Liberal Superman? Shock Horror.

  • 54 results
  • 1
  • 2
Posted by BKole (501 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't pretend to know what Liberal means in the states, but over here in England Liberal is a good thing, or at least it is to me. Currently we have a Government who feels that servicing the people who already make STUPID MONEY at year is a better plan of action than dealing with things like Immigrations, Unemployment, the state of the NHS and all that jazz.

So the idea of a Liberal Activist Superman doesn't exactly sound BAD really does it? Doing something about the state of people for the people isn't a communist idea so much as a humanist idea. For some reason being nice to people and trying to provide a baseline existence for humanity is labelled as Socialism or Communism instead of being humanism. Providing basic things like not getting shot in the face, and being able to feed your children isn't a bad thing so I don't understand why giving Superman a Liberal activist stance is going to cause the uproar I can already see on Bleedingcool. This is like Superman giving up citizenship for America - When your identity is fluid, and based on your personality, nationality doesn't even play a role, it's simple a place where you are born.

Anyway, tiny rant there

#1 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio

If Superman is above concepts like nationalism and racism, why not liberalism and conservatism?

#2 Posted by BKole (501 posts) - - Show Bio

Good point, although I view Liberalism as more like humanism than anything else. Wanting to help your fellow man not wanting to see poor people suffer and rich people get richer isn't something I'd class specifically as liberalism, more as...just being a good person.

#3 Posted by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio

I always wondered why people called redistribution of the wealth communist. Yet those same people end up crying to the government for not helping them out.  
@PowerHerc said:

If Superman is above concepts like nationalism and racism, why not liberalism and conservatism?

This.
#4 Posted by NightFang (10067 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc: You should ask Fox News that question.  
#5 Posted by MKF30 (11635 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO Superman should not be political, they tried it and it failed.

#6 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio
@MKF30 said:
IMO Superman should not be political, they tried it and it failed.
  I agree with this completely.
#7 Posted by _Sojourn_ (19252 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is gonna be gay in the reboot...LOL

#8 Posted by SuperGamera (565 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is above politics
#9 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
@Slight said:
Superman is gonna be gay in the reboot...LOL
From Rent: "I'm more of a man than you'll ever be, and more of a woman than you'll ever get."... It appears gays are really more than the average man... Super man perhaps? Nyehehehehe!
#10 Posted by _Sojourn_ (19252 posts) - - Show Bio
@ssejllenrad: I hated that movie, Ive only seen bits and pieces of it and I still hate it
#11 Posted by Ebbm (1118 posts) - - Show Bio
@Slight: lmfao
 
*imagining the reaction*
#12 Posted by GTG12 (1575 posts) - - Show Bio
@Slight
 
lol
#13 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
@Slight: Haha! Well to each his/her/his+her hybrid own... Nyehehehehehe!
#14 Posted by MrUnknown (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that Superman should be above politics. But I think just be wearing his cape and flying out the window, his actions speak more liberal than conservative to me.

#15 Edited by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio

 I agree there is nothing wrong with being liberal, unless your conservative, that is and vice versa. There in lies the rub. I don't know the actual percentage, but hypothetically if 50% of your audience is Liberal then the other 50% of your audience whose conservative would be turned off by the fact that Superman is liberal, and vice versa. Personally I think superheroes should stay out of politics, not because Superman is above them, but because I think you want to keep your characters universal so everyone can enjoy the character.  If anything, if the writers really want to Superman political then he should be Centrist. 
 
And what does above politics even mean?  I think part of Superman's charm is that he doesn't try and act as though he's above human beings even though he is. 

#16 Edited by MydLyfeCrysis (106 posts) - - Show Bio

Well this can get on a debate of political philosophies all you want, but that usually will go nowhere. Especially since what Americans think when Liberal is stated, and what Brits think when Liberal is stated is quite different. Culturally the divide is far greater than one would initially imagine. I'm an American currently in the UK so I have a little bit of understanding of both sides, though I would not pretend to be an expert. If this really is meant as a debate of political philosophy, then I'd suggest a different forum for it.  Not to mention I would assume very few people on this forum actually understand liberalism versus conservatism, both the social and economic sides, and the implications of either.
 
Though if you are asking why people were upset with that awful story that had Superman renouncing his citizenship, or why it was perceived as bad, that's been covered ad nauseam.  If you truly wish for an American's perspective in an effort of cultural understanding on why it was so awful to some, I can certainly help with that.
 

#17 Posted by MKF30 (11635 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I think Superman should always be an American Super Hero that protects the World and never get political. 

#18 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Slight said:
Superman is gonna be gay in the reboot...LOL
Superman isn't really a man...he just looks like one. I don't know if he has a penis or not. 
 
For all I know, people of his alien race could be one of 5 or 6 sexes. It doesn't matter. Nothing about the entire Superman mythos has anything to do with sex. 
 
What Supes is about is duty and patriotism. His sex or sexual inclinations are immaterial.
#19 Posted by _Sojourn_ (19252 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr: Very astute analysis Roxx. XD But I'm sure you know that I was joking, signified by the "LOL" and the partially unknown/known fact that I never really liked Supes to begin with, don't know much about his character, except that he's very over rated and I can't tell you how many sexes he could possibly be.
#20 Edited by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:

@Slight said:

Superman is gonna be gay in the reboot...LOL
Superman isn't really a man...he just looks like one. I don't know if he has a penis or not. 
 
For all I know, people of his alien race could be one of 5 or 6 sexes. It doesn't matter. Nothing about the entire Superman mythos has anything to do with sex. 
 
What Supes is about is duty and patriotism. His sex or sexual inclinations are immaterial.
 
I beg to differ with this opinion. I think his sexual orientation is a corner stone of his character. I mean a large part of his entire identity and story revolve around his relationship with Lois Lane and  to some extent Lana Lang.  He's clearly heterosexual. I'm all for being more accepting of  new social roles like that of sexual orientation, but denying the sexual identity of a character like Superman kinda takes it to far. His character is far from being sexually ambiguous. And technically, yes, Clark Kent is a man, or more accurately a Super-M.A.N.. That's why he's called Superman as opposed to Supergirl or Superboy or Supertransgender or Superagender (which actually sounds kinda cool). Gender plays an obvious role in his character. I'm not sure about the comics, but in the show Smallville he's even had intercourse with human women (i.e. Lana and Lois), so I'm pretty sure he has a penis. Besides have you seen Brandon Routh's Superman costume.  
 
Your entitled to your own interpretation of the character, but I'm just sayin'.
#21 Posted by _Sojourn_ (19252 posts) - - Show Bio
@xybernauts: Oh relax...
#22 Posted by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
@Slight: Just had to throw that out there. :)
#23 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio
@xybernauts: You say "sexual orientation" but I think you just mean "gender."
#24 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I walked in this thread about to say something political, and walked out wondering if he has a penis or not.... Sonofabitch....

#25 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@xybernauts:  
 
The relationship that Superman has with the women in his life are all about LOVE not SEX. He wants to marry a woman who just like the gal who married dear old dad, but whether he has the equipment to have sex is immaterial. 
 
He wants to protect his women and make them happy...that's IT!!!  And that a LOT...and much more important than sex. 
 
And I don't care about the movie or TV Supes...I talking about the comic book character.
#26 Posted by MydLyfeCrysis (106 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr: You are really reaching there. I don't believe there is any validity to this.
#27 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people have read too much in what Grant Morrison said.

#28 Posted by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr: Yes, but your basing your assessment on a technicality. DC Comics can't show Superman's equipment because of the audience they cater to. That doesn't mean it's not there. How much more clear do they have to make it? About 95% of his body looks like a man so I'm sure it's a safe bet that the other 5% conforms to human male standards as well. I mean I find it hard to believe that Ma and Pa Kent would have never mentioned it. It could probably take up an entire story arc. :)  And he doesn't just base his view of gender based relationships on Ma and Pa Kent. He also bases it on Jor-el's and Laura's relationship as well. I think it's pretty clear Kryptonian society is gender based and that sex plays a role in those relationships. And yes he bases his relationships on love, but that doesn't mean that sex is unimportant to him. He's shown interest in Lois, Lana, Wonder Woman, but I've never seen him show interest in a guy.  
 
Besides, General Zod and Ursa gave birth to a child while in the Phantom Zone, His name was Christopher Kent aka Lor-Zod and this is in the comics.  I'm pretty sure DC has made it clear that Kryptonians has the equipment. 
 
This is Batman and Robin all over again...arrgh  j/k. :) 
#29 Edited by MydLyfeCrysis (106 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. Just like I said, getting political is always bad unless you know with whom you are discussing the subjects. Instead, I give you a picture of Krypto. He is a dog.

Krypto by Marcio Takara
#30 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@xybernauts said:

Besides, General Zod and Ursa gave birth to a child while in the Phantom Zone, His name was Christopher Kent aka Lor-Zod and this is in the comics.  I'm pretty sure DC has made it clear that Kryptonians has the equipment. 
 
But what equipment? Maybe they procreate by rubbing their feet together. Who knows? 
 
Supes is about Duty, Patriotism and LOVE...any and ALL other distractions are inconsequential.
#31 Posted by tonis (6202 posts) - - Show Bio

Roxanne actually brings up a good point in all of this. We have been under the assumption that because Krytonians appear to look like humans, that they must also think, and function like humans.

Things like liberalism, politics, and even love are results of the human environment he's been surrounded by since being a child. So it's no surprise it's influenced him in how he acts sometimes and makes him appear to be more human than he really is.

Based on the rewritten Krypton that Byrne introduced it's clear this was a more 'mechanical' civilization when it comes to rearing children or governing society. Their concept of 'love' could mean something very different than what we know it as. As Kal has learned of his heritage who's to say it hasn't caused confusion and conflict with who he wants to be on earth, which is apparently 'human'. Something he's constantly trying to prove to the world that he is under the cape.

#32 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@tonis:  
 
Thanks, sweetie, for taking the time to expand my thoughts...which I was too impatient to do.  :-)
#33 Edited by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
@tonis:  Your saying you don't think Kryptonians have gender? That's pretty much what this debate is about. You do seem to agree that Kryptonians look like humans. If that's true then I assume you also believe Superman has junk. :)   If I understand Roxanne Starr's argument, she is saying Kryptonians are genderless and that he doesn't have junk because we have never actually seen it. I don't believe this to be true. 
 
 The male female relationships in Superman comics isn't exclusive to Kal-El and Lois. You see it with Zod and Ursa, and Jor-El and Laura, and Zor-El and Alura and I'm sure there are others. And even when their aren't other Kryptonians around, characters like Superman, Superboy, and Supergirl consistently gravitate to characters of the opposite sex. I think this shows that  their own gender does influence their preferences which is typically a person who appears to be of the opposite sex. If they were genderless Kal-El might go out with Jimmy Olsen and Supergirl might go out with Wonder Woman. And to avoid confusion, I'm not necessarily talking about sexual orientation,  I'm talking about whether or not Krptonians identify themselves as having a gender and whether that gender identity influences their preference.  If it didn't then Kryptonians wouldn't limit their relationships to mates who "appear" to have the opposite sex. 
 
They are a gender based society. Their gender identity is not just the result of being influenced by human culture; it's a trait common place in Kryptonian society. 
 
As for love, Krytponians do feel love, they just don't acknowledge the emotion.  An excerpt from the Kara Zor-El wiki from dc.wikia . 
 

She remembers how the Science Guild told her love is is simply a chemical response to external stimuli and therefore should be ignored. But she does love Zor-El.  Supergirl (vol. 5) #47 (2009)


I agree that Kryptonians are typically an emotionally mechanical society. I think if I remember correctly Jor-El was actually frowned upon for showing love in Kryptonan society, but that doesn't mean gender doesn't play a role in their society. 
 
And technically Krytponians are run by the Science Council. I'm not sure about the specifics, but that sounds political to me.  I agree that they probably don't see the world the way we do and clearly their power shows us they don't function the way humans do, but my basic point it that yes they do have gender.  
#34 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@xybernauts:  
 
I still think that what Superman has down there isn't a penis. 
 
It could even be another hand.
#35 Posted by tonis (6202 posts) - - Show Bio

@xybernauts: naw, I'm not saying they don't have genders, I'm saying their idea of what 'male' or 'female' means in 'reproduction' may be somewhat different in their culture. Being a 'scientific' based society that is supposedly more 'evolved' than humans it makes sense that they would see the pairing of genetic material more a priority than they would 'love'. That's not to say there wouldn't be the occasional Kryptonian who chooses to follow their emotions rather than an ideal 'genetic partner', it's just less common in a world driven by scientific survival and order.

Things like attraction, or relationships, hell even sexual drive, aren't exclusive to humans. They are more like animal instincts, and would exist even in a cold mechanical civilization. They are just gonna be more repressed in that situation, but they are certainly capable of it as you see when you throw a Kryptonian on a planet like Earth. It brings up the whole argument about 'nature' vs 'nurture' and what results you get when you mix it up. Superman clearly 'loves' things a lot stronger than I suppose an average Krytonian would living on Krypton.

Considering they raise their children in a birthing matrix, and not a womb, you have to admit it leads one to question just exactly what the male and female contributions are and how it's extracted and connected. It's likely a male Kryptonian body looks and works like a human male body for the most part but I wouldn't just assume because they look the same that they ARE the same. If you were to discover that a Krypton male provides the egg, would you still consider him a male by human perception simply because they look like human males?

As for the politics (not government), that exists in pretty much everything from family life, to work life, to society. Even a Science Council trying to base it's decisions on fact alone will deal with politics as it determines what the facts are. It's the nature of any civilized beast :)

Superman does try to stay above the politics generally, he was 'nurtured' to do so by the Kents, but he certainly isn't immune to it anymore than anyone else at times because nature continues to throw it at him.

#36 Posted by One. (48 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how this thread been derailed by a gay joke. 

#37 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@One. said:
I like how this thread been derailed by a gay joke. 
O.K., I'll bring this thread back on point. 
 
The OP is by a person in the UK who thinks liberalism is a good thing. Well, in the US, home of Superman, liberalism is a very BAD thing. It has given us our highest rate of unemployment since The Great Depression, and the people who are suffering the worst are the poor. 
 
The idea of Superman being a liberal is preposterous. Superman is, was, and always will be a Conservative. That is the way that he was brought up. He has Values and Principles. Liberals do not.
#38 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman would be at least a democrat or he would be angry at the justice system for its revolving door policies. He has also shown compassion for the poor and wildlife.

#39 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@gravitypress said:
Superman would be at least a democrat or he would be angry at the justice system for its revolving door policies. He has also shown compassion for the poor and wildlife.
That would not make him a democrat. Democrats hate the poor. They enslave them.
#40 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13157 posts) - - Show Bio

god politics suck sooooo hard.
Online
#41 Posted by M.S. Feather (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Roxanne Starr said:

I still think that what Superman has down there isn't a penis. It could even be another hand.

Remind me to never play pat-a-cake with Superman.

#42 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr: I can see that. Democrats burden the poor with higher education and religious freedom.
#43 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a fan of anyone who considers them self a liberal or a conservative because those terms tend to lead to extremism which is always bad

#44 Posted by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
To start with, I don't think it's fair to suggest Superman would be either or. The best route for this particular character is for him to be centrist. This way he'd represent the full spectrum of what it means to be american as opposed to one side of the equation.  
 
@Roxanne Starr
said:
@One. said:
I like how this thread been derailed by a gay joke. 
O.K., I'll bring this thread back on point. 
 
The OP is by a person in the UK who thinks liberalism is a good thing. Well, in the US, home of Superman, liberalism is a very BAD thing. It has given us our highest rate of unemployment since The Great Depression, and the people who are suffering the worst are the poor. 
 
The idea of Superman being a liberal is preposterous. Superman is, was, and always will be a Conservative. That is the way that he was brought up. He has Values and Principles. Liberals do not.
I hope it doesn't seem that I'm picking on you, cause I'm not. I just find your comments to be so out there.  I don't know if your homosexual or transgender or even heterosexual, but from your comments I'd assume your liberal. I mean aren't you for homosexual rights and civil unions, etc. If you do then I'd assume you'd support liberal. I'm starting to think you make these comments just to be controversial. 
#45 Posted by EnSabahNurX (2317 posts) - - Show Bio
@gravitypress said:
Superman would be at least a democrat or he would be angry at the justice system for its revolving door policies. He has also shown compassion for the poor and wildlife.
I always considered the current Superman to be in the middle politically(basically neutral though tries to follow the law, he's a boyscout with powers), but the original superman was most likely a republican given the era of his creation
 
And way to say only democrats care about the poor and wildlife O_O
#46 Posted by BKole (501 posts) - - Show Bio

@Roxanne Starr: Wow. That's a hell of a controversial answer.

In the United Kingdom, we are currently facing a HUGE unemployment crisis, poor are suffering, people all over are suffering and we're under a CONSERVATIVE Government, not a liberal one. So, I don't actually think that being a conservative is a great thing, neither.

And, actually, saying that being a Liberal means you have no valves or Principles is complete fiction. I am a liberal, I believe in equality for all, unified health care and all those other things that go with being a liberal, like religious and sexual freedom. So, to actually say that all Liberals have no valves and principles is completely preposterous. Its actually rather insulting, as you're shoe-horning hundreds of thousands of people into a single extremely pejorative category. That's like saying all Americans are inbred, or all Russians are insane, or Greeks eat constantly. It's just not the sort of thing you can say in the 21st century and be taken seriously.

As far as genitals, who cares? Most organisms aside from the higher chordates just throw gametes into the water or rub little openings together. It could be highly possible that Kryptonian reproduction takes place through the media of air-born spores or something else. However, given humanoid physiology, as well as the possibility and suggestion that Lois and Clark have done the horizontal monster mash, I'd be more than inclined to consider the possibility that he has some facsimile of a dinkle.

Wow. Did this blog ever go wrong.

#47 Posted by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
@BKole said:

As far as genitals, who cares? 

Who cares he says, lol. People care if Superman does or doesn't have a US citizenship, but you don't think they'll care if he has a "dinkle"? 
#48 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio
@BKole: There are good and bad sides to both liberal and conservatives but moderation is better than both in all aspects of life 
#49 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@M.S. Feather said:

@Roxanne Starr said:

I still think that what Superman has down there isn't a penis. It could even be another hand.

Remind me to never play pat-a-cake with Superman.

Oh, and another one of his Super Powers is that no one can beat him at a game of Jacks.
#50 Edited by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@xybernauts said:

I hope it doesn't seem that I'm picking on you, cause I'm not. I just find your comments to be so out there.  I don't know if your homosexual or transgender or even heterosexual, but from your comments I'd assume your liberal. I mean aren't you for homosexual rights and civil unions, etc. If you do then I'd assume you'd support liberal. I'm starting to think you make these comments just to be controversial. 

I'm a Libertarian. And I am not for or against anyone's sexual orientation because it's none of my business. As far as homosexual rights go, however, I do not believe in discrimination. I do not believe that a person's rights should be dictated by government....and no group should be protected or given extra privileges any more than any other group. I am totally anti Group-Think.
 
Every individual is an individual with a unique set of traits and is put on this earth to do the best he or she can with that life without the interference of others to lobby or set up mandates either for or against them.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.