Nrama: There are certainly some terrible images we see towards the end of that issue. Switching gears to Superman Unchained, can you talk about where this comic ended from where you and Jim Lee thought it would go? Did you accomplish what you set out to do as a storyteller with this book?

Snyder: Honestly, it's one of the rare comics that is endingexactly where I pitched it to end. It's very weird as there are a lot of times where you'll see a callback from issue #1 – the boy with the binoculars looking at Wraith, Luthor's paper folding, this notion of what the sun means, who Superman is, the satellite that falls in the first issue – a lot of the things, both visual and narrative in nature, are echoed in issue #9. That was all designed from the very beginning.

What Superman Unchained is all about for me – not to spoil it – is why I think Superman is great. It's meant to be a kind of challenge to the kind of conventional take on Superman, which is that he stands for "truth, justice, and the American way," that he's this monolithic symbol of all things that are good and right. To me, you start writing him and you realize he doesn't know what the hell he's doing half the time. It's basically trial and error. He's doing the best he can. It's not that he stands for anything; if anything, he stands for following your own moral compass even if that compass leads you to places that make absolutely no logical sense whatsoever. Spell your own doom. Why would you create a human identity, fall in love, or even grow affectionate towards all of your human friends and coworkers when you age much more slowly than them? In a few years, they're going to realize that something's wrong. Why would you ally yourself with nogovernment if you know every government is going to be building weapons to take you down if you interfere with a protocol of theirs? Why would you help with some things, some catastrophic events but not others like political oppression?

Superman, to me, is inspiring and wonderful because he isn't a straight beam of light that's always right. He's actually this zigzagging, trial-and-error beam of light, and in that, he's ten times as more inspiring than if he always knew the right thing to do. In that way, the last issue is very much about that idea.

One of the things about issue #9 I love the most – again, not to spoil it – is that I think the person who understands that the best about Superman, in some ways, is Lex. There's a reason why, and it's a fun secret we reveal at the end of the issue. So it really ends where I hoped it would end, and I couldn't be prouder of it.

Nrama: Now, in what ways has working with Jim Lee been different from your other artistic collaborators?

Snyder: I think in some ways it's a series where working with Jim is very different from any other artist I have where his strengths are so incredible when it comes to certain iconic moments. And he's great at small moments, too, but he just nails these bombastic, muscular actions. You know, those things that are just so …viscerally giant and surreal. So I wanted to end the story in such a way that would bring everything together in this sort of culmination where the Earth hangs in the balance, the superheroes are powerless, Lex Luthor and everybody is about to die, and it raises the stakes with the whole cast. And Jim really allowed me to go there. He added pages to this issue that weren't in the actual page count, but he did them, so he made it even bigger than it was supposed to be. I really couldn’t be any prouder of it, honestly.

I've been nervous about it at times because Superman has not been the character I've gravitated towards since childhood. I've loved him dearly, but Batman is always the one I've always felt an affinity for. If I had to pick a character to write after Batman, it was immediately Superman. But I'm scared writing him in the same way I was scared writing Batman. But what Jim has been able to do and where this story goes, I'm as proud of this as anything else I've done.

Nrama: One thing that stood out to me about Superman Unchained from the very beginning was that it seemed to operate outside of the New 52 continuity in the sense that the events taking place within the DC New 52 haven't really informed or influenced the narrative trajectory of Superman Unchained - it stood alone. This is something that has largely defined your writing style in Batman as well. Why take the story in this direction, and in a world where the various characters are interacting with one another, was it something DC was open to or did you need to "work them over" to have this happen?

Snyder: No. In a lot of ways, if you look at Batman, it looks like it operates within a lot of the DC Universe, but it's also pretty singular in the way it goes about things. I try to design stories where you don't have to read anything else to enjoy that story. I hate stories where it depends on you knowing what's going on in the other books to make sense of what's happening in that one. It doesn't mean I don't want to take pieces and share and be a part of a greater universe; believe me, I'm pretty aggressive in the "Bat World" to ensure we're all coordinated. I love knowing that it all makes sense. ButSuperman Unchained does take place in New 52 continuity as he's not at The Daily Planet. And at the end of it, it does sort of coincide a bit with what's happening in Geoff [Johns'] run in where he is with his feelings about The Daily Planet.

But if it means reflecting Ulysses or what's going on in "Doomed," who wants that? My feeling is that if I'm a reader and I'm reading Batman, do you really want Gotham Academy #1 to be saying "Guess what! The Joker's back!" No, you don't. If you do, honestly, I don't know what to tell you. What I want is books that are individuated and that have stories that they want to tell about these characters. Yes, they exist in the same universe, but they don't depend on you knowing what's going on in the other end of it. If something big is going on in Batgirl, I can reference if I want to be a nice nod, but if I had to reflect it…Well, for example, there was a big storm going on in Batmanonce. It was something seasonal in Batgirl, and editorial called and asked if I could work it into the story. I said, "If I can, I can."

Those things are nice. What's not nice is if in Superman Unchained I have him say "Thank God I'm back from being Doomed!" That's not nice. You don't want that. If you do, I apologize to all of you out there, but I'm not interested in that. What I'm interested in is being able to read a book like Superman/Batman: Public Enemies. I want to read a book like The Search for Kryptonite. I want to read a book like A Superman for all Seasons or anything that you read that is singular. Some of them happen in continuity, some of them don't. But eventually, you want to be able to pick up the trade or the arc and not remember that "Doomed" was going on at the same time or that "Infinite Crisis" was happening over here.

It was a conscious choice to make it in-continuity but not dependent on it - the same way I write Batman.

Nrama: You've spoken before about how if this was the one Superman story you got to tell, this is the angle you would take. What aspect/s of the story do you think stand out most? If readers are standing in a Barnes and Noble, maybe they're going to pick up Superman: Red Son, because they want this Elseworld's story exploring communist worldview on American superheroes. If they're standing there looking at a trade of Superman Unchained, they're going to pick it up because…

Snyder: It really is – and I love Superman. You're really getting me nostalgic over how much I do love Superman: Red Son. My top Superman books are All-Star Supermanat the top, Red Son, A Superman for all Seasons, I really loved Gary Frank and Geoff Johns' Superman: Secret Origins…there's a bunch.

What Superman Unchained has to offer is it looks like a classic Superman story in the modern age. It's larger than life and all that. What it really is, I hope, is a breaking down of Superman through saying "What you actually think about him isn't true. He's not this singular, inspirational sort of figure. If you look at him piece by piece, he's the opposite. But in being the opposite, he's more inspiring.

Someone who always knows the right thing to do and is always sure of himself…as you cut through them, there's only that facet to his character. To me, Superman gets described that way a lot. People say he's hard to write because of this element. When I approached him and began writing him, I felt he wasn't all about that. He's not like that at all to me. He's the guy who's trying desperately to figure out, case by case, what the hell is the right thing to do in these giant sets of circumstances with these astounding consequences falling on him if he does the wrong thing. Sometimes he makes mistakes, as you'll learn in the last issue, and sometimes he does the "right thing" based on the majority's perception of what the "right thing" really is.

In the end, what's really inspiring about Superman is he can go to sleep happy because he always does the thing he thinks is right. But there's this discrepancy between that and doing the right thing. Superman is fascinating because he does so many of the wrong things because he believes they're right. In doing that, he should be as big of an inspiration as any other American folk hero.