I'm beginning to contemplate not buying Superman because of JRJR's art. And that just leaves me to give Action Comics a second chance...

I hate JRJR's art, but I don't buy Superman because I have a pretty small pull list.

Even with the new writer coming along?

I think Action Comics #40 has the potential for greatness.

Considering Convergence is starting in a few months you will probably have too much time to choose.

Jrjr is alright.

@squalleon: Yeah, even then. Which is a real shame. What's Action Comics #40 about? The Bizarro issue?

Yes. Kuder's art seems great and the issue will have a lighter tone than the current arc. It certaintly has potential for being very fun.

I'm going to wait to see what the June 2015 solicits for Action Comics and Superman will be before I make my decision. I might ask you for advice too. Not anyone else though, I'm probably gonna get rinsed by Wildcard for this.

Yang has the potential to tell very good stories and you want to pick up only one title, I don't think why even Wildcard would object to this :P

I don't like his art but I buy the book because Supes is the man

Nah, as long as I like the characters and story, art doesn't really matter. Superman is my favorite character so why would I let something as inconsequential as art affect me? And that's not to say, I don't have my limit lol I suffered through the laziest chapters of HxH just because it's awesome haha

The art suited the writing, average. You've let me down Johns, and I had such high hopes for you :/

Is it that bad? I thought his art in Daredevil was pretty good. What's wrong with his superman art?

@bh6shouldhavehadsilversamurai: Nothing, really. I mean, I can fully understand why people don't like Romita's art and its particularities (not my cup of tea, either), but there's no denying he's objectively a great comic book artist. His storytelling, figurework, frame setup and camera angles are excellent, he has an extremely dynamic style and his drawings absolutely burst with kinetic energy. There's more to comic book art than pretty, proportional pictures, after all.

It's not exactly title ignoring bad imo even if it is a subjective art style.

^This

Seriously, talk about uninspired. It's like 'Unchained' all over again.

You dare ignore Action Comics... YOU DARE?!

@saint_wildcard: Just to make things clear, if I do give Action Comics another chance, it's for these reasons:

1. Pak's writing style is known to me so I know what to expect with his writing. Not so much with Yang, even though I think he'll be a really great fit for Superman.
2. Kuder's art>>Romita Jr even on Kuder's worst day.
3. Pak's good with power levels and feats, powerhouse characters are his specialty in that regard. I can at least Pak being unafraid to write a powerful Superman as I'm a battle boards fan too.

If you think I'm mainly going back to Action Comics because of Pak's storytelling, emotional characterisation and apparently being "the best Superman run in years/decades" you can think again. I'm far from on board with Pak's take on Superman for many reasons and when he inevitably does something not to my liking, I will critique and criticise it same as always. Pak's emotionally unstable, impulsive and morally dubious Superman is far from the Superman I grew up with and admired. In his own words, I would much rather Pak starts writing "Uncle Superman" rather than "Big Brother Superman." Nonetheless, I'm a stupidly loyal Superman fan, if there's one comic I'll always try and read, it's a Superman comic. At worst, Pak will at least scratch my Super Itch.

... I think you tagged the wrong person, cus I don't know why you're telling me this. . Do as you like, I'm gonna keep fanboying with @sanohibiki and @superguy1591 about Pak anyway.

Well yes of course I dare DM. I seem to be one of the few people who remember what Superman is supposed to stand for. Unlike a surprising amount of reviewers and Superman fans, I hardly think Pak is anywhere close to being the best thing to happen to Superman to some time. I much prefer Morrison, Snyder and Diggle's one issue of Action Comics when it comes to New 52 Superman writers. Let alone Superman's long history of quality creators in the past. I just haven't fully digged Pak's Superman run at all.

His first arc was the best but had very little development with the subterranean storyline. His Doomed crossovers were sluggish and sloppy and it's where Pak made very clear that he thought Superman was willing to kill. You know how much of a big deal Superman's no kill code is to me mate and I've been very disappointed at Pak for allowing that into his run. And his Horrorville arc ended annoyingly with Clark giving into his fears and doubts rather than rising above them to hope and optimism. Poor form from Pak there.

Look I don't dislike Pak's writing overall, his Marvel stuff is awesome, especially his runs on Hulk and Hercules. But I haven't enjoyed his Action Comics run nearly as much, and that's the truth.

I seriously dont understand how that art is allowed to get put through to the public. It looks like a 5 year old drew it.

@saint_wildcard: Blinded to discussion, reason and objectivity as always Wildcard, expected nothing less from someone who only pretends to like Superman. Same with a lot of other Pak fans it seems.

@lvenger: I thought Pak's original 25-29 were great and some of the best Superman stories I've ever read, he's currently good, but not the same as when he started.

That at being said, I am enjoying his run. He's written the best n52 Superman to date. I am excited to see where Gene takes his Superman though, but I wish Romita was off the book and replaced with someone else.

I'lol give Gene the benefit if the doubt, since he seems rather excited for Superman.

I don't like that artist art at all. He is the same artist who did larfleez book IIRC looked awful.

@saint_wildcard: Lols, I love Jake.

Without a doubt, Romita's art cost Johns more sales than it brought in. I know plenty, I mean at least 30 people, who said no to Geoff's Superman just because of Romita.

And why would you wanna discuss things with me? It's obvious we like different things anyway.

You hate Earth One, I enjoy it

You love ASS, I thought was a good story but it wasn't for me.

You hate MoS, it's my 2nd favorite CBM.

You have love the no kill rule, I believe in shades of grey

Drop the superior Superman fan act, and maybe we'll have a discussion. Believe or not I don't wanna keep going at it with you, but every time you belittle people for liking something I remember why I do.

Sounds like you don't like Superman tbh

Have you tried reading Invincible, or irredeemable?

@silent_bomber: You're wrong. Superman, specifically the PC version, has killed on a number of occasion where he thought the threat was too severe to let go.

Personally, I think they both like Superman, just different writers takes.

and Batman has remorselessly killed hoards of people, that doesn't make it a consistent character trait.

I seem to remember Superman leaving Earth and going soul searching in space after some of those murders, he didn't take it lightly at all, and he gave up being Superman entirely out of utter shame in "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow"

@silent_bomber: I dont think he's arguing for Superman to be a person who kills with no regards, he's saying that he doesn't mind when Superman kills if the reason is good enough.

@saint_wildcard said:

This reminds me of something Max Landis said.

He said, Superman is like an adult walking amongst children, he knows human know no better & he is responsible for them. Which is why he will never take a single one of their lives. But when someone like Zod comes along, he is not responsible for him, for he is another adult. Meaning that he can take his life. Same with Doomsday, tho he is more of a mindless killing beast.

@superguy1591:

Without a doubt, Romita's art cost Johns more sales than it brought in. I know plenty, I mean at least 30 people, who said no to Geoff's Superman just because of Romita.

Anecdotal evidence is just that: Anecdotal. Like his style or not, Romita's a legend and him being on Superman is a big deal, and he certainly hasn't done sales any harm.

I dont think he's arguing for Superman to be a person who kills with no regards, he's saying that he doesn't mind when Superman kills if the reason is good enough.

Well articulated. But this will always fly over the heads of no-kill fundamentalists, because that's what they are about that particular rule.

@lvenger: Whatever works for you brah.

@2cool4fun:

Max was pretty much saying that Superman should be fine to kill any villain that is as strong as he is.

The thing is, Superman doesn't view himself as an adult among children. At least, not that way. Despite being physically stronger than any human, he doesn't think he's above them. He believes that his physical power doesn't really give him any athority over any other sentient being. Something even great writers, like Snyder and Landis, don't seem to understand.

Completely agree with you. I am surpriced how people miss that.

Thats the worst excuse for Superman killing ever.

JRJR has done only one job for DC...that is Superman. I wonder for who you mistake him?

@self-dceit: True.

But that doesn't excuse the fact that his character look hideous.

He IS a good comic book artist, just don't except people to find his art in any of their top five.

I can only handle one of your kind a day

Yeah, I agree.

I kinda have to agree with Superguy. I heard plenty of people saying they won't buy Supes because of JRJR while I never have heard the opposite.

Plus from the 28 people who vote on the poll, 18%(!) meaning 5 of them don't buy the title because of him and 0 % buy it for him. So thats another proof.

I buy the comic for the story not the Art.

I wouldn't presume to expect anything of the sort. Like I said, Romita's art isn't really up my alley, either. But this nonsense of him being a terrible artist or that a five year-old could draw better than him had to be called out for what it is: Nonsense.

Let's be reasonable, though. That's still just anecdotal evidence and a borderline irrelevant sampling in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah but considering they are plenty of viners here and all of them have similar experiences when it comes to JRJR and Superman's sales. Of course those don't clarify as hard evidence but still you can't deny that so many coincidences are at least suspicious.

Personally I don't care, I think JRJR can be great when he has time to be precise.

I think that is a bit of an exaggeration considering you are reading comics.

I value them both. I may even give a slight advantage to the art because in my experiences I have seen plenty of people that think they value story more but I have seen those people glorify crappy stories because of the nice art and disliking good stories because the art wasn't as good.

To sum up, I think everyone looks at the art first, even sub-consiously, after all comics IS a visual medium.

@self-dceit: I never actually posited my personal observation as fact, but you're right: this is nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

While I am aware of his bloodline significance, most people I've talked to about him have all made the same comment: he was good at Spider-Man, but his art hasn't been up to scale in years.

I'm not mad at DC for trying to get free promotion to the Supermsn book, but Romita didn't produce the quality needed to sustain the hype.

@self-dceit: I agree with that.

Romita Jr. must've produced excellent work in the past because based on the kind of quality he's delivering now, I can't possibly imagine how he became a comic book legend. How good an artist can he be when his customers are appalled and anxious to see the back of him. Mr.Romita is not a misunderstood genius, his angles are hardly unique and whatever storytelling skill he may possess is buried underneath the blinding ugliness of those panels. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether a chef can cook a duck breast sous-vide and use a dozen more complicated techniques if the restaurant's clients rather eat a plateful of sh*t.

@squalleon: His artwork is terrible no doubt about that. I agreed with you on that some artwork make you appreciate the work done.

@self-dceit: Try anecdotal evidence from several forums, online communities and twitter accounts plus more. There's a lot of people who are just not fans of Romita Jr's style. It may not be more than a blip in JRJR's hallmark but it'll still be a noticeable blip all the same.

It's good to see you on here though DM and I know you love Pak's Action Comics. I might be giving it a second chance too based on Pak's previous good work but I have yet to fully dig what he's doing to Superman. Still, he must be doing something right.

I actually like JRJr's art...

@saint_wildcard@squalleon: Maybe, but to be fair, he is not responsible for Zod or Doomsday. I'm not saying he should kill everyone, and i don't want him. Heck I don't even want him to end Zod's life. But the thing is, if he can't imprison Zod, he has all the right to take his life away.

Or like in Man of still, he should have just ended it when he had the chance instead of crashing through all those building possibly letting many people die because he let another guy walk around as he pleased. There shouldn't have been so much holding back in that last fight.

@jogga: I know he doesn't view himself that way, he is more human than any other super hero, he pretty much had the most average life out of all the heroes in DC. And he is in his mind just an average guy who has powers. It's just that those Powers make him seem like an adult walking amongst children.

I get what you guys are saying, but if we base any assertion on the internet - be it Comicvine, twitter or assorted online communities - we'd quickly come to the conclusion that everything sucks and everything is terrible. The internet is negative, period. And what's more, the internet and its online communities are nothing but a speck of a sample, an indicator at best. Again, this is not to say that there aren't people who don't like Romita's art. I don't much care for it myself. But the man is objectively a good comic book artist, and his being on the book is not only a marquee signing, but the farthest thing from this cancer that has driven out readers in droves, as some here would have you believe.

I won't argue against that (other than his art not being up to scale, but that's far too subjective to discuss, really). I'm also not among those who'd have Romita as a first pick for Superman.

You're making the same mistake as others before you, trying to pass off some insular verdicts from the Internet as a monolithic argumentum ad populum of sorts. Also, from what I've seen, you're an aspiring artist. You'd do well to learn from your betters instead of trying to be wacky and zany about your crass estimation of their talent.