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    Superman

    Character » Superman appears in 18885 issues.

    Sent to Earth as an infant from the dying planet Krypton, Kal-El was adopted by the loving Kent family and raised in America's heartland as Clark Kent. Using his immense solar-fueled powers, he became Superman to defend mankind against all manner of threats while championing truth, justice, and the American way!

    Should Superman Get A Catwoman/Black Cat-esque female ally?

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    OrangeBat

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    Just something that popped into my head the other day. Would be quite interesting, no? I suppose you COULD argue in favor of Queen Maxima fulfilling that role, but it's not like Superman and Maxima ever went out on team-up adventures by themselves. For the most part, when she wasn't trying to force him into marriage, Maxima seemed oddly disinterested in the Man of Steel. I can't really think of anyone else that ever fulfilled that kind of role for Superman.

    Oh, and Wonder Woman doesn't really count. She's her own, separate superheroine, independent from Superman in many ways.

    So what say you, fellow Superman fans? Could make for an interesting dynamic, IMO.

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    deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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    Squalleon

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    Livewire could fill that role.

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    Night4345

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    #4  Edited By Night4345

    It really doesn't work for Superman.

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    johnqestion

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    So should Superman follow Batman? No.

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    darkman61288

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    Lois?

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    w0nd

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    He has his dumbass ill tempered cousin.

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    Jimishim12

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    #8  Edited By Jimishim12
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    OrangeBat

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    @justthatkid: Uh, no. Catwoman is not separate from Batman. She is part of his universe, she came from there, and most of the time her stories concern Gotham. She is not her own separate entity from Batman as Wonder Woman is from Superman.

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    Bsaa

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    @w0nd: watch your mouth bout mah waifu!

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    reactor

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    #13  Edited By reactor
    Why a Catwoman-esque when he can have the real thing?
    Why a Catwoman-esque when he can have the real thing?

    In all seriousness though, it's not quite his style. I can see him having a Talia al-Ghul type in the from of Faora (her popularity seriously spiked after MoS), but I don't think he has a "catwoman" support feel.

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    Jphu8414

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    Kind of like an anti-hero like female character? I suppose...

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    OrangeBat

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    @orangebat: Catwoman has her own title, different origin, seperate motivations, different gadgets, and a whole different attire rather then being Batwoman or whatever she has her own emblem in a sort of way..

    Their are things that are highly similar between Clark and Diana in the same way for Bruce and Selina.

    Why would Superman need a Catwoman type character in his mythos? That's completely pointless an would serve to nothing... It would just make them come off as tryin to Batman him.

    Yes, Catwoman has her own title. So do Batgirl and Nightwing. Doesn't change the fact that she's still heavily a part of Batman's world, and is connected to him in a way that Wonder Woman is not connected to Superman.

    You cannot have Catwoman without establishing Batman and his world first. You can easily have Wonder Woman without establishing Superman or his world, since she is a completely separate superheroine.

    Arguing about gadgetry and her outfit and namesake (she's a Cat! Batman is a Bat!) is merely arguing about superficial things.

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    Pperspectiveandreality

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    Her name is maxima

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    Teerack

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    #17  Edited By Teerack

    It would be pretty cool if Faora-Ul became kind of a neutral character like Black Cat and Catwoman.

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    Superguy1591

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    @pperspectiveandreality: This.

    It's so boring that he's stuck with no dynamic Lois, she brings nothing to the story except a damsel for Supes to save. It's the same story, Lois does something stupid, Superman rushes in to save her, rinse and repeat.

    And he's seconds away from going back to Lois in the N52, looks like the adventure is over for young Kal. He's pretty much the PC Superman now. They restarted the whole universe just to get us back to the same character.

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    stephens2177

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    Got it-his non daughter Cir-El. She would be perfect to hero around with,learn the family craft,teach her with her powers(which would be golden age levels for all,but for her red sun burst ability).

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    2cool4fun

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    DwightSpitz

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    #22  Edited By DwightSpitz

    He already does

    No Caption Provided

    U mad WW fans?

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    stephens2177

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    Cir-El is a better choice

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    ScouterV

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    @justthatkid said:

    @orangebat: Catwoman has her own title, different origin, seperate motivations, different gadgets, and a whole different attire rather then being Batwoman or whatever she has her own emblem in a sort of way..

    Their are things that are highly similar between Clark and Diana in the same way for Bruce and Selina.

    Why would Superman need a Catwoman type character in his mythos? That's completely pointless an would serve to nothing... It would just make them come off as tryin to Batman him.

    Yes, Catwoman has her own title. So do Batgirl and Nightwing. Doesn't change the fact that she's still heavily a part of Batman's world, and is connected to him in a way that Wonder Woman is not connected to Superman.

    You cannot have Catwoman without establishing Batman and his world first. You can easily have Wonder Woman without establishing Superman or his world, since she is a completely separate superheroine.

    Arguing about gadgetry and her outfit and namesake (she's a Cat! Batman is a Bat!) is merely arguing about superficial things.

    Why can't you have Catwoman without Batman? I think Catwoman would work just as well if she'd been connected with Green Arrow instead. Hell, she's almost like a Robin-hood type character herself in that she steals from the rich. They're connected deeply, but I could easily see Catwoman relocating to Star City/Seattle or even Metropolis (but I don't think Superman would simply fall for her charms the way Batman might.)

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    ScouterV

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    I think a Super-powered alter-ego for Lois Lane or maybe Lana Lang coming back would be an interesting storyline, (especially Lane, but it would really shake things up for Lois.) They do something like that on Earth-2 with Lois, so why not? I suppose there is some tech that would allow her to mimic powers of Superman (albeit weaker,) and with her newfound power she starts acting on her base desires because now she feels nobody can stop her from taking them.

    Though she would start out a villain, she could easily become a hero with the influence of Superman/Clark.

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    Superguy1591

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    @scouterv: That is...the LAST thing I want to see. Face it, Superman's romance is about as interesting as watching paint dry because writers can't have fun with him in a romance.

    Having Lois around him...ALL THE TIME? That's 100 times worst. He needs an interesting woman in his life that has an edge to combat his lack of edge.

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    ScouterV

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    @superguy1591: Honestly, I'm too cynical to care about romance as is. Lois and Superman has about as much edge as Batman and Catwoman or whatever Bond girl has the hots for him. It's all the same to me.

    Anywho, I commented another thing but it got dropped for coming in too fast. Basically, Super-powered Lois is acts on her base desires because she feels she now has the power to take what she wants, whether it be money or Superman. Lois Lane is actually a perfect cover identity if she gains something like blonde hair when shes' out being super.

    Personally, I think Superman is fine as he is. Everyone says everyone needs to have "edge," but isn't that what Batman is for? If every character was edgy, then nobody would be.

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    deactivated-5a162dd41dd64

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    primebonnick

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    maxima but supes ain't like that sadly.

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    Superguy1591

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    @scouterv: His love life just isn't interesting because you can't do much with him, if he has an engaging romantic relationship, people will say they're trying to make Superman "edgy".

    And giving Lois Lane superpowers is the absolute worst idea because she's still going to be stupid and Superman is still going to have save her, but if she's always there, we'll never get a break from it.

    Personally, the last thing I want to read about is Superman's love life. It's boring, writers pander too much.

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    OrangeBat

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    @justthatkid said:

    @orangebat: The difference between Catwoman, Nightwing, and Batgirl is that Nightwing and Batgirl are under Batman or he's a necessity to their origin. You can believe that their needs to be Batman for their to be Catwoman but that's completely untrue the Catwoman makes a example of this.

    Batman is also a necessity to Catwoman's origin. He inspires the rise of the costumed vigilantes/freaks in Gotham, and she is one of them. And if you're referring to the Catwoman film, it is an atrocity, and has next to nothing to do with the actual Catwoman. Catwoman the comic-book is equally atrocious. Catwoman as a straight-up anti-hero simply doesn't work. So, yes, it is completely true. Saying it isn't, doesn't make it so.

    He already does

    No Caption Provided

    U mad WW fans?

    As I mentioned before, Wonder Woman does not count. She is separate from Superman, she is not his lap-dog.

    @scouterv said:

    @orangebat said:
    @justthatkid said:

    @orangebat: Catwoman has her own title, different origin, seperate motivations, different gadgets, and a whole different attire rather then being Batwoman or whatever she has her own emblem in a sort of way..

    Their are things that are highly similar between Clark and Diana in the same way for Bruce and Selina.

    Why would Superman need a Catwoman type character in his mythos? That's completely pointless an would serve to nothing... It would just make them come off as tryin to Batman him.

    Yes, Catwoman has her own title. So do Batgirl and Nightwing. Doesn't change the fact that she's still heavily a part of Batman's world, and is connected to him in a way that Wonder Woman is not connected to Superman.

    You cannot have Catwoman without establishing Batman and his world first. You can easily have Wonder Woman without establishing Superman or his world, since she is a completely separate superheroine.

    Arguing about gadgetry and her outfit and namesake (she's a Cat! Batman is a Bat!) is merely arguing about superficial things.

    Why can't you have Catwoman without Batman? I think Catwoman would work just as well if she'd been connected with Green Arrow instead. Hell, she's almost like a Robin-hood type character herself in that she steals from the rich. They're connected deeply, but I could easily see Catwoman relocating to Star City/Seattle or even Metropolis (but I don't think Superman would simply fall for her charms the way Batman might.)

    Because Catwoman was created in BATMAN'S WORLD AND IS A PART OF IT. Saying Catwoman would work just as well if she is connected with Green Arrow is retarded. It's like saying Bette Brant would work just as well as Bruce Wayne's secretary. She has an established history and origins in Batman's world, she is a strong part of it. And Catwoman IS NOT supposed to be a Robin Hood-type character, except when she is being written atrociously. Like right now.

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    ScouterV

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    @orangebat: That's silly. It's not like these characters are bound by any law that says they have to stay in Batmans' "world." (What does that even mean. His "world?" You mean Gotham?

    I think Selina is a capable character on her own. In the New 52, you could argue Superman is just as responsible for the rise of costumed characters like Selina as Batman. I have to say it's pretty hard headed to assume that just because a character is created for one thing they can't be something else.

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    SanoHibiki

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    Interesting question indeed. Saying Catwoman/Black Cat-esque heroine, are we talking about potential love interest between said heroine and Superman?

    Superman strikes me as a monogamy guy; if at the same time he has girlfriend (Diana, Lois, Lana or someone else), then it would really one-sided.

    If we’re talking about Maxima, then New-52 gives a perfect opportunity to rework her character. Oh, I liked this wild firecracker, but her motivations always were handed strangely. To get a … load from comparative man to create genetically strong progeny – that’s a bit off. DC could make her this time actually interested in Superman as a person he is and not so obsessed with him after their first encounter (she is Queen of Almerac; her life isn’t centered around one man, after all). She can be easily written in team-up stories with Superman when he’s having space adventures.

    If without potential LI, then on Earth we can rewrite Livewire a bit. Not long before New-52 she was shown as actually not bad person, it’s just her powers affect her mind state. She could written as troublemaking sultry flirting (just for the sake of it, without actual feelings) villain/anti-hero who’s not mind to help Superman save the day occasionally.

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    DwightSpitz

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    #34  Edited By DwightSpitz

    @orangebat: It was a joke. But she kind off is his lap-dog to be honest lol...

    I guess you are aiming for like romantic relationship right? Otherwise Power Girl kinda fills in the lap-dog role but yeah that's his cousin so F no.

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    DianaXKal

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    Superman doesn't need a sidekick.

    And neither Catwoman nor Black Cat are sidekicks. Yeah, they are in the same universe as their love interest, but that's about it.

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    OrangeBat

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    @justthatkid said:

    @orangebat: nothing about Catwoman bounds her to Batman. The film was just a example of that, which failed because of being terrible not because she wasn't connected to Batman...

    Aside from the fact that she originated in Batman's mythos, is a well-established antagonist/supporting character, with well-established relationships in Batman's world, and is pretty much universally known for being part of Batman's supporting cast.

    Let's be serious, no-one is going to look at Catwoman and think "Superman". Or "Green Arrow". Or "Aquaman". They think "Batman", because that's in whose mythos she resides. Catwoman is as connected to Batman as the Joker is. Wonder Woman was created separately from Superman, within the confines of her own world.

    Let's put it this way - if, tomorrow, DC were to announce that there would be no more shared universes, and each character would be confined to their specific world/mythos, where do you think is Catwoman going to stay? It sure as shit ain't Green Arrow's world.

    Also, the Catwoman movie had next to nothing to do with the actual Catwoman. It was a different character entirely. I don't care if they intended it to be the actual Catwoman, it wasn't. It's like having a Spider-Man movie where some random hobo stumbles upon a magical amulet that gives him spider-powers. That is not Spider-Man.

    @scouterv said:

    @orangebat: That's silly. It's not like these characters are bound by any law that says they have to stay in Batmans' "world." (What does that even mean. His "world?" You mean Gotham?

    I think Selina is a capable character on her own. In the New 52, you could argue Superman is just as responsible for the rise of costumed characters like Selina as Batman. I have to say it's pretty hard headed to assume that just because a character is created for one thing they can't be something else.

    Gotham, Gordon, Harvey Bullock, Nightwing, Robin, Poison Ivy...they are all associated with Batman. Which sort of was my original point, that Catwoman is associated with Batman in such a way that Wonder Woman is obviously not associated with Superman. Which should be obvious to anyone who is not being deliberately obtuse.

    As for whether they can't be something else...well when a character is so strongly established in one universe, it would be kind of jarring to see them appear constantly in another. Catwoman transferring to Green Arrow's mythos would look out of place about as much as Psylocke transferring to Spider-Man's. Probably more, since the DC Universe isn't as interconnected as the Marvel one.

    This stuff should be obvious. My original point, reiterated - the relationship of Catwoman's character to Batman is different from the relationship of Wonder Woman's character to Superman.

    For more, look to my response above to @justthatkid.

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    OrangeBat

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    #38  Edited By OrangeBat

    @dianaxkal said:

    Superman doesn't need a sidekick.

    And neither Catwoman nor Black Cat are sidekicks. Yeah, they are in the same universe as their love interest, but that's about it.

    Well, then, it's a good thing I didn't call either of them sidekicks, is it? Neither did I demand that Superman get a sidekick, but a "Catwoman/Black Cat-esque female ally". But apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

    Also, Black Cat may not technically be a "sidekick", but she does team-up/tag-along with Spider-Man frequently enough, and is a firmly established enough member of his supporting cast to actually qualify as one. Less so for Catwoman, but she is a well-established antagonist/supporting character for Batman. So, yeah, it's far more than just "being in the same universe as their love interest". Certainly not the same as Superman and Wonder Woman's current fling.

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    deactivated-5d3f071d30d9f

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    @orangebat: Ok why Superman needs a "Catwoman"? Plus Catwoman is strongest catwoman of DC compare to the others. Plus what next another Joker or Bane or Ra´s al Ghul?

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    OrangeBat

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    @vitalius said:

    @orangebat: Ok why Superman needs a "Catwoman"? Plus Catwoman is strongest catwoman of DC compare to the others. Plus what next another Joker or Bane or Ra´s al Ghul?

    Superman doesn't "need" a Catwoman, and I never said he did. I asked whether a female ally in a similar mould would be interesting. Not necessarily a thief, not even necessarily antagonistic, not even necessarily on the wrong side of the law. And what's with trying to draw false equivalence with the "next Joker or Bane or Ra's al Ghul" comment? I'm not asking for Superman to be turned into Batman, I'm asking a simple question. For the record, why does everyone immediately latch onto Catwoman? I'm referring to all female characters of that type, such as Black Cat, Diamondback, Madame Masque and so on.

    Also, your second sentence makes absolutely no effing sense.

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    deactivated-5d3f071d30d9f

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    @orangebat:

    I dislike Catwoman because her role (and her whore costume). Most writers dont seem to know which side she is from comic to comic. Sometimes she is villians, sometime she is neutral and sometimes she is glue to Batman. And i hate. My favorite Team with (hero and villian) was with Black Canary and Lady Shiva (and later Cheshire joins the party) both are rivals to each others but they put differences aside because both want to find who kill their sensei fast. My favorite family Team Arrow due to Dinah(+Chynthia), Roy (+Lian) and Connor and i hate when people make them as the new Batfamily like the others families. I dont think a neutal female fatale would work very well with Superman specially since most writers do his vision of world as Black and White (You are heroe or villian).

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    DianaXKal

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    @dianaxkal said:

    Superman doesn't need a sidekick.

    And neither Catwoman nor Black Cat are sidekicks. Yeah, they are in the same universe as their love interest, but that's about it.

    Well, then, it's a good thing I didn't call either of them sidekicks, is it? Neither did I demand that Superman get a sidekick, but a "Catwoman/Black Cat-esque female ally". But apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

    Also, Black Cat may not technically be a "sidekick", but she does team-up/tag-along with Spider-Man frequently enough, and is a firmly established enough member of his supporting cast to actually qualify as one. Less so for Catwoman, but she is a well-established antagonist/supporting character for Batman. So, yeah, it's far more than just "being in the same universe as their love interest". Certainly not the same as Superman and Wonder Woman's current fling.

    Okay, keep thinking their relationship is a fling, then. Also, you can get your point across without insulting someone.

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    primebonnick

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    ohh what about volcana from teh animated series she should be in comics would be nice to have her as supes catwoman/black cat esque character.

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    Joygirl

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    I'm always up for new female characters.

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    ScouterV

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    @orangebat: But we're not talking about Wonder Woman. She has nothing to do with my argument. You're talking about characters that are deeply entwined. You're right, it would look out of place. But that's how things seem often at the early stage. It takes time to develop chemistry, but it worked fine for The Titans for example. All from different mythos, but all coming together to collectively form their own mythos as a team.

    That said, I disagree. I think you're blowing things out of proportion. Catwoman joining Green Arrow would be akin more to...MVP joining the Young Avengers (bear with me, I realize MVP is long-since dead.) He may not be originally from the same mythos, but MVP is a young man with potential and ability similar to that of Captain America. MVP would have been a fine addition to The Young Avengers, and Catwoman could certainly stick in Green Arrows' if something called for it.

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    OrangeBat

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    @vitalius said:

    @orangebat:

    I dislike Catwoman because her role (and her whore costume). Most writers dont seem to know which side she is from comic to comic. Sometimes she is villians, sometime she is neutral and sometimes she is glue to Batman. And i hate. My favorite Team with (hero and villian) was with Black Canary and Lady Shiva (and later Cheshire joins the party) both are rivals to each others but they put differences aside because both want to find who kill their sensei fast. My favorite family Team Arrow due to Dinah(+Chynthia), Roy (+Lian) and Connor and i hate when people make them as the new Batfamily like the others families. I dont think a neutal female fatale would work very well with Superman specially since most writers do his vision of world as Black and White (You are heroe or villian).

    I'm...still not quite sure what your point is, but whatever, dude. Have a virtual cookie and sit down.

    @orangebat: People think of Wonder Woman as a female Superman..

    Being created as part of Batman mythos doesn't mean she can't stand away from them her ties can easily be disconnected.

    Being thought of as a female Superman doesn't really support your argument. It just means most people are ignorant. Most people also think Moon Knight is a knock-off Batman, but that's fairly obviously not true.

    I'd argue that her ties can't be "easily disconnected". Unless we are talking just plain bad writing.

    @orangebat said:

    @dianaxkal said:

    Superman doesn't need a sidekick.

    And neither Catwoman nor Black Cat are sidekicks. Yeah, they are in the same universe as their love interest, but that's about it.

    Well, then, it's a good thing I didn't call either of them sidekicks, is it? Neither did I demand that Superman get a sidekick, but a "Catwoman/Black Cat-esque female ally". But apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

    Also, Black Cat may not technically be a "sidekick", but she does team-up/tag-along with Spider-Man frequently enough, and is a firmly established enough member of his supporting cast to actually qualify as one. Less so for Catwoman, but she is a well-established antagonist/supporting character for Batman. So, yeah, it's far more than just "being in the same universe as their love interest". Certainly not the same as Superman and Wonder Woman's current fling.

    Okay, keep thinking their relationship is a fling, then. Also, you can get your point across without insulting someone.

    Hmm, yes, fling might have been the wrong word to use. After all, I don't think they've even had sex yet.

    As for the insult, well, I have to say it's difficult to resist when someone sets themselves up for it so spectacularly...

    @scouterv said:

    @orangebat: But we're not talking about Wonder Woman. She has nothing to do with my argument. You're talking about characters that are deeply entwined. You're right, it would look out of place. But that's how things seem often at the early stage. It takes time to develop chemistry, but it worked fine for The Titans for example. All from different mythos, but all coming together to collectively form their own mythos as a team.

    That said, I disagree. I think you're blowing things out of proportion. Catwoman joining Green Arrow would be akin more to...MVP joining the Young Avengers (bear with me, I realize MVP is long-since dead.) He may not be originally from the same mythos, but MVP is a young man with potential and ability similar to that of Captain America. MVP would have been a fine addition to The Young Avengers, and Catwoman could certainly stick in Green Arrows' if something called for it.

    My original point of contention was that Wonder Woman was not part of Superman's mythos in a way that Catwoman is part of Batman's. Granted, looking up, I wasn't actually arguing that with you, it was someone else, you were saying that Catwoman could work in Green Arrow's world just as well as in Batman's. I'm not going to bother rehashing the arguments, but suffice to say, I disagree. Catwoman would not fit in Green Arrow's world well, she wouldn't be Catwoman anymore. I also disagree with the MVP and Young Avengers comparison. Completely different. There is a major difference between a supporting characters being tossed from the mythos they originated in and are firmly established in to another one, and a superhero joining a superhero team. The "team" argument does not work, because Nightwing may have been part of a team (or many teams), but he is still Batman's first sidekick, his chosen heir. Similarly, Batman fighting alongside the Justice League doesn't affect everything else about his character, origin, personality, etc.

    ohh what about volcana from teh animated series she should be in comics would be nice to have her as supes catwoman/black cat esque character.

    Does Volcana even exist anymore? I know Livewire showed up in the New 52, but I don't think Volcana did.

    I'd be kinda iffy on it, though, since Superman tends to hang out on a more cosmic/godly power range that those two. Same reason they never made good antagonists for Superman without having him be severely powered down.

    @joygirl said:

    I'm always up for new female characters.

    Yeah, Superman could use more of those, too.

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    #49  Edited By amazing_webhead
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    Nah

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