Man of Steel/Logic

#1 Posted by GERALD (165 posts) - - Show Bio

***SPOILERS for MAN OF STEEL***

I was born in 1990. Do the math.

As a kid I watched both of the DC animated Batman/Superman shows (albeit Batman more than Superman) and read a handful of their titles as I got older (I'm not a die hard fan so don't try and test my knowledge because you'll undoubtedly stump me).

So, why am I telling you this? Who cares? Just bare with me for a little bit longer.

It was somehow unanimously decided among my elementary school friends that Batman was much cooler than Superman. Batman appealed to our 8 year old mentalities because he was dark, mysterious and struck fear into the hearts of criminals.

Superman was/is clearly stronger than Batman but no one seemed to take this into account when choosing the preferred hero. Why? Because even as kids everyone knew that in addition to having an image designed for the 1940's (which, lets face it, does not translate well into other decades), Superman appears to be a big pussy. Sure, he can go toe to toe with the strongest DC villains but there is nothing menacing or intimidating about him. There's no edge. That doesn't mean superheroes have to be "ooh edgy" to be compelling but in Superman's case it was like seeing your uncle fly around in blue tights and a cape. And every kid I knew essentially agreed that Superman was simply not cool.

This is obviously a childish and surface level opinion of an 8 year old, upon reading more comics I soon grew out of this mentality and developed a great deal of fascination with the character. But for most of my generation and the ones that followed, this unflattering image of the man of steel is still around.

So let's tie this into the present: Man of Steel. Not a perfect film by any means. The fight scenes, my god. They went on for WAY too long, and the Christ allegories were a bit much. We get to the climax where Superman has Zod in a headlock. Zod is hell bent on harming innocent civilians and it is clear he is not going to stop anytime soon, so Superman surprises everyone and snaps his neck.

I'll be honest, that was pretty surprising. I mean, it's Superman, not The Punisher. But Synder (and believe me, I am not this guy's biggest fan) decided to take a risk and have Superman do the one thing he must never do. After letting the shock factor sink in, I have to admit that it was a big risk which I think they handled well. What were they going to do, handcuff him and toss him into jail? "Now now Zoddie boy, don't do it again!" How else could he logically stop a being whose power essentially matched his own WITHOUT Kryptonite?

We see this problem occur over and over in the comics. Batman locks up the Joker; Joker escapes and kills 3 dozen more people when common sense dictates that the most effective solution would be to kill/lobotmize him (which most of you know was done in the animated Justice League series). So they decided to have our hero do the unthinkable and divert from the traditional image of the character.

Does this mean Superman will kill all of his enemies from here on out? Of course not. But at least it will show a new generation of fans that when faced with an unstoppable enemy, Superman will do what is right instead of chucking him off to jail just so they can break out again. And let's be honest, the real reason why Batman/Superman haven't murdered their arch rivals is because keeping the characters alive will sell future issues, it is not solely because of the hero's sense of morality.

This is not Christopher Reeve/Richard Donner's Superman. This Superman is a lot more angsty and cold, and at times a little hard to identify with (is it me or did it feel like he had some form of autism at times?) Maybe it doesn't line up with the classic Superman model that you grew up with but does that always have to be a bad thing? I would suggest taking off the nostalgia goggles that you view the character in and think about this "issue" logically..

#2 Edited by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@gerald said:
That doesn't mean superheroes have to be "ooh edgy" to be compelling but in Superman's case it was like seeing your uncle fly around in blue tights and a cape.

Hey! I thought my Uncle was cool as the antarctic when I was a kid and if I EVER saw him like that, I would have thought he was cooler.

#3 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@gerald said:

So let's tie this into the present: Man of Steel. Not a perfect film by any means. The fight scenes, my god. They went on for WAY too long, and the Christ allegories were a bit much.

Oh wah. Go preach about how all matter and energy were condensed into an area the size of a marble and then, for no reason what so ever, decided that it was time to create the Universe.

#4 Posted by GERALD (165 posts) - - Show Bio

@perezite said:

@gerald said:

So let's tie this into the present: Man of Steel. Not a perfect film by any means. The fight scenes, my god. They went on for WAY too long, and the Christ allegories were a bit much.

Oh wah. Go preach about how all matter and energy were condensed into an area the size of a marble and then, for no reason what so ever, decided that it was time to create the Universe.

I didn't mind that much. I'm just saying Synder wasn't exactly SUBTLE about the imagery. Calm down.

#5 Posted by joshmightbe (24952 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the whole too much action complaint is weird because prior to this everyone was bitching about Superman not having enough action in his movies.

#6 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the whole too much action complaint is weird because prior to this everyone was bitching about Superman not having enough action in his movies.

^ What this guy said.

#7 Edited by w0nd (3729 posts) - - Show Bio

His quote and to why superman did what he did at the end is logical. You should just make this a spoiler thread because I found myself blacking out the majority of what I was going to type and it became a hassle :P

I was happy with the length's of the fights, the thing I thought dragged on was him fighting the world creator it was him just avoiding being hit for an extended period of time.

I didn't find him angsty or cold, I found him as the guy tolerating people's shit that are clearly inferior to him. Oh you're going to bully me even though you guys know I moved a bus just so you can test your own strength...ugh fine

oh you want to fight me even though im 6ft1 and huge...ugh fine i'll leave

You want to hand cuff me? Ugh fine ill do it with a smile on my face so you feel more comfortable


He was so polite and nice about everything it was crazy. I feel he held in his anger which is fine ,he wouldn't just get bullied his whole life and be all sunshine and tickle farts, you could tell he was holding in his anger at people being fools around him. OR he could go back to the bar and beat up that bully like he did in the Christoper Reeves movie

#8 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1441 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the whole too much action complaint is weird because prior to this everyone was bitching about Superman not having enough action in his movies.

lol i kno right...

When you look at the film as a whole every complaint against it except for maybe the zod death Which is Highly debatable is all just nit-picking blown out of proportion.....the fight scenes were long maybe,but one can't not admit it was the best representation of comic fights or at least what we would expect from a Kryptonian fight brought to the big screen.

#9 Edited by DRUDOX19 (158 posts) - - Show Bio

What bugs me is that these fans who say the movie is shit and i want to ask them do you want to wait 10 more years for Superman film again. I WILL NOT HAVE ANOTHER REBOOT I REFUSE THAT SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#10 Posted by Wolverine08 (43796 posts) - - Show Bio

MOS is getting complaints because it failed to meet expectations. People were expecting the greatest CBM of all time and got just a good CBM.

#11 Posted by Perezite (1432 posts) - - Show Bio

@gerald said:

@perezite said:

@gerald said:

So let's tie this into the present: Man of Steel. Not a perfect film by any means. The fight scenes, my god. They went on for WAY too long, and the Christ allegories were a bit much.

Oh wah. Go preach about how all matter and energy were condensed into an area the size of a marble and then, for no reason what so ever, decided that it was time to create the Universe.

I didn't mind that much. I'm just saying Synder wasn't exactly SUBTLE about the imagery. Calm down.

Ah. My mistake then.

On that note though, was Bryan Singer any more subtle? Not really? I'd argue he was worse.

#12 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

MOS is getting complaints because it failed to meet expectations. People were expecting the greatest CBM of all time and got just a good CBM.

I gotta say, this is kinda true. Expectations were way to high! I lowered it and it helped me enjoyed the movie more. I probably would have been disappointed if I had kept them high.

Sequel needs to correct lots of things.

#13 Edited by GERALD (165 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

I think the whole too much action complaint is weird because prior to this everyone was bitching about Superman not having enough action in his movies.

lol i kno right...

except for maybe the zod death Which is Highly debatable

That is what I want to debate. Did it "ruin" the movie for you?

#14 Posted by joshmightbe (24952 posts) - - Show Bio

@gerald: Actually Zod's death made perfect sense to me given the situation, also since he's killed Zod a few times already any way I don't see why him doing it here is such a big deal.

#15 Posted by UltimateSMfan (1441 posts) - - Show Bio

@gerald said:
@ultimatesmfan said:

@joshmightbe said:

I think the whole too much action complaint is weird because prior to this everyone was bitching about Superman not having enough action in his movies.

lol i kno right...

except for maybe the zod death Which is Highly debatable

That is what I want to debate. Did it "ruin" the movie for you?

Not in the slightest,keeping with the direction of the story and plot,it wasn't That much of a shock at all. its so lame people bashing the entire movie cuz of one detail,which if one paid attention and followed what was happening,would make perfect sense. and i commend the writers for having the stones to put Supes in that position which apparently he should never be in acc to some fans which i think is really stupid. anyway i don't kno how this is any less of "our" superman as people are saying.

#16 Posted by LuxTenebris (4 posts) - - Show Bio

I spoiled myself the whole twist of the movie by reading reviews all week, untill today I finally got to see it. At the beggining I thought it was going to be a huge movie, but after reading everything, I sort of felt cheated for not having the same character from the comics (which, untill recently, I used to hate), so my expectations were very lowered. When I got to actually see the movie, it blew me away, and I am sure it wouldn't have if I hadn't went to it with the perception that this is not going to be very good. If I probably were to see the final scene with Supes and Zod without knowing what was going to happen, I would have probably ravage the theater, but it wasn't such a big deal... it also happend faster than I imagined.

This is really going to affect Superman in the sequel, which will surley be made after all the money the movie got, and it might open up to the character we know and love, but also in the grittier world created in MoS.

I give the movie a 8.5/10 as a simple movie, a 9/10 for a comic book movie and 6.5/10 as a Superman movie. Still, love it and I am probably going to watch it again. It's not really the Superman I wished, but it is one hell of a Man of Steel.

#17 Posted by GERALD (165 posts) - - Show Bio

@gerald said:
@ultimatesmfan said:

@joshmightbe said:

I think the whole too much action complaint is weird because prior to this everyone was bitching about Superman not having enough action in his movies.

lol i kno right...

except for maybe the zod death Which is Highly debatable

That is what I want to debate. Did it "ruin" the movie for you?

Not in the slightest,keeping with the direction of the story and plot,it wasn't That much of a shock at all. its so lame people bashing the entire movie cuz of one detail,which if one paid attention and followed what was happening,would make perfect sense. and i commend the writers for having the stones to put Supes in that position which apparently he should never be in acc to some fans which i think is really stupid. anyway i don't kno how this is any less of "our" superman as people are saying.

^^^This times 40 billion.

#18 Edited by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@gerald said:
@ultimatesmfan said:

@joshmightbe said:

I think the whole too much action complaint is weird because prior to this everyone was bitching about Superman not having enough action in his movies.

lol i kno right...

except for maybe the zod death Which is Highly debatable

That is what I want to debate. Did it "ruin" the movie for you?

Not in the slightest,keeping with the direction of the story and plot,it wasn't That much of a shock at all. its so lame people bashing the entire movie cuz of one detail,which if one paid attention and followed what was happening,would make perfect sense. and i commend the writers for having the stones to put Supes in that position which apparently he should never be in acc to some fans which i think is really stupid. anyway i don't kno how this is any less of "our" superman as people are saying.

I initially approved of it when i first thought about it, but after I learned that the only reason they added the scene was to set up his No-kill code i immediately disapproved. Superman refuses to kill out of the belief that it will lead to a better world not out of guilt. Thats why its not our Superman. Though i will say that i enjoyed the movie. I think of movies as more of an elseworlds instead of an actual comic based movie.

#19 Posted by PCN24454 (454 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually if the enemy in the Donner films wasn't human, they'd be dead.

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