Sent to Earth as an infant from the dying planet Krypton, Kal-El was adopted by the loving Kent family and raised in America's heartland as Clark Kent. Using his immense solar-fueled powers, he became Superman to defend mankind against all manner of threats while championing truth, justice, and the American way!
@Ms. Omega: He does have character flaws, he's insecure constantly worrying he'll lose control of those god-like powers, he's over protective, even Lois Lane has pointed out that flaw, he has trouble seeing the world in shades of grey, a problem that has led him into trouble on many occasions. He has many relatable traits as well. He feels alienated (no pun intended) He has responsibilities that he doesn't want, He'd much rather be a normal human Clark Kent than a God-Like Superman, He has relationship problems, he has annoying co-workers (I'm looking at you Jimmy.) The point is if you look past the powers he's a much more human character than even Batman(Bruce himself even pointed that out)
Exactly. But to be honest I read comics to escape from reality to a world where anything is possible. I am not looking to find characters I can relate to. But to each's own.
@Ms. Omega: He does have character flaws, he's insecure constantly worrying he'll lose control of those god-like powers, he's over protective, even Lois Lane has pointed out that flaw, he has trouble seeing the world in shades of grey, a problem that has led him into trouble on many occasions. He has many relatable traits as well. He feels alienated (no pun intended) He has responsibilities that he doesn't want, He'd much rather be a normal human Clark Kent than a God-Like Superman, He has relationship problems, he has annoying co-workers (I'm looking at you Jimmy.) The point is if you look past the powers he's a much more human character than even Batman(Bruce himself even pointed that out)
Beautifully written. Growing up on Batman comics, I actually find Superman the most relatable out of all the comics I read (pre n52 anyways...I've still yet to make a judgement of DCnU Superman).
As I have already stated here I am a Superman fan. But thre is certian suff like this bothers me to no end about the Man of Steel. I don’t blame him I blame writers and fanboys. This is a long post thank you in advance for reading it.
1. Superman’s Powers vs. Actual Comics
When people on these boards post Superman Feats, I’d like to post other pages and call them feats of incompetence.
Consider this if Pre-52 Superman with his powers and you consider some of the people he’s lost to then by comic writing Superman loses due to his naiveté and borderline incompetence. I don't think he is but with his abilities that is how he written.
A comic example:
Justice League of America Issue 14. Lex Luthor and other IL members have captured almost all the JLA members. Black Lightning and Superman go to save them.
Superman burst in and does what…he talks?
WHY?
If Superman used his “vast intellect “since apparently he wins over Batman in intellect in that battle in Comicvine, he should have just speedblitzed in there and taken every damn person out that couldn’t see him coming. If they did it truthfully it should have gone something like this:
Cheetah:[Looking at monitor] We got a blip.
Lex:“Alright listen up every-“
[Turns around everybody is down and unconscious and on the floor. Superman is standing about 100 feet from him.]
[Without speaking; because doing so would be slower than he can actually move, Superman uses his Heat Vision to liquefy the floor Lex is standing on and Lex sinks up to his neck then Superman uses Frost Breath to solidify the floor.]
Lex: “Mother Fuc-“
Now obviously they didn’t do that because that would be boring as heck.
That is why I feel they powered down Superman from PC blowing planets around with his breath to someone who would actually has to kinda work and being a Superhero.
Also consider Doomsday. If Doomsday has superspeed even close to levels and he enjoyed killing truckers and deer. Why didn’t he use that speed to tear that sad excuse for a Justice League apart before they even called Superman?
2. Superman Fans (We will use these boards) vs. Actual Comics
Every time I see a Battle thread with Superman, Supergirl, Powergirl, Superboy, Superboy/man Prime and Krypto in the title I usually sigh.
Arguments are usually the same:
-Super- is too fast
-Super- is too strong
-Super- can ignore damage from an exploding planet.
Okay so Superman can withstand a blast that takes out a planet.
Does Doctor Light do enough damage to take out an exploding planet?
Then why in the heck and he even slow Superman down in Justice League of America Issue #14.
If Superman is faster than thought (which means he thinks faster than thought just enough to move faster than thought) why is Lex even a challenge in any way in combat?
Lex shouldn’t be able to hit Superman with anything. Superman is a courageous, moral, trustworthy,
and honest person. By his power design those are weaknesses to him! Such attributes shouldn’t be but if he was willing to ignore such things as not to kill this is how an encounter with Lex would go down:
Superman's uncommon combat technique
If you take all the Kryptonians on Earth that are heroes and if they work in concert, why are there any villains no in prison? Unless they are living in a lead bunker (which by the way should be notices for not being able to see though it). With the Watchtower they could speedblitz almost every villain on the planet before any of them would know what was happening.
So why don’t they? That one is easy to answer because nobody would read the comic. It would be like playing a videogame where you would be Zeus and all you do is use your lightning powers to kill ants. Eventually you would get bored.
3. How Superman has affected DC writers.
I believe that Superman has managed to make characters increase their powers just to keep up with him.
Take Wonder Woman. She used to be strong and fast but not nearly comparable as Superman. Look at her now; consider what she can do compared to how she was.
Another issue is the vagueness of how strong mainstream Superman actually is in mainstream comics. DC writers never give an accurate number, they just use “feats” to show it. While Marvel writers for the most part, has numbers. This gives characters both strengths and weakness and helps define their comic readers. DC readers can imagine, hypnotize and guess but they really don’t know the facts this makes DC characters a bit more “fantastic” like a legend or a story. But this also can make the stories horribly inconsistent.
I superdoublehate those superhaters! I hope they superdie but supersuffer superlong first because of their superignorance to thesuperawesomeness of the superduperhero superman!
Batman is just as overpowered as Superman. Let's see the ordinary human being learn virtually all forms of combat in a few years, and learn almost everything there is to learn about Earth sciences, and still be a hero by the time they reach 25.
Batman has a gadget for every situation. Batman isn't more relatable than Superman. If anything, I'd say he's less so. Superman is the hardest character to write, and therefore read. That is also a huge reason people don't like him.
The main problem I have with Superman hating is none of the reasons given for the hate are actually true. Some will say he's over-powered, then those same folks have no problem with Thor, Silver Surfer (in a story involving Galactus!) If "over-powered" is really a big concern, where is all the Thor/Silver Surfer hate? Folks will say he's "unrelatable" Newsflash: All these super-heroes are unrelatable, even Spider-man. Superman as Clark Kent, is someone I can relate to a heck of a lot better than Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark, or Steve Rogers. Think now, if we could totally relate to them, they wouldn't be super-heroes..they'd be people, and wouldn't be in the fantasy genre. That he has no character flaws isn't true. He does have them, (joshmightbe covered this earlier.) they are different than the character flaws Batman has, but he has them.Especially Morrison's version, which was as over-confident and arrogant as batman ever was. I actually think the closest comic hero to "flawless character" we had before was Wonder Woman, (Not so much in the re-boot)
My main Superman problem is I'd like to see a story arc in his regular comics that are good as the graphic novels and Elseworld's stories. I think it's a bummer that when I mention my favorite Supes stories (All-Star, Secret Identity, Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?, etc...) so few of them are cannon.
@OmegaRed86: I think your "problems" with Superman are true of any character/hero in comics. Breaking each one down:
1) His reaction to earth's sun makes him powerful.....Bruce Banner's reaction to Gamma Rays made him powerful. How is that any better?
2) Any Kryptonian could have his powers...Well, since Banner and Parker were just "normal humans" before, we could say "Anyone that got bit by a radioactive spider, or anyone that had over exposure to gamma rays could do what they do. Anyone that had chemicals splash on them could do what Barry Allen does, the list goes on.
3)DC makes copy characters: Lots of characters get clones/copies. Your avatar is an example of one.
4) Consistency: No character power are consistent. They all have high-end feats and low-end feats, and vary widely.
If you don't like him, you don't like him, and that's okay, but I can't say I find much logic to the reasoning of the haters (Not just yours, any of them) If those are the reasons to hate Superman, then you should also hate about 99% of the super-hero genre.
@OmegaRed86: I think your "problems" with Superman are true of any character/hero in comics. Breaking each one down: 1) His reaction to earth's sun makes him powerful.....Bruce Banner's reaction to Gamma Rays made him powerful. How is that any better? 2) Any Kryptonian could have his powers...Well, since Banner and Parker were just "normal humans" before, we could say "Anyone that got bit by a radioactive spider, or anyone that had over exposure to gamma rays could do what they do. Anyone that had chemicals splash on them could do what Barry Allen does, the list goes on. 3)DC makes copy characters: Lots of characters get clones/copies. Your avatar is an example of one. 4) Consistency: No character power are consistent. They all have high-end feats and low-end feats, and vary widely. If you don't like him, you don't like him, and that's okay, but I can't say I find much logic to the reasoning of the haters (Not just yours, any of them) If those are the reasons to hate Superman, then you should also hate about 99% of the super-hero genre.
1) His reaction to earth's sun makes him powerful.....Bruce Banner's reaction to Gamma Rays made him powerful. How is that any better?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bruce Banner was exposed to a Gamma Bomb blast and had mutated genes that led to him becoming the Hulk. It was a freak accident and very difficult to repeat. I don't believe Superman was more special that any other Kryptonian and he gained his powers because his body reacts to the sun. So any kryptonian could be as powerful as Superman if they get close to our sun.
2) Any Kryptonian could have his powers...Well, since Banner and Parker were just "normal humans" before, we could say "Anyone that got bit by a radioactive spider, or anyone that had over exposure to gamma rays could do what they do. Anyone that had chemicals splash on them could do what Barry Allen does, the list goes on.
Bruce Banner had mutated genes because of his father, which helped him survive the Gamma bomb and become the Hulk. Peter Parker and Flash suffered freak accidents that aren't easy to repeat and could get them killed. Superman's powers only require that he absorb sunlight and he's done. No life threatening event or taxing scientific process, just a sun tan.
3)DC makes copy characters: Lots of characters get clones/copies. Your avatar is an example of one.
I don't like most copy characters. She-Hulk is hot. That's her saving grace.
4) Consistency: No character power are consistent. They all have high-end feats and low-end feats, and vary widely.
If you don't like him, you don't like him, and that's okay, but I can't say I find much logic to the reasoning of the haters (Not just yours, any of them) If those are the reasons to hate Superman, then you should also hate about 99% of the super-hero genre.
@OmegaRed86: Valid points from that perspective. I would say Hulk's original origin didn't have that, he was simply a guy that got exposed to gamma rays, and became Hulk. The mutant gene angle wasn't added till some years later. (far as I can remember.) Someone could just as easily ret-con Superman's origin and say "His powers are beyond what other Kryptonians would have in similar circumstances." After all, it's been established that he is more powerful than Powergirl.
While true Superman didn't have anything happen to him once he landed on earth, let's not forget, his parents launch him too late, he dies with Krypton. That doesn't sound "easy to replicate" to me. (Though I do get the spirit of what you're saying.) I'm getting the feeling your beef is that Superman didn't "earn" his powers. Neither did Banner..he was lucky to have the mutated genes to get the reaction he got. Spider-man and Flash were simply lucky that the accidents gave them powers instead of making them gravely ill, or killing them. Now, if you're saying you wish Superman's powers were more random, and not due solely to the result of his location, I can concede that, though I don't see how being lucky during a freak accident is better.
All said, impressed with the logic of your explanations (A total 180 from most I've heard.) Well done. And won't argue with the She-Hulk point. :)
@OmegaRed86: Valid points from that perspective. I would say Hulk's original origin didn't have that, he was simply a guy that got exposed to gamma rays, and became Hulk. The mutant gene angle wasn't added till some years later. (far as I can remember.) Someone could just as easily ret-con Superman's origin and say "His powers are beyond what other Kryptonians would have in similar circumstances." After all, it's been established that he is more powerful than Powergirl. While true Superman didn't have anything happen to him once he landed on earth, let's not forget, his parents launch him too late, he dies with Krypton. That doesn't sound "easy to replicate" to me. (Though I do get the spirit of what you're saying.) I'm getting the feeling your beef is that Superman didn't "earn" his powers. Neither did Banner..he was lucky to have the mutated genes to get the reaction he got. Spider-man and Flash were simply lucky that the accidents gave them powers instead of making them gravely ill, or killing them. Now, if you're saying you wish Superman's powers were more random, and not due solely to the result of his location, I can concede that, though I don't see how being lucky during a freak accident is better. All said, impressed with the logic of your explanations (A total 180 from most I've heard.) Well done. And won't argue with the She-Hulk point. :)
Good to have a discussion with a Superman fan that's logical, respectful, and enjoyable.
@Manwhohaseverything: I always wonder though...Why do people wanna relate to heroes?
Well, that's why they were created in the first place.
In the case of Superman, Schuster and Siegel thought 'wouldn't it be great if I were stronger and was able to stand up to all those bad people?' - and so Superman was born.
For me, I kinda like that people don't necessarily like the characters and story arcs that I do.
Otherwise there'd be nothing to discuss it'd just be -
"I like The Hulk"
"So do I"
"I love it when he smashes stuff"
"So do I"
BORING!!!!!
It's better than:
"I like Superman"
"You do? I hate that guy!"
"WHAT?!"
"Yeah. He's overpowered"
"No he's not." - Then an argument ensues showing that there is no logical reason to hate, I repeat HATE, Superman. Yet the haters will make stupid points, often drawing from selected memory and other forms of ridiculous bias.
For me, I kinda like that people don't necessarily like the characters and story arcs that I do.
Otherwise there'd be nothing to discuss it'd just be -
"I like The Hulk"
"So do I"
"I love it when he smashes stuff"
"So do I"
BORING!!!!!
It's better than:
"I like Superman"
"You do? I hate that guy!"
"WHAT?!"
"Yeah. He's overpowered"
"No he's not." - Then an argument ensues showing that there is no logical reason to hate, I repeat HATE, Superman. Yet the haters will make stupid points, often drawing from selected memory and other forms of ridiculous bias.
You know that those people contradict each other? Its hilarious.
Dude, I totally agree with you. Recently all the forums I've seen about superman battles, he's always criticized for being "OP" and crap like that. I love superman more than any other hero, and like many he's always been the biggest childhood idol. I guess this generation doesn't appreciate a super hero with morals and a sense to actually be good. Super man never thinks what's best for one person, but everyone. How is he so "hated" on at this point. And how is he stupid for being too "OP" when we have people like Rune King Thor (I love Thor, don't get me wrong) and Chaos King Hercules that don/t have any sense of weakness towards them at all. They say DC is over powered but most characters has a weakness.
I am a Superman fan tried and true, and I understand your frustration at all these people hating on him. That was partly the basis of a thread I made a while back asking why people think 'dark and gritty' is synonymous with 'good', which isn't true all the time.
However, I acknowledge Superman and Batman as the two greatest Superheroes ever (even though Spider-Man is my second). They are too iconic.
Anyway, here's a parting gift I leave to everyone who likes to argue:
@sinestro_GL: Because according to his fans he can " easily" deal with anybody no contest. it's too much. I can imaging a superman vs god post with some fan saying " Supes no contest" -___- and no i'm not talking about a comic book depiction but actual god the creator of everything even superman.
The way i see it it's simple fights; you win some you lose some don't mean the character is crap.
@Jewlz_Verne: Yeah, you're not quoting his fans. Fans are well versed in the character and know when he would lose. You're quoting idiots. Besides, I don't see how this is Superman specific, seeing as how a lot of morons say their favorite character would beat everyone. Batman is another good example of this.
@YoggSaron: Very true. I like superman, don't follow his comic but I know enough to know the writers got a bit carried away with him moving planets and such, same thing with the Hulk when he held a planet together. People forget that superman might not have been able to fly originally ( don't hold me to that) his speed was compared to a speeding bullet ( the speed of sound) and his strength was that of a train. Hulk once died from falling off a helicopter ( old series). I blame the writers for their inconsistency.
@Jewlz_Verne: the power levels of characters being changed since their original inception is no reason to hate on a chatacter.. things are bound to change since their stories have been going on for decades. admitedly superman's silver age powers were ridiculous but the pre new 52 power level was good in my book. besides its the same with 90% of superhero comic book characters... no one has remained same since their introduction.
When he was created, he epitomized suburban America's christian values; which annoy me. Then he gets his powers amped every time a stronger hero comes along. Originally Superman couldn't fly, then Namor came along flying, so Superman was upgraded; that is also annoying.
I generally don't like typical superheroes, my favorites are Silver Surfer, Ghost Rider, and Punisher; none of which consider themselves superheroes.
@cloudzackvincent: Obviously characters will change but lets not lose sight of who they are But something is seriously wrong when even the writers say "erm... I think we took this a bit too far" when you say a Super he can lift this or he is this fast... that should be pretty much that give or take a bit. When you have a character that is faster than a speeding bullet and suddenly their flying to other galaxies in a few hours?? but yeah it's lazy writing.
Anyway, I don't hate superman or any super that I can actually think of now. What I hate are superfans who don't understand their characters limitations and I hate the lazy writers who destroy good characters.
This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:
Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along
with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely
increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.
Comment and Save
Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other
Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll
send you an email once approved.
Log in to comment