Superman and the outlaws

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#1 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm so incredibly excited about this.

RHatO 14

Just as the team gets back to Earth in RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #14, they are interrupted by Superman. Why? Maybe it has something to do with the fact there’s a Black Market alien technology being fenced and the Man of Steel has traced a connection to the Red Hood!

Leading up to next month’s “Death of the Family” tie-in issue, RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #14 reunites the creative team of the upcoming SUPERMAN ANNUAL #1, writer Scott Lobdell and guest artist Pascal Alixe.

“Superman vs. the Outlaws!! Even with Starfire, it’s a short fight—but what a fight!” teased series editor Eddie Berganza. “Now what brings the Man of Steel on the trail of Red Hood and company will be leading into bigger things for both this book and SUPERMAN. Stay tuned!”

Below, take an exclusive first look at RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #14 by checking out Kenneth Rocafort’s cover for the issue, which lands in stores on November 21.

So does this also means Superman Annual will be written by Scott Lobdell as well? Excites!

I think I saw the cover to Superman #1 Annual. Can anyone help me find that image. Its the one Ken Rocafort drew. But without the tearing through the pages Background

#2 Posted by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it just me, or does Superman look like Jason Todd.

#3 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@AweSam said:

Is it just me, or does Superman look like Jason Todd.

Indeed. it looks like Jason in a Superman costume.
#4 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

oh man i cant wait to see superman kickin their butts. he'd be like Starfire? B!#ch please......

#5 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

Might pick up this issue. And yeah, apparently they changed the creative team of the Superman Annual.

#6 Posted by ratman19 (525 posts) - - Show Bio

interesting, i might get this

#7 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@AweSam said:

Is it just me, or does Superman look like Jason Todd.

Indeed. it looks like Jason in a Superman costume.

Actually this is a problem with every artist I find.

Ivan Reis' Aquaman looks like Superman.

Gary Frank's Batman looks like Shazam

#8 Posted by Z3RO180 (6588 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: yea rocaforts dudes all look uhh...simaler. Still just gives me another reason to keep buying RHATO.

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#9 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

I just noticed something

Just as the team gets back to Earth in RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS #14, they are interrupted by Superman. Why? Maybe it has something to do with the fact there’s a Black Market alien technology being fenced and the Man of Steel has traced a connection to the Red Hood!

Do you guys think this is somehow connected to Hawkman's storyline. Hawkman wanted?

Where the Black Market alien tech is actually Nth Metal?

#10 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

Looking forward to this!

#11 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5465 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait.

#12 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Still not convinced that Lobdell will do Superman justice. He's a terrible writer, Superboy is perfect proof of that.

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#13 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Still not convinced that Lobdell will do Superman justice. He's a terrible writer, Superboy is perfect proof of that.

Yeah, I'm surprised by how happy so many people are to have him on. We'll see what happens.

#14 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Still not convinced that Lobdell will do Superman justice. He's a terrible writer, Superboy is perfect proof of that.

Superboy #1 - 4/5 stars

#2 - 4/5 stars

Additionally, Superboy started out very well and ifanboy recommended that I pick up Superboy and I have been reading it since then. General consensus was that the issue got bad after Tom Defalco co-written it. I think #10 and #11 were one of the better issues.

IGN gave #9 - 7/10 and mostly 6.5/10 for the other issues.

Additionally the same team with Rocafort and Scott Lobdell that did Red Hood and the outlaws have been getting great reviews almost for every issue. 4/5 stars consistently on Comicvine. Red Hood and the outlaw also has a growing fanbase with 1580 members since its debut last year. Popular video bloggers like Nug and Cymek has also been giving the book tons of praises.

Additionally sales for all 3 of Scott's book were fantastic for the character. TT almost more than double their pre flashpoint numbers and is one of the titles with the lowest drop since #1. RHATO also more than doubled their pre flashpoint numbers if comparing to TT spin off book "Titans". Same goes to Superboy.

But I know, you're pretty biased cos you hate lotsa popular writers like Geoff Johns and Scott Lobdell. So... can't really convince you there.

#15 Posted by Lvenger (20253 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Still not convinced that Lobdell will do Superman justice. He's a terrible writer, Superboy is perfect proof of that.

I'm with you there.

@sethysquare: Bit of a big judgement to make sethy. I know Midget doesn't hate all popular writers. But he thinks Johns hasn't done the Justice League justice (pun intended sorry) and his New 52 stuff hasn't appealed to either him or me. You can't make a judgement based on his opinion on two writers.

Oh and speaking of Superman and Lobdell, have you seen the Superman family crossover news yet?

#16 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman all up in people's bizzzzz!

Teaching them how it's done.

#17 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Oh, you can pick out three reviews entirely that say Superboy has a half-good issue every once in a blue moon. Almost every review the series has received has been consistently "decent" at best. That's nice and all but I'm looking for a writer to make Superman fantastic, not average at best. I'm not one to buy books based off reviews but I know a bad series when I see one and since you brought up IGN reviews, they gave Superboy an overall D in their "progress report" article.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1219917p2.html

And no, I hate Geoff Johns for what he's done to Justice League, he revolutionized Green Lantern in 2004 and made Aquaman relevant again.

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#18 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: We need an awesome Superman writer.
#19 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@sethysquare: Oh, you can pick out three reviews entirely that say Superboy has a half-good issue every once in a blue moon. Almost every review the series has received has been consistently "decent" at best. That's nice and all but I'm looking for a writer to make Superman fantastic, not average at best. I'm not one to buy books based off reviews but I know a bad series when I see one and since you brought up IGN reviews, they gave Superboy an overall D in their "progress report" article.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1219917p2.html

And no, I hate Geoff Johns for what he's done to Justice League, he revolutionized Green Lantern in 2004 and made Aquaman relevant again.

So? IGN gave Justice League Dark C+. That is Peter Milligan we're talking about. Peter Milligan.

The fact is Superboy was decent.

Red Hood and the Outlaws was amazing.

Teen Titans was revolutionized.

RHATO has been getting 4, 4.5 and 5 stars. And that is the creative team coming over to Superman.

We can't do anything worst than Jurgens or Perez's run.

Besides, people are excited about this creative team also due to how beautiful Ken Rocafort has been drawing his characters. Plus the fact that Scott has great ideas and he constantly bring new stuff to his books, introduce new villains, revamp old villains, that is someone that Superman needs right now. He has lotsa ideas and they're always very fluid and never changes them. Editorial especially have a huge leash on Superman due to the movie and he is DC's most important character that started the whole superhero universe. This is probably why Perez and Jurgens have difficulties writing a good story. But Scott never have a 1 year plan or 2 year plan, he is very fluid and flexible which makes him a perfect writer for Superman at this point of time.

Just read around this forum. People were actually praising Scott's work on Teen Titans because they felt he did the best he can with what was given to him. Especially since TT is also another book that has lotsa editorial mandate. From possible previous TT to no TT. So to call him a "Terrible writer" is utterly unfair.

If you could admit that he is an OK writer with some average and some good issues but you don't like his writing style, then I think its a more objective.

#20 Posted by Dernman (15160 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a fan of his Superman art.

#21 Posted by BatWatch (2762 posts) - - Show Bio

I think if I were on a team that ended up in a fight with Kal-El, I would just lean up against a wall and chill as my teammates got torn apart and hope that Superman would find a fairly gentle way to subdue me. I might find a pair of handcuffs and lock myself up. Regardless, I wouldn't impotently attack him and risk being maimed.

@Lvenger:

I third the opinion the Lodbell sucks.

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#22 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Still not convinced that Lobdell will do Superman justice. He's a terrible writer, Superboy is perfect proof of that.

I'm with you there.

@sethysquare: Bit of a big judgement to make sethy. I know Midget doesn't hate all popular writers. But he thinks Johns hasn't done the Justice League justice (pun intended sorry) and his New 52 stuff hasn't appealed to either him or me. You can't make a judgement based on his opinion on two writers.

Oh and speaking of Superman and Lobdell, have you seen the Superman family crossover news yet?

Yes, I would say its a little bit of a sweeping statement there. Sorry about that Midget. Because last I converse with him, he hated everything Geoff Johns, so I sorta drew that conclusion.

#23 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@Deranged Midget: We need an awesome Superman writer.

That's exactly my point. I don't want Lobdell because I KNOW he won't make Superman a fantastic series as Snyder does with Batman, or Azarrello with Wonder Woman, Johns with Aquaman, or Manapul with Flash. We don't need another average series, we need a series that makes the character noticeable and relevant.

They need someone who understands the character and evidently, Lobdell doesn't connect well with Kon.

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#24 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: Look at what's coming next year as well.
#25 Posted by HotSauceCommittee (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Still not convinced that Lobdell will do Superman justice. He's a terrible writer, Superboy is perfect proof of that.

Superboy #1 - 4/5 stars

#2 - 4/5 stars

Additionally, Superboy started out very well and ifanboy recommended that I pick up Superboy and I have been reading it since then. General consensus was that the issue got bad after Tom Defalco co-written it. I think #10 and #11 were one of the better issues.

IGN gave #9 - 7/10 and mostly 6.5/10 for the other issues.

Additionally the same team with Rocafort and Scott Lobdell that did Red Hood and the outlaws have been getting great reviews almost for every issue. 4/5 stars consistently on Comicvine. Red Hood and the outlaw also has a growing fanbase with 1580 members since its debut last year. Popular video bloggers like Nug and Cymek has also been giving the book tons of praises.

Additionally sales for all 3 of Scott's book were fantastic for the character. TT almost more than double their pre flashpoint numbers and is one of the titles with the lowest drop since #1. RHATO also more than doubled their pre flashpoint numbers if comparing to TT spin off book "Titans". Same goes to Superboy.

But I know, you're pretty biased cos you hate lotsa popular writers like Geoff Johns and Scott Lobdell. So... can't really convince you there.

YOUR OPINION IS WRONG! SEE IGN SAID SO HERP DERP. Lmao really?

I completely agree with midget, dropped Red Hood and Teen Titans, so mediocre, and the Red Robin mess? Not a fan of Lobdells, bit worried for Supes, especially with Grant leaving.

The fact that they're crossing over so soon doesn't exactly inspire confidence either.

#26 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@SandMan_ said:

@Deranged Midget: We need an awesome Superman writer.

That's exactly my point. I don't want Lobdell because I KNOW he won't make Superman a fantastic series as Snyder does with Batman, or Azarrello with Wonder Woman, Johns with Aquaman, or Manapul with Flash. We don't need another average series, we need a series that makes the character noticeable and relevant.

They need someone who understands the character and evidently, Lobdell doesn't connect well with Kon.

Explain doesn't connect well with Kon.

Also Kon isn't Kal. They're very very different characters.

#27 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: I'm not trashing on his work with Red Hood, I have little interest in it and I have never read it. I'm focusing on what he's done with Superboy and it isn't anything to brag about. He made the series decent at best, we don't need another decent series with Superman because that's all we've been getting. Sure, the art we've seen from the upcoming series looks pretty good but that doesn't compensate for the lack of a good story. The two need to mesh well together to make a fantastic book and that's exactly the opposite of what I'm expecting from Lobdell based solely off of his work with Superboy.

The characters are similar enough, if he can't make one of them relevant, he's not going to do much better with the other who's far more iconic and is in a larger need of a kickstart.

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#28 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

Yes, I would say its a little bit of a sweeping statement there. Sorry about that Midget. Because last I converse with him, he hated everything Geoff Johns, so I sorta drew that conclusion.

No harm done.

@sethysquare said:

Explain doesn't connect well with Kon.

Also Kon isn't Kal. They're very very different characters.

Not really. They're both extremely powerful characters, one with an altered origin from the other but basically representing the same thing except a lot more is riding on Lobdell making Superman a better series which he has failed to do so with Superboy.

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#29 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: See the thing is, Scott started Superboy very very well. It was a critic favourite. But the problem with it was it was too bogged down by Teen Titans because theres too much inter connectivity.

If you have read Superboy before it got too connected to TT, you can tell that this is a very well written take on the character. Its very modern, very updated and with plenty of character development.

He has not done a bad job on Superboy by any means. But he has done something different and nostalgic fans don't react to that because they're upset he changed things up. But at the end of the day, I find myself really compelled to read this new take on Superboy, plus I'm also reading TT so I won't feel like I have to read Teen Titans to get the full picture.

He may not be Azzarello or Snyder. But I'm sure he will make Superman relevant again. If anyone were to do that its him. Also it doesn't mean Azzarello and Snyder wrote a good Batman and WW, they'll automatically write a good Superman.

Azzarello had a run called Man of Tomorrow and critics were only lukewarm about it. Snyder did Project Superman in Flashpoint and it wasn't very well received either.

#30 Edited by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Give the guy a chance. Superman was one title that got me so bored I always left it the last to read. But I continued buying it because I thought it would get better and character loyalty. But for 11 issues it didn't. If anything this would only be an upgrade.

#31 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

He may not be Azzarello or Snyder. But I'm sure he will make Superman relevant again. If anyone were to do that its him. Also it doesn't mean Azzarello and Snyder wrote a good Batman and WW, they'll automatically write a good Superman.

Azzarello had a run called Man of Tomorrow and critics were only lukewarm about it. Snyder did Project Superman in Flashpoint and it wasn't very well received either.

I never said that Snyder or Azzarello would write a fantastic Superman, I stated that they understand the character they write currently and knowing that, they make the series fantastic and critically praised every single week. Lobdell has never received that level of praise for Superboy, nor Teen Titans and I fail to see how he'd do better with Superman. I don't want a decent adaptation of Superman, I want a fantastic one and I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone when I say that especially considering what's happened to the character with Morrison leaving Action Comics and both Perez and Jurgens failing to make the namesake series decent at all.

@sethysquare said:

@Deranged Midget: Give the guy a chance. Superman was one title that got me so bored I always left it the last to read. But I continued buying it because I thought it would get better and character loyalty. But for 11 issues it didn't. If anything this would only be an upgrade.

As did any Superman fan. Every single week hoping for the series to get better but constantly being disappointed. I fail to see how it'd be an upgrade considering Lobdell's less than appreciative work on both Teen Titans and Superboy. Obviously, I'll pick up the book in hopes for something fresh and invigorating but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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#32 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: You never know if its going to be fantastic or not. But from his interviews and what Scott has been saying about his take, people are much more optimistic than they were before. Also, the fact that DC continue to let him stay on for the book and head lining the cross over shows that he is doing something right. His run on TT, RHATO and SB isn't less than appreciative by any means.

I for one have faith in his work and I know I'm going to enjoy every single page of Rocafort's art. BTW, Rocafort was poached to join Superman a long time ago. But he stayed on with the outlaws all the way because he wanted to work with Scott and didn't want to disappoint his fans. Its only when DC accepted Scott's pitch that Rocafort decided to go to Superman as well.

Scott has a good eye for his artist, every single one of the artist that he picked all churned out fantastic work. Rocafort and Booth never got so much attention pre flashpoint. Even Dan Didio and Jim Lee were saying how much they stepped up their game since the relaunch. Even his fill in artist for Superboy was one of the best I've seen drawings for Kon I've seen.

I know that with Scott I'm going to get new villains, updated villains and he is someone that can build a franchise around the book he is writing and thats what Superman needs. Thats what Scott has been delivering. He created so many new villains that would last for a long time, amongst the 3 books he has written, he revamped so many ideas from "Kon-el" to Ravagers and brought such an unexpected story to Red Hood and the outlaws.

The fact that DC gave Scott Superman just a few months before the launch of MOS shows how much faith they have in the idea that he has pitched.

#33 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: There's nothing wrong with being optimistic and hopeful that a writer might be able to reinvent a character, especially one so close to my heart but I just can't put my faith into Lobdell. I just read his interview with G-Man and I'll admit, I'm more willing to give him a chance given the idea's and stories he has planned for Kal in the upcoming months but honestly, it's just the work he's done with Superboy and Teen Titans has me worried.

Rocafort's art is indeed impressive and I'm glad they chose an artist with a more modern, fresh take on the Superman rather than the old classic look that Jurgens and Griffin brought to the past 11 issues of Superman. But as I mentioned before, the art does not compensate for the lack of good writing and all we can really do is wait until we get a preview of issue zero or 13 so I can put in full judgment.

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#34 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: He is also writing the Annual.

#35 Posted by Lvenger (20253 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Interview with G-Man? I'd better read that now.

#36 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

The fact that DC gave Scott Superman just a few months before the launch of MOS shows how much faith they have in the idea that he has pitched.

Hahahaha, DC's editorial staff actually planning ahead and coordinating with Warner for a maximum effect at a critical time? We're more likely to sent monkeys to Mars.

And I say this as someone who considers himself at worst mildly cynical.

#37 Posted by Lvenger (20253 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights: Well he has mucked up your favourite character judging by your avatar and background and I'm skeptical about what he'll do with my favourite character as well. So I'll fully share in your anger if he does anything wrong with Superman.

#38 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@PsychoKnights: Well he has mucked up your favourite character judging by your avatar and background and I'm skeptical about what he'll do with my favourite character as well. So I'll fully share in your anger if he does anything wrong with Superman.

Hence why I can't put my faith into the man. His track record isn't exactly decent.

@AtPhantom: Very true but no so cynical.

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#39 Posted by BatWatch (2762 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@PsychoKnights: Well he has mucked up your favourite character judging by your avatar and background and I'm skeptical about what he'll do with my favourite character as well. So I'll fully share in your anger if he does anything wrong with Superman.

Yeah, I'm not even sure if my character counts as my character anymore. The rest of the central members of the Bat Clan ended up largely untouched, but apparently Tim has always been Red Robin and he was an Olympic athlete before he partnered with Batman. All of his character development with Young Justice and Teen Titans are out the window. He acted like a major dick in Teen Titans 10. I haven't even read the official origin story in Teen Titans 0 because I fear how bad it will be. The tidbits I've already heard are bad enough. I honestly don't know if I will even continue to follow him.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Lvenger said:

@PsychoKnights: Well he has mucked up your favourite character judging by your avatar and background and I'm skeptical about what he'll do with my favourite character as well. So I'll fully share in your anger if he does anything wrong with Superman.

Hence why I can't put my faith into the man. His track record isn't exactly decent.

@AtPhantom: Very true but no so cynical.

I'm canceling my subscription to Teen Titans. I'll probably still buy it from second hand stores, but I refuse to support his writing as long as he is screwing up my character.

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#40 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@sethysquare said:

The fact that DC gave Scott Superman just a few months before the launch of MOS shows how much faith they have in the idea that he has pitched.

Hahahaha, DC's editorial staff actually planning ahead and coordinating with Warner for a maximum effect at a critical time? We're more likely to sent monkeys to Mars.

And I say this as someone who considers himself at worst mildly cynical.

I have no idea what you're saying. DC editorial staff have been coordinating with Warner. Thats what Perez said, which is why there are many factors to consider when rewriting Superman's backstory.

Also, what I meant was if Scott is staying on Superman, it means that he will be the writer that is writing Superman while MOS is airing. Just like how JMS was always remembered for his run on Spiderman because he was writing it while Spiderman trilogy was on. So theres extra pressure.

#41 Edited by Lvenger (20253 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights: Tim was an athlete? That's a worrying change. Another bad thing about Tim in the New 52 is that in Night of the Owls, he was hardly used. Jason Todd and Damian were more involved in the story than Tim was. Heck the Birds of Prey played a more vital role than Tim did. But that's not the gravest error. If I remember right, Lobdell said that Tim never became Robin, he went straight into being Red Robin. One, that gets rid of a whole bunch of stories and character development. Secondly Mr Lobdell how do you explain this scan? That doesn't look like a Red Robin costume to me.

#42 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@AtPhantom said:

@sethysquare said:

The fact that DC gave Scott Superman just a few months before the launch of MOS shows how much faith they have in the idea that he has pitched.

Hahahaha, DC's editorial staff actually planning ahead and coordinating with Warner for a maximum effect at a critical time? We're more likely to sent monkeys to Mars.

And I say this as someone who considers himself at worst mildly cynical.

I have no idea what you're saying. DC editorial staff have been coordinating with Warner. Thats what Perez said, which is why there are many factors to consider when rewriting Superman's backstory.

Also, what I meant was if Scott is staying on Superman, it means that he will be the writer that is writing Superman while MOS is airing. Just like how JMS was always remembered for his run on Spiderman because he was writing it while Spiderman trilogy was on. So theres extra pressure.

Not to constantly throw in degrading comments, but Johns was writing superb work Green Lantern when the film released and he even co-wrote for the film and it failed to meet any expectations.

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#43 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@PsychoKnights: Tim was an athlete? That's a worrying change. Another bad thing about Tim in the New 52 is that in Night of the Owls, he was hardly used. Jason Todd and Damian were more involved in the story than Tim was. Heck the Birds of Prey played a more vital role than Tim did. But that's not the gravest error. If I remember right, Lobdell said that Tim never became Robin, he went straight into being Red Robin. One, that gets rid of a whole bunch of stories and character development. Secondly Mr Lobdell how do you explain this scan? That doesn't look like a Red Robin costume to me.

Lower right image of the scan shows Tim as Robin.

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#44 Posted by Lvenger (20253 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Should have pointed that out. Thanks for doing that.

#45 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@sethysquare said:

@AtPhantom said:

@sethysquare said:

The fact that DC gave Scott Superman just a few months before the launch of MOS shows how much faith they have in the idea that he has pitched.

Hahahaha, DC's editorial staff actually planning ahead and coordinating with Warner for a maximum effect at a critical time? We're more likely to sent monkeys to Mars.

And I say this as someone who considers himself at worst mildly cynical.

I have no idea what you're saying. DC editorial staff have been coordinating with Warner. Thats what Perez said, which is why there are many factors to consider when rewriting Superman's backstory.

Also, what I meant was if Scott is staying on Superman, it means that he will be the writer that is writing Superman while MOS is airing. Just like how JMS was always remembered for his run on Spiderman because he was writing it while Spiderman trilogy was on. So theres extra pressure.

Not to constantly throw in degrading comments, but Johns was writing superb work Green Lantern when the film released and he even co-wrote for the film and it failed to meet any expectations.

I don't see how that has got to do with what I'm saying. LOL.

Johns was writing superb work on Green Lantern when the film released. Those millions of people that watched Green Lantern might bring new or lapsed readers back to reading GL and they'll be picking up Johns' run. Which means it needs to be of top quality or at least have mass appeal because these comics would be picked up by people who wouldn't usually read them.

I'm not saying that Scott is going to start writing the film or that its going to influence the movie.

#46 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Lvenger said:

@PsychoKnights: Tim was an athlete? That's a worrying change. Another bad thing about Tim in the New 52 is that in Night of the Owls, he was hardly used. Jason Todd and Damian were more involved in the story than Tim was. Heck the Birds of Prey played a more vital role than Tim did. But that's not the gravest error. If I remember right, Lobdell said that Tim never became Robin, he went straight into being Red Robin. One, that gets rid of a whole bunch of stories and character development. Secondly Mr Lobdell how do you explain this scan? That doesn't look like a Red Robin costume to me.

Lower right image of the scan shows Tim as Robin.

Or it could the outfit for Red Robin before he upgraded his red robin outfit to include gliding capabilities. Its a matter of adding Red to the front of the name.

#47 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: it goes exactly with what you're saying because you mentioned how DC and Warner love to co-opt their projects and evidently, it didn't work so well with Green Lantern.

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#48 Posted by Lvenger (20253 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Lvenger said:

@PsychoKnights: Tim was an athlete? That's a worrying change. Another bad thing about Tim in the New 52 is that in Night of the Owls, he was hardly used. Jason Todd and Damian were more involved in the story than Tim was. Heck the Birds of Prey played a more vital role than Tim did. But that's not the gravest error. If I remember right, Lobdell said that Tim never became Robin, he went straight into being Red Robin. One, that gets rid of a whole bunch of stories and character development. Secondly Mr Lobdell how do you explain this scan? That doesn't look like a Red Robin costume to me.

Lower right image of the scan shows Tim as Robin.

Or it could the outfit for Red Robin before he upgraded his red robin outfit to include gliding capabilities. Its a matter of adding Red to the front of the name.

That would be a good answer. But why is the outfit nearly identical to Jason Todd's Robin outfit? I haven't seen Dick's Robin costume yet but in any case it doesn't make sense why Tim would be called Red Robin yet dress like an ordinary Robin.

#49 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: No it doesn't go with what I'm saying. LOL. Read my posts again.

Geoff Johns was actively involved in producing Green Lantern. Thats a whole different story and has got nothing to do with his writings in Green Lantern. The movie didn't do well not because they "co-opt".

Often, the movies takes inspiration from comics. But because movies makes millions so any changes shown in the movie would often be reflected in the comics. Which is why Spiderman got retconned a little because of the movie.

Same thing here, the movie is influenced by the comics, but they made certain changes. So DC needs to be accountable to WB to make sure that they can't completely revamped Superman to be blonde and turned into a mutant. They need to coincide with the script for MOS, that they can't be too far apart from each other. Same goes to Batman and Avengers.

Batman was easier because he didn't reboot, but several elements like Talia Al Ghul and Bane appeared within the year. Talia was written more of a villain than an anti hero like the movie.

Spiderman also started writing that killer croc look-a-like guy right before the movie came out.

#50 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

I have no idea what you're saying. DC editorial staff have been coordinating with Warner. Thats what Perez said, which is why there are many factors to consider when rewriting Superman's backstory.

Also, what I meant was if Scott is staying on Superman, it means that he will be the writer that is writing Superman while MOS is airing. Just like how JMS was always remembered for his run on Spiderman because he was writing it while Spiderman trilogy was on. So theres extra pressure.

Coordinating? Sure. Actually achieving good results through that coordination? Lolno. DC's editorial staff wouldn't know a good idea if it came up to them in a monster truck and did donuts on their faces. They're incompetent in that regard.

What I'm saying, I guess, is that it doesn't matter if he'll be writing during MoS or not, because even if DC had enough foresight to consider that, the odds that they actually made a right decision about it are close to zero.

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