I think both Jim and Clark are calm minded people. I feel he could explain himself.

*Sees the Batman/Superman preview*

Well that's just confirming all my fears about Truth and then some. Superman riding a motorcycle is about as dumb and ridiculously edgy as I thought it would be. Worse, Superman is being written as even more brash and bullheaded than usual which is seriously devolving Superman's character back even further than it needs to be. He may as well be called Super-Punk at this point, rushing in fists swinging without a second thought is not the best way to write Superman, he's more than a dumb brawler even if Pak keeps forgetting that to twist Superman's character into how he wants to write his story. And Supes' powers seem barely superhuman anymore, I didn't think he'd lose so much power that Bat-Chappie could beat him up. Seems like it's going to be tough to be a Superman fan for the next year with writing like this.

@lvenger: It was meant to be. Spider-man fans had to endure, Wolverine fans, Thor fans and Iron Man fans. Now it is our turn :P

@lvenger: Not only that all of what you said is true but also think about that there will be yet again a story, writen by Pak, in which there will be a Superman/Batman fight. I mean since he started the book and has had power over them in their combined book, he has made them fight at least three times if I remember correctly.

Something really wrong has happened with Pak and I am not liking it.

It's happening, the Superior sickness has crossed over to DC now infecting both Superman and Batman with pointless and purposefully controversial status quo changes.That's a gimmick I didn't want DC to start copying from Marvel :/

One at the beginning, one with the e2 Batman, one in the second arc, one in the annual. I count at least four occasions.

Another tragic thing is, that this is nothing more than the Superman version of Pak's Herc volume. Where he depowered Hercules. And which was the weakest part of his run. Check out Grek Pak comics in 5 panels. It is hilarious.

@tdk_1997: That's a good point, several of Pak's Batman/Superman stories have had a Batman vs Superman fight in them. There's repetition and then there's just putting the same event in every story for whatever reason. I don't know why Pak isn't writing with the same spark and creativity he had over at Marvel, he can do so much better than this. And Yang's also a creative writer, bringing him in just to write a mandated crossover is a waste of his talents.

Has Waezi done a 5 panels blog on Greg Pak's work? Hilarious, I'll go have a look at it. Can't believe I forgot this is all too similar to Pak's depowering Hercules storyline. At least Pak gave Hercules cool mythological weaponry and focused more on his fighting skills, we're not getting a smarter or more resourceful Superman out of Truth thus far.

I guess I left a few out. And now this one is going to be the fifth one.

I agree that Pak seems like he aint at that top level he was a few years ago, but to be honest I havent seen him write any particulary good stories in a few years. After he finished his Hulk run everything else has been even below average. He disappoints me a lot lately. I haven't read a single thing from Yang, so I cannot really say if they are wasting his/her potential.

@tdk_1997: Yang's done some solid work in the independent creative sphere, Shadow Hero is critically acclaimed and has even earned Yang some literary prize nominations. Also, his Avatar graphic novels for Dark Horse capture the spirit of Avatar: The Last Airbender and serve as excellent world building source material for ATLA IMO.

Then I hope he does a good job on Superman after Truth ends. I think in the FCBD issue from DC he made a pretty good short story to introduce us to what is coming for Superman. I trust your words but I am still sceptical for this guy.

@superguy1591 Did you read the B/S review yet.

I am waiting for a reaction :P

@tdk_1997: Believe me, I'm not looking forward to Yang's work on Superman anymore. Initially I was excited on the hype of what Yang could be doing. To think Yang's creative talent is being wasted on a story Truth is planning to tell really annoys me for what we could be reading of Yang's take on Superman and his world instead.

Hmmm Batman/Superman looks like sh*t. Doomed still looks like sh*t. I haven't seen the preview for Superman yet, but at least AC and Bizzaro look interesting.

Heh, classic Luthor.kicks Clark when he's down

Yeah, it is really a big put back. After Truth ends we may see him do whatever he wants with the character but it wouldn't be the same since Truth would have had happened in the past and Superman would be changed.

The Superman preview isn't anything extraordinary it just ease you to the status quo.

Exactly, Yang's introduction into Superman comics is now a poorly planned out and misunderstood crossover where the writers are taking huge liberties and gut wrenchingly poor decisions with Superman's status quo and plot direction. Despite Yang's solid work beforehand, I am still going to find it very hard to even consider trusting Yang's future work on Superman. At this point, I just want a new creative team to take over from the mess the current Superman writers have thrown Superman into. Despite the rabid Pak fanboys on these boards, Action Comics and Batman/Superman are far from being Pak's best work. In fact, this funny Comics in 5 panels piece by @waezi2 shows just how repetitive Pak's writing can truly be.

More like it throws the reader into an uncertain and random scenario in the middle of Truth where they just have to pick up the pieces and deal with how Yang decided he wanted to write the Super-'Man of the People.' Ugh and I had such high hopes for him too.

Pak and Kuder said this idea was a "collaborative" effort of the editors and writers over many months. And Yang is new in the game. So I find it only logical he would want to start with a bang. Its unfortunate though that Pak has such a fetish for angsty,brawler Superman. It could just as well, change the course of this event.

@lvenger:

@squalleon: Collaboration doesn't always mean equal participation. There's no way of knowing which side contributed the most damaging concepts and premises for this series, especially since the Superman editors have been control freaks throughout the New 52. I don't see why Pak is so obsessed with the flawed tortured brute depiction of Superman, as Morrison had Superman quote in Action Comics #18, Superman is so much more than a simple brute.

That's what I mean that this idea, can very well be something the editorial and Pak thought of. And Yang went for it because it will drive people to check the title.
Probably because that is all he can write. Seriously I really don't know how to explain it. Pak's Superman can be summed up in five stages:

• Enter without thinking
• Make a mistake
• Grief, hate yourself.
• Never reach conclusion.
• Repeat.

@squalleon: I agree with you Squall, my point though is about how we honestly can't tell whose main idea it was, editorial or creators? It's not as clear as an event like Doomed or Krypton Returns was in the editor influence.

A very accurate summation and one I'm getting tired of. Pak's better than this, and he's a fan of classic Superman too. For this to be his interpretation of how he thinks Superman acts is quite disappointing for a decently talented writer.

Don't forget only Hulk is HIS masterpiece. In Incredible Herc he co-wrote it with La Vente. Also Chaos War and Herc were horrible. So...not much to show for.

@squalleon: Yep, Van Lente co-wrote Hercules with Pak, I do indeed recall that. Despite the series' enjoyable quality, Pak cannot take all the credit for it with the presence of a co-writer. And speaking of co-writers, Pak said in a Newsarama interview that Kuder will be co-writing Action Comics with him during Truth.

He always did since issue one. They had mentioned it before in Newsarama(again) They do it the Marvel way. Were Pak writes plot, Kuder draws the pages and then Pak writes dialogue above.

I believe that's called 'plot driven' cooperation or something like that. However, I thought that Newsarama interview indicated that Kuder would play a greater role in writing this time round.

Most of his Herc run was extremely good. His Exiles run, War Machine run, Alpha Flight miniseries and Dr. Strange Graphic Novel were fantastic. His run on Storm has been great so far and his short work on the X-men was good. I have enjoyed most of his work on Superman but agree that Doomed and now Truth are 2 huge steps backward. The only thing he has ever written that was sub par was the Marvel Nemesis tie in series.

I didn't read it fully, maybe it did. But he always played a role in the writing department.

Again, "his" Herc run was co-written with La Vente, who still provides top material for Valiant, with the same quality. I feel there is never something groundbreaking in his solo works, maybe except Hulk. His Dr. Stange: Season One is just good (not fantastic definitely), same with War Machine. He usually just provides pleasant 1-2 reads for characters not many care for, so they don't have a scale to compare. And that isn't a bad thing, Geoff Johns does the same, but he does it a bit better. But his Superman run is just overrated imo. His first arc was good for example (not fantastic or groundbreaking) and his best so far but even that had plot-holes, unresolved until today :P
I just feel he is an overrated writer thats all.

I wouldn't say that we shouldn't trust him anymore because there have been times when even during a bad crossover, a writer can shine brightly and rise as a star either for the character or in the whole industry even. I say, we should wait and see what the guy has to offer and to hope for the best.

The Superman part of the DC Universe just started cleaning up itself and now with Johns' departure and the happening of Convergence it will all become a mess once again. The only good books and runs since the start of the New 52 on SUperman have been Morrison and Johns. Everybody else's, even Pak's, have been either boring or amazingly bad.

Yeahhh, Pak really does repeat himself a lot. It's not that he's that bad of a writer but he doesn;t have any new ideas and he redoes his old runs on the new characters he starts writing.

Here, I'll quote what Pak says "Pak: Aaron is actually co-writing Action Comics with me. We started off with me as a writer and Aaron as the artist, and we worked really collaboratively in those roles, but at a certain point, we said, hey, it's time to take the next step. And I couldn't be happier. It's exciting working this intensely and collaboratively with an artist." Kuder's definitely moved up to being co-writer as well as artist. Not sure how I feel about that tbh, Kuder should just stick with what he's good at.

It's just hard to believe Yang could turn his stories around after beginning his run on what is essentially a deconstructive devolution of Superman setting him backwards under the pretense of original storytelling. Maybe we should wait and see what Yang does after Truth is over but sometimes, writers are more suited to write at a specific character, company or a genre which is shown when they try to write something else. Bendis is notoriously bad at the traditional superhero genre but his noir/street stuff is critically praised.

Exactly, this is another reason why I'm so ticked off with Truth. Johns had just made changes to the Superman status quo that a writer could run with and develop to their fruition. But instead, this event is just piling more changes and more twists onto the Superman line to see if they attract enough attention. If they keep repeating inconsistent shifts to Superman stories, there won't be any stability, development or evolution in Superman's character or world building.

I fear that may be the case having read some of his Hulk and Hercules run. Pak plays a lot of the same tricks over and over. Whilst they worked on some stories, it's becoming a little too obvious now. Especially when the 'depowering the hero and making them angsty' has been done on Planet Hulk and Hercules, and done much better too.

I will try to find the interview I was talking about.

Also I get what you mean. Kuder is officially a co-writer.

You are very right there, indeed. Another thing that might actually occur is that he might not have the chance to do anything with Superman other than stick to Truth because DC's editors might not be letting him do so. That is one of the biggest problems working for the major companies, not having enought own creative ground on which you can build upon. Most of the times writers aren't given enough freedom and they don't write with passion at all and the story becomes a big mess.

Everything that is happening with Superman and everybody else, apart from Batman, is because DC want yet again to 'start from scrap'. It;s all a big marketing move which should draw more readers which means more money for them. Of course the only good thing about this is that we are actually getting lots of cool new books, but the old ones seems like they will suck hard.

I've lost interest in Pak's writing right after he finished up his Hulk run. I didn't even quite like his end to the run. He is one of those writers who are either great or they are pretty mediocre and even worse. He's not consistent enough. The only thing he is consistent with is that he is actually writing the same story all over again but with different characters.

Yeah I get what you mean. I enoyed his Dr. Strange GN immensely bu that's me. I never even blinked twice about WM but Pak had me eagerly reading his title. I love the way he goes for underknown concepts and characters and breathes a little life into hem and the way he focuses on emotion and power but he isn't perfect and far from the best. I enjoy his work on Superman but do agree it is overrated and not as good as some of his other stuff. I found his first arc to be killer but he hasn't been as good since.

Which is okay as we all have different tastes. Some people despise Bendis wheras he's one of my favorite writers. The only writer I will not tolerate bashing for is Morrison.

I enjoyed Dr. Strange too. But I never as you said, went back to it again. He is put into lesser character's rather than choose them I think. At least that's the way Marvel does job. They mostly offer titles as opposed to accepting pitches. Or that's what I have heard from various writers like Ellis and Hickman. Yeah his first arc was great. I never understood why he felt Baka had to be a prince though. It just didn't make sense :P

I think Bendis is good in a certain style. He is one of the best when it comes to Noir. He can write solo titles well. But he just can't write Blockbuster teams like the X-men and Avengers, and of course events.

Morrison is one of my favorite if not the one. But I accept the criticisms because they are usually valid. I accept the criticisms for AC for example. They are true, its just that I love the character and ambiguous ideas so much that I forgive it :P

I have but everyone enjoyes everything differently. No that's not how it works. It's usually the writer who talks about certain teams/characters they love and if they are succesful enough Marvelusually offers them a pitch for that title. Pak has a huge affinity for Storm so Marvel offered him the chance to write her book. Same thing happened with WM, Dr. Strange Season One and Alpha Flight. Either way I love Baka.

Really I loved his Avengers work immensely and only found his work on The Avengers title got stale with Fear Itself and afterwards wheras New Avengers never faltered. I enjoy his X-men stuff but I do agree his Guardians is not the greatest thing in the world. The only event that I hated that he did was Age of Ultron. I enjoyed the rest.

Depends on the criticism since usually I just here "it's too complicated so it sucks". His AC run did have some faults but as you said a blind affinity for a Character and a Writer helps in these situations and you tend to let things slide.

Haven't read New Avengers past the first arc. I have read his and JRJR's run, which introduced the Age of Ultron concept and I found it okay. I despise his X-men stuff, especially All New X-men. Low plot progression (which irritates me the most), all characters talk in Bendis-speech and his story-arcs usually fell flat for me. I haven't read his Guardians. I have read Age of Ultron. And I asked myself how Marvel decided to print this. At one point I wondered how many people were going to buy just because it is an event. I still think the collector mentality is strong and it must be eradicated :P
As for the rest. His Moon Knight, is enjoyable but again the characters talk in Bendis-Speech. I personally wasn't angry about the personality changes of Marc because I wasn't a fan at the time enough to care. So it was enjoyable. His Daredevil is just magnificent I hear. Want to read it someday.
His creative owned work Powers say it is usually good, but currently it suffers from low plot progression. Btw have you read it? I want to read it and I want to see if it deserves my money.

Except the "complicated" I don't have seen other major criticism that is Morrison's fault. Another is the art, but what can Morrison do about it :P Its true after Final Crisis, he started losing his touch, he started declining. He probably was overworked. Even Multiversity which was overall enjoyable, didn't feel like an epic that would take 7 years to plan :P And except the gems that were Pax Americana, Thunderworld and Mastermen(okay it was to me :P), the event was a good read. But still you expected better considering the 7 year hype.

I enjoyed basically his entire run but once Romita left it went downhill for the Avengers title. I don't mind low plot progression. Hickman andStracynzki do this as well and it never deters from the quality of the writing imho. What is Bendis - Speech. If you disliked his X-men and found some of his Avengers work that you read okay (I suggest you read more from Dissasembled to Siege is fantastic the rest you can take or leave)then don't bother with Guardians. I actually enjoyed the first 5 issues of Age of Ultron it was a nice post apocalyptic take on the MU and built up some nice tension. Then the last issues were utter garbage and ruined the entire event. I bought it since it's part of his Avengers work.....I wish he never did it.

I disliked Moon Knight but he had me checking it out and enjoying what I read. His Daredevil is imo the best Daredevil run you need to read same for his Spider-Man.

Powers is great you should check it out. It's no Astro City or Invisibles but it's really good.

well the art never bothers me since i'm not someone who focuses on art. I fthe stories good and the art's good it's bonus. Depends on what you mean by declining. I still loved his AC run and the rest of his Batman work and I honestly loved Multiversity. Was it worth a 7 year wait? not really. It's still one of the best comcis in recent years. Yes Thunderworld and Pax were masterpiece's and Master Men left me wanting so much more (in a good way). Ehhh I thought it delivered but I would have loved and issue all about the Retaliators that would have been great.

I'm not sure where that they should be building up his world and supporting cast complaints considering most interviews specifically state that's one of the intentions of the event, including Yang focusing on developing new 52 clark and Lois' relationship.

First, how does taking away the Fortress, his costume and cape, powers, job at The Daily Planet and status quo count as building his world up? Building something new which is contradictory to the character's tone and stories isn't how proper world building is handled. Secondly, the New 52 Clark and Lois relationship is already on unsteady and unclear ground considering how DC have pushed Lois to the side in favour of putting Clark with Wonder Woman instead just for the sake of it. Moreover, Yang tweeted to a Lois fan he's drawing his main inspiration from the 1940s Lois, which is a backwards way of depicting Lois Lane. Why not look at her Silver Age, or especially her Post Crisis history? I don't see how Clark and Lois' relationship can be developed after Lois betrayed her friendship and trust with Clark by revealing his identity.

I think the difference between Hickman and Bendis is that Hickman's scripts are always heavy. So low plot progression is for the best to get the whole picture. Bendis' stories are too straight-forward. So the whole issue seems almost empty. At least that was my main complain about his X-men. As for JMS. He is hit or miss for me. But his stories are usually character driven soap operas so it makes sense.
Bendis Speech is a common mocking term for the lack of individual voices in Bendis' books and repetitive speech patterns. @billy_batson had posted a nice pic which was a great example of Bendis speech. I wonder if he still has it.

Some say his Daredevil run is better than Miller's. But I have made a disservice to myself and haven't read it yet. Cause I am reading Waid's and Smith's small run now. So I got my fix of Daredevil.

Yeah, I will check it out at some point.

I actually care a lot about the art. It is 50% of the story after all. Pacing, layouts etc. They make a mediocre script feel way better. The worst part is some issues that never happened. Like Cooke's Golden Age inspired issue. But Cooke didn't want to do it because he feels typecasted (obviously,he is after all), still I want it :P More Cooke is always good.

I see what you mean with Hickman (love hat guy). Bendis focuses more on character interaction and developing relationships/freindships and growth of said characters over the plot which I enjoy but it isn't for everyone. JMS is generally good his DC stuff is nowhere near as good as his Marvel stuff.

I would love to see the pic.

It's the only DD run other than Millers (since most say it's the definitive) that I bothered to check out and got me into the character more which lead me to picking up Brbuaker's stuff (also very good) and Smith/Loeb's stories Guardian Devil and DD: Yellow.

Hope you enjoy it.

Well for me it depends. If the writing is great and he art is nothing to write home about it doesn't bother me. Great art doesn't change my opinion of a terrible/mediocore story (Lobdell's Superman had fantastic art from Rocafort, Kuder, Kirkham, Lashley, Benes etc) but great art does help my enjoyment of a story/title (Morrison/Quitely on All Star Supes, Aaron/Ribic on God Butcher, Pak/Lopresti/Pagulayan on Planet Hulk etc). Cooke's golden age issues was supposed to be the Society of Superheroes issue if i'm not mistaken so we still got an issue in that genre and expertly done I might add. Cooke is good but I still would've loved a Retaliators issue with Bryan Hitch on art (Not just for his work on Ultimates but also his work on the F4, Authority and the JLA) since he's most known for that widescreen large scale action style that would work perfectly with Morrison who along with Warren Ellis created that style of storytelling with artists Howard Porter and Hitch himself.

I have to read it at some point.

I don't say art can do miracles but I feel it can elevate a story a lot. For example I think Jim Lee was one of the main reasons Mastermen didn't get as well a reception as the other Multiversity comics. His scratchy art and almost non-existent character expressions were a huge minus. While again Lee on ASB&R was the sole reason to read the comic. Good art can make you forget about the details, good art can make the illusion of the story stronger so you can miss them or excuse them.
I thought the SoS issue was the weakest imo. Yeah Hitch on Retaliators would be quite cool. But I just read an interview about his up and coming JLA so I am glad he focused on that title. He could prove to deliver greatness.

Hope you enjoy that as well when you do pick it up.

It wasn't Jim's fault it was the fault of the many inkers and colorists which made the art choppy and inconsistent throughout the title. If it would have just been Scott Williams and Alex Sinclair like it is for most of his work it would have been as scratchy. I felt he did a good job and you could see the toll this was all taking on Overman but that's my opinion. Yes ASB&R was horrible but the art was gorgeous. I see what you mean it's just I would choose a well written comic over a well drawn one.

For me it was the Just issue. See what I mean awesome. Any lnk to the interview? i'm really keen on checking that book out (when you are a diehard Superman and Justice League fan how could you not :p)

There were many inkers because Jim was late and to compensate for the time they adding more inkers to finish up quickly:P
Ditto. I just don't underestimate the importance of the art. For example I think All Star Superman wouldn't be as great if the art wasn't as clean and uplifting and the colors weren't so vibrant. The colors especially did a good job. Jamie Grant's contribution is underrated.

Here.

But doesn't mean it was his artsyle that ruined the book. I see what you mean and great art is important but so is great inking and coloring heck even good lettering will stand out when everything falls together is when you know you have a fantastic comic. Yes the coloring contributed alot to the visuals of the story and kept that silver age feel.

Thanks. Sounds cool. Looking forward to it a little more now.

@squalleon: @theincrediblesuperhulk8642: Bendis speech is sort of where the majority of characters talk like they're young and snarky. It can be similar to Whedon's dialogue. A user whose name forget on this (if you know, please say) said once when comparing Stan Lee to Bendis: "Stan Lee cannot write teenage girl characters, while Bendis write every character as a teenage girl."

Taking away stuff doesn't mean it can't be world building. COIE and beyond proves that and runs such as Morrison's AC work well off it.

Yes, which is why it's good a well renowned writer is dedicating to the New 52 relationship.

There is more than just one interpretation of Superman and his world, relying on a variety has worked well for other characters such as Batman.

Considering the post-crisis version of Lois Lane was created by ignoring the silver age history and using her Golden age interpretation, I don't see the big deal in what he's doing. Using negative interactions to develop a relationship has been a staple of writing since classical times, it's doubtful you've had nothing but positive interactions with your friends in the past.

Wait, the comic about the normal, young everyman that suddenly receives superpowers and superpowers-related-angst has two characters called Mary Ja(y)ne and Aunt May Belle? Seriously?

EDIT: Also, the hipster-douche sorta looks like Peter and the human form of the Doomsday guy looks like Miles.