New 52 Superman's stance on Killing?

#1 Posted by Z3RO180 (5943 posts) - - Show Bio

So i was reading the invincible compendium and was thinking about when Mark and his dad fight the Viltrumites and the only way to defeat them is to kill them. So then i started to think about Superman and how he doesnt kill. So if a Viltrumite where to come to earth and start doing what they do best would superman kill the dude or just throw himback in to space batterd and beaten telling him he would do much worse if he or any other one from his race come to earth again.

#2 Posted by syoungkeezy (80 posts) - - Show Bio

i hope that in new 52 he start killing that whole supes is too good to kill thing is bull when he was first created he killed bad guys and if action comics reboot is anything to go by he will be killing again which in my mind is great villians like Doomsday who im sure we will see cannot be reasoned with they need to be ended. I also think that as readers we have reached a point where we can tolerate killing every once in a while like in an end of the world scenario and with supes powers im surprised that even whens he's angry he still manages to have retraint what bullshit

#3 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he's into killing at all. I haven't been keeping up with Superman in the New 52 (shame on me, I'll be fixing that soon), but from the little I've seen so far, he looks to be the same as he usually was.

The Golden Age Superman is the only one I remember not really caring about killing, but that's all that I can recall.

#4 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats a simple question, I think Superman should kill if its inevitable. But if he had a choice, he would lock them up in the phantom zone.

#5 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

It would depend on the person he's fighting, like against Doomsday I think he realised he was going to have to kill him and it was the only option avalible to him in those circumstances.

#6 Posted by SandMan_ (4526 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom Zone?

#7 Edited by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah, It's against everything modern Supes represents. Hal (or any Lantern) can kill, Diana can kill, Aquaman can kill, but it's just not Superman's way

#8 Posted by Lvenger (16017 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope New 52 Superman is against killing. Admittedly it started to look that way at first but now his character has developed, he's against killing. I think the Parademons weren't actual living things so Superman tearing them apart is technically alright, I think.

#9 Posted by buttersdaman000 (8796 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman and Batman don't kill unless under extreme circumstances. All the other justice league members are much more inclined to do so though. 

#10 Posted by SandMan_ (4526 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackArmor: It used to be :P And there has been times...Where Supes has had no choice.
#11 Posted by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_: Supes has killed before?....and it actually stuck?

#12 Posted by SandMan_ (4526 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackArmor: In The Supergirl Saga back in the 80's. Doomsday...I'm pretty sure there was someone else.
 
 
Take note. Superman had no choice with these monsters.
#13 Posted by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@BlackArmor: In The Supergirl Saga back in the 80's. Doomsday...I'm pretty sure there was someone else. Take note. Superman had no choice with these monsters.

I knew Doomsday but that didn't stick, I hadn't heard about the others though

#14 Posted by SandMan_ (4526 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackArmor: An alternative Universe Zod, Foara and some other kryptonian.
 
They all killed the entire human race. Superman had no choice. He exposed them to kryptonite.
#15 Posted by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ said:

@BlackArmor: An alternative Universe Zod, Foara and some other kryptonian. They all killed the entire human race. Superman had no choice. He exposed them to kryptonite.

Huh, I can't say I blame him for taking out those guys, still I'm a little disappointed that he didn't figure out a way around it. Oh well, it's not canon anymore Superman still hasn't killed in my eyes (yay thanks reboot...revamp...relaunch....whatever)

#16 Posted by Thorion88 (310 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor:

If I remember it correctly, the Pocket Universe Zod, Faora, & Quex-Ul had their powers taken from Superman when he used that universes Gold Kryptonite on them. He had to use that since they were as strong as Pre-Crisis Kryptonians. However they threatened to invade Superman's native universe when they got their powers back and do the same to that Earth, leaving Superman no other choice he had to expose them to green kryptonite under their unpowered selves killing them to prevent his Earth being their next victim.

#17 Posted by Redberry (797 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is the only one of trinity who would kill if she has to. Superman would be less of a wuss if he starts doing it also. Most readers nowaday are not kids. DC should really become a bit edgier with their characters.

#18 Posted by SandMan_ (4526 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thorion88 said:

@BlackArmor:

If I remember it correctly, the Pocket Universe Zod, Faora, & Quex-Ul had their powers taken from Superman when he used that universes Gold Kryptonite on them. He had to use that since they were as strong as Pre-Crisis Kryptonians. However they threatened to invade Superman's native universe when they got their powers back and do the same to that Earth, leaving Superman no other choice he had to expose them to green kryptonite under their unpowered selves killing them to prevent his Earth being their next victim.

Yup.
#19 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Redberry: I disagree. Superman should never kill. He is way too overpowered and it would take away from a large part of the character to have him killing. I'm okay with WW doing it, maybe even one of the Lanterns, and definitely with Aquaman. However, I think that Supes and Bats should never kill.

#20 Posted by KnightRise (4753 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

Nope New 52 Superman is against killing. Admittedly it started to look that way at first but now his character has developed, he's against killing. I think the Parademons weren't actual living things so Superman tearing them apart is technically alright, I think.

I assumed that was the case with the parademons. But they shouldve explained that either he or Green Lantern made it known to the team that they werent sentient beings.

#21 Edited by syoungkeezy (80 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: urs is probably the best answer he can kill but only when faced with an opponent who wont chnage i.e. luthor or doomsday i get that if he kills excessively then it will be there no need for other heroes and everyone would be scared of him but i think luthor needs to go why cant he just drop an island on him, with the reboot dc need to take into account that these arnt the old days anymore heck goverments kill their citizens for nation security and readers arnt soft he should definately get to kill, another thing i wanna see DC do is show superman in a battle where he doesnt just use brute strength but a thought process where he runs a battle scenario in his head, not all the time but when he is up against villains of darkseid's level like Plutoian in irredeemable the way he used his powers is how supes should do it every now and then

#22 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (4669 posts) - - Show Bio
@SandMan_
@Thorion88 said:

@BlackArmor:

If I remember it correctly, the Pocket Universe Zod, Faora, & Quex-Ul had their powers taken from Superman when he used that universes Gold Kryptonite on them. He had to use that since they were as strong as Pre-Crisis Kryptonians. However they threatened to invade Superman's native universe when they got their powers back and do the same to that Earth, leaving Superman no other choice he had to expose them to green kryptonite under their unpowered selves killing them to prevent his Earth being their next victim.

Yup.
Aww , I miss the Byrne Superman. Superman should kill if necessary if there's no other option.
This putting him and Batman on a pedestal is sickening.
#23 Edited by Lvenger (16017 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

@Lvenger said:

Nope New 52 Superman is against killing. Admittedly it started to look that way at first but now his character has developed, he's against killing. I think the Parademons weren't actual living things so Superman tearing them apart is technically alright, I think.

I assumed that was the case with the parademons. But they shouldve explained that either he or Green Lantern made it known to the team that they werent sentient beings.

I know right? The Parademons looked sentient at first and I was getting majorly angry at Superman breaking his code. I suppose he could have x-rayed them like he did with Helspont's drone in Superman #7 but that wasn't explained. GL could have used his ring to examine the parademons but again that too wasn't explained.

@WaveMotionCannon: Why is it sickening to have examples of characters with great moral stature who refuse to end life and find another way to win that abides by humanity's moral principles? That's not sickening to me in the slightest. Remember what Superman's words on killing were when he faced the Elite and tricked everyone into thinking he'd killed them? He proved that killing is not a viable solution as it makes you as bad as the people they were killing themselves.

#24 Posted by KingofMadCows (345 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see why Superman, or any character, has to have only one stance on a particular subject and never change their opinion on the matter.

Intelligent people always seek out new information. Sometimes, they gather a lot of evidence or good arguments against one of their beliefs and they change it. And if they were to encounter more evidence that sway the argument back in favor of their original belief, they could change their opinion back.

There's no reason why Superman has to always be on one side of the issue.

#25 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@syoungkeezy: I dont see it as killing only if they wont change. Joker would never change but Batman wont kill him either.

I see it as he would only kill if its either that thing's death or apocalypse. Like if theres a doomsday going insane and the only way to stop him is to kill him.

But ofcourse that is the last option. He should always try to put them in the phantom zone, but if the phantom zone cant keep that villain then.....

#26 Posted by syoungkeezy (80 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: no he proved that he was a fag some people need to be put down, in the he words of Alfred some men cant be reasoned with and they just wana watch the world burn, hell luthor hates superman coz he doesnt have any powers what kinda reason is that to kill someone, besides if superman/batman dont kill then it will lead to the rise of punisher like characters who think heros r too soft and cant do what needs to be done which will lead to more death overall now supes/bats are power/resorceful but they cant be everywhere and cant stop every bad guy, and this is why i think Jasin is one fo the best DC characters he said "u cant stop crime only control it" a kind of lord of war line

#27 Posted by Lvenger (16017 posts) - - Show Bio

@syoungkeezy: Refusing to fall to the temptation of killing does not make Superman a fag at all. If men can't be reasoned with then they have to be dealt with but not killed, imprisoned where they can't hurt anyone. That's how criminals should be dealt with by society, not executed like they were in the old days. We've moved beyond that. And whilst there are a few antiheroes who I like, I disagree with their stance on killing. It is not a viable solution in crime fighting. All life matters regardless of the choices they have made and we can't change our stance on it as it makes us no better than the people who kill in the first place.

You're right that Superman and Batman can't be everywhere at once but it's the symbol they represent as a figurehead for humanity to aspire to as a better moral character is what makes them so special as heroes.

As for your Jason Todd comment, not only is it wrong, it didn't end well for Jason. Bruce stopped him, he lost control of the gangs and Jason murdered and killed for a bent cause. Crime should be subdued, no one has the right to impose that level of control on a city's crime, they're just becoming as bad as the criminals themselves and Jason deserved to be stopped just like any other criminal.

Besides, Batman explained why he didn't kill the Joker. He said it would be too easy, that he regularly puts off the temptation to end the Joker's life knowing that if he crossed that line, he could never come back. That strength of moral character in both Superman and Batman does not make them fags at all compared to anti heroes that are willing to kill.

#28 Posted by Z3RO180 (5943 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: ithink you have just answerd my question

#29 Posted by polo327 (58 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman's determination to never kill is one of the reason's why he stands above most other heroes. I'm not against killing in comics (someone seriously needs to kill the joker), but Superman should never do it.

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