Superman vs. Magic!!

#1 Posted by BattleMage (1128 posts) - - Show Bio

So DC just officially told all of his (Superman) fans that he is vulnerable to magic!! 
And i've seen soo many debates on this fact. Glad it's finally set straight.  

  And that magic there wasn't even high caliber MAGIC.
#2 Posted by Mercy_ (92674 posts) - - Show Bio

The way this is presented isn't as a battle.

Moderator
#3 Posted by KnightmareMegasTTGL (84 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman will never really be rid of his weakness to magic. Any showings of him being unaffected by Magic are just the writers being ignorant.

#4 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio

You did this to yourself. 
 
1. This is not a battle. 
2. Really? 
3. That is an animated battle scene, which bares no relevance on New Earth SuperMan. 
4. Even if it was, one battle does not translate to the several others in which SuperMan has fought magical opponents. 
5. Really? 
6. SuperMan is not weak to magic. He simply has no special resistance to it.
#5 Posted by sa5m (2112 posts) - - Show Bio
@KnightmareMegasTTGL said:
" Superman will never really be rid of his weakness to magic. Any showings of him being unaffected by Magic are just the writers being ignorant. "
he dosnt have a weakness to magic...when will people learn....
#6 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

He didn't say magic weakened Superman just that he was vulnerable to it.

#7 Posted by DrTyrannical (1303 posts) - - Show Bio

Not having a resistance to something when you're almost invulnerable is considered a weakness. When will people learn is right.

#8 Posted by Cypher's Gambit (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
@sa5m said:
" @KnightmareMegasTTGL said:
" Superman will never really be rid of his weakness to magic. Any showings of him being unaffected by Magic are just the writers being ignorant. "
he dosnt have a weakness to magic...when will people learn.... "
Actually... That depends which Superman.
#9 Posted by Cypher's Gambit (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
@DrTyrannical said:
" Not having a resistance to something when you're almost invulnerable is considered a weakness. When will people learn is right. "
Well said. "Resistance" is not "Invulnerable".
#10 Posted by BattleMage (1128 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
"
You did this to yourself.  1. This is not a battle. 2. Really? 3. That is an animated battle scene, which bares no relevance on New Earth SuperMan. 4. Even if it was, one battle does not translate to the several others in which SuperMan has fought magical opponents. 5. Really? 6. SuperMan is not weak to magic. He simply has no special resistance to it. "
Ok, show me where it says " WEAK " to magic. Thank you
#11 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

1)Nice Non-cannon movie
2) Vulnerable to magic  does equal a weakness. e.g. wonderwoman is vulnerable to blades, does that eman any thug with a knife can post a threat? No. 
3) Too many idiots can't tell the difference between being vulnerable  to something to a weakness. 

#12 Posted by Cypher's Gambit (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

If you HAVE to resist it.... Then that means it's a weakness.

#13 Posted by BattleMage (1128 posts) - - Show Bio
@DrTyrannical said:
" Not having a resistance to something when you're almost invulnerable is considered a weakness. When will people learn is right. "
#14 Posted by sxgt (239 posts) - - Show Bio

people will dismiss stuff they personally do not agree with.
#15 Posted by sa5m (2112 posts) - - Show Bio
@Death Certificate said:
" 1)Nice Non-cannon movie2) Vulnerable to magic  does equal a weakness. e.g. wonderwoman is vulnerable to blades, does that eman any thug with a knife can post a threat? No. 3) Too many idiots can't tell the difference between being vulnerable  to something to a weakness.  "
QFT
#16 Posted by termiteone4ever (7125 posts) - - Show Bio
@BattleMage:
Why you using the cartoon version?  
Whats up with this red blast from superman? 
In comics it takes very powerful magic to really Do some serious damage to superman.
#17 Posted by KnightmareMegasTTGL (84 posts) - - Show Bio
@termiteone4ever said:
" @BattleMage: Why you using the cartoon version?  Whats up with this red blast from superman? In comics it takes very powerful magic to really Do some serious damage to superman. "
No it doesn't. He's been hurt by magic that would barely kill a human before.
#18 Edited by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman was killed by magic in The Obsidian Age story arc.

#19 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said:
" Superman was killed by magic in The Obsidian Age story arc. "
Everyone in the JLA died in the Obsidian Age. That only proves so much. 
#20 Posted by BattleMage (1128 posts) - - Show Bio
@Death Certificate said:
" 1)Nice Non-cannon movie2) Vulnerable to magic  does equal a weakness. e.g. wonderwoman is vulnerable to blades, does that eman any thug with a knife can post a threat? No. 3) Too many idiots can't tell the difference between being vulnerable  to something to a weakness.  "
Name calling gets you're opinion nowhere!
#21 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:
Is that even cannon?
#22 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio
@BattleMage:
So you admit being an idiot?
#23 Posted by termiteone4ever (7125 posts) - - Show Bio
@KnightmareMegasTTGL said:
" @termiteone4ever said:
" @BattleMage: Why you using the cartoon version?  Whats up with this red blast from superman? In comics it takes very powerful magic to really Do some serious damage to superman. "
No it doesn't. He's been hurt by magic that would barely kill a human before. "

Show me a scan this magic so weak a human could survives and it hurt him.
I have seen Superman survive and with stand various forms of magical attacks.
#24 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @kadeem said:
" Superman was killed by magic in The Obsidian Age story arc. "
Everyone in the JLA died in the Obsidian Age. That only proves so much.  "
Yeah, it proves that Superman is vulnerable to magic.
#25 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Death Certificate said:
" @Silver2467: Is that even cannon? "
Yes. 
 
@kadeem said:
" @Silver2467 said:
" @kadeem said:
" Superman was killed by magic in The Obsidian Age story arc. "
Everyone in the JLA died in the Obsidian Age. That only proves so much.  "
Yeah, it proves that Superman is vulnerable to magic. "
First of all, I just went through that fight again, and I never saw any magic involved. All I saw was SuperMan engaging in a fist fight with one of the ancient Atlantean League members and losing, resulting in his death. Second, no, it does not. Even if it was magic that killed him, the Martian was killed by fire in that arc by having his body engulfed with flames. Do you have any idea how many times Pre-Fernus Martian Manhunter has been set on fire and survived? He has been near the surface of the sun and was caught in some solar flares. He was burned as the moon was swiftly entering earth's atmosphere while he himself was on the moon. He has been blasted by Fire. His body was set on fire by BatMan during Tower of Babel. I could list other examples. The point is he survived. Was he weak to fire during the Obsidian Age? Yes. Is there legitimate reason it should have killed him when he survived it so many other times? No. The entire JLA was killed during the Obsidian Age for plot purposes. 
#26 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @Death Certificate said:
" @Silver2467: Is that even cannon? "
Yes. 
 
@kadeem said:
" @Silver2467 said:
" @kadeem said:
" Superman was killed by magic in The Obsidian Age story arc. "
Everyone in the JLA died in the Obsidian Age. That only proves so much.  "
Yeah, it proves that Superman is vulnerable to magic. "
First of all, I just went through that fight again, and I never saw any magic involved. All I saw was SuperMan engaging in a fist fight with one of the ancient Atlantean League members and losing, resulting in his death. Second, no, it does not. Even if it was magic that killed him, the Martian was killed by fire in that arc by having his body engulfed with flames. Do you have any idea how many times Pre-Fernus Martian Manhunter has been set on fire and survived? He has been near the surface of the sun and was caught in some solar flares. He was burned as the moon was swiftly entering earth's atmosphere while he himself was on the moon. He has been blasted by Fire. His body was set on fire by BatMan during Tower of Babel. I could list other examples. The point is he survived. Was he weak to fire during the Obsidian Age? Yes. Is there legitimate reason it should have killed him when he survived it so many other times? No. The entire JLA was killed during the Obsidian Age for plot purposes.  "
The League of Ancients was mostly magically powered so yes it was magic that killed him.  J'onn has survived fire in the past because he has the ability to regenerate from the smallest bit of his mass (while Superman doesn't).  Khan was able to kill J'onn because he thoroughly burned every last bit of his mass, but your comparing Kal to J'onn is a complete red herring argument and should be dismissed as such.
#27 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said: 

The League of Ancients was mostly magically powered so yes it was magic that killed him.  

Being magically empowered and using magic in combat are two completely different things. If that were the case, Wonder Woman would floor SuperMan in every fight they have, but such is not the case. 
 

J'onn has survived fire in the past because he has the ability to regenerate from the smallest bit of his mass (while Superman doesn't).    

No, that is not why. The Martian in Tower of Babel had his entire body on fire and subsequently set a forest on fire. When Diana and Flash put the fire out, his entire body was still intact. No regeneration there. When Fire blasted him, he was on the ground, no separation of his mass. No regeneration there. When he was near the sun and was hit by solar flares, his body was intact. So, no, regeneration is not why. You're commenting on instances you have never seen.

 

Khan was able to kill J'onn because he thoroughly burned every last bit of his mass, 

Wrong. 
 
His body is no more burned than in any of the other examples I mentioned. Again, you are commenting on instances you have never even seen.

but your comparing Kal to J'onn is a complete red herring argument and should be dismissed as such. "

SuperMan surviving magic multiple times before and the Martian surviving fire multiple times before are exactly the same, not to mention that there was no magic involved in SuperMan's death during the Obsidian Age anyway, and you have not even addressed the original reason I brought it up, which was that they all died for plot purposes.
#28 Posted by BattleMage (1128 posts) - - Show Bio
@Death Certificate said:
" @BattleMage: So you admit being an idiot? "
Ask you're mother what she thinks...
#29 Posted by Jodin20723 (79 posts) - - Show Bio

i think the Weakness to magic is more specific then some people realize. some magics superman can over come and fight off, it seems to be more along the line of enchantations and spells then anything.
#30 Posted by Band Lone (1789 posts) - - Show Bio

Hes always been weak against magic is nothing new
 

#31 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

THIS IS THE MOST NECESSARY THREAD EVER!

#32 Posted by hydrabob (14977 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" THIS IS THE MOST NECESSARY THREAD EVER! "
is there a typographical error there
#33 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@hydrabob said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" THIS IS THE MOST NECESSARY THREAD EVER! "
is there a typographical error there "
Sarcasm, mate ;)
#34 Posted by hydrabob (14977 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @hydrabob said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" THIS IS THE MOST NECESSARY THREAD EVER! "
is there a typographical error there "
Sarcasm, mate ;) "
Amazing you people are so good at doing that gets me everytime gosh
#35 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@hydrabob said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @hydrabob said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" THIS IS THE MOST NECESSARY THREAD EVER! "
is there a typographical error there "
Sarcasm, mate ;) "
Amazing you people are so good at doing that gets me everytime gosh "
Charming.
#36 Posted by Valtot (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

if you mean by human standards hes strong against magic but in someone his power level hes weak against it

#37 Posted by Valtot (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

hmm lots to say on the subject ok superman had shown being able to resist magic first of all otherwise hed be dead with 1 shazam,
now superman has a magic dispel aura on him till proven otherwise, given by phantom stranger. He has learnt about magic from zatanna. There was 1 theory i heard that superman has been growing resistant to magic anyway like he did in kingdom come by absorbing highly concentration magic lightning So its ok to say that superman is atleast more magic resistance now than he usedto be

#38 Posted by 9dragons (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@valtot:

Sadly no one can has 100% answer for magic because of the many types that exist. There is direct magic and indirect magic. Direct magic, shooting a magical blast at the target and Indirect magic, conjuring objects, Kryptonite, Magic absorption, adsorbing superman's magic aura, enhancing physical attributes etc. Example, a magic user with enough power can make himself superman and all his punches and kicks would be physical.

#39 Posted by WIshIWasSuperman (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

Being vulnerable (as in not impervious to it) to something and having something as a "weakness" seems to be the biggest problem with this sort of stuff. It happens all the time and some people seem to get it, while others can't distinguish between the two terms.

Official definition of Weakness (from Dictionary.com)

1. the state or quality of being weak; lack of strength, firmness, vigor, or the like; feebleness.

2.an inadequate or defective quality, as in a person's character; slight fault or defect: to show great sympathy for human weaknesses.

3.a self-indulgent liking or special fondness, as for a particular thing: I've always had a weakness for the opera.

4.an object of special desire; something very difficult to resist: Chocolates were her weakness.

Official definition of vulnerability (again, from Dictionary.com)

1.capable of or susceptible to being wounded or hurt, as by a weapon: a vulnerable part of the body.

2.open to moral attack, criticism, temptation, etc.: an argument vulnerable to refutation; He is vulnerable to bribery.

3.(of a place) open to assault; difficult to defend: a vulnerable bridge.

4.Bridge. having won one of the games of a rubber.

So based on the above you would say he is vulnerable to magic as it is able to hurt him. Red Sunlight however is not a vulnerability as it doesn't directly hurt him, however it DOES affect his powers, making him vulnerable (to anything) - thus it would be considered a weakness. Depending on how it's written, Kryptonite could be considered both, since it DOES hurt him, and makes him weak and vulnerable to other types of attacks.

Does that clear it up now?

besides - this thread isn't really a question anyway - he's always been considered to be susceptible to magic. I'm failing to see what point is trying to be proven here.

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