superman and martian manhunter

#1 Posted by papabearg4d (110 posts) - - Show Bio

We saw Martian being pitted against Superman on the New 52 JLA series. I have heard this quite sometime (pre-new 52) where Martian is the one who can beat Superman. I don't know much about Martian's full potential and Superman's full potential. I know Martian is weak against fire and Superman against kryptonite and magic. How would Martian beat Superman, or how would Superman beat Martian. Is Martian really the one who can beat Superman?

I am NOT asking this to start a flame war or to start a fanboy war, I am just asking as it would be better to get answers/opinions from people who knows these 2 characters than just looking it up on Google.

#2 Posted by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

I never really understood DC's fascination with having someone who can take down Superman in case he ever went insane... Not only is he the least likely to go insane, but it wouldn't be that hard to take down Superman if he ever did. There are multiple members of the JLA who could probably beat him or stalemate him, not to mention just combining them would be a sure victory against him.

On the other hand, I can't seem to grasp my head around the point of Martian Manhunter. It's like he's their back up plan? But what happens if he went insane? He's supposed to be completely unstoppable by any other JLA member... and now I'm hearing from other people he could easily defeat them all at once if he wanted to? How is that not ridiculous? He's literally everything everyone hates about Superman times ten.... and there are other things besides power.

Sorry for rambling, but yeah, Martian would beat Superman, unfortunately. He could beat anyone on the Justice League without hardly trying apparently, I don't even think I'm exaggerating that. He has telepathy he could use to mentally subdue him, he has intangibility so Superman could never hit him, etc. Superman is above him ever so slightly in strength and speed, but it doesn't really matter in the end.

#3 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12495 posts) - - Show Bio

@papabearg4d said:

We saw Martian being pitted against Superman on the New 52 JLA series. I have heard this quite sometime (pre-new 52) where Martian is the one who can beat Superman. I don't know much about Martian's full potential and Superman's full potential. I know Martian is weak against fire and Superman against kryptonite and magic. How would Martian beat Superman, or how would Superman beat Martian. Is Martian really the one who can beat Superman?

I am NOT asking this to start a flame war or to start a fanboy war, I am just asking as it would be better to get answers/opinions from people who knows these 2 characters than just looking it up on Google.

i think MM's vulnerability to fire was removed in the New 2 in exchange for something more psychological. at lest thats what was hinted at in certain interviews.

But yeah, MM could beat Clark if he had too.

#4 Posted by Z3RO180 (6294 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait supes has already fought MM in JLA ?

#5 Posted by stephens2177 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

superman can lift and destroy a world with just his raw power,and comparing raw power he is well over MM's level,jonn has powwrs that make him almost impossible to fight and overwhelm.

this all depends if superman has mental defenses he can use against MMs TP,or if his mind is to advanced to effect to the extent that he was helpless to it.also if his senses can detect a invisible MM,or if heat vision can effect MMs mental state even if he is intangible.

#6 Posted by JV (54 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: I did not read the issue, but I heard that MM took down the whole JL.

Secondly, I think you bring up a good point. Back in Action Comics#12, (I believe) Superman was able to overcome "The First Superman's" telepathic powers b/c of his superior mind. I do not know if that would come into play with MM, but I do think DC could use that in a battle.

#7 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

This is something I'm interested in. I hear many MM boast, can't really say I have much knowledge of the character. I'd like to see some Martian Manhunter scans of feats that prove his ability to defeat Superman. Secondly Shazam/Captain Marvel is supposed to be the answer when Superman goes rogue. MM was defeated by this character (see below), I don't see him defeating Superman.If MM is so bad a**, with his powerset how could he let this happen:

#8 Posted by Skunkstein (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

This is something I'm interested in. I hear many MM boast, can't really say I have much knowledge of the character. I'd like to see some Martian Manhunter scans of feats that prove his ability to defeat Superman. Secondly Shazam/Captain Marvel is supposed to be the answer when Superman goes rogue. MM was defeated by this character (see below), I don't see him defeating Superman.If MM is so bad a**, with his powerset how could he let this happen:

I have no scans, and i know close to zero about him in the New 52... but before that, he was basicly Supermans physically equal plus he had a million other powers, like being one of earths most powerful telepaths and yadayadayada.... MM is stupidly OP, a quick visit to his wiki page will tell ya that. Besides pre new 52, he didnt have his weakness to fire anymore, as far as i remember he removed it himself with meditation or something like that.

Now the scan you posted looks like his New 52 gear, so i guess the weakness is back?

#9 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

THIS is where it came from that he beat the Justice League in the new 52 (and you can see Batman's narration in the top left, "It ended very badly"). I'd take it with a grain of salt though, One frame that was likely more about the awesome art & just to signify that it didn't go well trying to let MM in the JL. "On paper" is always different from how things turn out. Many heroes have "Superman level" strength & durability, yet he always prevails - either due to :plot/story (he IS Superman after-all), the "he's almost always holding back" reasoning (so the other are on his level when he's not 100%), or due to his immense willpower.

#10 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skunkstein said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

This is something I'm interested in. I hear many MM boast, can't really say I have much knowledge of the character. I'd like to see some Martian Manhunter scans of feats that prove his ability to defeat Superman. Secondly Shazam/Captain Marvel is supposed to be the answer when Superman goes rogue. MM was defeated by this character (see below), I don't see him defeating Superman.If MM is so bad a**, with his powerset how could he let this happen:

I have no scans, and i know close to zero about him in the New 52... but before that, he was basicly Supermans physically equal plus he had a million other powers, like being one of earths most powerful telepaths and yadayadayada.... MM is stupidly OP, a quick visit to his wiki page will tell ya that. Besides pre new 52, he didnt have his weakness to fire anymore, as far as i remember he removed it himself with meditation or something like that.

Now the scan you posted looks like his New 52 gear, so i guess the weakness is back?

This scan is old ! Final crisis!

#11 Posted by Skunkstein (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

@Skunkstein said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

This is something I'm interested in. I hear many MM boast, can't really say I have much knowledge of the character. I'd like to see some Martian Manhunter scans of feats that prove his ability to defeat Superman. Secondly Shazam/Captain Marvel is supposed to be the answer when Superman goes rogue. MM was defeated by this character (see below), I don't see him defeating Superman.If MM is so bad a**, with his powerset how could he let this happen:

I have no scans, and i know close to zero about him in the New 52... but before that, he was basicly Supermans physically equal plus he had a million other powers, like being one of earths most powerful telepaths and yadayadayada.... MM is stupidly OP, a quick visit to his wiki page will tell ya that. Besides pre new 52, he didnt have his weakness to fire anymore, as far as i remember he removed it himself with meditation or something like that.

Now the scan you posted looks like his New 52 gear, so i guess the weakness is back?

This scan is old ! Final crisis!

I will pull back that statement then, lol.

#12 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't his "got rid of fire weakness through mediation or other mental juju" thing in JLA (aka Justice League v3) though? aka, before final crisis. Didn't that cause him to become Infernus or w/e, and the weakness came back........somehow (all pre-52 that is, IDK about new52, I've only read a few issues of Stormwatch).

#13 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skunkstein: I dunno, that's up to you, I just wanna see the feats that make people say he's equal to or stronger than Superman.

#14 Posted by papabearg4d (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@GunGunW: Exactly, I've always thought others can stalemate him or even beat him, not just Martian. Who do you think Martian cannot beat in the DC Universe?

@Skunkstein: If he can remove his weakness, then that is too much power... assuming you remembered correctly, then I could assume he could use it to put a weakness to others no?

@evilvegeta74: I've always thought Shazam is the answer to Superman, but I see many people going for Martian.

#15 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

@papabearg4d: I just want proof of the MM feats, anyone have scans.

#16 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats --> http://www.comicvine.com/martian-manhunter/29-2047/martian-manhunter-respect-thread/92-704652/#55

#17 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks

#18 Posted by papabearg4d (110 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: That is an absolutely great thread. That answers my question. Martian is too damn strong eh.

#19 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

@papabearg4d: Yup, that's why he's the biggest jobber in DC - it's hard to effectively write him, especially when he was normally on a team already full of power houses.

#20 Posted by stephens2177 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

he shouldnt be a jobber,he should just have a good explanation for his powers,and decent limits.powerwise,just say he controls his entire body mentally,call it self TK,that would explain his power flucuations,his weakness,why he has martian vision,and flight,and throw in telepathy,as a way to push his mind away from his body.

superman is more powerful,but MM has more weapons,whifh makes hik so versatile so that he can fight a being who is more powerful than him.

#21 Posted by lightsout (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177: I like that, that since martians are basically TKing their biological structure & altering it, that they'd have to be at their mental tip-top to be at their strongest/toughest/fastest.

#22 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter has more powers and should easily beat Superman.

#23 Posted by stephens2177 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout said:

@stephens2177: I like that, that since martians are basically TKing their biological structure & altering it, that they'd have to be at their mental tip-top to be at their strongest/toughest/fastest.

i wish DC would make this how it worked,it would explain his powers easily.

#24 Posted by stephens2177 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcells said:

Martian Manhunter has more powers and should easily beat Superman.

more powers dont equal a easy win,the hulk has very few powers,but he tears ppl with multiple powers apart all the time.

#25 Posted by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter has many powers and should also easily beat the Hulk.

#26 Edited by lantian1 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter was taken out by one of Helspont's retainer's in the Superman Annual. By fire if I remember right

Is there anything to show Manhunter can equal Superman's bench pressing the Earth or the speed Superman has recently shown.

#27 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12495 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

This is something I'm interested in. I hear many MM boast, can't really say I have much knowledge of the character. I'd like to see some Martian Manhunter scans of feats that prove his ability to defeat Superman. Secondly Shazam/Captain Marvel is supposed to be the answer when Superman goes rogue. MM was defeated by this character (see below), I don't see him defeating Superman.If MM is so bad a**, with his powerset how could he let this happen:

Grant Morrison effed up. MM wasnt even supposed to be vulnerable to fire at this point

#28 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12495 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177 said:

@colonyofcells said:

Martian Manhunter has more powers and should easily beat Superman.

more powers dont equal a easy win,the hulk has very few powers,but he tears ppl with multiple powers apart all the time.

MM its more than a larger variety. He's also older, more skilled and has better honed these powers.

#29 Posted by stephens2177 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonyofcellsthe hulks mind is nowhere jonn would want to try to navigate,and MM isnt physically able to withstand hulks insane raw raged out power.:

@lantian1: MM had showed he still has all his old powers,but not any new feats,beyond telepathic ones.

@Avenging-X-Bolt jonnneeds weaknesses,all great characters need them

@Avenging-X-Bolt: this i agree in with,MM has been around a lot longer,and has spent the whole time living his powers,yeah live his powers,not just have them,so this is a huge plus for him.

#30 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12495 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177 said:

@colonyofcellsthe hulks mind is nowhere jonn would want to try to navigate,and MM isnt physically able to withstand hulks insane raw raged out power.:

@lantian1: MM had showed he still has all his old powers,but not any new feats,beyond telepathic ones.

@Avenging-X-Bolt jonnneeds weaknesses,all great characters need them

@Avenging-X-Bolt: this i agree in with,MM has been around a lot longer,and has spent the whole time living his powers,yeah live his powers,not just have them,so this is a huge plus for him.

i never said J'onn doesnt need a weakness.......

#31 Posted by Z3RO180 (6294 posts) - - Show Bio

MM can not easily defeat superman. Also like a viner said earlier SHAZAMEY is the guy to call if supes needs dealing with

#32 Posted by stephens2177 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

superman is raw "unlimited"power,shazam is just raw power,and MM is very powerful,and has more abilities than anybody.superman has physical senses,shazam has magic senses,and jonn has mental senses.superman is more powerful than the others,but shazam has magic,supermans weakness,and MM has telepathy and slippery powers.

#33 Posted by TrueMarvel (194 posts) - - Show Bio

@stephens2177:

It isn't clear whether or not hes stronger. Per-52 Jon was known for being just as strong if not stronger than superman. Shazaam is repeatedly proclaimed supermans physical equal even by superman himself. Superman is not clearly stronger than either Jon or Marvel. Just saying.

#34 Posted by lantian1 (151 posts) - - Show Bio

What about in the Nu52 has Jonn displayed strength equal to Superman at all?

Lifting the Earth for five days

#35 Posted by stephens2177 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

@TrueMarvel : true,and im sure they wont make it clear either,but so far they dont look like equals.

@lantian1: not yet,MM has been in the background,when others like Apollo do the huge power feats.

#36 Posted by kgb725 (5798 posts) - - Show Bio

mm is only weak to magical fire or something like that

#37 Posted by Mighty Thorion (797 posts) - - Show Bio

@papabearg4d said:

We saw Martian being pitted against Superman on the New 52 JLA series. I have heard this quite sometime (pre-new 52) where Martian is the one who can beat Superman. I don't know much about Martian's full potential and Superman's full potential. I know Martian is weak against fire and Superman against kryptonite and magic. How would Martian beat Superman, or how would Superman beat Martian. Is Martian really the one who can beat Superman?

I am NOT asking this to start a flame war or to start a fanboy war, I am just asking as it would be better to get answers/opinions from people who knows these 2 characters than just looking it up on Google.

A fight between these two heroes would be too close to call - a tie maybe - either one might somehow just have the edge over the other - maybe Superman could start a fire with his heat vision to weaken MM - but on the other hand maybe MM could get inside Supes' head or confuse Superman with his teleportation / invisibility powers

#38 Posted by marvel123 (369 posts) - - Show Bio

an out of control superman (one that wouldn't hold back)......is essentially gonna be comparable to superman prime

#39 Posted by Bogey (934 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

This is something I'm interested in. I hear many MM boast, can't really say I have much knowledge of the character. I'd like to see some Martian Manhunter scans of feats that prove his ability to defeat Superman. Secondly Shazam/Captain Marvel is supposed to be the answer when Superman goes rogue. MM was defeated by this character (see below), I don't see him defeating Superman.If MM is so bad a**, with his powerset how could he let this happen:

Before that event took place, Martian Manhunter was captured in a series called Salvation Run. Martian Manhunter only lost due to the fact that he was sent there to protect them if the world turned out to be disastrous. He held back against 25+ or more and was captured, which led to his death in Final Crisis.

#40 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12495 posts) - - Show Bio

@lantian1 said:

What about in the Nu52 has Jonn displayed strength equal to Superman at all?

Lifting the Earth for five days

no, but apparently, he fought the entire main JL to a stand still

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