arc, the historically batty Zod was actually not batty, it only leave Kryptonian women that are apeshit. And again, Power Girl lost a whole universe and she didn't decide that going insane all the time is a good thing, Starfire was betrayed by her planet, then her sister then her entire planet went boom and she's still less crazy than Kryptonian women. And for the record it was thousands not billions." Of all the Kryptonian women we've seen, they're all batty. Power Girl is the only one with a shred of sanity and she's from a different universe, so she doesn't count. Every other Kryptonian woman has had a "I'm going evil because it's Tuesday" syndrome. It's not really teaching someone humility when you blow up the planet they're on, which really seems to be a running theme for Kryptonians no? "Of a planet of billions of inhabitants how many of those women have we seen? And it looks like humanity in the DC universe is picking up on that running theme. Or would it be a false conclusion to decide humanity is a race of genocidal maniacs based on the behavior of General Lane? But as far as them all being "batty", I'd say there's you're right, there's lots of evidence of that. Survivors of horrible events often behave irrationally, it goes with the territory. "Teaching them a little humility" is more likely to confirm their bias rather then convince them the universe can be trusted. "
" I wouldn't say she's racist. She's snobbish, perhaps a little xenophobic, but not racist. Considering that Superman's her biological son, they are the same race. What's coming through is probably more like what people have said; he's been raised on a primitive world and therefore she's acting the same way an aristocrat would to their child running off to live with peasant farmers. "Yes, that about it I think. When I read that I summed it up as "Mother doesn't like her son's choice of haircut, clothes, friends, and career choice." She's wearing Byrne-era Kryptonian clothing, but that's a conversation that has happened throughout the ages in all cultures.
A rape advocate, lover of genocide, wants fictional female characters to be taught some humility by criminals, and an admitted sociopath. No problem, I'll leave you alone, you're too creepy for me. I'm glad you're not taking all this too seriously as you said. Smile, kiddo! The world is filled with the stuff you like, you'll never be bored."Predictable , whenever guys like you are pushed in to a corner ,you resort to attacking postcounts,websites,comics etc. an insecure idiot is always an idiot. they're fictional characters ,GET OVER IT. you're probably one of those morons who probably think alan moore should be crucified for writing the killing joke. yeah i'm a sociopath ,I DARE YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. darkseid should rape alura while kara is forced to watch. "
" @entropy_aegis said:It's not a lesson if the person you're teaching is dead at the end. And I thought we established Kryptonians are fictional and genocide and death is like saying hello in comics?A rape advocate, lover of genocide, wants fictional female characters to be taught some humility by criminals, and an admitted sociopath. No problem, I'll leave you alone, you're too creepy for me. I'm glad you're not taking all this too seriously as you said. Smile, kiddo! The world is filled with the stuff you like, you'll never be bored. ""Predictable , whenever guys like you are pushed in to a corner ,you resort to attacking postcounts,websites,comics etc. an insecure idiot is always an idiot. they're fictional characters ,GET OVER IT. you're probably one of those morons who probably think alan moore should be crucified for writing the killing joke. yeah i'm a sociopath ,I DARE YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. darkseid should rape alura while kara is forced to watch. "
" It's not a lesson if the person you're teaching is dead at the end. And I thought we established Kryptonians are fictional and genocide and death is like saying hello in comics? "If they're fictional they're not dead, they never lived. For that matter, if they're fictional they're not racist, they're fictional, and all of our meta discussions about comics are a meaningless waste. If we're going to analyze their behavior, values, and thoughts as if they actually occurred ("X is a Racist!") then it's arbitrary to draw a line and say it doesn't matter because they're fictional when the analysis veers into territory we find uncomfortable.
But in this case my analysis was meant to be partly about us, the comic readers. They're fictional characters. We're not. The writers are trying, though not always successfully, to create stories with moral and ethical dilemmas that will make us think and feel, maybe even try to compare these events to the world we live in. If we always reduce the events to "it's just a story dude, don't sweat it" then they've failed, and we're no better for having read the story. And if the best we can do is become advocates for the worst of human behaviors in those fictional worlds then we've reduced ourselves as well.
Yes, I know. They're comics, not great literature. This isn't Dickens, Tolstoy, or even Stephen King. It's superheroes, and I'm wasting everyone's time and diverting a discussion thread into something it wasn't intended to be, which wasn't my intention. My apologies to all.
" @TheCrowbar said:That wooshing noise is you missing the point." It's not a lesson if the person you're teaching is dead at the end. And I thought we established Kryptonians are fictional and genocide and death is like saying hello in comics? "If they're fictional they're not dead, they never lived. For that matter, if they're fictional they're not racist, they're fictional, and all of our meta discussions about comics are a meaningless waste. If we're going to analyze their behavior, values, and thoughts as if they actually occurred ("X is a Racist!") then it's arbitrary to draw a line and say it doesn't matter because they're fictional when the analysis veers into territory we find uncomfortable. But in this case my analysis was meant to be partly about us, the comic readers. They're fictional characters. We're not. The writers are trying, though not always successfully, to create stories with moral and ethical dilemmas that will make us think and feel, maybe even try to compare these events to the world we live in. If we always reduce the events to "it's just a story dude, don't sweat it" then they've failed, and we're no better for having read the story. And if the best we can do is become advocates for the worst of human behaviors in those fictional worlds then we've reduced ourselves as well. Yes, I know. They're comics, not great literature. This isn't Dickens, Tolstoy, or even Stephen King. It's superheroes, and I'm wasting everyone's time and diverting a discussion thread into something it wasn't intended to be, which wasn't my intention. My apologies to all. "
That wooshing noise is you missing the point. "
No, I got the point. It's not a lesson if the person you're trying to teach a lesson to is dead in the end (though most lessons like that are meant to intimate the survivors and witnesses by making an example.) And yes, Kryptonians are fictional and genocide/death is just a love pat in comics. LIke I said, it's not like this is great literature.
I'm just stating that I don't want to divert this discussion thread any further from what it's creator intended.
When i refer to race I'm referring here to the human race; race based on skin color,hair etc are inaccurate at best as those factors are such a small percentage in human dna that they can be considered non-existent.Now, notice her reaction to him not looking like a typical kryptonian, she says "I wish you were different so i could stand you that's a typical line a racist person would say she's totally against the way humans appear so much so that even her own son looking like that disgust her and lets not forget her reaction to Jor-El suggesting about humans mating with Kryptonians in "Superman Last son of Earth", I'm quoting her " Well i won't allow it I'd remove my cells from the matrix before i allow them to mix with..". She was even content on leaving a human child (Clark Kent) in the desert to die...now did she react this way in other story arcs when they showed her with her Kryptonian son Kal-El as a b---h who would leave a child out to die." @shonen2 said:
Well, Superman is from Kypton, so he's native to the same planet as she is, and he's white, same as her and Jor-El, hence; they're the same race. How many ideas of race do you claim there are? Which idea of race is it then? "" @PowerHerc said:
wrong idea of race buddy. ""
No, she'snot
racist. Despite his upbringing and appearance Superman is still a white Kryptonian (same as her).
She's a snob. She can't accept or believe that her son would be or could become a 'savage.' "
" @entropy_aegis said:A rape advocate, lover of genocide, wants fictional female characters to be taught some humility by criminals, and an admitted sociopath. No problem, I'll leave you alone, you're too creepy for me. I'm glad you're not taking all this too seriously as you said. Smile, kiddo! The world is filled with the stuff you like, you'll never be bored. ""Predictable , whenever guys like you are pushed in to a corner ,you resort to attacking postcounts,websites,comics etc. an insecure idiot is always an idiot. they're fictional characters ,GET OVER IT. you're probably one of those morons who probably think alan moore should be crucified for writing the killing joke. yeah i'm a sociopath ,I DARE YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. darkseid should rape alura while kara is forced to watch. "
Yeah brad meltlzer is also an advocate of rape too,marv wolfman is a pedophile,jerry siegel and joe shuster should be on trial for genocide,bob kane is a murderer,alan moore is a sicko. we can add ostrander and simone to this list too.
Here some advice
get your head out your A$$.
@berfel:
What is your problem again?!?
@entropy_aegis said:
"darkseid should rape alura while kara is forced to watch. "You're feeding the flames, you know that?
Funny thing is, fictional books weren't really looked at too fondly when they first appeared either. They were things for people who didn't have important things to do. The bottom line is; they are both fictional. Therefore we either allow open discussion on what appears in all fictional works or we accept they're just fictional and leave it at that.
okay, so.... I'm new; first post actually. And I signed up to this forum JUST to answer this question, actually.
I'm truly surprised that a board full of fans of Superman would be actually arguing this point and not know where Post-Crisis Laura's issues stem, Based on Byrne's work.
@shonen2 Chick, this was a great post, but the assumption is VERY incorrect.
@powerherc She's not a "snob" in the traditional sense of her thinking she's "socially better" than him either, dude.
@sc You make a solid enough point, but again, this is incorrect, as its not "Race" she taking issue with here, bud.
In truth, if we wish to be more correct, Laura here is a xenophobe. A socially conditioned, exaggerated, OCD-level Xenophobe to be exact. What many people take for granted is that in John Byrne's run, Krypton became a very different world than the marvelous, 50s science-fiction, "Buck Rogers-esque" version it was shown as previously. Hell, it was even a lot different from the cold, crystalline, scientifically advanced but still highly feeling, compassionate and moral Krypton of the Richard Donner movies. For starters, it was no longer as highly evolved in terms of the planet's actual time; it was only about 8-9 billion years old, compared to earth's 6 billion. Also, it was no longer the "Super Giant" world with hundreds of thousands of times heavier gravity than earth; it was actually only about 2-3 times bigger; this is WHY all of Superman's powers now came from the yellow sun. As such, the Kryptonians themselves weren't as monstrously durable due to evolution, or anywhere NEAR as adventure-seeking. According to various sources, although the society was more evolved, it was only about 100,000 years or so more advanced, and those advancements, both scientific and cultural, lead to many differences, which made Byrne's version way more "alien" and cold in a way.
I'll nutshell this:
Some centuries before this panel above in Krypton's history, the society had become so decadent, that they had essentially destroyed themselves; think of them as an interstellar version of Rome. After a whole set of trouble, the planetary society reorganized itself into a highly scientific, reason-fueled and pragmatic people; think Vulcans from Star Trek, all on ADD medication. The reason being, their previous passionate ways had led them to a hedonistic downward spiral, and they didn't want that to happen again... but they took it to the next extreme; all emotion was scorned, all physical contactshunned, and anything but cold logic was seen almost as heresy. At some point, cloning became a big thing; normal Kryptonian citizens would have multiple clones to serve as spare body parts in case of illness or injury. This brought up the issue of clone rights as living, sentient beings. This rather passionate debate would divid the society...especially when it was found that a man had somehow managed to marry a clone of his own mother [or something along those lines, you might have to check it]. Long and short, a MAJOR war broke out, with the terrorist forces of Black Zero becoming a big issue and almost destroying much of the planet. This made the already xenophobic civilization even more averse to feelings and physical touch; you see those whole body suits they are wearing? It was not unusual for Kryptonians to spend their entire lives covered from each other in them. The reference made to the "birthing matrix" was significant because it had become common practice for Kryptonians not to reproduce sexually...but via sterilized, artificial mechanisms!
This is the society and mindset Laura comes from, and , if I'm correct, in the very next page, when her husband...her husband, mind you...sought to touch her with his "naked hands", she shunned his advances in disgust! Such shows of emotion simply were not done on this planet!
Now, she sees her son, her only child, as an adult, who grew up in the warmest, huggiest, most loving and compassionate environment in the world (a farm with an old-fashioned american Mom and Dad) and how he behaves in relation to her beliefs. It's not just that he is a "savage" and she's "Snubbing" him, here...it's that he is a total anti-thesis to everything she has learned for her entire life. He's as "alien" to her as the Martian Manhunter's true form must be to us. THAT's why she's acting in such an unbelievable way here.
So no, this isn't "racism" or "specieism"; if it was, it'd probably be seen that Jor-El was acting that way, too. She's just shocked STUPID at how different her son is, and is ignorant thanks to the ways in which her society evolved.
@shen: bruh, glad you joined the site and I genuinely hope you stay, but that post was 4 years old and I pretty sure SC is the only person still here.
@potatobaron: Dude, I happened on this thread by accident, but it BOTHERED me! I hope, at least that clears up something for people who see it in the future.
@dernman Yes. Yes, I did, dude. Must have had some validity to it; you responded, after all :-D
What is with people and the difficulty of the definition of the word race :p
And as previously was said:
No, she's not racist. Despite his upbringing and appearance Superman is still a white Kryptonian (same as her).
She's a snob. She can't accept or believe that her son would be or could become a 'savage.'
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